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#101 Posted by fisk0 (6768 posts) -

Yup, enjoyed this week's episode too. A little weirded out by how they created a solution for the propulsion problem, at least in the short term, which you'd think Starfleet could keep working on and make very much functional in the next century. They seem to be making it harder and harder for themselves to make this all work out within the established canon as they apparently say they will. They kinda seem to have the same problem as all Star Wars side stories, where everything has to still revolve around the established characters/archetypes and stories from the original series. All this Spock/Sarek and Mudd stuff just feels a bit lazy and overly convenient. Wish they'd stick to more subtle stuff like the small Archer homage in this episode.

Still, the last three episodes have all been heading in the right direction to me, so I'm still very much looking forward to seeing the rest of this series.

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#102 Posted by MonkeyKing1969 (7279 posts) -

@fisk0: Yeah I smiled that the Archer reference as well. Enterprise was a rough show, but there were parts of the 2nd to 4th seasons I loved.

Spoiler Heavy Assumption Follows
No, really this could be a spoiler, so don't peek unless you want to hear what I think. I think the Mycelium network will be destroyed at some point making the drive useless. The writers have a road map of where the show and character will go, from what they say this show is scripted very heavily on a timeline. I can easily see either the Federation or more likely the Klingons poisoning or killing the Mycelium network. That why the other ships in the future don't have the drive, the very fact it is a huge network must make it vulnerable. This event could even occur at the end of season one, or when the Voq and L'Rell storyline ends.

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#103 Edited by deactivated-5ba16609964d9 (3361 posts) -

Shame this show is on CBS All Access so I'll never watch it.

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#104 Posted by NTM (11381 posts) -

@gundamguru: Your post is a couple of weeks old now, but just wanted to say, I have been watching The Orville, and I'm surprised because it's pretty good. It's just kind of weird though because I expected the show to be more humorous, but it actually deals with decent stories with morals to them similar to Trek. It also makes me curious as to how I am supposed to react to the show (like, am I supposed to care for the characters as it seems to be trying to make me do, and kind of works?) and what Seth MacFarlane's intentions are with it. It seems more like he's trying to do a Star Trek of his own as he likes Star Trek himself, rather than just make some spoof off of it for humor sake. The stories in The Orville are not unique by any means, but they're fun to watch. The humor more or less isn't strong, but it makes me chuckle from time to time. I am not trying to keep up with the show like I would a Star Trek, but I'll watch them if they're on and I have nothing else to do, or I might watch it on Demand later. Plus, I'm not subscribing to CBS All Access, so I'll take The Orville.

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#105 Edited by GundamGuru (786 posts) -

@ntm: I'm a week behind on Discovery at the moment. The show is just so damn awkward to me, it's like watching a high school production of Star Trek, and it's really bumming me out because I so desperately want to like the show. It's the first new TV Trek in a decade. (Cpt Lorca is such an edgelord) Hopefully I'll get a chance to catch up this week.

As for the Orville, it's interesting to hear your opinion. I've not gotten to watch that either (real life, eh), but I'm starting to get the impression it's Seth's Star Trek protest show (made to offer a different take than Discovery). And that's why the critics are hating on it. From what I keep hearing from coworkers, it's never exactly what people were expecting of it. I'm definitely giving it a chance when I get some time.

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#106 Posted by MonkeyKing1969 (7279 posts) -

Season 1, Ep 6 - Lethe

Okay, it was not as strong as last weeks episode, but truthful the saving grace for me - what allows me to not mind the flaws - is that the show is allowing itself to be less dark.

That was my #1 issue with the start of the series and they fact they are dialing that back is making me hopeful. Moreover, they finally made at least one tiny step to Burnham (Sonequa Martin-Green) being less of a cold fish. I actually like the end of the episode where she reintroduced herself to Ash (Shazad Latif). In addition I liked that a thread of the last episode was hinted at in this ep with the Engineer Stamets being a bit too manic - different. I liked that for a second week my new favorite character, Dr. Hugh Culber (Wilson Cruz) was being personable and ironic. And, I think they have made Captain Lorca more understandable, while making his sanity seems like it is on the razors end of fracture. Lorica manipulating an old lover, who was his superior, and then purposefully hang her out to dry is scary. Yet that story element is good drama too. He knew the diplomatic mission was dangerous; hell was counted on that mission failing in some way. "In Bird culture this is considered a dick move", as Bird Person would say.

...I am enjoying that all Captain Lorca's moves are dick moves.

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#107 Posted by devise22 (701 posts) -

I really liked this weeks episode. One of the things after the pilot that the show really started to do was go down a direction that gave it it's own identity. For as much as I think a lot of people want "TNG like Star Trek" I also think so many also want something to exist in the Star Trek universe and not just be a re-tread. Most of the "Trek" elements of this show are words, dialogue, set pieces, things. But tonally it has always felt like it's own thing and I feel like this past weeks episode really took a deep dive further than that.

@monkeyking1969 You highlighted I think the shows strongest aspect. The Captain is a darker character, and there is a lot of drama surrounding that I do feel like that is the shows anchor. But it obviously isn't just without reason. The fact that it's war time, and we are finally getting to see the real type of war decisions that come with this territory and it's effect on how people are I think is what is this shows main strength. The majority of the characters are being dragged through the mud, due to consequences and it allows for far more character growth.

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#108 Posted by NTM (11381 posts) -

I'm actually surprised some people signed up for CBS All Access to watch it (or are you not in the U.S. and are watching it on Netflix?) Jeez, it not being on Netflix in the U.S. is ludicrous.

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#109 Edited by Winterblink (62 posts) -

Oh man.

That ending with Lorca deferring his decision to Starfleet was damn harsh -- he had to know they'd order him to hang back, when he could have just zipped there to rescue her and likely be rewarded with being removed from command by the admiral. I love this new captain, not just because he's a darker character but he's been developing in the series as a very complex character (especially by Trek standards).

Great episode.

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#110 Edited by MonkeyKing1969 (7279 posts) -

@ntm said:

I'm actually surprised some people signed up for CBS All Access to watch it (or are you not in the U.S. and are watching it on Netflix?) Jeez, it not being on Netflix in the U.S. is ludicrous.

This is just my take...so JMO.

Just like with Giant Bomb, if I want to see the content I am willing to pay....at least until the service give me reason to not pay. I actually watch another show on CBS, Madam Secretary (w/) Téa Leoni, so that $6 I spend per month is fine with me. I cut the cord a long time ago and I subscribe to only Netflix in Ultra-HD, so my TV watching is costing me $18 ($12 + $6). And, because I cut the cord so long ago Netflix and CBS has a backlog of content I have not seen.

I have no problem with people who don't see the worth, not all all. But, for $6 I will watch ST:D and Madam Secretary. Hell, if Giant Bomb could give a perk of CBS All Access being part of our Gold Membership I'd go along with that! What a damn fine idea to include all the GB subscription "numbers" to bolster CBS All Access adoption numbers. LOL [A boy can dream, right?]

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#111 Posted by DarkeyeHails (541 posts) -

"How do we visually represent the emotional struggle that Sarek is going through as he is gravely wounded and expects death?"

"How about a space kung-fu fight?"

"Brilliant!"

At least Jason Isaacs is interesting.

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#112 Posted by mesklinite (898 posts) -

@ntm said:

I'm actually surprised some people signed up for CBS All Access to watch it (or are you not in the U.S. and are watching it on Netflix?) Jeez, it not being on Netflix in the U.S. is ludicrous.

This is just my take...so JMO.

Just like with Giant Bomb, if I want to see the content I am willing to pay....at least until the service give me reason to not pay. I actually watch another show on CBS, Madam Secretary (w/) Téa Leoni, so that $6 I spend per month is fine with me. I cut the cord a long time ago and I subscribe to only Netflix in Ultra-HD, so my TV watching is costing me $18 ($12 + $6). And, because I cut the cord so long ago Netflix and CBS has a backlog of content I have not seen.

I have no problem with people who don't see the worth, not all all. But, for $6 I will watch ST:D and Madam Secretary. Hell, if Giant Bomb could give a perk of CBS All Access being part of our Gold Membership I'd go along with that! What a damn fine idea to include all the GB subscription "numbers" to bolster CBS All Access adoption numbers. LOL [A boy can dream, right?]

I signed up for Cravetv in canada which has StarTrek. CBS is saying they're getting record high subscription for startrek and confirmed a second season. This is how it should work. People support a product and more gets made!

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#113 Edited by paulunga (3517 posts) -

So far I enjoy this series more than most Star Trek productions. But I'm of the opinion that pretty much everything but TNG S2-onwards and DS9 is hot garbage, so what do I know.

And I guess that's the beauty of Star Trek? Not every show has to feel the same and appeal to the same audiences.

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#114 Posted by Giantstalker (2401 posts) -

Lorca could really go either way at this point. I'm super fascinated to see where he ends up falling on, well, everything (meaning the spore drive, the Federation-Klingon War, and even Discovery's relationship with Starfleet)

I think I like this show!

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#115 Posted by NTM (11381 posts) -

@monkeyking1969: You have more of a reason to want to get it. And to be clear, just because I'm surprised that some may have gotten it for Star Trek Discovery, doesn't mean I'm calling people dumb for it.

@monkeyking1969 said:
@ntm said:

I'm actually surprised some people signed up for CBS All Access to watch it (or are you not in the U.S. and are watching it on Netflix?) Jeez, it not being on Netflix in the U.S. is ludicrous.

This is just my take...so JMO.

Just like with Giant Bomb, if I want to see the content I am willing to pay....at least until the service give me reason to not pay. I actually watch another show on CBS, Madam Secretary (w/) Téa Leoni, so that $6 I spend per month is fine with me. I cut the cord a long time ago and I subscribe to only Netflix in Ultra-HD, so my TV watching is costing me $18 ($12 + $6). And, because I cut the cord so long ago Netflix and CBS has a backlog of content I have not seen.

I have no problem with people who don't see the worth, not all all. But, for $6 I will watch ST:D and Madam Secretary. Hell, if Giant Bomb could give a perk of CBS All Access being part of our Gold Membership I'd go along with that! What a damn fine idea to include all the GB subscription "numbers" to bolster CBS All Access adoption numbers. LOL [A boy can dream, right?]

CBS is saying they're getting record high subscription for startrek

Yeah... I'm disappointed by that. Well, I hate to wish people fail, but initially, I was kind of hoping it would so CBS would rethink the way they were going about things. Oh well, maybe they'll release it some other way later. I'd like to see it, but I'm just not subscribing for one show despite really liking Star Trek.

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#116 Posted by MonkeyKing1969 (7279 posts) -

"How do we visually represent the emotional struggle that Sarek is going through as he is gravely wounded and expects death?"

"How about a space kung-fu fight?"

"Brilliant!"

At least Jason Isaacs is interesting.

THE SAREKMAN LYRICS

Sarekman (ah-ah-ah)
Fighter of the Logic Terroists (ah-ah-ah)
Champion of Spock- his son (ah-ah-ah)
He's a Master of Vulcan Karate
And Friendship
With the Fed·er·a·tion

Sarek-man (ah-ah-ah)
Fighter of the Logic Terrorists (ah-ah-ah)
Champion of Spock - his son! (ah-ah-ah)
He's a Master of Vulcan Karate
And Friendship
With the Fed·er·a·tion

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#117 Posted by DarkeyeHails (541 posts) -
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#118 Edited by chekhonte (133 posts) -

I'm surprised to say that I like this show. I was hooked when T'Kuvma declared that the Federation doesn't come in peace but to destroy their individuality. I like the idea that this Klingon views the Federation as essentially the Borge, absorbing and assimilating cultures. If the show goes down this road at all then I'm on board.

Spoilers for ep. 2.

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#119 Posted by Entropy42 (7 posts) -

CBS is saying they're getting record high subscription for startrek and confirmed a second season.

I just read that, too. I'm really glad to see that Star Trek is finally back again with a TV series :D I really loved all the Star Trek series, I even really dug the infamous season 3 of Enterprise (the one with Archer). Can't wait what they'll do with the story of Discovery...

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#120 Posted by MonkeyKing1969 (7279 posts) -

Season 1, Ep 7 - Magic To Make The Sanest Man Go Mad

It was okay. I will go into more below, but my non-spoiler take on teh episodes was it felt more like Star Trek. But, I'm not so sure that whip sawing from not feeling like Star Trek to slipping into old trops of Star Trek is the right move....but it was good. Spoilers Ahead

I like ensign Sylvia Tilly, but what about her before said, "Party girl?" In this episodes hse in not the tounge tied new ensign, but rather a smart drunbken party prowler and expert female wing-man. That makes no sense, but whatever they could have Tilly tap-dance and I'd still like the character. So after teh first ten minutes you know the writer dredged up a VERY TIRED Star Trek trope of the "time loop" episode. As soon as I saw it I said, "Really, we are already at the making of time loop episodes? Just toss the Klingon story line of Voq and L'Rell into the corner....okay.

So the idea is that all characters trapped in a short time-loop where they’ll die as long as Mudd is searching for what he want - the secrete of the Spoor drive. To be honest I was a littel confused that Mudd was being used in this way, but I figured this one part one of a longer play Mudd would have with Lorica and the Klingons. So moving on- It is revealed that only Stamets and his connection with teh ship drive fungi in immune to forgetting what occurred in the loops. So he eventually figured out that "HE" must convince his crew mates what’s happening and stop Harry Mudd. I say eventually because it is indicated that while we have seen maybe three or four loops, there have been fifty or more, if a not hundred, because Mudd brags that he killed the captain over fifty times. Stamets latches onto Burnham as a link to get something done. I supposed it can be argued, that Stamets did try a few times to thwart Mudd himself, but gave up when it just wasn't working. Burnham it can be said combines the qualities of logic, an open mind, and the drive to do something in combination with Stamets, or she has an easier time cutting through the bulls__t - so she is a logical allie to get first. and then -yadda yadda yadda- they pull of a switcharro on the bad guy. THE END

So, this my question after it was over? REALLY? They set up Mudd in a show, and they hired a good character actor to play him. They made Lorica leaving Mudd behind a pivotal moment in one of teh shows and connected Mudd directly to L'Rell (the primary Klingon duo of the show so far Voq/L'Rell). So how do they use Mudd? Well they waste him on a bottle episode where at teh end of it he is SHAMED into returning to his fiancee so that her daddy doesn't skin-him alive? That was this shows best use of this character? Yes, they can bring him back, but this just seems like put Mudd on ice for a very long time, and without much use for the elaborate set up they created for him.

The episodes was okay, but I truly think this episodes was a waste of resources on a show that will have an abbreviated season. Moreover, in the last episodes Lorica pretty much suckered an admiral he was sleeping with into getting nabbed by Klingons so he could keep his unhinged mental state a secret. So we went from high stakes episodes that links directly to through-line narrative, to this toss-off episode that seemed meaningless. Oh, well, I suppose if there is one silver lining it is the the last two episodes have been Micheal Burnham being more humans and likable.


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#121 Posted by Rorie (5225 posts) -

I am genuinely digging the show so far. I think it's unfortunate that Michael is so stiff in most episodes; there's only so far Vulcan logic can take me in terms of actually caring about what the character is going through. But it sure looks like she's going to warm up in the next few episodes.

I admit I'm pleasantly surprised by the Harry Mudd character. I'm not a huge fan of Rainn Wilson but he seems to be playing it up in a method that's just campy enough to be entertaining without being too over-the-top.

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#122 Edited by MonkeyKing1969 (7279 posts) -
No Caption Provided

@rorie: I like Rainn but mostly from some movie work, like Super (2010). Also, when he appears on late night often playing character, he was on Comedy Bang Bang in a funny bit too. I just learned he was one of the aliens in Galaxy Quest.

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#123 Edited by Marokai (3697 posts) -

The most recent episode is some Star Trek-ass Star Trek, honestly. Aside from the music choices I personally find it harder and harder to see the "This isn't Star Trek, give me back my Star Trek!" contingent's way of thinking.

I think it was the most recent AV Club review that stated it, and it's really my only serious complaint, but I hope that some sort of... central goal of sorts is introduced? Or at least something that feels like it makes episodes flow together a bit more. Perhaps it's just something that time will solve on its own, but I still get tonal whiplash from episode to episode at times - like I really don't know what the focus of the show is on, exactly. The Discovery as a setting hasn't felt very fleshed out and the show feels like it's just going from thing to thing, with the Klingon War just kind of vaguely happening in the background every once in awhile, which feels sort of weird.

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#124 Edited by MonkeyKing1969 (7279 posts) -

@marokai said:

.... The Discovery as a setting hasn't felt very fleshed out and the show feels like it's just going from thing to thing, with the Klingon War just kind of vaguely happening in the background every once in awhile, which feels sort of weird.

The big issues i just was thinking about today, is the so-called war with the Klingons has mostly happened off screen. We have seen two small Klingon vessels shooting at a mining town and Discovery getting rid of them. But a war? Have we seen the war or its cost? Hell, we are told Federation officers are angry at Michael for starting a costly war; but how do we feel that without seeing the cost of this war.

I think Ep 4 or ep 5 should to be about showing the war. That was the moment to do it, now it will be much harder to show it with any impact.

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#125 Posted by BoOzak (2401 posts) -

@marokai: Going from thing to thing is kind of what Star Trek has always been about, I know that doesnt work too well these days unless you're CSI, Law & Order, NCIS etc.

No Caption Provided

@rorie: I like Rainn but mostly from some movie work, like Super (2010). Also, when he appears on late night often playing character, he was on Comedy Bang Bang in a funny bit too. I just learned he was one of the aliens in Galaxy Quest.

I got some real Q vibes from him in the latest episode, maybe it was the godlike dickishness that he tends to display, I dont know. The show could do with some more out there characters. I like most of the cast but they're quite dry. (especially Michael's love interest, whatever his name is)

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#126 Posted by Giantstalker (2401 posts) -

Well, I liked the last episode but I am starting to feel that they're not really developing the central plot fast enough. Also,

what's to stop Mudd from just selling what he already knows to the Klingons anyway? The ending made me really question how the situation was "resolved."

It's still a massive, massive security breach!

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#127 Posted by Metal_Mills (3523 posts) -

Well, I liked the last episode but I am starting to feel that they're not really developing the central plot fast enough. Also,

what's to stop Mudd from just selling what he already knows to the Klingons anyway? The ending made me really question how the situation was "resolved."

It's still a massive, massive security breach!

The ending had a very TOS vibe to it.

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#128 Posted by MonkeyKing1969 (7279 posts) -

I was just thinking today that I would mention that from the first tiem they described Lt. Saru on the show I was thinking, "Oh, this species is a sprinkling of Larry Niven's Pierson's Puppeteer."

So last week's episode where Saru turns around to give a mighty 'bovine' kick, I said "Yup...fill in that spot on the Pierson's Puppeteer BINGO card."


No Caption Provided
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#129 Edited by MonkeyKing1969 (7279 posts) -

Season. 1, Ep. 9 (mid-season finale)

Into the Forest I Go

Well they did pack a lot of information that ties up ideas. [Spoilers follow]

Is there a episode where any Vulcan, aside from main cast, every wins and argument with a human? Admiral Terral (the Vulcan one) must be rip-shit, because Lorica does not even try to do a good job of saying lying to him. Hell, the director told the actor,"oh yeah, character knows Lorica is lying, and your character knows Lorica will get no punishment....so play it like that." While I don't think that is logical or good story-telling, I think that is what we get from these writers. In the Federation the only "glory boys"who get medals NEVER take an order. This half-season ends with Lorica in hot water, with Admiral Cornhole Comstock back in Federation hands and with Admiral Terral about as mad as a Vulcan can get --- I'm guessing the opening of next season is Lorica strapped to a bed in a psych ward.

I will say this just because it has to be said -- The PTSD/torture/rape that Lt Tyler experiences is horrific and would be a timely story. However, the end of teh episode tells us that there was more going on that what Lt Tyler remembers. So, as much as I hate to say it, the writers are going to take that plot point away because Ash Tyler will going to either BE Voq (albino Klingon) or have Voq's mind in his own head.) So, yes, Lt. Ash Tyler got tortured, but all that sex was between L'Rell and Voq - maybe. Or, that is my interpretation, and i'd be surprised if it isn't. So while all the media pundits at BuzzFeed or The Verge are saying "Oh, wow, a story about male molestation/rape", that is likely not where the writers will go with this. It will be just a sad torture story and a mind-swap story.

Is the damn war over really? A war the last eight episodes? Really...even TNG- DS9 had their war last 30 shows!!! So is one swoop the Discovery destroys the Klingon leader who was pushing teh war forward. Discovery destroy the main ship with the cloak; purhaps, the most advance implantation of the cloak. The burn out Chief Engineer/Theorist Paul Stamets and pretty much hit this could be the END of using the spore drive. In doing so they freak Tilly...the poor dear. Moreover, they actually have Cmd Saru and Michael Burnham make ups....who knows WHY they just did it. So, the first two shows of the season were not even about Discovery. Then on ep 3 they start the show, then one bottle episode about Mudd , and then this last ep solves 70% of the plot points with just six episodes?! Jesus, who is writing narrative's story arc? A Kindergarten teacher trying to make a story for ADHD students?

Listen, I like the show, but it seems like they tried to ties up too many lose ends with ep 9. Maybe it was too early to claim victory, but the crew DOES that. Maybe, the Mycelium drive will get phased out in the show...it will have to....but did they have to hit at that so soon? Without a war what are Voq and L'Rell going to do what? If Voq is in Lt Tylers mind that is interesting...but it sure seems like L'Rell and Voq have a big bunch of "no purpose" for the show now.

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#130 Posted by Marokai (3697 posts) -

@monkeyking1969:I totally agree that this show, while I do really like it for the most part, fucking blows through major plot points like nobody's business. It can be downright disorienting sometimes how major events just seem to start and stop. If that's the end of the war arc I am utterly baffled. My only presumption at this point is that Discovery was flinged into the Mirror Universe (after all that talk about traveling to parallel universes on the Mycelium network) or something, because if it's just "wow now we're really far away" I'm not sure where the show goes from this point.

It can be super weird. I feel like the show doesn't really know what to focus on from episode to episode.

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#131 Posted by GundamGuru (786 posts) -

@marokai: @monkeyking1969: For what it's worth guys (and I'm not current on the show), Discovery went through a decent amount of development hell. According to the Wikipedia, they fired showrunner Bryan Fuller midway through season 1 and had different writers episode to episode (using Fuller's story outline). It sounds a bit like the drama with Rogue One in that regard; the network didn't know what they really wanted from the show.

Hopefully Thanksgiving will give me some time to catch up on my shows (and maybe dodge some family members along the way). But at this point I'm super interested to see what Season 2 ends up being like, since CBS confirmed ordering it.

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#132 Posted by Humanity (18057 posts) -

@marokai: I'm all for this show turning into Voyager 2.0

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#133 Posted by MonkeyKing1969 (7279 posts) -

@marokai: @monkeyking1969: For what it's worth guys (and I'm not current on the show), Discovery went through a decent amount of development hell. According to the Wikipedia, they fired showrunner Bryan Fuller midway through season 1 and had different writers episode to episode (using Fuller's story outline). It sounds a bit like the drama with Rogue One in that regard; the network didn't know what they really wanted from the show.

Hopefully Thanksgiving will give me some time to catch up on my shows (and maybe dodge some family members along the way). But at this point I'm super interested to see what Season 2 ends up being like, since CBS confirmed ordering it.

Yeah, I'm interested in the second half of season one. In fact, the rest of the episodes in the rest of the season could be about as well done as these nine have been, and THAT would be enough to keep me watching. I just wish they would slow down to dig deep into the universe they have created. I wish more science fiction authors were willing to option their "universes" for high production shows.

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#134 Posted by MonkeyKing1969 (7279 posts) -

This past Sunday, I logged into the CBS All Acess App looking for an episode. ...then I remembered no more Star Trek until Sunday, January 7, 2018! I think that is the best indication that 'warts & all' I like the show.

I went through the metal asthmatic about unsubscribing to my CBS account for six or seven weeks and then needing to re-subscribe again. Yup, they did it folks, they just barely made a show compelling enough for me to pay even when it is not on-air. I'm part of the problem.

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#135 Posted by MonkeyKing1969 (7279 posts) -

Star Trek Discovery
Season 1 | Episode 10 - Despite Yourself (Director: Jonathan Frakes)

I'm sorry. I just feel like all the good-will that Discovery clawed back in the last six episodes of this season were tossed out the airlock on this one.

I just don't like Lt. Ash Tyler or where they are going with this character at all. The actor is a fine person I'm sure, but I just don't like this character. Moreover I don't like that he is now Voq and he is Voq due to really really intese surgery which means Voq is now Tyler for teh rest of teh series and that is no fun...way easier on the makeup department...but just a stupid move for consistent characterization of Voq.

I like Michael Burnham, but they have to GET AWAY from this she acts like a Vulcan sometimes bit. This actress is coming across like a bitch not a cold fish or a reserved person. ANy romatic screne she and Tyler have falls flat for me because I see ZERO chemistry...zero. This is not either actors fault it is just poor writing and a sticking to a poor premise that the main character needs to have this Vulcan reserve. Most Vulcan character have had a wry sense of humor or a sense of irony....that is what Michael Burnham is missing a wry sense of humor to make her seem more likeable and less of a sad sack.

There are only three character I like : Saru (First Officer/XO), Paul Stamets (Chiefengineer), Dr. Hugh Culber (Physician), and Sylvia Tilly (clumsy Cadet). And the show treats these character like trash....plot point movrs instead of people. They are going to kill all of them...I can already tell because they are overshadow the other stars...but maybe that is good some of these actors deserve better and to get on shows that might last. (abandon ship Cadet Tilly!!!)

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#136 Edited by frytup (1106 posts) -

Ten episodes in and they're already resorting to the tropiest of Star Trek tropes, the Terran Empire mirror universe.

I'd love to see more character development and less grand spectacle. Sadly, I don't think that's what Star Trek is anymore.

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#137 Posted by MonkeyKing1969 (7279 posts) -

@frytup said:

Ten episodes in and they're already resorting to the tropiest of Star Trek tropes, the Terran Empire mirror universe.

I'd love to see more character development and less grand spectacle. Sadly, I don't think that's what Star Trek is anymore.

I'm not in the camp of "this is ruined, not my Trek"; but I'm in the camp of 'this could be better story-telling no matter what the universe'. I think they are trying to be too mysterious and too "angsty", but I am willing to watch the first season in total. I just wish they were not going down this path with Voq/Tyler.

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#138 Posted by frytup (1106 posts) -

@frytup said:

Ten episodes in and they're already resorting to the tropiest of Star Trek tropes, the Terran Empire mirror universe.

I'd love to see more character development and less grand spectacle. Sadly, I don't think that's what Star Trek is anymore.

I'm not in the camp of "this is ruined, not my Trek"; but I'm in the camp of 'this could be better story-telling no matter what the universe'. I think they are trying to be too mysterious and too "angsty", but I am willing to watch the first season in total. I just wish they were not going down this path with Voq/Tyler.

Sure. I'm not taking the position that 2018 Star Trek should look like a rehash of TNG, but when you start resorting to implausible plot twists in season 1, I question whether the show runners actually knows where this is going.

Admittedly, I remain bitter about the incredible silliness of the whole "plant spores are the substrate of the universe, and also a giant tardigrade for some reason" story line.

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#140 Edited by GenericBrotagonist (395 posts) -

I've been getting the feeling over the past few episodes that this first season is the longest setup ever for Star Trek: Sliders. Going where no Star Trek has gone before: the multiverse. Now the only problem is finding a way back home.

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#141 Posted by MonkeyKing1969 (7279 posts) -

Spoliers

The last episode ep 13 at least slowed down enough to be a decent episodes story and a decent end to at least this part of the macro-story. The question I have is will they flop flpop again. They brought Mirror-Capt Lorica back to mirror universe and killed him, but where is "Federsation Universe Captain Lorica"? They killed Federation Universe Capt Georgiou, but now have brought back Emperor Georgiou from the mirror Universe. So, are they going to flip-flop captains for the rest of this series' first season?

To be honest I like "Saru" as captain. I think after first season I would like to have the ship be Captain Saru, Lt Cmd Burham as XO, Chief Engineer Stamets -, and they for the rest of the same bridge crew top get some story and screen time. And, I wish they woudl just bring back Dr. Culber for the dead....he was MY FAVORITE character on the show aside from Tilly.

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#142 Posted by GunslingerPanda (5263 posts) -

Captain Saru is best boy.

Interested in where the Mirror-Georgiou thing goes. How is she going to deal with the captain of a ship being a squid man that she was eating a few hours ago? How are the rest of the crew going to deal with her completely opposite ideals of human superiority?

I have a feeling throwing Lorca into the lifestream may have been a mistake.

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#143 Posted by MonkeyKing1969 (7279 posts) -

I just heard there are only two more episodes this part of Season One...WTF? They had a hiatus that restarted January 7 and will end February 11 with only six episodes. And even worse Season 2 does not start until 2019 by all indications? How they hell do they keep people on CBS Access with their marquee show NOT AIRING?

This is madness! Even the fans going with teh flow or new fans that are jumping on to enjoy Star Trek Disco are now being punched in the face. This is FAR too few episodes and some episodes seeming like wastes of time; but now a second season that starts 11 months from now...at best?

To do a Game of Thrones-like season you need a GoT like presentation that is rich with things happening in the background, sweeping vistas full of extras, good storytelling that is easy to follow. Game of Thrones for all its dips into what five different groups of people, are does that with tight writing. Discovery has very little of that tight to the point writing. While it is more cinematically shot than past Trek series and more expensive; it is not even 1/6 they way to Game of Thrones -like spectacle or story telling that necessitates rewatching episodes.

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#144 Posted by GenericBrotagonist (395 posts) -

To do a Game of Thrones-like season you need a GoT like presentation that is rich with things happening in the background, sweeping vistas full of extras, good storytelling that is easy to follow.

I don't think that's true. Pretty much every show at this point that's not on network tv has around a 12 episode season if not shorter. Some of them are great, but plenty of them are bad. Plenty take forever for new seasons to start as well.

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#145 Posted by BoOzak (2401 posts) -

The last episode felt very Starwarsy, not sure how I feel about that. I liked Lorca, sure he wasnt a good person but he was an interesting character, much better than the Klingon zealots as far as antagonists go. I thought the mirror universe stuff was cool but they run the risk of things feeling like they dont have any consequence if they keep flip flopping between time/universes etc. I know Trek has always done that but they generally save that stuff for later when they have to write themselves out of a hole.

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#146 Edited by fisk0 (6768 posts) -

The season finale was probably one of the weaker episodes of the show so far. I think the premise itself was sound, but it was all handled pretty heavy-handedly resolved way too quickly. Would probably have done better as a double episode.

Having the Enterprise appear at the end felt kinda cheesy, but it does open up some interesting options for next season. They talked about having a new captain join them on Vulcan, but I'd be really interested to see if they'll bring any characters from the TOS pilot era on-board, especially Number One, who probably was my favorite character in that original episode.

She was written off entirely from the show after that, despite being depicted as a very capable Starfleet officer, so having her join the Discovery crew (and for that matter recasting her), probably wouldn't be particularly controversial to the die hard Star Trek fandom.

Recasting Spock (or even Pike) would probably not be a popular decision however.

I suppose it could also be possible that T'Pol reappears, as I guess she'd be around 160 by the time of Discovery, and Vulcans apparently can get a great deal older than that.

All in all, this season has been hit and miss. But so has almost every first season of a Star Trek show, I've really enjoyed large parts of it and look forward to seeing how the show progresses, though it sounds like we'll have to wait until 2019 for that.

Edit: I've also taken the liberty of renaming the thread.

Moderator
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#147 Edited by frytup (1106 posts) -

"Hi, I'm L'Rell. If you don't make me your leader, I'm going to push this button and blow up the planet."

Ugh. That is... not good plotting.

I'm a sap for Star Trek so I'll probably give CBS their blood money next season, but, man. It really feels like a show written by high school kids.

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#148 Posted by mortonan (56 posts) -

The show's a lot of fun while you're watching it but the plot doesn't really hold up to scrutiny when you're thinking about it after the fact. And... I think I'm okay with that? Maybe I'm just desperate for new Star Trek but I enjoyed myself will happily sign up again next year (of course I canceled All Access the day after the finale). Stamets, Saru, and Tilly are great characters and I hope next year season we get more of Detmer and Airiam and Owosukun(?).

I know the first season order got increased from 13 to 15 not long before it started airing, so I wonder if the original plan was to end on the episode 13 cliffhanger and the last two episodes were tacked on, or if we would've ended at the same place but the pace would've been even more frenetic.

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#149 Edited by Rigas (737 posts) -

@mortonan said:

The show's a lot of fun while you're watching it but the plot doesn't really hold up to scrutiny when you're thinking about it after the fact. And... I think I'm okay with that? Maybe I'm just desperate for new Star Trek but I enjoyed myself will happily sign up again next year (of course I canceled All Access the day after the finale). Stamets, Saru, and Tilly are great characters and I hope next year season we get more of Detmer and Airiam and Owosukun(?).

I know the first season order got increased from 13 to 15 not long before it started airing, so I wonder if the original plan was to end on the episode 13 cliffhanger and the last two episodes were tacked on, or if we would've ended at the same place but the pace would've been even more frenetic.

I think that's how they planned, and the first two episodes were the ones tacked on. I think originally we were going to have flashbacks to the Shenzhou and Captain Michelle Yeoh, but they got two more episodes. They pulled the flashbacks, made them into those two very different from the rest of the episodes, then padded the rest to fill the time.