The Soccer Thread (Newcastle takeover. For real, this time.)

@shindig: i saw you payed back Wolverhampton yesterday with a 2-0 in your favour this time

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/37483344

Well, that didn't last long.

Just getting home to this. Its amazing. The first time somebody approaches him as an England manager with a lot of time and money on his hands, he spills the beans. You wouldn't catch Harry Redknapp doing that. He got through the Stevens report no bother.

Sam Allardyce: said that he had placed the matter in the hands of his lawyers.^[9] He also confessed: “As a father it is painful to watch your son talk tall and exaggerate his influence for financial gain.”^[10] On 25 September he announced that after lengthy discussions his lawyers had advised that "I have a very strong case in relation to the programme, and I am planning to sue the BBC over the false and highly damaging allegations. I have therefore instructed my lawyers to prepare my case against the BBC."Allardyce added that he would discuss the matter with Bolton chairman, Phil Gartside, as well as his wife before he took any final decision.^[11] Allardyce has not yet filed any legal action against the BBC, meaning the allegations remain legally unchallenged

So, yeah. Breach of conduct. That's your lot. All hail Gareth Southgate.

Football/soccer seems to be full of this stuff. There's just too much money in it at the higher levels.

Too much money and too many interested parties. Gone are the days of Brian Clough driving to your house for a dri ... erm... chat about playing for Forest. Apparently some rag's going to 'name' 8 Premier League managers who have taken bungs.

Dunno whether to laugh or cry at this. What a fool that Allardyce is.

I just saw the video of the sting and all I can say is what an idiot. Seriously. I know there's some confirmation bias going on because I know what's going down when I start the video, but really, how much of a pillock does Allardyce need to be to not see what's going on?

Yeah, let's just talk about a totally illegal thing in the middle of a crowded bar with guys who represent a mysterious "Far East" company that clearly must totally not be fake because it's in the "Far East." And to top it off, it's not even a particularly good sting. The reporters involved asking such leading questions about the very basics of how the process works that they're all but holding a sign that says "Hi. I work for the Times and I'm wearing a wire!"

You know who might be a bigger idiot? Allardyce's agent. He's sitting right next to his client the whole time and not once does he seem to think "you know what, maybe I don't want my client discussing this totally illegal thing with people we've never met and haven't vetted yet." Is he just completely ignorant that this isn't legal, or is he crooked and in on the whole thing himself? And if you're legit, shouldn't you be smart enough to realize that this isn't something your client should be discussing and, I don't know, at least attempt to save your client from his own big mouth? And if you're bent, shouldn't you be smart enough to realize this isn't something you want your client to be discussing directly with other people?

omg I love Nagbe, motherfucker decided to just put a free kick in the top corner and win the game for Portland, our first road win of the year (it's sad actually)

Also I really hope Adi doesn't leave.

Bob Bradley/aka Dr. Evil has been named manager of Swansea.

I have to admit, I've got kind of mixed feelings about it. I was among those clamoring for him to be fired from the US National Team, but I also respect the hell out of what he's done since then. Plus, it's sorta a big step for US Soccer. We've had players in the Premier League before but have never had a coach make the Show.

On the other hand, I'm not sure he's right for that job. He's always been more of a developmental guy than someone who's going to chase titles. He's kind of the Bill O'Brien of soccer. He'll take a bad team and make them consistently 9-7, maybe 10-6, occasionally winning a division title and taking them to the playoffs along the way- but he's never really in the running for a Super Bowl. Personally, I think he'd be a better fit for a Championship team trying to win promotion. Then again, he's already comparing himself to Pochettino and Klopp, so he doesn't lack for confidence.

The early rumblings I've read suggest the fanbase isn't that happy with the move and there's a lot of grumbling about The Bloody Yanks(TM) in charge of the club not respecting tradition or what not.

I'm not sure anyone right for that job. Swansea have had their bubble. There's something of a curse going on with their former managers. Laudrup's wandered off to Qatar, Gary Monk's probably five minutes away from being sacked from Leeds and Brendan Rodgers is Brendan Rodgers.

Comments on the Guardian probably aren't the best place for a balanced opinion of Americans, but there's a fair bit of grump here.

Frankly, I don't see much up side for Bradley. Through no fault of his own it will be a herculean struggle just to avoid relegation, and simply gaining the respect of the players and media will be a challenge. I guess he wants his shot at the PL before it's too late. Good luck to him.

I had a dream last night where I was playing up front against Malta. Poorly. Southgate subbed me at half-time when we were 2-0 down.

@shindig: Wayne Rooney, is that you?

I passed to him at one point. He cleared it from the opposition's goal-line. I was livid. It was one of those lucid dreams where you can't really put any power behind anything you do so you just look like a weak child.

Guidolin fired on his birthday...not very "classy" :(

I wonder what Le Havre's supporters are thinking

@shindig: I mean. Apart from Monk, the other two did okay. Laudrup screwed himself and Rodgers has, arguably, gotten bigger jobs.

Aye, I'll cut Rodgers some slack. Runner up with Liverpool and a Celtic job you can't really fail at. I think I just assume he's worse because of the nonsense he spouts on camera.

I usually think football's on a slowdown during international breaks. How wrong could I be!?

Police chasing an ambulance because Enner Valencia (inside the ambulance) owes £17,000 in child support.

For those who care, the MLS Playoffs are happening in about a month from now and the tables are getting settled. Incredibly, I gave DC United up for dead, but then they kept having late-game comebacks and won 3 straight matches and thrust themselves back in the picture.

Meanwhile, the US and Canadian teams won their respective friendlies tonight. That was cool.

@dochaus: I am surprised Seattle made the playoffs as they were pretty much last when I had a look at the division not long ago. Hope it's their time this season.

@johnlocke: technically they haven't clinched yet, but it's looking good for the Sounders so long as they can hold their own in the last few season games. They have a relatively easy matchup tonight against Houston, but then they'll have to fight off Dallas and RSL while hoping the Sporks and Portland don't suddenly surge past them.

@dochaus: Ah ok, on that page you linked it showed Sounders had a match, so I just assumed they had got into the play offs. Are we still in regular season then? I have a liking for Sounders (due to liking Seattle and the Seahawks so I guess that made Sounders my MLS team of choice, although a soft spot for FC Toronto is there as well). There is some negativity about the squad on their Facebook page (i.e. the whole "Sigi out" was in full force till it happened) but they always seem to be a well run club with average attendances higher than quite a lot of the Premiership teams in England which is impressive, especially with the whole "MLS has no fans" the UK thinks goes on with American football (or soccer, whichever you want to call it, I am down for both personally).

Wayne Rooney touched the ball 142 times in today's game against Malta. None of which were in the penalty box. Our record goalscorer. In other news, I've just flooded my kitchen.

City dropping points again. It's Arsene's year til about February when it'll fall apart. Dwight Gayle continues to tear the Championship a new one. Sunderland remain adrift at the bottom of the Premiership. A question must be asked:

How long til they reappoint Sam Allardyce?

@shindig said:

As soon as they find an investor to cover part of his sala. . . oh, wait.

Also, Swansea lost in a game that wasn't as close as the scoreline indicated. Players seem to like Bradley though. That said, I'm not entirely convinced that this was the right time to make that move. It's not like the last coach had been given a lot of time to right the ship, and it's not like Bradley was going anywhere if you wanted to make the move later in the season. Plus, the way things went down made it way harder on Bradley than it needed to be given that (1) you fired the prior coach on his birthday which is bad optics if nothing else, (2) didn't involve the fan supporters club people who are now pissed, (3) and made it so that 6 of Bradley's first 10 games are against teams currently in the top 10 of the standings.

What fucking genius decided to run the remaining MLS season and several playoff matches on the same days as NFL games? Do they realize that no one outside of idiots like me is going to watch?

HI FELLOW IDIOT

im going to watch my garbage team win against Colorado and pretend to keep hope alive while everyone else wins and I watch Seattle/LA win MLS cup because of course they will.

(I want Dallas to win the cup if Portland can't personally)

I'm intrigued by this story about Watford's owner getting the club slightly off the back of forged documents.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37759489

@shindig: weird, that is something i would expect from someone who would try a scam and then run away, not from the Pozzo family which owns two clubs (three until last february, when they sold Granada FC to a chinese group). For what is worth, in the 30 years they owned Udinese they never had any financial issue so it's strange to see they would need to forge documents to guarantee they were financially covered to become sole proprietors of Watford, but eh, if they did they should pay a really big fine

Klinsmann's done, then. Bradley's Swansea is languishing in the bottom of the Premier League after Sunderland strung two wins together AND the weather's causing the power line outside to spark up something fierce.

Also, Newcastle are still bossing it. Dwight Gayle scoring twice again. He got his teeth knocked out at the weekend for bragging about his wage packet in the Bigg Market or something. Footballers, eh? I'm guessing at some point England will announce Gareth Southgate in permanent charge, too. It's all destined to end in a weak penalty shootout.

How much interest is there in the MLS playoffs in this group? I'm curious if most of the American fans have tuned port considering it is an all Canadian East final.

@thunderkat1: I am hoping the Sounders can do it.

I clicked into this thread because the title made no sense to me. I leave even more confused...

@thatbendorf: When people talk about the US squad, they talk about the United States Male National Team or (USMNT) since their female team is playing at a high level as well. The abbreviation is fairly similar to TMNT. (Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles)

@thunderkat1: my team completely shit the bed and then rolled in it in their play-in match at home against Les Impact du Montreal, so I'm done for the year.

re: Klinsmann, yeah I think he hit his peak already, and someone's head had to roll after a couple of pathetic losses in the WC qualifiers. Just add Michael Bradley's head to the mix and we'll be...well, not good, but at least in slightly better position than before.

In some ways it's a shame. Klinsmann was actually pretty good at discovering new talent, and correctly diagnosed a lot of what was wrong with player development in this country. Unfortunately, he too often confused "competition" and "challenge" with "let's play in formations we never practice while never using the same starting 11 two games in a row." Kinda ironic really. Bradley was done in because he always used the exact same guys every single game and left the cupboard bare, while Klinsmann re-stocked the cupboard but never put the fine china out when it mattered.

Unfortunately, unless Sunil Gulati goes with Klinsmann, I don't see the US position measurably improving. US Soccer needs much bolder leadership than that man is capable of providing. I guarantee you we will go with the safest possible pick for the next coach rather than looking around for the best option. Bruce Arena retread, here we come!

And also John Brooks. And Timmy Chandler. And Omar Gonzalez. Really just the entire back line. I don't care what their potential is. Defense is a low ceiling, high-floor position. It's like playing center in American football. You don't need to do a lot of things, but you do need to snap the ball right. 100% of the time. And no one on that US defense can do the basic things right 100% of the time. Yes, they can string together a few really good games on occasions. But then they have games like these last two, and don't do the things a decent high school team should be capable of. Too many mental lapses on fundamental plays.

I was struggling to think of American replacements. How silly of me to forget Bruce Arena. Also, Borussia Dortmund made history tonight by being part of an 8-4 farce. State of your defences, lads. Leicester win their group. Keep the train rolling.

What a fucking embarassment of an Europa League "season" Inter played. Even with every possible extenuating circumstance this is difficult to justify.

@cagliostro88: It seems there is that awkward balance of new players and old players at Inter and getting them to get takes time. Also, sacking the managers frequently wont help (I think you are on your third this year after Mancini and De Boer?)

I hope Inter can get it together as it would be cool to see the Serie A pull back to being one of the top leagues again (so up there with La Liga, Bundesliga, The Premiership, and so forth) as it was really good when players like Davids, Del Piero, Shevchenko, Nesta, Canavarro, et al were at the top of their form. I guess this also needs AC Milan and others to pick it up a bit as well as it seems Juve will walk away with Serie A again (to be fair, they probably have the best squad in the league, but I was hoping the signings Inter had made would help them move forwards).

@johnlocke: Unfortunately it's not that, the new players are performing in line with the rest of the team (even tho the same problems i've highlighted months ago of lacking a proper fullback and a playmaker are still there). Almost every Inter supporter was against sacking De Boer not because they liked how he made the team play, but because the problem was not with the coach. The issue there lies with the management, which is quite chaotic and appears in the midst of an internal power struggle. And sacking the coach after 2 months and hiring him the 9th of August (with a three years contract btw) it's a consequence of that. But the real problem, and why i can't even go into the tactical side of things, is that this team needs first and foremost to be recovered psychologically. Yesterday game is a perfect example: first half they were calm and were in complete control of it, and the difference of quality (no offense to Hapoel) was quite apparent, then as soon as the other team scored they went in a shock state and completely disunited. They don't seem to know how to deal with it (and words from Icardi said just as much) on a mental level, and at the first sign of difficulties they crash completely. Pioli has a lot of work to do on their heads, let's just hope they give him time to do that...

The question with Juve is just how much in advance they will win the Serie A, the are on a different level from the rest of the league right now, but that was known even before this season started.

Part of me wonders just how the other clubs bridge the gap. There's new owners involved but the draw of Serie A isn't there any more. The money's got to be a factor but I also wonder just where Italian talent comes from these days.

Darlington Nagbe's (probably) going to Celtic and I can't wait to replace him with some dude from Argentina

I'm really sad :(

@shindig: likely from clubs who don't have the big money. Which is the majority of Serie A given how the TV deals work there. Also, I know this is not true for all, but the really good players will rise to the challenge of going head to head against first team players. Look at the AC Milan goal keeper for example. Too early to say for him but he he is getting game time.

@johnlocke: @shindig: I frankly see no way of closing the gap in the short term. Long term solutions are possible but i don't know if there are people at the decisional level who are capable enough; i certainly hope so. Money it's absolutely the prime factor; here is a breakdown of last year payments from TV

For small clubs revenues are basically all there. They don't make that much money neither from the stadium audience nor from merchandising or sponsorships. For the big clubs, the ones who could boost their revenues to go toe-to-toe with Juventus, the problem comes from everything else. Look at this.You see that Juventus made 120mln more than the second italian one (Milan), and 200mlns more than Napoli who was supposed to be one of their adversaries for the title. Now who can really compete with that difference of resources? Especially if Juve spends wisely, for example with the Bayern-like moves like signing Higuain and Pjanic taking them away from their competitors, or locking down many prospects. Now there can be a year of renewal for Juve where they maybe lose the league to someone else while they change a few key players (likely when their defensive line will be too old), but either other clubs increase their revenues to a similar level or it will be extremely difficult to see a change from the black-and-white continued dominance.

(By the way, look at how many english clubs are in that list, and that should be even before the last EPL big TV deal since i don't think two seasons ago it was already in place. The difference from the rest of Europe is astounding)

For new talents i've written extensively in the past here about the problems (like old league who doesn't give much of game time to young prospects) and in this time where there are not that many promising ones it's very difficult to get them if they don't come directly from your own youth system (like Donnarumma for Milan). Right now the majority is owned or locked down by Juve or Roma and then sent on loan to smaller Serie A and Serie B clubs, like Empoli or Genoa or especially Sassuolo. Sassuolo got like half of their team through those two clubs, and the consequence is that they don't sell to others if Juventus says so. For example last summer Inter chased Berardi but Marotta, Juventus' director, came out publicly and said he was promised to Juve (he called it a "moral pre-emptive right") for the future so no deal happened. Plus even if you manage to get the few promising ones outside this thing, you still have to hope that they don't shine so bright that they may catch the attention of foreign richer clubs (see like Verratti to PSG) and give them enough time to have them grow and have enough money for a contract rich enough to keep them happy in a competitive club...it's a very difficult process and, more than anything, a long one.

That's depressing. Serie A needs it's prestige and brand factor back. The foundation of the Premier League was all about rebranding football in that country. British players going to Italy felt like a big thing. Now we get big names coming to Britain to warm the bench for Swansea. It's kinda annoying because, behind Juventus, there's a competitive league. When they had the match-fixing ban, there was a chance for the others to strengthen (kinda like how Rangers are scrapping with Aberdeen in Scotland - not that this will last once the former get their Old Firm money rolling) but it just hasn't happened. Just imagine how out of sight Juve would've been if that ban never happened.

And if any Italian side makes a dent in Europe, it'll be Juve. Even then, they'll be seen as underdogs.

Okay, so the reaction to the tragic events in Columbia has been swift. For those that don't know, Brazilian side Chapocoense were heading towards the biggest match of their club's history to face Atletico Nacional in the Copa Sudamerica Final.

Seven years ago they were in the 4th tier of Brazilian football. On Monday a plane carrying the playing staff, board and backroom staff crashed. Only three players are known to have survived. Generosity's come in from fellow Brazilian teams, giants like Paris Saint Germain and COMMEBOL (The governing body of South American football) have been urged by Atletico Nacional to award Chapocoense the Copa Sudamerica.

My respects to all those who lost their lives in this terrible event, also to the families, friends, and co-workers of all involved. Also thoughts are with those in hospital and may they be able to get some sort of life again when they leave the hospital.

Terrible. Hopefully the club itself can find a way to rebuild, although that sounds beyond complicated with so many people tragically missing from the organisation.

What a terrible tragedy :(