TV shows still lack basic elements, do you agree?

So I was exercising on my stationary bike just now, watching the eighth episode of the first season of Boardwalk Empire, and something happened that made me feel I'm fed up with TV shows.There's nothing wrong with the dialogue or themes or anything like that, but rather very basic elements such as environments and logic that are still severely missing in these shows.

Let me list the four relatively new shows that I've had those annoyances with, and I'm curious if you've noticed the same things: (Warning, this is a little nit picky, but in my opinion these are things that devalue the entire enjoyment of watching a show.)

Game of Thrones (spoilers all over it)

The cities are empty and small. Have you noticed this? The production values for this show are through the roof, and it has become a TV masterpiece, yet when there's a scene in Winterfell, King's Landing or Qarth, there's no people. When WINTERFELL, the capital of the north, was seized by Theon, there were like 10 people in there (I realize the men of the north are fighting a war, but there are supposed to be 'people' in Winterfell, the residents there). And ever since the first episode Winterfell seemed like nothing but a single castle with a stable and a yard. Something's missing.

Same with Qarth. Aside from the 'party' where they celebrated their new guest (Dany), the town always looks empty. When Dany was walking around with the Zoro Xa-whatever guy, it was empty. When she pursued the kidnapped dragons, there was no one around.

And last but not least, King's Landing. When Joffrey and his entourage got attacked, it looked like there was just 10-15 people throwing rocks at them. When they awaited Stanis' fleet and Joffrey pussied out, the "men" that Tyreon convinced to stay and fight were like 20 soldiers standing underneath him.

The supposedly massive cities have very few people and scarce locations making it feel like they're museums or villages, what do you think?

WINTERFELL, Y U SO SMALL AND EMPTY?

Person of Interest

In the first or second episode, hacking a phone was about stealing a person's phone and running an application on it as well as John's phone. Then later on it just became this thing where John looks at a person and his phone starts hacking that person's phone even from afar. If it's so easy and instant then why doesn't everyone do it? Why don't John and Finch get hacked continuously? And why have they become so lazy with showing that John needs effort to hack a phone?

Not to mention that he's New York City's most wanted, yet he walks around in his suit all over the city applying for jobs within the various criminal organizations and no one captures or even pursues him. He's wanted by the FBI, CIAand NYPD, yet he walks all over town without even getting cops suspicious.

Bullshit!

Boardwalk Empire (S01E08 spoiler)

I need to know why Thompson asked for Jimmy's help out of all people when his Sheriff brother got shot. All of a sudden it feels his empire has no men, no power, no ARMY, that it's just him, Margret, his German assistant and his brother. What the fuck?

He discarded Jimmy like a used hooker, since he had the power and the army behind him and didn't need that trouble maker, and now he asks for HIS help like he's desperate?

Fuck this noise, brother.

The Walking Dead (More of a rant here)

Up until the next-to-last episode of the first season, things were exciting and they made sense. There was a lot of quality drama, a lot of great plot surprises as well as dialogue. And then the show went full retard. There are cars scattered ALL OVER THE PLACE yet they need to fix their own cars all the time. They're always low on gas, why not drive to a deserted gas station and pump all that juice out of there and put it in containers? And why do you keep going back and forth between this forest and that highway in the same area, getting attacked by zambies all the time? JUST DRIVE THE FUCK AWAY to a far away forest high in the middle of nowhere and start a fucking life.

Then there's the terribad drama of the second season. The back and forth arguments on the same goddamn issues with all. those. Jack faces...

SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.

This isn't about nit picking, it's about being annoyed by little things or illogical things in shows that are supposed to be some of the best on TV.

Tell me whether you agree with any of the issues listed above, and if you have other annoyances by other shows, please share!

I think you overestimate the amount of people Winterfell is supposed to have. You're not wrong, obviously GoT has fewer extras to work with than an epic motion picture, but the Winterfell scene in particular - that place was almost undefended, and it's not a city, it's a castle. Robert himself comments, upon arriving there (in the book) "Gods Ned, where are all your people?"

Anyway, I particularly have an issue with network TV. I tried watching V, since I was a fan of the original miniseries, and man, was the plot-writing holey. A lot of the times, shows with an epic scope like that keep things ridiculously small. Like, these people should be making an army, but because it's a TV show, it's the same five people going everywhere, risking their skins, and surprise surprise, they always stretched to the brink.

Get a proper bike and all this will be solved! =P

its like with the simpsons. i mean they're yellow... people are not yellow. and they only have 3 fingers, people have 4 fingers.

and 24... why does nobody ever go to the toilet or brush their hair.

@Bell_End said:

its like with the simpsons. i mean they're yellow... people are not yellow. and they only have 3 fingers, people have 4 fingers.

and 24... why does nobody ever go to the toilet or brush their hair.

I always assumed Jack was just pissing himself while he was running.

Also how did Wile E. Coyote survive all those falls off cliffs and dynamite explosions?

Well...somebody should go and watch Breaking Bad right this instant. Seriously OP you will love it- it has none of the flaws of the aforementioned TV shows.

Newsroom is to idealistic for me. Nobody acts like that, such a bad show.

If HBO would fill the cities with more people, production cost would skyrocket. It doesn't bother me at all, we've come a long way from the cardboard cutout 'planets' from Star Trek/TNG

I'm just going to reiterate that Winterfell is a castle, not a city.

@Moreau_MD said:

Well...somebody should go and watch Breaking Bad right this instant. Seriously OP you will love it- it has none of the flaws of the aforementioned TV shows.

Sure it does. I think it's the best thing on television right now, but the way the OP is picking these other shows apart, he could find some of that stuff in Breaking Bad too if he tried.

Only seen GoT and TWD of those. Kind of agree with you on GoT, locations do seem very small, but that's down to the budget (which is not as through-the-roof as you might guess) and it's not a huge detractor for me. Mismanagement of fuel is just a drop in the ocean of the so-bad-it's-funny TWD, but that's an angry nerd rant for another day.

Breaking Bad is definitely a show that has a very realistic environment. Feels very natural. Of course there are comic-booky events that happen, but I like that stuff when used for emphasis and think that it gives the show a mystical, legendary feel.

Never understood why people want to see Jack Bauer use the bathroom. I guess it might be kind of funny.

You should watch The Wire.

@BulletproofMonk said:

You should watch The Wire.

ah, but have you noticed they never tie their shoe laces in the wire.

dexter was great from s1 to s4, now its so bad that i just watch it for the lulz O_O

Man, definition of nitpicky

@Veektarius: @Revan_NL: @Servbot24: I guess it's a budget thing for most cities, and an actual characteristic of Winterfell as you said. But then, how is Winterfell almost an empire on it's own if it's a castle? What, is the entirety of the north (that is ruled by the Starks) called Winterfell? Is it the entire province?

@Moreau_MD said:

Well...somebody should go and watch Breaking Bad right this instant. Seriously OP you will love it- it has none of the flaws of the aforementioned TV shows.

I love Breaking Bad, can't wait for season 5.

@frankfartmouth said:

@Moreau_MD said:

Well...somebody should go and watch Breaking Bad right this instant. Seriously OP you will love it- it has none of the flaws of the aforementioned TV shows.

Sure it does. I think it's the best thing on television right now, but the way the OP is picking these other shows apart, he could find some of that stuff in Breaking Bad too if he tried.

I'm not picking anything apart, when I watch a TV show I wanna enjoy myself, not write down notes. Those are things I've noticed that have either broken my immersion or confused me and made me lose interest.

Can anyone shed some light on the Boardwalk Empire question? I thought it was a popular show!

For my two cents I'd say that (apart from budget) keeping GoT small keeps it more character focused, it'd be hugely distracting if the main characters were surrounded by crowds of people all the time. And as pointed out, Winterfell is just a castle, and a depleted one now that Rob marched south.

Having said all that, I do agree with the Walking Dead criticisms, I mean, what the fuck are they doing? But you know, DRAMA! and shit.

The Walking Dead is a very flawed show indeed, yet I still manage to extract enjoyment out of it every episode. Maybe it's just because I love zombies. I dunno. Hopefully season 3 sees some more undead and less bad drama. And also the demise of Carl and Lori, the two most insufferable characters on the show.

Have you seen LOST?

"This isn't nitpicking, it's -inserts the very definition of nitpicking-"

But TV by definition is gonna be stupid, it's made so literally anyone can understand it, to attract the largest audience.

@AhmadMetallic: Based on the fact I only watch TV when I am to out of it to do any thing else I really don't care. In truth I almost purposely don't watch any of those shows because people have built them up way to much for me. But on the other had I watch kind of trashy TV like all the shows the USA network puts out. Or you could do what I do and just watch old cartoons from the 90's.

@AhmadMetallic said:

@Veektarius: @Revan_NL: @Servbot24: I guess it's a budget thing for most cities, and an actual characteristic of Winterfell as you said. But then, how is Winterfell almost an empire on it's own if it's a castle? What, is the entirety of the north (that is ruled by the Starks) called Winterfell? Is it the entire province?

In the beginning of the series, the vast majority of the other houses in the North have sworn fealty to House Stark (House Karstark, House Manderly, House Mormont, House Umber, House Bolton, and many more). Winterfell is only one castle, but the Starks have command over most of the other castles and families in the north.

The Game of Thrones thing is definitely a nitpick, but a somewhat valid one. It's tv man. Your gonna have a small population for every place not New York. And in New York you might see a lot of people, but only 7 - 10 of 'em are ever gonna get to actually talk. And yeah, Winterfell is a castle, and I guess the North is just the North. He's King of the North, after all.

It's been so long since I saw the first season of Boardwalk Empire that I can't help you except to say, TV budgets being what they are those 7 - 10 actors who do speak, or in HBO's case it might be more like 12 - 20 actors who do speak, are used over and over rather than spending money on a new actor and establishing a new character and all that. If that kinda stuff bugs you then, well I don't know.

The other 2 shows you talked about are just kinda dumb shows. It's easy to pick apart dumb shows. Because they are dumb.

For the Tyrion speech part, I think that area (the mudgate) was only a small part of the seige, which is why it seemed so small. The rest (about Game of Thrones) is spot on, especially Winterfell. The only time it felt truly big was in the first episode when the King arrived. As others pointed out though, it's less a problem in design and moreso a problem of costs.

• I won't talk about The Walking Dead because that show is such a goddamned mess. I wonder what half the audience is watching because there are still so many people that think that show is deep. It's okay to like it, because we all like shitty things sometimes, but that show is ridiculous.
• I enjoy Boardwalk Empire, but it can be pretty boring too? For a show about big-time criminals, it can be pretty fucking boring. I was almost about to give up on it, but the second half of the second season really picked up.
• I also had that problem with Game of Thrones, but I got over it. The battle at King's Landing was kind of anti-climatic and hard to follow. They blew up all those ships, and for a second they made it seem like King's Landing had the advantage, but no. It's cool, there were a bunch more guys in waiting. Maybe that was the point -- the viewer being in the dark -- but I would've liked to have a better idea of what was going on.

I don't overthink TV, its all bullshit when it comes down to it. Some is just less smelly.

TV is meant to be entertaining, not logical, perfect, or real. No one would pay to watch a perfect true to life tv show that was 100% realistic. The fact that shows about real life homicide detectives don't get even 25% of the ratings these shows do should tell you something about valuing realism and logic over entertainment and fun when it comes to tv.

Watch mad men the wire and breaking bad problem solved

I've only watched Game of Thrones, out of that list of shows.  The only time that the lack of people has really bothered me is during the Battle of Blackwater, where it kind of felt like 4o or so guys running around on a beach.  I take the same attitude about it that I would if I were watching a play, wherein large events must sometimes be extrapolated based upon the less grand happenings on stage.  I agree, that it's something they should have worked on, but I imagine it's difficult to pull off that kind of sense of scale on a show that has to be filmed and out in less than a year.
 
I also think there are some instances in which the opposite is true, and the world feels fairly alive and busy.  Specifically, I feel the camps are thoroughly occupied and active, as well as King's Landing during scenes in the commoner's areas, like when Ned visits Gendry, or when Tyrion hears the guy calling him a demon monkey.

dexter was great from s1 to s4, now its so bad that i just watch it for the lulz O_O

@AhmadMetallic said:

@Veektarius: @Revan_NL: @Servbot24: I guess it's a budget thing for most cities, and an actual characteristic of Winterfell as you said. But then, how is Winterfell almost an empire on it's own if it's a castle? What, is the entirety of the north (that is ruled by the Starks) called Winterfell? Is it the entire province?

I believe the province is just called "The North". Winterfell is the castle.

I would rather watch a good TV show than any film.

@Voxel said:

Have you seen LOST?

Lost, I feel, is the only show that truly revolved around mystery and keeping the viewer completely confused and at loss yet completely addicted and intrigued. I believe that show pulled that contradicting combination off masterfully and therefore I don't judge it for those 'flaws', but rather commend it!

@MikkaQ said:

"This isn't nitpicking, it's -inserts the very definition of nitpicking-"

I thought nit picking meant when you go after the little details out of desperate desire to bash something, not when those little details actually disrupt your enjoyment even though you had the best intentions to enjoy yourself.

@Karkarov said:

TV is meant to be entertaining, not logical, perfect, or real. No one would pay to watch a perfect true to life tv show that was 100% realistic.

Some illogical stuff gets rather irritating when logic is being sacrificed for 'entertainment' purposes, and very often so.

@BraveToaster said:

Boardwalk Empire: I think that the whole structure of Nucky's "army" was beginning to crumble. Loyalties were tested and people couldn't stand being treated like shit. You've got to understand that these people are criminals, and most of them will switch sides as much as they switch underwear.

Very good point. I now feel like returning to that episode, thanks :P

Also I recommend that you give Person of Interest another shot, the actor's blandness literally becomes the biggest appeal of the show when shit gets real emotional and complex. The first 3-4 episodes are a bit slow and cold, but as you go on it really transforms into a brilliant series.

They explained the gas thing in the first season of The Walking Dead. Everyone has already looted the gas stations, and there is no one left to refill it.

The Walking Dead has far bigger problems than just why don't they go to gas stations.

You're giving The Walking Dead wayyyy too much credit. That show was pure shit straight after the first episode, season one.

If your picking on the gas situation from the walking dead, then you need to review it better.

How about the part where that one guys wife tricks him into shooting his best friend, and then gets totally pissed at him when he dose. or how about the fact that they keep getting head shots.

@AhmadMetallic: Letting little things bother you then complaining about them is nitpicking. It's not out of a desperate desire to bash something because you can nitpick at franchises you love. In fact, that's often why people do it.

Nucky having no actual power is my problem with that show,he needs henchmen. But all he has is words.

And winterfell doesn't really have many people, even in the books its not described as bustling. It's really just the home of the starks, theres towns outside where people actually live. Its a castle and nothing more.

If you're gonna nitpick about something in Game of Thrones, you should nitpick how typically short the pauses are between lines.

The Walking Dead is bullshit. Nobody looks that good after two months without showering. I WOULD KNOW.

yeah, tv shows suck now.

you know what grinds my gears on tv shows. when the first season is great, then the second season is alright, and then the third seasons sucks and the rest of the shows suck.

@Dagbiker said:

If your picking on the gas situation from the walking dead, then you need to review it better.

How about the part where that one guys wife tricks him into shooting his best friend, and then gets totally pissed at him when he dose. or how about the fact that they keep getting head shots.

Ugh, I hate Laurie so much. And instead people decide to bitch and complain about Skylar White from Breaking Bad. At least she is somewhat sympathetic, and actually comes close to resembling a realistic human being.

The Walking Dead has just gotten worse the longer I watched it, so many problems with character development and pacing just cut your losses with that one, your time is worth more.

That said I'll join the chorus of people saying you should watch the Wire, Mad Men, Breaking Bad and hell I'll throw Justified in there not on the same level as those other shows but it's still pretty great.

It's a matter of budget. GoT needs to film expensive special effects (many of which you would only notice by their absence) to be convincing.

@Bell_End said:

@BulletproofMonk said:

You should watch The Wire.

ah, but have you noticed they never tie their shoe laces in the wire.

hahah

@BulletproofMonk said:

You should watch The Wire.

Yes. Everything you hear about the quality of that show is 100% true, and then some. It's seriously some of the best written drama I've ever seen across any form of media.

Just watch Heroes and Breaking Bad and get down with your bad self.

@Hizang said:

Just watch Heroes and Breaking Bad and get down with your bad self.

Did you really just put Heroes in the same category as Breaking Bad, and as an example of television that will not make this @AhmadMetallic lose his mind? If GoT already bothers him, the constant "awesome battles offscreen, you guys!" will surely give him an aneurysm.

@AhmadMetallic: Lack of people in GoT backgrounds is indeed a budget thing. Even the Battle of Blackwater didn't look like the huge war it was on the page, b/c the cost of reproducing that would be astronomical. Would have loved to see a Helm's Deep type battle, but HBO does not have movie studio cash. It's just something fans of the show have to live with.