Using the phrase "A steep learning curve" CORRECTLY :)

One of my professors brought up a very interesting point regarding the phrase "Steep learning curve" that is used quite often in videogame terminology. It always pisses him off when he hears people talking about having a hard time due to the "Steep learning curve". According to him, the steepness of the learning curve is actually a measure of how easy it is to learn something. In other words, the shallower a curve, the harder it is to learn that operation. 
 

One of my professors brought up a very interesting point regarding the phrase "Steep learning curve" that is used quite often in videogame terminology. It always pisses him off when he hears people talking about having a hard time due to the "Steep learning curve". According to him, the steepness of the learning curve is actually a measure of how easy it is to learn something. In other words, the shallower a curve, the harder it is to learn that operation. 
 

But the expression is used outside of the mathemathical/vector realm , then again I could be wrong

I approve of your pedantry :o
 
But, I guess the problem is balancing out communication with correctness. For example, I would never say "hippopotami". There's no point in saying "this game has a shallow learning curve" if no one understands what you mean :(

Replace "performance" with "skill" (the difference being that when measuring performance, one has to consider the game's fluctuating difficulty level, whereas when measuring skill, one doesn't; that is to say, if the game gets harder as you get more skilled, the performance line will be flat -- the skill line, however, will point upwards, as it actually shows learning), and the steep curve represents something where you learn a lot at the beginning, (like Demon's Souls), while the shallow one represents something where you learn little in the beginning, and a lot in the end (I don't think I've ever played a game like that), and a flat would represent a game where you never get better (like the Prince of Persia reboot).

To me it means you need to learn more in a short amount of time - ie a steep learning curve. If a game has a steep learning curve, it expects you to learn a lot, fast, rather than introducing ideas and concepts gradually.

I disagree, the curve GETS steep. so while it may start as a cakewalk, it eventually gets to where you've got a sheer face to climb and all you have is running shoes on.

" To me it means you need to learn more in a short amount of time - ie a steep learning curve. If a game has a steep learning curve, it expects you to learn a lot, fast, rather than introducing ideas and concepts gradually. "

No, "steep learning curve" is still a correct term for reasons that users are stating in this thread.  Hard to grasp its concept and controls in the beginning, but easier to surmount as time progresses.  The way you demonstrated it is a different, but perhaps unpopular way of describing it.

The problem is that the term isn't being used in a mathematical sense. For one we don't know if the curve if linear, or if learning is a function of time (or the other way around) or a host of other things. OP you're correct if you make the assumptions you did about the curve itself but I don't think it's fair to assume anything mathematical when the people we're talking about aren't using the term in the mathematical sense in the first place...

I love it when the pedant kids try to be intelligent and demonstrate complete ignorance of the subject.  Especially when they use the phrase "my professor said..."
 
The application of "steep learning curve" for games is frequently used correctly.  It doesn't refer to the nature of the curve, only the amount of difficulty/time.  Both of the curves in you example can be considered "steep" overall.  They are the same in that respect.  One is initially steep and the other is eventually steep.  A line from the origin point to the intersection would also be equally steep overall.
 
See, the word "steep" does not describe the nature of the curve.  It refers to slope, which clearly is not a constant in a curve; the difference is the rate of change.  From origin to intersection, your two curves have the same average slope.   

 Either your professor is an idiot, or you should pay more attention in class.  That, or you could always try independent thought. 

Your professor is a nerd.

" I love it when the pedant kids try to be intelligent and demonstrate complete ignorance of the subject.  Especially when they use the phrase "my professor said..."  The application of "steep learning curve" for games is frequently used correctly.  It doesn't refer to the nature of the curve, only the amount of difficulty/time.  Both of the curves in you example can be considered "steep" overall.  They are the same in that respect.  One is initially steep and the other is eventually steep.  A line from the origin point to the intersection would also be equally steep overall. See, the word "steep" does not describe the nature of the curve.  It refers to slope, which clearly is not a constant in a curve; the difference is the rate of change.  From origin to intersection, your two curves have the same average slope.     Either your professor is an idiot, or you should pay more attention in class.  That, or you could always try independent thought.  "

When people talk about a difficulty curve, I see it as exactly that. A difficulty curve, not a performance curve. If people called it a steep performance curve, you would be correct, but they don't and you are not.

Over time, the game becomes more difficult, not less. It's a steep difficulty curve.
 
Is performance a proper math term? Yes. Is difficulty? Not so much. In that sense, shallow performance curve is the mathematically correct way to state it. However, steep difficulty curve means the exact same thing in this context, is logical to follow, and the layman understands it.
 
edit:
 
Oh wait, you mean 'learning curve' not 'difficulty curve'. Then yeah, you are correct since 'learning' can mean one thing or the other, so substituting it with performance is logical. You could replace it with 'difficulty' though.

" @SeriouslyNow:    Fucking moron.    "Steep" and "shallow" are not antonyms.  "Steepness" is assessed by y/x.  In this case, the two are the same.  Take a fucking jr. high math class.  "

" To me it means you need to learn more in a short amount of time - ie a steep learning curve. If a game has a steep learning curve, it expects you to learn a lot, fast, rather than introducing ideas and concepts gradually. "

I'm not going to worry about what this apparently controversial curve looks like. My issue here is clarity. If you go around saying that Peggle has a steeper learning curve than EVE Online, people won't understand what you're talking about.

The problem is you picked the "steep" part of the shallow curve and the "shallow" part of the steep one. 

" @SeriouslyNow:  I don't know anything about ChristOnIce or Super Meat Boy, but I have to disagree with you and the OP. Both lines in OP's graph have steep learning curves. Both lines ask you to absorb a lot of information in a short amount of time at some point. The only difference is how far into the experience you hit that point. "

Super Meat Boy's learning curve is so fucking steep because it needs to get 3 miles in the air by the end.

" but that just means that more than half of your journey to the peak is easier. "

" If you take that analogy and apply to a learning process this describes a reasonably gentle learning excercise where you are allowed to absorb enough information to get a handle on things and then learn more difficult specifics to become expert in the thing you're learning. "

I considered this also, but I don't think it's fair because the extra learning you do over the course of playing skews the curve. If you are absorbing extra information while playing that the game doesn't require you to pick up on, then your learning curve would not look like the line from OP's graph. It would be closer to a straight line.
 
Edit: Also, let me repeat that I am not talking about Super Meat Boy at all. I don't know anything about how the difficulty in that game is thrown at you. I'm speaking in general terms.

For most games it's the initial part of the curve that matters, since that's when we don't know anything about the game and are just figuring it out. Games that are initially very steep may have the effect of turning off some gamers. Of course, games with a shallow initial curve might also turn people off. I guess what I'm saying is that perception of steepness/shallowness really depends on what the ideal learning curve is, even if that ideal is known only generally. I might argue that games like Portal and Final Fantasy XIII had learning curves that were way too shallow, not giving us relevant game mechanics until we were, essentially, overprepared for them. EVE Online, on the other hand, seems to be exponential in it's curve...
 
"The mountain has a gentle curve which starts at an acute angle from the ground and moves gradually eventually changing to an obtuse angle from the ground to a peak at it's tip.  That's not a steep mountain because the energy you would need to expend to reach the midway point wouldn't be excessive."
 
But that's not how people look at mountains. As a novice climber, I'd say both mountains were pretty damned steep. If the curve is too gentle at the beginning, it won't adequately prepare you for the steep climb at the end. In this case, I have to agree with SeriouslyNow. Any game that has a section where a lot must be learned in a short amount of time has a steep learning curve. In fact, it might even be worse for a gamer if the curve is late in the game, having invested time in it thinking the curve was gentle, only to be aggravated at the end by a game with a very high difficulty. I'd much rather have an initially steep curve tapering off.
 
I'll say that I've never seen a usage of the term "steep learning curve" that was incorrect given this perspective.

Guys, the area under the curve?  Consider that filled in.  That's how much knowledge you need to be competitive in the game as the game progresses.  A steep learning curve requires you to learn everything right away, and keep that knowledge throughout.  A gradual learning curve slowly teaches you things, until at the very end when you have to use all that knowledge.  It's really not that difficult.

I hate it when I hear people in podcasts pronounce it nitch - it's niche, the word has a latin root, it's pronounced neesh. Pronouncing it nitch only shows how much time these people spend online instead of talking in the real world. 
 
O god, I'm turning into my father.

" O god, I'm turning into my father. "

I could care less about saying things correclty. Sayng things correctly is overrated. In fatc, evne typnng thigns correctyl is ovverated.  
 
(cough, sarcasm, cough).  
 
I think the reason why people say it the way they do is because the word "steep" gives off a feeling of difficulty, whereas shallow doesn't. 

Joining the chorus of those disagreeing.  Your professor fucks things up by putting difficulty on the y axis instead of amount of learning required.  It doesn't sound like SUper Meat Boy has a steep learning curve, though...  there isn't a lot to learn and it starts out pretty easy.

Your professor is mis-using semantics.  Steep learning curve means the Y axis is attributed to difficulty.  Games with a steep learning curve get difficult earlier than games with a shallow learning curve.  That makes them hard.  Your graph does not represent what gamers mean by a steep learning curve.  Take that to your prof and watch him squirm.
 
EDIT: What I think your professor is saying is that with a 'steep learning curve' you reach optimum performance sooner.  So he is saying that long term- a game that has a so-called 'steep learning curve' will be easier and more rewarding.  Yes, that is true.  But take a game like Eve Online.  That game is generally considered to have a steep learning curve.  When you start playing the game you are thrown into difficult situations almost immediately.  The sheer challenge of this turns many people off as they consider the game to be just too hard.  However, if they were to stick with it the game would be more rewarding more quickly than a similar genre game that has a shallow learning curve (where it isn't so difficult to play early on)
 
However, with a 'shallow learning curve' a player risks the chance of never reaching his or her full potential because they are not challenged enough.
 
 
Take THAT to your prof.  By the way- this is not an original thought by me.  I can't cite it but I know I've read that before.  That's the general explanation given for why sticking with a game with a steep learning curve can be more rewarding than a similar game with a shallow learning curve.

" EDIT: What I think your professor is saying is that with a 'steep learning curve' you reach optimum performance sooner.  So he is saying that long term- a game that has a so-called 'steep learning curve' will be easier and more rewarding.  Yes, that is true.  But take a game like Eve Online.  That game is generally considered to have a steep learning curve.  When you start playing the game you are thrown into difficult situations almost immediately.  The sheer challenge of this turns many people off as they consider the game to be just too hard.  However, if they were to stick with it the game would be more rewarding more quickly than a similar genre game that has a shallow learning curve (where it isn't so difficult to play early on)  However, with a 'shallow learning curve' a player risks the chance of never reaching his or her full potential because they are not challenged enough.   "

" To me it means you need to learn more in a short amount of time - ie a steep learning curve. If a game has a steep learning curve, it expects you to learn a lot, fast, rather than introducing ideas and concepts gradually. "

Your teacher is stupid for misunderstanding what people mean by steep learning curve and you're stupid for parroting him instead of correcting him. 
If we're taking graphs then; 

Or you could all just use another word for it. "This game is fucking hard", "This game is easy to learn but hard to master", "Soda pops and Screwdrivers".

People aren't using mathematical terms, they're using descriptive words. Pedantic people like your teacher is why Anti-Intellectualism exists. "

I'm still not convinced. I need to see more graphs. A pie chart would really help. A 3-D pie chart would seal the deal.

" I hate it when I hear people in podcasts pronounce it nitch - it's niche, the word has a latin root, it's pronounced neesh. Pronouncing it nitch only shows how much time these people spend online instead of talking in the real world.  O god, I'm turning into my father. "

I'm gonna ignore all the crap floating in this thread and just say that you've opened my eyes, young Venom2112.

"

"

" Joining the chorus of those disagreeing.  Your professor fucks things up by putting difficulty on the y axis instead of amount of learning required.  It doesn't sound like SUper Meat Boy has a steep learning curve, though...  there isn't a lot to learn and it starts out pretty easy. "