The True Detective Thread (probably with spoilers)

I enjoy these readings of Rust but that's just not what I see I guess. For me, there is nothing between Rust and Maggie other than jealousy on her part and animal urges on both their parts. I don't think Rust ever cared for her but then I don't think he personally cares for people at all. Just people in general. Hence the kid and the bathtub. Hence his dedication to the work.

I'm not knocking the show for trying to be profound, it's the presentation of trying to be profound, and that does include Rust's so-called contradictions. The most basic question/problem of philosophy is that it is theoretical. No one lives by philosophy, regardless of how bad you may want to, so Rust not living his mantra doesn't sound like a complex character to me, though, a real one? Maybe so. Like I said earlier I think McConaghey carries that character very far. Either way his babble really drops off over time, so it's far from my major issue with the show, which is that every one who isn't the two main characters is uninteresting and convenient. I just don't like them. Woody's latest girlfriend/excuse to have a hot girl on TV is just another eye rolling decision into mediocrity that a great show like this didn't need. Of all the ways they could portray his infidelity, the path they chose was the most generic TV of all: cue Maxim Hot Girl, cue Obvious Stupidity (derr forget to erase my 1000s of naked pictures!), cue Obvious Revenge Sex, cue men fighting. Cue 10 years later, Can I buy you a beer?

Still enjoying the show here and there but this last episode was the worst of the bunch I think. It's sold me on McConaghey as a real top notch actor and his movies never have, so that's something. Will finish it obviously and certainly that will reframe the show for me, so who knows, maybe I'll come around in the end.

@geraltitude: I'm not saying he's complex - I'm just saying that what they're aiming for is to make the character an ineffectual loner who tries really hard to have people fuck off so he's not hurt by them. Which is why he refuses to get to know Marty for three months, feeds him his bullshit nihilism, gets wasted before coming to the family dinner, is furious at Maggie for using him for revenge sex.

I mean, the show's main theme is lying, or rather that lying and presenting it as truth doesn't make it true. Marty lies that he's a family man, Rust lies that he's a cop to "bear witness", Maggie lies that she played no part in their falling out, they both lie that Ledoux died in a Hollywood gun fight, everyone tries to live the lie that the case was over with Ledoux.

Not to mention that Rust goes on his wildest tangents when he's talking with the two detectives in 2012 and we already know that he manipulated them into checking what they have on the case, going as far as drinking a six pack during the interview so it will be inadmissable.

@geraltitude: Yeah the last episode was a bit silly; I particularly liked how ridiculously over the top the new police chief was; he was literally this guy:

Apart from that they kind of killed the suspense portion of the plot; but that's not to say they couldn't revive it somehow with the future plot. Must bang T-Mobile girl! Must... bang... T-Mobile girl! On that note Jack Slater would make this show way better.

I still think Rust is solid, Marty is starting to become a caricature, and the more religious you are the more evil you are stuff is pretty bad, and here I was thinking they were handling that rather well in past episodes.

The religion thing is getting a little too on the nose. It's kind of a trope of weird fiction and detective genres to have a strange cult behind something, so if this thing ends with a evil religious cult behind all the murders, it could end up feeling overly contrived and predictable. At first I thought True Detective was simply playing with conventions, but I'm starting to think it's playing into them.

Like I said earlier though, we can't really judge anything (including Marty and Rust) until this whole thing is over. This episode was one of the more structurally important even if it wasn't the most stylistically rewarding. It was obviously moving the pieces to set up the next two episodes. I just hope it isn't changing direction.

You are all crazy. The show is great. The acting is fantastic. The story is pretty good. Its a good show.

True detective is great because each episode is basically the best episodes of a long running cop procedural. They cut down a lot of the bullshit by skipping through time and only stopping to show the really interesting stuff.

Usually, you have to wait half way through a season of a police procedural until the plot of the brutal serial killer that everyone is dying to know more about is nudged forward.

Yeah that is the part that sticks out as rather unauthentic, or maybe it's just because it feels like HBO shows often fill time with sex scenes. There's some horny motherfuckers working for that studio.

If Marty had some true power status I'd believe it a bit more, but there's nothing particularly endearing about him that makes it very believable.

I quite like the show and I think Rust is one cool character. I don't like Marty at all but that's probably intended by the show, poor Woody.

edit: I hope this show can stay fresh and not totally fall over itself like True Blood.

I really unironically like the fact that this show has the gall to have two leads that are complete assholes in opposite ways, one is an adulterer who doesn't know what he wants or what to do half the time and the other a nihilistic prick with a whisky dick. I also appreciate the fact that all the women sole purpose in the show are to develop the two male leads, usually by having sex with them.

Despite all of this, I find them completely relatable. It's just the story of two "bad" cops. I don't mean bad in the sense that they aren't able to get the job done, I mean bad in that they're assholes or dare I say villains.

Rust kicking out Maggie in the recent episode felt very real. Whether you read into it that he was ashamed with himself for finishing so early or that he was angry that she would set him up. I could relate with that shame unlike a lot of things currently on television, and that's a special moment. Even if it is with a character like Rust.

What. The. Hell.

@fengshuigod: Look if we can't talk candidly about sex, there's no point of talking about this show, that's like half the show.

@granderojo: Game of Marty Bones? You have an interesting way of describing things, and while I appreciate making fun of nonsensical nudity scenes I'm not sure if that was the intention of the director.

hahaha yes, I was just thinking about the police chief. I love cliche chiefs. That one you pulled is awesome but my favourite has to be the Beverly Hills Cop chief.

I still think the show will have a cool wrap up but yeah, Marty couldn't have become more generic TV cop. Rust is still great though.

That religion stuff... as soon as they showed that giant religious dude (state senator?) on the cop tour I was like "Boom, there's your murderer right there" so here's to hoping I'm not right. Evil religious institute seems so obvious but ... maybe ... there's something else?

I don't think Rust kicking Maggie out has anything to do with finishing early if that's what that was supposed to be. I thought it was just "animal intense sex" which on TV is usually portrayed as being 10 seconds long anyways. It's called "passion" I think. That's why she says later to Marty she hadn't been banged like that since before the kids. She's not lying. She means that there's no intensity to their sex anymore aka she'd rather have a few moments of passion rather than Marty's long, boring game, apparently. This is a famous TV and movie sex trope. I believe there is a scene in Breaking Bad like this too. I could be wrong but pretty sure it is also "short and intense" return of passion. Walt comes home, now confident because of whatever just happened, so he has "his balls back" and makes fast furious love to his wife. That said I could maybe buy the reverse, that Maggie lied about enjoying the bang to hurt Marty more, that Rust was mad about it too.. but... I'm trying to remember the scene, and usually TV shows are really blatant about women not enjoying sex and I don't remember any camera zoom to her disappointed face in that scene.

@geraltitude: To recap I think he's the Governor in 1995, a head of some powerful religious organization in 2003, and died in 2011 under mysterious circumstances (Overdosed?), the schools of evilness were planted in the 1980s and closed shortly thereafter. But don't be surprised if there's another villain switch and the original police chief is in on it (Governor's relative)! Also other shady dude who's around the police office and always plays a villain.

Ah, just what I needed! Right, so is it too straightforward to assume that Rust believed the governor did it, couldn't get the evidence in 2003, so aced him and made it look like an overdose? Ties up nicely but a wee bit obvious...

The old chief in on it? Hmm... Maybe. Kevin Dunn is always the innocent guy who has bad things happening under his nose, but maybe this time... it's serious different. There does need to be another villain flip though... hmmm...

Who's the other shady dude? I'm blanking.

Indeed.

@geraltitude: The fourth guy in the ridiculous chief's office. Looks like it's this guy based on imdb; 44 film credits and no picture. I've seen him in a bunch of things though. The dude with a slightly different uniform/grey hair/evil facial hair. Essentially he looks like he could play any character in the Departed and you would buy it.

The problem with this is that there was only one jump cut in the entire scene & it's barely a jump cut. When a director wants to denote a passage of time usually they will make themselves more obvious. I've heard the trope you're trying to described derogatorily as "magical cock. You could be perfectly right, that was just my read on the scene.

lol magical cock is a great name, yes, that's basically the phenomenon I'm describing. I mean I could be wrong but it just seemed like that to me.

I love this show but every time the episode ends I reach for a few shots of hard liquor while I try to process what happened. Rust's monologues scare the shit out of me at times. I guess the writers are earning their keep.

Okay, just binge watched the first 6 episodes. I used to not like Matthew McConaughey (as an actor or a person, seemed kind of full of himself and I can't remember liking him in anything but Dazed and Confused). How that has changed. His performance in True Detective is fucking admirable. Perfectly captures the essence of an absurdist, existentialist, cynical, realist; makes for a perfect detective (and perfect comedy relief to Woody Harrelsons outspoken, hot head character). One of my favorite books is the stranger, and he's definitely evoking some of that here.

I hope to god the show doesn't get fucked over and nominated for miniseries emmy's. It's an anthology series with 8 episodes, but the quality is so far and beyond the bulk of current tv that I think it should get a chance at the big awards.

As for predictions... I really hope neither of them turn out to be the killer (I've seen some speculate it's rust because of the way that girl looked at him and reacted when he asked about the man with the scars). I'm really not into those kinds of twists. Also, I don't want anything to soil Rusts cynical integrity (well, he already did by banging marty's wife, but I like him as a good cop, not a good killer).

(also, I get the title now. I thought there was no way it could be a good title, but it turned out to be clever).

@dochaus said:

Writer. Nic Pizzolatto is the showrunner, creator, and sole writer for True Detective.

If you ask me, it shows. There's a consistency to True Detective that is utterly absent in other television shows. It certainly doesn't hurt that Cary Fukunaga is a goddamn cinematic wizard with the camera. I'm really liking this "one writer, one director" setup they have. It's led to the best television I've ever seen.

!!!!

I thought they might not solve it. Rust always talking about how nothing is ever resolved. It ain't gonna get solved. Biggest tease ever!

Probably the least "flashy" episode thus far. Was that Sam Tuttle's scarred grandson at the end?

Well it was the same guy who was mowing the school lawn in episode 3.

I watched the "inside episode 7" youtube video, and the writer said we got a look at the killer, so that's definitely him.

Not a whole lot happened but it wasn't ridiculous like the previous episode so I guess it worked out okay, basically brought it back on the rails. The whole time-progression aspect of the show hasn't really added anything to it; could have just had in 1995 and in the present.

I enjoyed the episode, it had some dark moments, most notably the videotape, and some pretty stupid stuff, like the crazy lady who spouts the truth cliche/trope. Has anyone noticed any facial scars on the man who was on the lawn-mower?

Ok, this is probably really, really dumb, but the closest thing to spaghetti in the whole series, so far, is Rust's long hair :p

The obsession with lawn mowers reeled me in.

My family has been here a very long long time. They prophesied I would become The Lawnmower Man.

@postnothing: I didn't see any scars; I demand a scars birth certificate. Mah family's a bunch of crazy motherfuckers; good thing y'all dumbasses elected them to office.

Is it weird my initial reaction at the end wasn't "IT'S THE GUY WITH THE SCARS!" but instead, "HOLY SHIT IT'S GEORGE REMUS FROM BOARDWALK EMPIRE!"?

Holy shit that's Remus?! Remus would never have recognized him had you not mentioned it.

As for last night's ep, thought it was a bit tepid tbh. Grounding the characters is good but I got a bit bored by the procedural nature of the episode. This felt like a mid-season bridge, where the two main characters get over their differences for a common cause, which pushes the action for the second half of the season. How the heck will this get wrapped up next week? Can definitely see the case not getting solved rather than some crazy-ass twist.

okay ep. Tortue scenes next week.

I found the saying in the last episode, "Life is too short to be good at more than one thing" to stand out over all the other dialog. It made me sit back and think about it for a bit, mostly because I found it incorrect because it depends on the individual and perception.

@pimblycharles: Yep, a capable enough individual can be good at virtually everything; though there is probably something they're more interested in/the best at. Even if you look at a famous athlete (which is probably the most exclusionary profession) like Lebron, he seems like he'd be a good community leader/teacher/coach/GM/politician and so on.

I think he said good, as a way of saying one of the best in your field. As in the 10,000 hour rule.

EDIT: Malcolm Gladwell in his book "Outlier" also talks about how the people who reach 10,000 hours do so because they become so fixated with what they are doing that they do not want to do anything else. Little else matters. I think this describes Rust perfectly.

definition of life right here.

@mozzle: That's just a more or less trite observation that negates the ridiculous number of factors that lead into a person's capabilities and of course the tremendous, say 90-95% impact of luck and initial position in society. He just found a round number, good for him. Also Rust thinks in terms of Determinism so he's unlikely to believe in that notion either.

Well, based on his findings natural talent typically has little to do with it. Also I'm not disagreeing with you. I don't believe in the "Self Made Man". There is a reason why 3 of the biggest contributors to computers and internet are all born in the same year. I would not however call Gladwell's observation trite. You need both.

All I was saying, is that I think Rusts definition of good is probably different than your average joe. He is obsessives, and critical. His standard of what is good is likely a lot higher than others.

How about the follow up - be careful what you get good at?

Really liking Woody in this show. A real likeable asshole character that's just fun to watch.

So... it's Sunday. I'm excited about the finale, so I did a quick search, and I found few interesting things about tonight's episode. Nic Pizzolatto said in a interview few weeks ago that the show's "agenda" won't be clear until the last episode. Also, some say that the final episode will be the creepiest one, and finally I saw this:

I think I will have to watch it again to catch everything, but overall pretty satisfied by the ending. Some really intense scenes and great looking scenery. It was also kind of refreshing to see a show not dwell too much on its central villain. It wasn't interested in going into who this guy was or why he did the things he did, it was about the two leads start to finish. Can't wait for season 2.

I wonder what brought on that vision of a cloudy / stormy vortex for Rust. It distracted him and what followed was a very intense struggle. More than a few moments of pointing at the screen with an open mouth. "Damn" and what not. I thought it was most likely over for Rust. How many people come back from a wound like that.

The ending was like an ending to the Lethal Weapon franchise except one of the officers was black.

I liked how it ended quite a bit. I just wished they'd given the main villain more substance. All I got is that he's "crazy" and belongs to an important family. Crazy is too simple and easy a characterization for a show all about complex characters. I did like how Rust described dying. It reminded me of 'Thus Spoke Zarathustra'. Here's the line I'm referring to (this character is speaking to a dying man asking for his soul to be kept from going to hell)...

"On mine honor, my friend...there is nothing of all that whereof thou speakest: there is no devil and no hell. Thy soul will be dead even sooner than thy boy; fear, therefore, nothing any more."

From everything that he had said prior, I don't think Rust was talking about the afterlife when he said he felt his daughter and Father. What he felt was the warmth that dying can bring. That his guilt, pain, and suffering surrounding those deaths and his deeds during his life, and his general hate for the world he lived in, was gone. He didn't need to hold on so tightly with death and in that letting go he felt at love, nurtured, and finally, fully relaxed.

I thought that was terrible. Poor ending to a great show. It was as if the villain himself was not important. All the build up of who done it, and then to brush him aside so lightly. It was nothing like the rest of the show. It was poor. And then to turn rust into some religious believer. It was pathetic. Super bummed about that ending.

Yea, I feel the same way. They didn't even solve the damn case, they only solved a piece of it. lol

To the complaints about not giving depth to the villain, the show is about Rust and Marty. The whole story is told from their point of view and therefore no one but them really gets much depth, that's one of the core concepts to the show. The story is about them and their faults and personal development. The murder mystery is a good hook but it only really serves as a device to spur change in the two lead characters, and I think by the end having Rust feel some sort of emotion for once, after being such a pessimist, is a big part of his character arc. Now he has to find something worth living for beyond just this case. It wasn't 100 percent solved but like Marty said they got their man, and that's what matters.