The Wrestling Discussion Thread - AEW Dynamite This Wednesday

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niko_of_death

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How is Brock consistently the best thing on any show he's on. My boy Brennan out their taking F5's on the monitors like a pro.

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Dizzyhippos

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Seth please stop... it didnt work when Hogan did it its not gonna work now.

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DrDarkStryfe

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Some Wrestle Kingdom matches were announced a bit ago.

It is confirmed that night two's main event will be champion vs champion; the winner of Okada vs Ibushi and White vs Naito will main event night two. The losers of those two matches will face off as well on night two in a special singles match.

Night one will have the IWGP Heavyweight and IC title matches, Ospreay vs Takahashi for the Jr Heavyweight title, and an eight man tag featuring Liger in his second to last match.

Night two will have the champion vs champion match, the special singles match featuring the previous night's losers, Tanahashi vs Jericho, Roppangi 3k vs Bullet Club for the Jr Heavyweight Tag titles, and Liger's final match.

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Brian_

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Every week Jim Cornette says something on NWA Power that makes me strongly consider just watching the show on mute.

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Shiftygism

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@dizzyhippos: That's the least annoying thing Seth's said lately.

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redwing42

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@brian_ said:

Every week Jim Cornette says something on NWA Power that makes me strongly consider just watching the show on mute.

Tonight was particularly egregious, which is unfortunate, because It was another good episode of Power, even though it was some rematches from previous episodes.

AEW Dark also good again tonight. Spears-Nakazawa was fun. Sadie Gibbs has potential, but is still very green. Martinez is always very good, though. Main event was pretty good, even though Stunt doesn't click with me. Probably the best part of the show was MJF channeling his inner Bobby Heenan on commentary.

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Dizzyhippos

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#43257  Edited By Dizzyhippos

I dont know whats going on with a lot of the women AEW has signed, I've seen a bunch of them have better matches then they have show on the indies.

Though admittedly the match I saw Britt have on WM weekend was against Tessa who might be the best non Joshi woman in the world right now.

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Sargon

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Is anyone watching MLW? I have been giving it an honest chance over the past few months, and even bought the PPV last weekend, but it was disappointing. The Dynasty is great, and there are a few other interesting guys like Jacob Fatu and Mance Warner, but I find myself not caring about most of the roster. I wanted to root for the Von Erichs, but they aren't anything special in the ring and their promos are absolutely atrocious. Is there any reason to stick around?

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Roomrunner

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Seth should have been doing all these tweets during his "HHH's chosen one" era.

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DPEP56

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After AEW Dark this week, I need more MJF doing commentary. Almost everything he says is pure gold.

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norm9

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@brian_: I was watching the latest episode and I think (I was pretty drunk) Cornette said something stupid in teh first five minutes. Forget what it was though, but it made me take notice.

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Retris

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So just a heads up, there's some disturbing rumours going around on social media.

According to the rumour, Chasyn Rance and Teddy Hart have once again been involved in sex-trafficking. Seems credible.

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Shiftygism

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#43264  Edited By Shiftygism

@retris: I know several people that worked with the guy in Calgary, any rumor about him is likely true.

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Gundato

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On a less horrifically fucked up note (seriously, "again"?!?!?!)

Anyone have any experience with Bleacher Report Live? Decided I am totally willing to pay 50 bucks (jesus fucking christ) for Full Gear. But does that let me rewatch it whenever I want? or do I have to actually catch it live/watch it in a contiguous block?

And is there a better place for US folk to buy full gear if we don't have cable?

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Fugoy

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#43266 Fugoy  Online

@gundato: Bleacher Report has unlimited replays of shows you've purchased so you're good.

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Dizzyhippos

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#43267  Edited By Dizzyhippos

God damn if that Cody promo wasn't fantastic.

Though calling Jericho's dad a "famous" hockey player might be a stretch.

And this has been a fantastic build for "the match beyond".

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hansolol

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Dude, how great was Dynamite's go-home show? Cody's promo, that Jericho video package and the main event brawl were all so. damn. awesome. I especially loved Moxley helping battle Inner Circle and then immediately going back to fighting with Omega.

Seriously, holy shit. Cannot wait for Full Gear.

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Dizzyhippos

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#43269  Edited By Dizzyhippos
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Retris

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@hansolol: To me the show felt extremely lackluster. While Cody's promo was good on a technical level, they've been giving him so much time on the show that I was completely checked out on it. The brawl was the same thing, by the time the main-event match ended I was waiting for a brawl to start and there it came. I did love the Jericho video promo, especially the "Aunt's friend from church" or whatever, pure gold.

But my big problem was that besides those segments the show felt completely filler. None of the matches felt like they mattered in the long run and they don't seem to have a lot of ideas what to do with people other than the Elite and the Inner Circle.

The show still has growing pains, but I genuinely hope they find their voice sooner rather than later.

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Stephen_Von_Cloud

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Good episode of Dynamite. I was encouraged by the Women's tag match. While I think the roster has been lackluster past a couple names, I think everyone in the match was good and promising. I really like Jamie Hayter.

@dizzyhippos said:

Though calling Jericho's dad a "famous" hockey player might be a stretch.

They also say Hager is an undefeated MMA juggernaut so.

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hansolol

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@retris: I don't know, almost everything they're trying is working for me. Every episode of the show feels like an event.

Personally I've loved the build to Cody/Jericho. The world title's important and they're giving it lots of time on the shows. In another universe, people are complaining that the world title feels secondary to the Elite/Inner Circle feud and that Cody isn't getting enough time on the show to get over and the crowds are only reacting to Jericho.

It's probably too soon to switch titles but at least he's being pushed as a realistic contender to the title, right? I mean, that's what you want in a world title feud; you wanna believe maybe he can win. I don't feel like the audience is saying, "let's get this over with, we know Cody's not winning so who cares."

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Dizzyhippos

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@retris: I mean you can't just do cool shit matches for the sake of it, that is one of the many things that eventually killed WCW.

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Retris

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@dizzyhippos: That was kind of my point. They're just doing matches with no rhyme or reason. Anything not connected to the Elite or Cody is an afterthought. Especially as a tag match fan the fact that they've made the tag titles completely unimportant and the title match at full gear has zero build is just infuriating. They're already making that mistake WWE makes where the titles don't matter unless somebody who matters holds them.

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devise22

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@retris: How does the tag titles feel unimportant? After having a tag team tournament in which they had a young team upset their "top" team they built the tag tournament rematch into the title match at Full Gear and even managed to find a way to add the incredibly over Private Party to that mix. I'm not saying it's blood feud worthy, although Lucha Bros did attack SCU to start the tournament. But considering the nature of the other feuds I think this feud being less promo/serious stuff and more about the inaugural championship chase makes way more sense. From Kenny/Mox, Cody/Jericho and even Page/Pac and Bucks/Proud n Powerful we have tons of pure story feuds going into this.

I just don't see how you can suggest it has "zero build." It's just a different type of build, if that isn't your cup of tea it doesn't have to be obviously but yeah I've been fine with it. I've felt in general the tag wrestling has felt like such a focal point of the show, with Best Friends also getting a lot of attention as well.

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xanadu

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Why the fuck is Donald Trump Jr on Chris Jerichos podcast?

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Roomrunner

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Chris Jericho doing anything he can to get boos.

But seriously that fucking sucks, and kinda soured me on full gear

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Dizzyhippos

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#43278  Edited By Dizzyhippos

I assume this means we get Fabby Apache in AEW at some point because you dont partner with AAA and not get her in for something with your women's division.

AEW signed Big Swole for the womens division. Not the first one I would of grabbed but maybe Jamie is like Mercedez and doesnt want to/cant.

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DrDarkStryfe

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@xanadu: Because he's the Joe Rogan or wrestling podcasters. Get big names and just be the "I'm just asking questions, bro" host.

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Shiftygism

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AEW's ppv preshows put WWE's to shame, this documentary presentation is so fucking good.

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Gundato

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#43281  Edited By Gundato

More thoughts at a later point but I just need to say

HOLY FUCKING SHIT I LOVE MJF!!! Was just thinking he had already reached "Edge levels" of Heel work and his character work had the potential to lead to him being a Jericho in a few years. At this point, MJF is just MJF. That was the kind of shit which wrestlers have been trying to pull off for decades

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AlwaysBeClothing

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There was a point in that Mox and Omega match where I thought, "This is surely the end." Then they kept going. That match was amazing, and I never want to see it again. I want those two to be able to move when they're older.

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Milkman

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#43283  Edited By Milkman

Obligatory Full Gear post, here we go.

  • Bucks vs. LAX was as expected a really good tag match. They wrestled a more grounded match than I expected but pulled it off really well. Maybe a couple of weird spots in the middle but overall, not much to complain about, good stuff. Can't wait for the LAX/RnR Express rematch.
  • I'm one of the many people who have given Hangman shit about his push in AEW but I have absolutely nothing bad to say about him after this match. It helps having Pac in the ring with you but Page was fantastic tonight. If you told me before the show that Page was going over, I would have been pissed but they completely earned it. Great stuff.
  • Just about the only good thing I can say about Spears vs. Janela is that the assisted piledriver spot with Tully at the end was cool. Moving on.
  • AEW made the wrong decision making SCU the first tag champs. Christopher Daniels is cool and all but Lucha Bros are so clearly the hotter team right now. Match felt pretty underwhelming besides a couple of cool spots, which mostly involved Fenix. The Daniels return didn't feel particularly exciting, mostly because he was beating up the team that the crowd actually wants to see win.
  • Love, love, loved Riho vs. Sakura. It's so disappointing that AEW couldn't figure out how to give this match a proper build because it should have felt so much more important than it did. Both girls absolutely killed it and this is the first time I can remember seeing a high quality joshi style match like this on a big American stage in I don't know how long. Can't praise it enough.
  • Look, I'm really not a Cody guy. Him and his matches are just not my thing. But clearly, everyone else in the world absolutely loves him. This guy could not possibly be more over, the crowd was absolutely losing their mind the entire match and eating out of the palm of his hand the whole time. So what can I even say? It's still not my thing but it's working so god bless.
  • And then there's this. The upcoming discourse about Omega/Mox will definitely be something to see. I'll just say I was really not a fan. Trying to do "deathmatch" spots at this level comes off as completely phony. A lot of the appeal of deathmatch wrestling is the danger and it's impossible to sell the danger when you're a giant corporate wrestling company with two of your top guys. It all came off as just goofy nonsense. I'll give credit to Kenny for doing some of this shit but yeah, this match was bad. You gave up this life Mox, leave it to the professionals.

Had a good time watching overall but definitely some question marks about AEW remain for me.

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Dizzyhippos

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I never want to hear anyone say the young bucks cant sell ever again.

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Shiftygism

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I wish this was real.

I would pay good money for this to be real.

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Dizzyhippos

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DrDarkStryfe

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Dragon Lee and Kenny Omega will be having a match in AAA, and it won't be live, and it might not even be taped.

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Stephen_Von_Cloud

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Omega v Moxley was really great. I really didn't think they would ever use the bat and broom but they did and it got crazier from there.

Opener was a great match. Santana and Ortiz are really funny and I appreciate their whole work in the match in that way. Having things well mic'd so you could hear what they said really helped.

Hangman vs Pac was a great match. Pac has been so good and I think this was the best Hangman match he's had in AEW.

Riho vs Sakura was really well done. It was rushed in set up and the whole women's division is clearly a work in progress but this match plus some recent additions that I've enjoyed watching so I think it'll get there.

SCU continues to bore me and I wish Lucha Bros were getting more of the push they deserve. Next time Fenix does a rope run please make it a big spot and show it on TV properly!

Overall it was great. I could do with not watching Spears wrestle again but otherwise I liked it all and loved watching it.

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hansolol

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#43289  Edited By hansolol

I imagine Moxley's next feud is with Spears. He had that "no more garbage wrestling" shirt and has been winning the past couple weeks. Looking at the roster, no one sticks out for Omega's next feud. Maybe Hager?

@milkman said:

AEW made the wrong decision making SCU the first tag champs. Christopher Daniels is cool and all but Lucha Bros are so clearly the hotter team right now.

I assumed when they won the titles that it had to do with the fact that SCU is exclusive to AEW. Lucha Bros work everywhere so they feel like they're on loan.

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Gundato

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#43290  Edited By Gundato

Meant to post earlier but got sidetracked

Pre-show: I'll catch up and watch that eventually. Only saw the tail end of Britt vs ??? and it seemed fine. But it did remind me how much I genuinely love the Tazz+Excal combo on commentary

  • Bucks VS P&P: Stupid name aside, it was an okay match. Kudos to Nick for actually trying to sell the leg injury and having a few "botches" from it. But the Bucks are not about ring psychology and he only sold it when he remembered to. And P&P;s weird plumber/baseball outfits just look stupid. And the ending of the match kind of came out of nowhere
  • PAC vs Page: I liked this match a lot. Good energy and some great spots and sequences. The first half of the match elt incredibly disjointed, but the last third was spectacular and flowed perfectly. If this match were half as long it probably would have been one of the best AEW matches ever. As it stands, it was just a good one. And PAC's bit where he stomped Page through the ropes just looked brutal and stiff in all the best ways
  • Janella vs Spears: Uhm... okay? I guess every show needs a piss break (or for me, a tea break). Seemed fine but this felt like the kind of match where you really need the narrative build-up and I actively don't like Spears and begrudgingly tolerate Janella so... yeah. Ending spot was interesting, but the problem with Janella is that he has a gimmick for surviving insane brutality and apparently was taken out by one piledriver.
  • Private Party, Lucha Bros, SCU: Pretty much since I watched Scorpio's ridiculously good looking suicide dive at DoN I've increasingly been an SCU mark. But Private Party, obnoxious gimmick and theme music that makes me want to mute the TV aside, are actually really great. I love them in ring, even if I will never stop thinking the blonde guy is an extra from Dinosaurs. And the Lucha Bros are just amazing. Match was fun and they did a good job of trying to make a three way tag match make any sense at all (kudos to Scorpio for missing tags. It is a nice touch). That being said, the New Age Outlaws (but actually good at wrestling) as the top dogs feels a bit wasted and I'd be fine with SCU losing the belts sooner than later. Also, what the hell is it with a bunch of old white guys dressing up like Pentagon Jr?
  • Riho vs Emi: Great promo package that played to Riho's "gimmick" (she is a 22 year old 13 year veteran...) and it was nice to make it clear there was no real animosity between them and this was just about the belt. Great match and probably my favorite of the night as both wrestlers had amazing personalities and they knew how to work Riho being insanely tiny (seriously. I know that the belts are sized for 300 pound steroid fiends but it looked like they had to drill an extra hole for that belt to fit around Riho's waist. Still, Riho needs to wrestle people her own size or lose the belt because "watch her get thrown around like a ragdoll and sell the living hell out of moves" gets old after a while
  • Kenny vs Moxley: I increasingly don't like hardcore bullshit these days and this just felt weird. It was clear they were protecting the hell out of both performers and neither would get too hurt, but it still just wasn't fun. I want to see good technical wrestling, not people getting dragged through ice (great job JR...). That being said, the transitions and character work in this match were fucking amazing. Mox came across as a lunatic who just wants to cause pain. And Kenny's usual shenanigans made him look sadistic. And I really hope there is a BTE bit of Kenny and the Bucks making all the shit for the match. It is weird, I loved Page/PAC but felt their character work and transitions were weak. And I loved the character work in this but felt the spots were boring and annoying. Kenny/Mox transitions with Page/PAC spots would be fucking amazing

Cody with MJF vs Jericho: Like I said, this was fucking amazing. MJF was the clear star of the night. I remember thinking "Wow. MJF is a piece of shit who is going to betray Cody, but holy crap he looks genuinely proud of his buddy" during the opening "yell at the camera" sequence. The fact that MJF can make me actually "believe" his bullshit consistently is why he is already one of the greats. As for the match itself, it was fine. Cody's big bump looked more stupid than anything else and I REALLY hope that was a botch. But good match flow and I liked how Hagar was handled. And I straight up was making "no. not like this" jokes at the ending (and appreciate AEW realizing the Judas Effect is a shitty move whereas The Wall of Jericho is amazing). And kudos to AEW and Cody because I genuinely thought Cody was going to turn on MJF at the end and ran the gamut of "Well, here we go. OH FUCK!! YOU PIECE OF SHIT!!! God damned, I love MJF" in the span of about four seconds as the betrayal set in. And MJF sold the ever loving shit out of that, especially with his facial expressions.

Overall: I liked it, and I think my biggest takeaway was that this is a sustainable PPV. Fairly tight card (Janella aside) with a decent balance of spectacle and storyline matches. I they can pull this off quarterly, I am going to keep giving Bleacher Live money.

That being said: The production issues are getting old. Poorly timed camera cuts and the high angle from above the ramp always made me think someone was doing a run-in. And it was probably the lighting, but I was consistently genuinely annoyed at what looked like the vinyl over the ramp bunching up.

And get rid of JR. He gave AEW the ratings boost and got old school WWE fans in. But he still can't be bothered to remember move or wrestler names and actively does not care. Combine that with calling out the glass as ice and him fucking up PAC/Kenny at the last PPV and he is just hurting the product. And it is annoying because Tazz and Excalibur have been repeatedly shown to be an amazing team that has great banter and elevate both wrestlers in the matches. JR just starts rambling and depends on other people to give him context.

----

And while I don't think SCU benefit from the titles, I am really glad they have the belts right now. The various promo match-up pictures were mostly "meh". But seeing an attempt at "majestic" Frankie Kazarian (sp?) was amazing in all the best ways

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devise22

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Yeah I'll have some deeper PPV thoughts later but I'll just say I disagree with the few here saying SCU were a bad first Tag Champs choice. Crowd can be "over" on Lucha Bros all they want, I love them too. But they can't work as tag champs right now at all. All the matches they've worked in AEW have been good in spite of the themselves because the talent has been so good. AEW is trying to do various different aspects of storytelling week to week, match to match. All Lucha Bros can do is wrestling a modified half ass AAA match and forget how to work the rules of a real tag match.

Even look at Full Gear, they felt they had to add a third team into the mix to allow the chaos of that tag match to make sense. Meanwhile Bucks and Proud/Powerful were working heavy pyschology regarding the ref not seeing tags so he wasn't allowing men to come in, various different aspects of hot tags etc. Lucha Bros need to learn how to work this style of tag wrestling or else they are just a fun tag gimmick to bring in. You need Champs who can work all sorts of match styles and tag stories, not just "our shtick." Remember we are on TV here now, this isn't the indies anymore. You can't just show up and do your thing and have a good match and that's good enough. There are parts to that and they are still super useful, but I feel like lots of fans are ignoring how limited their style has been to the long term booking of the company and I feel it's a huge reason they aren't going to sniff the championships for a while.

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Gundato

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For those wondering (RE: The Saudi Flight): Yeah, they went there

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Roomrunner

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I saw the finish to Cody/Jericho and thought it was brilliant. I spent a couple days thinking about how cool it's going to be over the next few weeks watching MJF get nuclear heat in every Elite segment with everyone knowing he threw in the towel to screw Cody, but nobody can PROVE it...

Then this morning I saw the post match segment. That's a shame, they moved too quickly with this turn.

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Dizzyhippos

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#43294  Edited By Dizzyhippos

@devise22: I think the problem more is that fans want the Lucha Bro's right now, SCU are a fine choice but if you put them in the same ring together people are gonna be fore Fenix and Pentagon more often then not.

@roomrunner: Honestly I think you could argue ether way about MJF turning, if you have been following since All In its not too soon, but if your a new fan thats only been watching a month it is.

According to Bryan Alvarez, the deal with that Moxley/Omega match was that Moxley wanted to do something wild like that in WWE and they said no so he really wanted to do it in AEW. Personally I thought it was tame by GCW/CZW/MLW standards but if it got it out of their systems whatever, I just hope it doesnt hurt the rating on Wednesday.


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