The Twin Peaks Season 3 discussion thread! [SPOILERS]

@milkman: It always does the 'wtf is going on?' but at some point, there's always an answer to some extent, more so than what we got.

When it showed that image of the plastic disappearing from the beach I exclaimed "oh fuck you", so I'm glad that they didn't just make that a big happy ending. But then about halfway through episode 18 I was just shaking my head saying "I should've known", and then the credits happened and I felt like I'd wasted a lot of time.

I'm not sitting here trying to puzzle anything out, it doesn't feel like this season earned it. There was some great character stuff that was entirely separate from the main plot, but all the stuff that happened in episode 18 was about the main plot and... there wasn't anything there for me to care about, since it was entirely centred around bad characters and way too much exposition about things that were better left unknown (ironic).

I don't hate this season, it did give us some great stuff like Bobby, Dr Amp, Norma/Ed, and most of the developments in episode 16 (when things were looking promising still). I'm probably going to be hopelessly looking for episode 19 next week, in the hopes Lynch just wanted to piss everyone off and 17/18 were joke episodes.

I can’t complain that much about the ending tbh. It was disorienting, but worked for me. It left Cooper in an unknown time (completely fooled into thinking he had more control than he did) and “Laura” possibly coming to terms very bluntly with the nature of her existence and “meaning” in Twin Peaks. As well they both kind of realized in their own way they’re just straight-up fucked up in some limbo time and possibly worse off? Though I don’t know if they had a choice because both of their souls were kind of still bound to the black lodge? I’ll need to review a lot of things.

That being said, S3’s pacing really was poor. So much of this could have been done in like 10 episodes, not 18. I understand that part of the build to Coop coming back in 16 is how fucking glacial the Dougie shit is but like...someone went too far at some point with the 18 episode thing.

tho I don’t think I will ever tire of hearing Crysta Bell’s voice...and her character was great but felt like she was just kind of riding along half the time, for supposedly being the big new character.

Even though S2 meandered and shit at least it felt like they had a lot of fun most of the time.

WHAT ABOUT AUDREY!

I feel like I am inside a weird subsection of the fan reaction where I am fine with the ending itself. It was definitely haunting and 7 hours later still has me shaken, but how we arrived at that ending is the problem I'm facing. You say it's not a puzzle box but then spend a paragraph trying to fit it together. The storytelling (and you could argue Lynch's style) doesn't deal in much explicit narrative. With 1 hour left, and half of that spent on driving in silence, it felt like an out of nowhere turn. Thematically it can be justified, but the reasons for it just don't appear to be there.

Forums are full of rampant and completely unsubstantiated speculation, and hopefully some of that will bear out some small clues, but I don't think it's a stretch to say we haven't been given enough information. We are being kept out of the loop to a degree that none of the other episodes prepared me for. I didn't expect a neat wrap up or happy ending, I just want to know how we got there.

That's what annoys me the most, why even bother bringing Audrey back if you aren't going to explain a thing about her? She just got back to further a cliffhanger from 25s ago into...essentially the same cliffhanger, what happened with Audrey? Her 3 or 4 scenes weren't interesting(and at worst were annoying, like the initial scene with her and Charlie), she served no purpose to anything really...just why?

This reminds me of the final episode of the X-Files revival from a year or two ago, now rather than eagerly trying to piece together what's really going on and wanting to see what would happen next...I just barely care now.

I think this was one of the greatest seasons of TV of all time, even if I felt the middle section meandered a bit (but maybe I'll feel differently upon rewatching). I have no idea what to think of the finale other than that if gave me a huge sinking feeling in my chest and was kind of hauntingly beautiful, but also frustrating too. Part 17 was a great wrap-up to everything imo.

I was really happy that Lynch was able to squeeze Jack Nance into the show.

Okay, I'm starting to not believe the "Cooper messed up" theory. If his mistake was anywhere, it was when he snatched Laura out of FWWM, but even then, I'm not sure...

A) I'm probably going to get the sequence of events wrong, but no matter what, Cooper has already proven that he is in tune with the Lodge world. After 18 episodes (of them being painfully obvious where he had to go as Dougie, or literally talking to Mike and creating a tulpa as Cooper) there is no way that he is misreading their instructions.

B) If most of the ep 1-3 lodge scenes take place AFTER ep 17, Cooper appears to be on the right trail. He goes to 403 and finds a portal. He has sex with Diane, and is further transported (if the NYC scenes early in the season are meaningful for anything, it's to establish that sex brings you closer to the monster/JUDY). He finds the Richard/Linda clue. I have to watch the old episode again, but when Laura screams and disappears from the Lodge, isn't she staring up into the sky in the same exact way that mimics the final scene? If so, it seems like he was in the right place... maybe Laura is awakening in that final scene (which I assume would be a good thing).

C) If everything in the show is in order (lol), the Lodge spirits knew all along that Coop would try to take Laura away (record scratch sound), and would eventually get to not-Laura universe (403/RichardLinda). Even Andy got a peek at not-Laura's Odessa home.

Seems like everything had gone to plan. The only real annoying hang up is have is the same one @alistercat: has. Setting up a bit of motivation for Cooper would have gone a long way for me. Why was he suddenly fucking with timelines? How did Diane know how to do this all with him? Any little thing to set up this completely unannounced adventure of locating Odessa-Laura, and bringing her to The Plamers (because... why?) would have made the final hour more compelling. Instead we got replayed scenes (one of which was literally in the previous episode!) and roads of silence.

@roomrunner: it's so open that every interpretation is valid, and to me that makes none of it valid (or at least worthwhile). I don't feel like that was true of the rest of twin peaks. Just that episode.

People wanting Lynch to explain things

Lol

The way I see it, Cooper fell for his own myth, as did all of us. He thought he could fix everything because that's who he was always been. He always had the answers and for 18 hours, we were waiting for Cooper to wake up and fix things. But he never really was this infallible paragon of justice and good that we thought he was. I'm reminded of season 2 when Cooper failed to save Maddie. It was one of the few times where we saw Cooper lost and confused, knowing he didn't have the answers. He thought he could bring back Laura and make everything right but he was wrong. Some things can't be fixed and some things are better left dead. That's the lesson. When Cooper brought Laura back, he destroyed the reality that he knew. By bringing Twin Peaks back, David Lynch destroyed the show that its fans thought it knew. This whole season has been about denying expectations and almost a complete rejection of anything even resembling fan service, outside of a few key moments. The message should have been heard loud and clear. This is not the Twin Peaks that you loved. That Twin Peaks may have never existed to begin with. The more I think about it, the more I think that this is about as a definitive an ending that the show could possibly have and the more I think it's perfect.

Yep, that fuckin' sucked. What a lame ass ending.

I didn't expect we would get answers to everything, if anything at all, and yet it still managed to dissapoint.

@flatblack said:

Except that he does. Constantly.

What do you all think of "Guy Ritchie presents: One Punch Man"?

Season 3 far exceeded my expectations. I hope we get more but I'm OK with that being the end if we don't.

@alistercat: Without a doubt, but more often than not the answers are provided in a context that isn't explicit. Some of the people in this thread sound like they expected season 3 to end with Coop sitting in the RR sipping a cup of coffee and tying up every loose end beat for beat. What Lynch delivered was so much more nuanced than that, and it's an ending that I think we'll all be chewing on for a very long time. The final scene gave me a pit in my stomach that left me laying awake half the night. It's perfect.

This. All of this.

The most miraculous thing about The Return is how deftly it juggles fan service, plot, and the twisted lore of Twin Peaks, all without diluting the core theme of abuse and its everlasting effects.

As above, you can read it as a definitive ending, or see it as Cooper - with an awakened Laura Palmer - now having a fighting chance against "Judy" in what could make for an awesome season 4. Both reads are equally valid, and not even mutually exclusive.

I fucking love this show.

I love this shit, it's such a strange roller coaster that doesn't give a fuck about what it does. Also her scream is the only spooky style scare whatever you want to call it that actually frightens me.

Alright, just came off watching the double finale episode thing about 5 minutes ago.

Of course there's a lot to read, digest and discuss, but I have to say two things first: One, the moment when Cooper met 90s Laura in the woods, and Laura's theme began playing, and he said "We're going home" I started bawling (inside) The whole past - present sequence was... unbelievable.

Second, near the very end when it faded to black after Cooper asked "What year is it?" I thought, what if the credits rolled now? That would mean season 4! Please let the credits roll!

And they did. I've never felt this, but my mind literally felt it was experiencing tiny explosions. I stood in shock throughout the credits.

So... season 4?

That's how I felt since episode 15 too. It was finally getting where we wanted to all along, but only so damn late.

In a way that made me prefer episode 18's ... nothingness more than an episode where it would have finally come together. It would have been too little and would've left me feeling more frustrated that we got so little of the good stuff. Now, possibly we can have a season set properly in Twin Peaks with a proper Coop.

(Right?)

@dan_citi said:

Totally loved the atmosphere in that scene too. Had vibes of FWWM which I love. The stuff from episode 17 from FWWM completely nailed the finale for me. I don't know if it could have been much more in a 2 hour thing. Also, the things you described and the whole Laura stuff hits a lot harder if on has read the Secret Diary of Laura Palmer.

The way I see it, considering the amount of damage the first 14 or so episodes had done in terms of pacing already, episode 17 and 18 turned out as good as they could possibly have.

Coop's look of expectation, waiting for that 'ding' moment that would fix everything when he rang that doorbell, infected me with the same feelings, so I am a bit disappointed. It was a bit of an, "Oh, right," moment. Just before the end I said out loud, "Is she going to scream and the credits roll..."

Nothing in the previous 17 episodes prepared me for such a blunt, "She's doomed - THE END." I wasn't waiting for a happy ending or anything, it makes perfect sense. What I'm feeling empty about is the execution. I've never been a fan of the sudden realization cutting to a black screen style. Of course, that's not the real ending of Twin Peaks; us, the audience, coming to terms with what that scene implies, and the Sisyphean fates of characters treasured dearly by so many for so long is. That moment wasn't the end, it was the beginning, all over again. The return.

I still didn't like it, though. Perhaps I wasn't meant to. I will ponder it for a long time.

Nope. That was never going to happen.

Yeah, I don't know how you could possibly look at where they left this (in an alternate dimension or something with none of the Twin Peaks characters as you know them, after an entire season of not being Cooper in Twin Peaks) and think that'd ever happen.

I would love to see a new season in this new world. I think the idea is really really cool. Never revisit the previous world.

Or I could watch Sliders.

Well that was a helluva thing. I really enjoyed it. Made me very happy.

I mean, it was sad, but you know. Very glad the whole thing got made, wonderfully chilling ending and all.

Yeah I meant it half jokingly. But DL and MF have said they're open to the idea of another season, and ending it in this way made me feel that they wanted to leave the possibility open, to see how the future responds to it (for example, the end of season 2 allowed a return 25 years later, compared to if it had ended neatly) I think what @milkman said about resurrecting things from the dead is possibly correct, but damn that's really dark too.

So yeah, maybe not a normal TP with a normal Coop like we always wanted, but something could still happen. With anyone else, it would've been the end. With DL I feel it's a little difficult to predict where this goes (or doesn't) next. Considering his views on creativity, meditation and beauty, I feel he'd be open to returning if everything aligned and fell into place. Until then, I'll be checking out the final dossier that'll be out in October.

Just my opinion (and me naively hoping) of course :)

It's really shaken me. I woke up the next morning feeling slightly ill and not wanting to think about the episode. That's kinda crazy but... amazing?

Is this Future or past ?

So here's my Theory 17 was the ending of Twin Peaks, 18 was a bonus episode or postmortem episode. Witch was just a big Dave Lynch mindfuck.

1000%. It's genuinely blood-curdling.

Yeah, I got a bit of Lost Highway vibes from it as well. I happened to really like Lost Highway though, so I didn't much mind. Not sure about the same universe thing though. The thought did cross my mind once Coop started messing with past events that Twin Peaks might be something like The Dark Tower for all of Lynch's work, but I don't put much stock in that.

I'm very glad though that it didn't end with Cooper messing with the past and leading Laura away from Jaques and Leo only to bring her into the clutches of what I'm assuming is the Experiment/Jao Dae/Jowday/Judy/JUDY/E.N.F. (which I think is safe to assume was inside Sarah Palmer?). That woulda been way too much of a cliffhanger for my liking. An episode that gave a taste of the consequences of fucking with time was much appreciated. I was watching that scene of the body wrapped in plastic disappearing and Pete, Josie, and Catherine (nice to see them all again, even if just in a flashback) with bated dread. There had to be some confounding response for a human to alter reality like that, one that would diminish Coop's understanding no matter how familiar he may be with the Black Lodge.

If they did ever decide to continue the story in any manner, I imagine it'd very much be a man out of time sort of thing with Coop trying to maneuver around JUDY across time(s), to what end I have no idea. Presumably they managed to destroy BOB in the penultimate, so maybe Coop with the aid of MIKE and such would try the same with the Experiment? Is there any indication that MIKE also spawned from the Experiment? He cut off his arm because something about it being marked by evil or some such, and Philip Gerard said the tatoo on his arm said "MOM," so who the fuck knows.

Whether they continue or not, I'm good. This season was a treat. That it happened to also be great by my reckoning is a bonus.

The impression I got was that Laura is more powerful than Judy. In ep two, she removed her face (like Sarah Palmer did) to reveal a white light. In the same ep, she made allusions to being dead, yet she lives. The fireman left Cooper clues that led him to Odessa. Seems like bringing Laura to Judy is exactly what the forces of good want.

That jibes with the Fireman creating and sending that Laura orb to Earth, but that Laura who removed her face would've been the Laura who's already "died" and been in the Red Room for some time (i.e. knows what's up to some degree), compared to the FWWM Laura at the end of episode 17 that seemed to be taken by something.

Here's a good quote from Lynch for anyone struggling with the finale.

"Closure. I keep hearing that word...As soon as a show has a sense of closure, it gives you an excuse to forget you've seen the damn thing."

I'm inclined to agree with that. When I think series finales I'm much more likely to think back on something like Mad Men or The Sopranos, endings that left questions hanging as opposed to a finale like Breaking Bad (a show I still like a lot) that completely wrapped everything up. Even if you love that show, who even remembers that last episode?

@milkman: I don't disagree with what he's saying either, but I don't think he did a very good job of making a memorable open ending. Something about the delivery, there just wasn't enough to go on and too many of the plotlines come across as forgotten or completely unexplained (and at worst, a waste of time).

Something like Nier Automata has an open ending, it wraps up the main plot thread but leaves it in an uncertain place and doesn't over-explain everything, instead asking a question relevant to the themes of the game and focusing on your faith in the characters. I thought about that game constantly for like a month after I finished it, and still think about the endings. The ending of The Return? It's already out of my mind unless I see this thread on the front page, and even then I never think about the episode, I just think about David Lynch. I think my issue is that Lynch was so focused on the artistic side of things that there wasn't a very coherent through-line, just a bunch of emotions in the moment (and he's amazing at doing that, the last scenes of 18 were horrific), but for me that didn't stick beyond the moments, and so the finale in general wound up not really staying with me. Kind of like how you forget what being sick feels like when you're not sick any more.

@milkman: Sure, yes. If by closure he means wrapping absolutely everything up with a very neat and very apparent bow.

Breaking Bad is a good example. Boardwalk Empire as well made sure to bring everything around full circle. That said, a show doesn't have to just end abruptly to be memorable of course. I'd say the Twin Peaks season two ending is more infamous than a boon to its memory, whether the distinction matters to Lynch I don't know. Season three's ending however felt like the right kind of non-absolute-closure (i.e. sufficiently balanced out by some amount of closure).

@theht: No, don't get me wrong, I actually liked Lost Highway, and delved deep into the story to find some very interesting theories that seem correct, I just was hoping Twin Peaks wouldn't be that. I love all the strange things that happen, and the prolonging of not knowing what is happening with almost every episode, but I expected to have more of a conclusion in the end. I guess some answer it with Cooper and Palmer being in a never ending loop of not being able to finish Cooper's initial goal or what have you, but eh. I didn't like the end episode. As for the same universe, David Lynch said it was in the same universe as Lost Highway, but I don't know how it connects exactly.

I can't say I agree with the quote. The more someone does that with their work, the more I want to forget about it and just give up on even caring (which, by the way, is far worse than forgetting an episode of a show I loved). To me, a story with a good conclusion that wraps things up doesn't make it not memorable.

Not sure if I *have to* reiterate this, but I'm fine with S3's closing scene. What it lacked was a proper set up. I don't think Lynch earned the audience's suspension of disbelief that Cooper had knowledge of (or could) time travel. Instead of getting caught up in the drama, i was too busy thinking of what all the time travel stuff means for other characters, and what the intentions/motivations of the newly introduced JUDY character is.

I can't imagine any other writer getting away with last minute additions of "I can time travel now" and "there is an even bigger and badder bad guy that you all didn't know about." in the last 80 minutes of a 40-something episode series and feature film story arc.

@milkman: Yeah, I've thought similar things for a while. Actually I think Mulholland Dr. was what first made me think about it. To create a work with a true sense of mystery, you can't just solve the mystery at the end. What Lynch does so well is gives you all these narrative pieces that eventually lock into place -- but leaves just enough ambiguous so the mystery persists. The theories and interpretations go on forever after it's over. Now I don't necessarily think most shows should be that way, but I appreciate a deep sense of mystery once in a while. (Also, I totally remember the finale of Breaking Bad. You probably should have chosen a worse show as an example.)

Are we all agreed that the finale sync truthers are crazy?

Because like, asking the audience to re-edit the film seems to go against Lynch's "total control auteur filmmaker" philosophy. Also, as good as that last scene was (here it is for reference -https://streamable.com/ma8un ) it could have been synched slightly better (like Laura screaming just as the image was breaking up in 17. AND they could have had a lot more stuff synch up deliberately too, than just these two or three "weird, innit?" moments.

@roomrunner: They just had an AMA with the executive producer of this season, who said that is "Definitely not the way to watch" 17 & 18. Besides, it's obvious that the correct way to watch the finale is to sync them backwards.

Maybe there isn't anything to watching those episodes synced up, but the timeline between the two being non-linear doesn't seem too crazy an idea to me, given the places episode 18 goes.

You're free to read it however you want, and I think that's one of the strongest aspects of Lynch's work, that there can be wildly different reads on the same material and can both be valid. That said, the way the final scene at the house lines up with 17 and 18 synced is WILD.

I feel like the final episode is growing on me the further away from it I get.

Having said that, I still think it is a poorly done hour of television. I like what it presents, but dislike how it was presented.

I made a thing and I'm proud of it.