What Happened This Week?!

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ExplodingTuba

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During this morning's "Bombin' the A.M. With Scoops and the Wolf" Patrick and Alex both talk around some extremely bad thing that the Internet has done, mentioning Phil Fish and some other nebulous thing. I follow a lot of game developers and other people in the industry on Twitter and there has just been this extremely negative vibe going around, without anyone linking or posting what's actually happening. Can anyone please just send me a link to a story or two, or point me in the right subreddit, because all of this negative talk and now the hash tag campaign "#welovegamedevs" has me just really confused and ever-more frustrated.

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Make_Me_Mad

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We actually literally can't explain any of it because it will get moderated on sight. We've ended up in a situation where a subject is taboo, but no one can talk about it to let anyone know it's taboo. I'll send you a PM in a bit.

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BabyChooChoo

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#3  Edited By BabyChooChoo

Google Zoe Quinn. Narrow results down to the past week. Throw a dart at your screen and you'll probably land on exactly what you want to know. Most of the shit that went down this week is related to that entire clusterfuck in some way.

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jimbozu

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A couple of things actually happened, but mostly there were some perceived "scandals" involving games journalists or developers that resulted in a lot of internet outrage towards different people. It was ridiculous and shouldn't be news apart from the fact that random people on the internet decided that the "appropriate" response to these scandals were personal attacks on the people involved with them.

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Turambar

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#5  Edited By Turambar

The only thing newsworthy at the moment out of that entire shit storm is someone invoking DMCA to take down a youtube video someone made that was critical of them on grounds that the still image of their game taken from it's steam page was theft.

Is any of that other stuff true, or even matters? Who knows. The above is kind of shitty though no matter how you look at it.

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Petiew

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I'm sure this will get modded and/or deleted almost instantly but I'm actually very dissapointed that most of the gaming press covering this have jumped instantly to the defence of these well known developers and condemned anyone complaining as a jerk or an asshole.

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ExplodingTuba

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Ok. Well after some quick Google searches I've found enough news stories and very awkward images to at least get a basic understanding of what's going on. Thanks for everyone who replied. Again, wasn't looking to try and stoke the flames of this controversy or anything. I was genuinely just really confused with everyone talking around the issue while never actually saying what was going on. As someone who wasn't on the ground floor of this, everyone talking around the controversy was just extremely aggravating. Thanks again duders!

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MikkaQ

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Google Zoe Quinn. Narrow results down to the past week. Throw a dart at your screen and you'll probably land on exactly what you want to know. Most of the shit that went down this week is related to that entire clusterfuck in some way.

PSA: Don't throw darts at your screen.

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paradigm87

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I get that many devs and journalists are upset about all of this but it's sad when you see people you respect stoop down to level of the people they're fighting against. I've lost a lot of respect this past week for everyone involved in this mess across the entire board.

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HelloDanni

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@petiew said:

I'm sure this will get modded and/or deleted almost instantly but I'm actually very dissapointed that most of the gaming press covering this have jumped instantly to the defence of these well known developers and condemned anyone complaining as a jerk or an asshole.

To be fair, very little of it has been discussed in a respectful or constructive way. It's an extremely polarizing topic where people on both sides feel pretty passionately about their opinions and it escalates very quickly.

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impartialgecko

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It's quickly degraded into a shit-slinging match between people I used to respect but now view with some suspicion and the people who were probably going to mess with the first party anyway for kicks.

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Make_Me_Mad

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@petiew said:

I'm sure this will get modded and/or deleted almost instantly but I'm actually very dissapointed that most of the gaming press covering this have jumped instantly to the defence of these well known developers and condemned anyone complaining as a jerk or an asshole.

To be fair, very little of it has been discussed in a respectful or constructive way. It's an extremely polarizing topic where people on both sides feel pretty passionately about their opinions and it escalates very quickly.

Assuming there are two sides to this, instead of hundreds and thousands of varying opinions, is why it's so damn hard to have a conversation about it. If everyone's arguing against faceless conglomerations, instead of just talking to other people, then there's never gonna be anything close to progress or understanding or even consideration.

Ok. Well after some quick Google searches I've found enough news stories and very awkward images to at least get a basic understanding of what's going on. Thanks for everyone who replied. Again, wasn't looking to try and stoke the flames of this controversy or anything. I was genuinely just really confused with everyone talking around the issue while never actually saying what was going on. As someone who wasn't on the ground floor of this, everyone talking around the controversy was just extremely aggravating. Thanks again duders!

Tell me about it; it's arguably just as frustrating watching people have to ask repeatedly because every time it does get explained, it just gets deleted. I've had to send so many PMs to explain this lately that it's making my head hurt... I oughta just save the bare bones details in a notepad or something and keep it handy.

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ViciousBearMauling

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@mikkaq said:

@babychoochoo said:

Google Zoe Quinn. Narrow results down to the past week. Throw a dart at your screen and you'll probably land on exactly what you want to know. Most of the shit that went down this week is related to that entire clusterfuck in some way.

PSA: Don't throw darts at your screen.

No Caption Provided

Or use suction cup darts

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Freshbandito

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reading about it just kinda leaves all sides involved sounding childish and losing respect. Phil Fish's tweets about cancelling projects cracked me up though, how do you tweet that and then be suprised that people like goading you into some kinda social media nerd-hulk state?

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Euler_Riemann_Zeta

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Ok. Well after some quick Google searches I've found enough news stories and very awkward images to at least get a basic understanding of what's going on. Thanks for everyone who replied. Again, wasn't looking to try and stoke the flames of this controversy or anything. I was genuinely just really confused with everyone talking around the issue while never actually saying what was going on. As someone who wasn't on the ground floor of this, everyone talking around the controversy was just extremely aggravating. Thanks again duders!

Yeah, it was really confusing today when I first saw what was happening. I still don't know exactly what happened, but it doesn't seem like level headed discussion is the norm. Maybe it shouldn't be expected, especially with the allegations as they are (allegations, mind you). Hopefully this will have a concrete resolution, if only so that I don't have to see some of these horrible tweets and stuff anymore.

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Sinusoidal

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That this whole thing is getting any kind of media attention is just staggeringly inane.

I'm going to go play some video games and just forget about it now.

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randombattle

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@freshbandito said:

reading about it just kinda leaves all sides involved sounding childish and losing respect. Phil Fish's tweets about cancelling projects cracked me up though, how do you tweet that and then be suprised that people like goading you into some kinda social media nerd-hulk state?

It is childish regardless of your opinion on the subject or not. It seems like everyone just takes the fact that they don't agree with someone else as clear signs to insult them. You have people in the game press insulting people just as bad as the usual youtube common and threatening to ruin people's lives for being rude on the internet. For people who call themselves journalists they sure don't follow the spj code of ethics.

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Turambar

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#18  Edited By Turambar

@sinusoidal said:

That this whole thing is getting any kind of media attention is just staggeringly inane.

I'm going to go play some video games and just forget about it now.

It's not. Just the usual suspects making a lot of noise.

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Blu3V3nom07

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First rule about This Week: Don't talk about This Week. Second rule about This Week: Don't Talk about This Week.

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Branthog

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Remember the thing that happened last month, where someone in gaming was accused of something hideous by an anonymous person on a tumblr blog and everyone lost their shit accusing them of being guilty on the basis of an anonymous internet post? Well, that again, but a different target.

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IcyEyes

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I found out about this "scandal" thanks to an Alex tweet. The fact that articles in defense of the party are fine, but any criticism is censored on the grounds that it's a "personal matter, and not news", is quite disconcerting.

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bushpusherr

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#22  Edited By bushpusherr

@petiew said:

I'm sure this will get modded and/or deleted almost instantly but I'm actually very dissapointed that most of the gaming press covering this have jumped instantly to the defence of these well known developers and condemned anyone complaining as a jerk or an asshole.

It's not just "people complaining" that has the press/dev's (and many bystanders) upset. It was a full internet mob harassment campaign, complete with the hacking (twitter, skype, etc) and release of private data of a number of developers who spoke out against the abuse. Whatever minuscule point of debate or genuine concern/criticism that might have existed at the center of this controversy, it was immediately buried in horrific, incendiary harassment.

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Zeik

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#23  Edited By Zeik

I have no idea what this is about, and although part of me has some kind of morbid curiousity to go find out, if I've learned anything from the Internet over these past few years it's that I'm probably better off not knowing. So I think I'm going to remain blissfully ignorant.

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RonGalaxy

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Nothing good. And it just keeps on piling up from every corner of the earth. All the gossip, the wickedness, the senseless cruelty society has crafted in the past few weeks... It's making me feel jaded and tired.

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Turambar

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#25  Edited By Turambar

@bushpusherr said:
@petiew said:

I'm sure this will get modded and/or deleted almost instantly but I'm actually very dissapointed that most of the gaming press covering this have jumped instantly to the defence of these well known developers and condemned anyone complaining as a jerk or an asshole.

It's not just "people complaining" that has the press/dev's (and many bystanders) upset. It was a full internet mob harassment campaign, complete with the hacking (twitter, skype, etc) and release of private data of a number of developers who spoke out against the abuse. Whatever minuscule point of debate or genuine concern/criticism that might have existed at the center of this controversy, it was immediately buried in horrific, incendiary harassment.

We don't even know whether that is actually true, funnily enough. Plenty of he said she said, plenty of You're lying (I never hit you), not enough you're tearing me apart Lisa.

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bushpusherr

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@turambar said:

@bushpusherr said:

@petiew said:

I'm sure this will get modded and/or deleted almost instantly but I'm actually very dissapointed that most of the gaming press covering this have jumped instantly to the defence of these well known developers and condemned anyone complaining as a jerk or an asshole.

It's not just "people complaining" that has the press/dev's (and many bystanders) upset. It was a full internet mob harassment campaign, complete with the hacking (twitter, skype, etc) and release of private data of a number of developers who spoke out against the abuse. Whatever minuscule point of debate or genuine concern/criticism that might have existed at the center of this controversy, it was immediately buried in horrific, incendiary harassment.

We don't even know whether that is actually true, funnily enough.

I'm not inclined to doubt it.

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Turambar

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@turambar said:

@bushpusherr said:

@petiew said:

I'm sure this will get modded and/or deleted almost instantly but I'm actually very dissapointed that most of the gaming press covering this have jumped instantly to the defence of these well known developers and condemned anyone complaining as a jerk or an asshole.

It's not just "people complaining" that has the press/dev's (and many bystanders) upset. It was a full internet mob harassment campaign, complete with the hacking (twitter, skype, etc) and release of private data of a number of developers who spoke out against the abuse. Whatever minuscule point of debate or genuine concern/criticism that might have existed at the center of this controversy, it was immediately buried in horrific, incendiary harassment.

We don't even know whether that is actually true, funnily enough.

I'm not inclined to doubt it.

Group 1 says you hacked me. Group 2 says we didn't and couldn't have and here's why, is about what it amounts to. *shrug*

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Nodima

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A bunch of poorly written accusations were made (I wish I could have the thirty minutes I spent reading an imgur graphic about Wizardchan's honor back, but I suppose I now have that sub forum to idly marvel at the concept of in my most bored hours) and then a bunch of well written defenses were published. I agree with those who think it has very little to do with video games and the primary outlet being fingered as a wrongdoer in this situation very clearly outlined why the "games journalism is corrupt and THAT is the story" angle is utter bullshit.

I'm not surprised by the accusations, I wasn't aware of anything at the time but certain interactions during GDC live shows made me curious. I'm just surprised that really all it takes to stir the entire video games internet into a shit storm is one poorly written blog by a clearly less than irrefutable source.

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SomeDeliCook

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Vinny announced he is having another kid. Ignore any other bullshit happening, thats the important thing this week related to Giantbomb

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neoepoch

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#31  Edited By neoepoch

Stupidity everywhere, and then Vivian James. Oh and Vinny's new kid. Gotta take victories somewhere.

@nodima

There was also a lot of nastiness at the Game Jam this year, which has a lot of interesting tidbits and was basically ruined. And the whole fiasco with The Fine Young Capitalists, who are still struggling to get past pretty baseless accusations towards them.

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bushpusherr

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@turambar: Try pulling up Polytron's twitter account. It was hacked for hours and only after a flood of people flagging it at the request of Phil and some others were they finally able to get the account suspended.

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71Ranchero

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I am so sick of the entire shit show. Over 30 years playing video games and I have never been so down on what used to be a fun hobby.

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Turambar

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#34  Edited By Turambar
@neoepoch said:

Stupidity everywhere, and then Vivian James. Oh and Vinny's new kid. Gotta take victories somewhere.

Conspiracy theories abound.

Is it true? Who knows. Don't really care, and I don't really view either side (whatever sides there may be) with any more trustworthiness than the other.

I just know that I saw Adam Sessler's tweet about watching the hacking going down live with Zoe Quinn, and it was an image of them just looking at a 4chan thread on a laptop. That was pretty funny.

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Turambar

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I am so sick of the entire shit show. Over 30 years playing video games and I have never been so down on what used to be a fun hobby.

I think TotalBiscuit's take on this entire thing is the only way to walk away from it without being mentally exhausted.

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neoepoch

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@turambar:Also agreed.

@71ranchero: Agreed. This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen about games.

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Turambar

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@neoepoch: Whoops, that was actually meant to go towards @bushpusherr, but eh, it works. Also what, Vinny has another kid? I guess that's why there's a Congrats Vinny thread?

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Vinny announced he is having another kid. Ignore any other bullshit happening, thats the important thing this week related to Giantbomb

Yeah, but the scandalous part is that Vinny is naming the new kid Doritos Mountain Dew Caravella.

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Turambar

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#39  Edited By Turambar

@branthog said:

@somedelicook said:

Vinny announced he is having another kid. Ignore any other bullshit happening, thats the important thing this week related to Giantbomb

Yeah, but the scandalous part is that Vinny is naming the new kid Doritos Mountain Dew Caravella.

Rexritos Mountainmilliano Caravella.

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Euler_Riemann_Zeta

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@turambar: Yeah, I thought he explained his position well as always, even if he did get some strange flak about it.

I do admit I have a sort of morbid curiosity about the whole thing, but I can't say I'm feeling good about any of it. It's just mildly depressing. The truth does matter though, and I hope eventually we can say with certainty what happened (we probably won't get that lucky though).

But video games are great, right? And Vinny is having a baby! Hopefully this site doesn't get bogged down with all this messy stuff.

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Branthog

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#41  Edited By Branthog

@icyeyes said:

I found out about this "scandal" thanks to an Alex tweet. The fact that articles in defense of the party are fine, but any criticism is censored on the grounds that it's a "personal matter, and not news", is quite disconcerting.

That is what repulses me.

The person who was the victim of anonymous tumblr accusations last month deserved to be treated as innocent given the complete lack of actual evidence and no accountability to the anonymous accusation.

The person who was a victim of anonymous tumblr accusations this month deserved to be treated as innocent given the complete lack of actual evidence and no accountability to the anonymous accusation.

However, the way much of the gaming world (press, developers, enthusiasts, etc) reacted to the first one was to string the person up and engage in life-damaging character assassinations. To the point of two publications (the same two with staff supposedly involved in these accusations, in fact!) actually publishing long ranty character assassinations as content. The way they reacted to the second one was to form a defense force around the person and attack label anyone asking questions or showing interest in the story as woman-hating basement dwelling 4chan man-babies. Because, you know, the best way to silence people you disagree with is to drop conversation ending atom bombs on them (like finding a way to imply someone is racist, even if they're not, to shut them up).

Both situations should have been treated the same. Anonymous people making bullshit accusations on tumblr accounts should not be taken seriously and not only should the person last month and the one this month be treated as innocent (until somehow given actual evidence proving otherwise) but they should not even have to suffer the lingering questions and judgement that will always follow them around for the rest of their lives, simply because people lost their shit over anonymous tumblr posts.

I think the difference in treatment of the two people and "stories" is very revealing. Especially by the two websites involved in both situations. I feel sorry for both of the people (last month and this month) who are the victims of this bullshit. I really can't imagine how I would cope with knowing that my entire reputation is being slaughtered across the planet just because of some likely troll and muck-raker. I really can't fathom finding a way to cope with that.

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Turambar

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@euler_riemann_zeta: I honestly don't feel like the truth is actually that important when it comes to the original blog post. If it's true, one person is real shitty. If it's not true, another person is real shitty. That's about it.

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Branthog

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I just wanted to add that I am really impressed by the respect and restraint with which people are discussing this in this thread. I won't be surprised if it is deleted, but it is great to see a responsible discussion of the primary bullet points of the situations while abstaining from involving specific names and unnecessary details. I think those details and identities are the muck which bogs us down in any discussions bout these types of controversies. They result in so much personal attack and situational bias that nothing of value is derived from them. Straining out those details kind of makes for a less personal removed rationality. If gaming has to deal with this bullshit, I wish it was more like this than everything else I've been reading on the internet.

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Euler_Riemann_Zeta

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@turambar: You're right, but I guess I'm the kind of person that subconsciously always keeps that "what if" in mind whenever I think of someone. It's kind of sad really, but especially as I respect someone involved in this, I would like some closure (I know, it has nothing to do with me). But outside of my personal feelings, it probably should be left to the relevant parties to work it out themselves.

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Branthog

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@euler_riemann_zeta said:

@turambar: You're right, but I guess I'm the kind of person that subconsciously always keeps that "what if" in mind whenever I think of someone. It's kind of sad really, but especially as I respect someone involved in this, I would like some closure (I know, it has nothing to do with me). But outside of my personal feelings, it probably should be left to the relevant parties to work it out themselves.

I assume people are not guilty of something until they're proven guilty of it. I think it should be easy to dismiss both this month's controversy and last month's entirely, simply based on the complete lack of evidence and the origin of the accusations. It sets a terrifying precedent if we start accepting essentially anonymous random internet comments on tumblr blogs or twitter as something we should take seriously. The only thing that separates you or I from being innocently in the same situation is not having come across the wrong person who is so inclined and motivated as to ruin our lives.

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paradigm87

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#46  Edited By paradigm87

I wish I would have chose this week not to pay attention to video game stuff lol. You kind of expect anonymous people on the internet to act horrible and say horrible things but not so many of the journalists and devs you've been following for years and years. It really doesn't even matter if your side is right or wrong in that regard either or even if you're angry. I guess I just expect better than that and it's really depressing to be honest. Looking at twitter the past couple of days feels like watching two kids battle it out in a youtube comment section.

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development

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#47  Edited By development

Wow. That right there is why women are afraid of OkCupid.

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ArbitraryWater

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I'm still not entirely sure what is true and what isn't, but at the end of the day I'm going to side with the person being strung up by the internet lynch mob over their bloodthirsty accusers, because no one deserves this sort of treatment regardless of whatever dumb conflicts of interest may arise. I'd say I expected better of some people, but I can't help but recall the minor internet shitstorm surrounding this very website a few months ago...

I'm totally okay with this stuff being wiped off the forums if the result is less chaos. If I need to discuss this in a level-headed private PM, so be it. Better this than burning the internet down, again.

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Manhattan_Project

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@turambar said:
@neoepoch said:

Stupidity everywhere, and then Vivian James. Oh and Vinny's new kid. Gotta take victories somewhere.

Conspiracy theories abound.

Is it true? Who knows. Don't really care, and I don't really view either side (whatever sides there may be) with any more trustworthiness than the other.

I just know that I saw Adam Sessler's tweet about watching the hacking going down live with Zoe Quinn, and it was an image of them just looking at a 4chan thread on a laptop. That was pretty funny.

Actually this image has been basically proven false

The second post here sums things up pretty good.

While its not 100% that Phil didn't do this himself, its highly unlikely, just like its highly unlikely that /v/ hacked him or anyone else.

I have lost a lot of respect for all of Zoe's friends like (Phil Fish) who bashed TotalBiscuit for his take. He pretty much side stepped everything but the DMCA which he said was fucked up but also mentioned how it could have been someone trying to make Zoe look guilty. Literally the most well thought out response and because he didn't come to the defense of everything Zoe they decided he's a piece of shit.

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tomtomthepirate

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#50  Edited By tomtomthepirate

Games journalism got called out for being unprofessional in how it handles personal relationships after decades of being immune to such criticism. Game journalists have an absolute meltdown on twitter, censor their own sites. Phil Fish gets involved, nothing good comes from it. The internet at large still has no idea how to walk a delicate line of being inquisitive yet still respectful.

The gamers lose yet again.