What's the appeal on Anime (Japanese Animation)?

@AlexanderSheen said:

@believer258 said:

Also,

The translators do a damn fine job, even those who do it for free are pretty good.

By "free", do you mean a fansub? If so, take a gander at this.

There are good fansubs (HorribleSubs, Commie, gg, Mazui, etc...), and of course there are bad ones, like come on.

I answered this in the post above. Guess it's time to do an edit!

@CaLe said:

It would be like watching the Simpsons or South Park dubbed in Japanese. Not only would much of the humour be lost in translation, but it just doesn't work well, because it's a dub. The problem is only emphasised by the huge cultural difference between the West and Japan. These problems disappear when reading subtitles and listening to something in the language it was made in, or through actually learning Japanese.

I'm going a little off-topic, but I am actually pretty sure South Park is popular in Japan; they even found their own version "Oh my god, you killed Kenny! You bastards!" Since they don't have a derogatory term akin to bastard. Apparently their version is entertaining enough for them, since I've actually seen it referenced in an anime.

In a nutshell, the animated medium (regardless of origin) has more freedom than live action because it costs the same amount to portray something realistic and fantastical. Thus, animation is great for science fiction or fantasy or alternate history. In Western cultures, animation is pigeonholed as a kid's medium, and so the focus of talent is on stuff that is all-ages appropriate (see, for example, Pixar or Avatar: The Last Airbender). Adults may be able to appreciate the best stuff, but it isn't made just for them. (This seems to be becoming less the case, with popular 'adults-only' cartoons like Archer and Adult Swim series being made for my generation).

Anime is not constrained by its culture in the same way, allowing for adult material in the animated medium. Of course, Japanese culture has plenty of constraints of its own, and I think these (which I won't try to name to avoid sounding ethnocentric) contribute to why anime doesn't appeal to many Westerners. To give you some context, I'm not a fan of anime in general but I think Cowboy Bebop is an almost perfect show.

I can tolerate anime as long as it has a generally strong and well developed plot besides the fan-service BS. Stuff like Code Geass, Death Note (that one maybe takes itself a little too seriously) Steins;Gate, Higurashi and maybe others, I find enjoyable.

@believer258 said:

Riddle me this: How does a sub in English get rid of the translation problems when a dub couldn't? It's the same thing, except you're reading the lines in a sub and hearing them in a dub. He's talking about how a direct translation doesn't really work so well. He isn't talking about changing the storyline, he's talking about making the lines sound good and make sense in English - this can easily be an issue with either subs or dubs since subs deliver - or should deliver - very similar lines to the ones spoken in a dub. Some things will always get lost in translation, so unless you actually know Japanese and are watching it in Japanese, you're going to lose something in translation. Without fail, it happens every time something is translated into a different language.

Also,

The translators do a damn fine job, even those who do it for free are pretty good.

By "free", do you mean a fansub? If so, take a gander at this.

The example he gave was 'filling some chick's dead soul with light' - yeah, maybe an exaggeration, but if that was what was said in Japanese, that's how it is translated. Nothing on the translators part is wrong. And as for dubs, you would need to lean very much to the side of actually changing the translation so much that it's no longer a translation but a complete script re-write. When it's written, it can sound perfectly fine when you read it, but to have a voice actor say it, something sounds either cheesy or completely off. This seems obvious to me at least. Again, not a translation problem. Re-writing a script and translating are not the same thing.

Considering the amount of anime that has been subbed, finding those examples is not surprising. I can only speak from personal experience, and being someone who can at the very least tell if a translation is accurate or not, I'm surprised at how good fansubs are, especially after seeing so many bad movie translations from paid translators.

@EquitasInvictus said:

@CaLe said:

It would be like watching the Simpsons or South Park dubbed in Japanese. Not only would much of the humour be lost in translation, but it just doesn't work well, because it's a dub. The problem is only emphasised by the huge cultural difference between the West and Japan. These problems disappear when reading subtitles and listening to something in the language it was made in, or through actually learning Japanese.

I'm going a little off-topic, but I am actually pretty sure South Park is popular in Japan; they even found their own version "Oh my god, you killed Kenny! You bastards!" Since they don't have a derogatory term akin to bastard. Apparently their version is entertaining enough for them, since I've actually seen it referenced in an anime.

I was talking about that in particular coming from a Westerner's perspective. If we saw South Park or The Simpsons in Japanese it would inherently just feel wrong. For me, dubbed Japanese anime also just feels wrong. I wasn't saying they can't be popular though.. because there will always be people who refuse to read subtitles, or watch anything in another language.

the appeal of anime is that since it's animated, the content is exactly what the creator intends. and all this without the constraints of reality and physics.

@CaLe said:

@believer258 said:

Riddle me this: How does a sub in English get rid of the translation problems when a dub couldn't? It's the same thing, except you're reading the lines in a sub and hearing them in a dub. He's talking about how a direct translation doesn't really work so well. He isn't talking about changing the storyline, he's talking about making the lines sound good and make sense in English - this can easily be an issue with either subs or dubs since subs deliver - or should deliver - very similar lines to the ones spoken in a dub. Some things will always get lost in translation, so unless you actually know Japanese and are watching it in Japanese, you're going to lose something in translation. Without fail, it happens every time something is translated into a different language.

Also,

The translators do a damn fine job, even those who do it for free are pretty good.

By "free", do you mean a fansub? If so, take a gander at this.

The example he gave was 'filling some chick's dead soul with light' - yeah, maybe an exaggeration, but if that was what was said in Japanese, that's how it is translated. Nothing on the translators part is wrong. And as for dubs, you would need to lean very much to the side of actually changing the translation so much that it's no longer a translation but a complete script re-write. When it's written, it can sound perfectly fine when you read it, but to have a voice actor say it, something sounds either cheesy or completely off. This seems obvious to me at least. Again, not a translation problem. Re-writing a script and translating are not the same thing.

Considering the amount of anime that has been subbed, finding those examples is not surprising. I can only speak from personal experience, and being someone who can at the very least tell if a translation is accurate or not, I'm surprised at how good fansubs are, especially after seeing so many bad movie translations from paid translators.

@EquitasInvictus said:

@CaLe said:

It would be like watching the Simpsons or South Park dubbed in Japanese. Not only would much of the humour be lost in translation, but it just doesn't work well, because it's a dub. The problem is only emphasised by the huge cultural difference between the West and Japan. These problems disappear when reading subtitles and listening to something in the language it was made in, or through actually learning Japanese.

I'm going a little off-topic, but I am actually pretty sure South Park is popular in Japan; they even found their own version "Oh my god, you killed Kenny! You bastards!" Since they don't have a derogatory term akin to bastard. Apparently their version is entertaining enough for them, since I've actually seen it referenced in an anime.

I was talking about that in particular coming from a Westerner's perspective. If we saw South Park or The Simpsons in Japanese it would inherently just feel wrong. For me, dubbed Japanese anime also just feels wrong. I wasn't saying they can't be popular though.. because there will always be people who refuse to read subtitles, or watch anything in another language.

There might be a little bit more lee-way in subs as far as coming across as cheesy or hammy goes, but it's not by much. Besides, any way you slice it the script has to be rewritten to some extent. Translations have to do that in order to make sense.

Either way, I prefer dubs because I don't like reading a TV show. Besides, a good number of dubs like Full Metal Alchemist, Cowboy Bebop, and Yu Yu Hakusho are actually really, really good.

@dcgc: I love Initial D and Wangan Midnight too even though I'm not really into cars that much. But yes, there is a lot of rubbish animation to sift through to get to the good stuff just like with any other form of entertainment. Out of the anime you mentioned I highly recommend you watch Death Note. It's up there with the best as far as I'm concerned. Also if you're into music BECK is a great animation for example.

I dunno. For me, the stories are always too fantastical, the animation is usually cheap looking (I hate the way anime characters are drawn, and I hate that they're animated on 3s), and there never seems to be any emotional connection to the characters. It's just not for me. I'll take American animation and storytelling any day.

@believer258 said:

There might be a little bit more lee-way in subs as far as coming across as cheesy or hammy goes, but it's not by much. Besides, any way you slice it the script has to be rewritten to some extent. Translations have to do that in order to make sense.

Either way, I prefer dubs because I don't like reading a TV show. Besides, a good number of dubs like Full Metal Alchemist, Cowboy Bebop, and Yu Yu Hakusho are actually really, really good.

It could be just a preference thing and if you have never seen the original and just watch a dub and are happy with it, that's great. I don't think translations for the purpose of dubbing should ever be the same as a subtitle translation, simply to avoid these problems the first guy was probably talking about. But he lambasted translators unfairly when they probably did a decent job, of you know, translating.

@MikkaQ said:

All the people saying "waah it's a medium, how can you explain the appeal of it" are kinda missing the point. Anime isn't a medium, animation is. Anime is a style within that medium, the OP wants to know the specific appeal behind that style.

If I had to guess, anime fans like the high level of detail that the style can afford. Backgrounds tend to have lots of neat little details as do most important characters. Of course the drawback is that 90% of anime is pretty lazily animated, that is to say sliding keyframes around a background. So detailed drawings, stiff animation is my take on anime. There's exceptions like anything, of course. Popped in Cowboy Bebop and it's nice to see when they actually take the time to animate stuff. But typically if it's a never-ending series like Naruto, you're gonna see some Hanna-Barbera levels of lazy animation.

The other half of the appeal is probably the same reason anyone is drawn to weird Japanese stuff. I've never been able to explain that one for myself.

It's not about style, but rather a place of origin. Anime is animation from Japan, that's it. (Some people argue that anime can be made outside of Japan, but that's not what were talking about, or what the OP is referencing) Anime is too broad to assign any specific style to it.

As to its appeal, obviously it depends on what you enjoy watching, like any form of entertainment. For me, I was first drawn to anime because of the artwork.

There are some anime's I like, but not necessarily the mainstream Naruto type of thing. I don't even really like anime shows. I kind of just mean, I really like what Studio Gibli does, or more specifically, films like Ponyo, Spirited Away, and Howl's Moving Castle. You sometimes just have to see things you're not used to, and those are about as far as I go when it comes to anime. I love artistic movies, like The Illusionist and stuff, and Ponyo kind of falls in that category to me. Also, Ponyo and Spirited Away are just cute.

My brother is a lot more into all things Japanese, so I know anime pretty well, but I think the main thing is, look for things that aren't so mainstream. For instance, don't watch Naruto or Bleach to figure out what's so good about it, unless you want to. I have a friend that got into Naruto a few years ago, and I think that's kind of sad, but it really doesn't matter. Go watch Ponyo and Spirited Away and tell me the characters in it aren't cute. Actually, I love the art in it (as for all Studio Gibli films) and the characters in some of them kind of remind me of my four year old cousin.

I kind of dislike most (or all) anime that use those stupid flashy seizure-induced techniques. And I always hate their stories like the "Oh, you thought I was weaker than you, but I became the strongest person in the world!" And etc. That's probably not all anime has to offer, but that's about as far as I care to go with them. I like a few here and there, but it's not really my type of thing. I cherish the few I like.

Why do people like things I hate?

For shorter series, it's the tight original stories (Death Note and such)

For the longer ones (more than 100 ep) it's the continuity driven narrative.

This type of narrative is very appealing and is the main driving force behind long running comic book series and long running anime series.

But since the only one piece of media that manages to avoid retcon clusterfucks and convoluted nonsense is One Piece (no pun intended) I would stick to that and forget Naruto, Bleach, etc.

So just you know, School Days isn't just a typical romance anime. It's completely fucked up. Then again, you wouldn't know that since you only watched one episode and deleted the rest. Either way, I don't know why your cousin recommended it to someone who is trying to get into anime.

What's the appeal of mainstream anything? Anime isn't one genre, there are as much different types of anime as there are movies or tv shows.... Just find something you like and watch it, can't expect everyone to love crazy fanservice and silly romance.

Oh and btw, School Days gets fucking disturbing after a few episodes. It's not just silly lame romance. Though I still wouldn't recommend it to anyone, but that's just me.

Guess the heavy focus on interesting stories and character development is what keeps my interest in anime.

Clannad and Clannad after story are my favorite anime series just because of the beautiful story it manages to tell and enjoy series similar to this one as well.

I cant really explain it but anime does something for me that live-action movies and books don't and that is why i still watch it today.

If you want to understand the apeall i guess you just have to try and keep looking for a show that grabs your attention, or not, i can understand that this is not for everyone.

PS: School days is a rough anime to start with. its not bad but its certainly... interesting because of the stuff that happens later on in that show. There is a big contrevoursy around it and it is one of the reason people watch it. (nice boat)

People watch anime because they're cheap, and they think it's legal to download fansubs of a show that isn't licensed in their country even though that's not true. Most anime is pretty bad, but there's some good stuff among the crap if you dig deep enough.

@spazmaster666: Yeah all anime is categorically from Japan, but the Japanese style of animation is distinct yet consistent enough to make certain generalizations.

@dcgc said:

@NTM said:

Go watch Ponyo and Spirited Away and tell me the characters in it aren't cute. Actually, I love the art in it (as for all Studio Gibli films) and the characters in some of them kind of remind me of my four year old cousin.

I already watched, almost, all of the Studio Gibli movies. I also saw Akira, but besides that and the animes I've mentioned in the OP, I haven't watched anything else nor do I enjoy or comprehend the popular stuff that is watched nowadays. That's why I made this thread and asked what was the appeal of it.

There's a site for this.

@Doctorchimp said:

@dcgc said:

@NTM said:

Go watch Ponyo and Spirited Away and tell me the characters in it aren't cute. Actually, I love the art in it (as for all Studio Gibli films) and the characters in some of them kind of remind me of my four year old cousin.

I already watched, almost, all of the Studio Gibli movies. I also saw Akira, but besides that and the animes I've mentioned in the OP, I haven't watched anything else nor do I enjoy or comprehend the popular stuff that is watched nowadays. That's why I made this thread and asked what was the appeal of it.

There's a site for this.

not really. That isn't covered in the same umbrella as GB anymore, so there's no point in going there

Not sure as I have no idea what the appeal is either.

@Animasta: Holy shit, dude there's a whole internet out there that isn't giantbomb and comicvine!

You gotta check it out! Shit's crazy.

@dcgc: I should have assumed you have, although I wasn't necessarily assuming otherwise. Anyways, that's good, hope you at least liked some of those. I don't think you need to find out why people like mainstream anime stuff, or anime in general. If you're looking into it and find it hard to get into it, then move on. There's always a chance later that something may catch your interest. I don't know, does it really matter why other people like it?

@Doctorchimp said:

@Animasta: Holy shit, dude there's a whole internet out there that isn't giantbomb and comicvine!

You gotta check it out! Shit's crazy.

I'm just saying that anime vice is a terrible site and that there's no reason to send people there. Can we ONLY talk about video games here, now?

How many of these "what's up with anime?" threads do we really need?

@Animasta said:

@Doctorchimp said:

@Animasta: Holy shit, dude there's a whole internet out there that isn't giantbomb and comicvine!

You gotta check it out! Shit's crazy.

I'm just saying that anime vice is a terrible site and that there's no reason to send people there. Can we ONLY talk about video games here, now?

Where did I say that? Even you have to admit that the whole "HEY COME HERE AND DEFEND YOUR SHITTY HOBBY!" is pretty tiring.

@McGhee said:

How many of these "what's up with anime?" threads do we really need?

See? This guy gets it.

@Doctorchimp: that's not the fault of people who like anime though

edit and sending people to animevice for answers to this question is probably a bad idea.

For some reason I always get more attached to characters in Anime. I have never really felt any real attachment to characters in other mediums with the exception of some books. I also really like long Anime since you really get to know the characters.

By the way I find that the best way to see if you like a series is to watch more than 1 or 2 episodes. A lot of Anime can take a few episodes till you see what the show is really about.

I would suggest heading to www.crunchyroll.com and watch a few episodes of Space Brothers. It feels a lot like King of the Hill in some ways so you may like it.

Also watch Poyopoyo, the episodes are short and it is a laugh riot!

@Doctorchimp said:

@Animasta said:

@Doctorchimp said:

@Animasta: Holy shit, dude there's a whole internet out there that isn't giantbomb and comicvine!

You gotta check it out! Shit's crazy.

I'm just saying that anime vice is a terrible site and that there's no reason to send people there. Can we ONLY talk about video games here, now?

Where did I say that? Even you have to admit that the whole "HEY COME HERE AND DEFEND YOUR SHITTY HOBBY!" is pretty tiring.

@McGhee said:

How many of these "what's up with anime?" threads do we really need?

See? This guy gets it.

Most of them are created by Sonic Hedgehog.

Also: Off-Topic...

I only started properly watching anime this year, beforehand I was quite biased against it. Most people I had met who were "into" anime were complete japanophiles who I didn't really want to associate with. However I decided to give it a proper chance and watched a bunch of what are considered to be the best animes (E.G Evangelion, Cowboy Bebop, FLCL) and I think I finally understand the appeal.

A huge generalisation about anime is it's just for fawning over sexy cartoon ladies. While this is actually true to some extent (there's no denying it really) there is plenty more to it to that. The reason I have been enjoying anime so much is because it is so detached from reality that it allows the creators to have complete creative control, similar to cartoons but with a more adult tone. There are no limitations on what can and can't happen, it truely is a blank slate. This allows for the characters to be thrown into completely insane situations that can be both enjoyable and heart wrenching. I've felt more attachment to characters in the anime's I have seen than most TV shows/movies due to how immersive some of the worlds are.

That being said a lot of anime isn't defensible and quite perverted. However that's more of a cultural issue in Japan than anything else. The "cute" animes also creep me out quite a bit.

Just giving my 2c on the issue. There is a lot of quality anime content, but likewise there is a lot of terrible content. I guess it's the same as TV, comparing breaking bad to jersey shore. People need to give anime more of a chance before they just write it off, I gave it a chance and it really changed my opinion of it.

I have really fallen out of love with anime in the last few years. I was pretty obsessed with it for quite a while, but the stream of little girls going to school and awful fanservice shows grew really tiresome and really kinda creepy. I'm sure there's been a show here and there that is great that I have missed, and I have recently started watching the newest series of Eureka Seven (which is great), but mostly because of the love I have for the original.

What's the appeal? Nothing does giant robots fighting other giant robots like anime.

@FlarePhoenix said:

Asking about the appeal of anime is like asking about the appeal of music: there are so many different styles and genres it would be impossible to talk about anime as a whole without making some drastic generalizations.

@dcgc: Like some others may have said, Anime happens to be very different depending on its style (pretty much like many other mediums) so it's pretty hard to talk about as a whole.

Flagging Sonic the Hedgehog is like a fucking pastime now.

Wow, I clicked this topic expecting tons of troll posts. What I found instead is a relatively civilized discussion. WHAT IS GOING ON?!

@dcgc said:

@ZeForgotten said:

Not really that big of a mystery. It's the same thing that makes other movies or TV shows appealing to others.

But from what I've seen, all of today's popular anime feels the same as the "School Days" one. I still don't understand what's the appeal to these themes. Is it because people who enjoy anime just watch everything, since it has the same drawing/animation style? I just can't grasp it, that kind of anime just feels creepy.

? You just said you hadn't seen a single episode of some of the most popular modern series but now you're sure that everything is like School Days. Me am confused.

Plus, I think you probably stopped when School Days was a generic harem. It gets radically different after a few episodes and there are very few anime like it. Plus, yeah, School Days. I love it and even imported it at like $80 for two episodes, but even I facepalm at the idea of being introduced to anime through that series.

@dcgc said:

I may not have seen an episode but I sure saw several clips on YT of the current popular animes that I said I didn't comprehend. That's why I thought that the core idea or premise, or even some oddities such as close shots on some girl's panties or teens with big busted boobs, in some of these animes were weird and didn't add or improve anything to their story or to the quality of the anime itself. Because these animes are really popular and have a large and growing audience, I wanted to understand what was its appeal overall).

My intention was not to troll people, if that's what most of the users thought.

The most popular video games feature modern military settings with lots of blood, guns and set pieces. And guess what? A lot of people who are into video games aren't fans of that.

I can't understand how you can generalize any medium to the point where you have to ask "what's the appeal?" without actually thinking that not everyone's into the same things as everyone else.

@dcgc: So School Days gets WAAAAAAAY weirder about four episodes in. Also, your cousin is a dick for not telling you to watch the whole thing in one sitting.

There are a lot of kinds of anime. Some is good, some is bad, most is pretty mediocre, and, occasionally, it's fucking excellent. The high school romance comedies have occasionally brought some amazing shows to life, and I think you might really like darker shōnen based on the stuff you mentioned before. The stuff you mentioned other than School Days is nothing like School Days.

@YI_Orange said:

Like people have said, you're generalizing way too much. That said, if you break Anime down to it's simplest form and the weird faces and the chibis and the 12 year olds but no its cool she's actually 2000 and whatnot, I hate it too. I can't stand all those "Teen romance" (HEY LOOK AT ALL THESE LADIES) anime, but One Piece is one of my favorite works of fiction ever. Just like with anything else, it's about finding the right ones.

Yeah this. Anime is just way to big for just one thing only. It has multiple things going on with it at all times. Also they are far more mature than cartoons over here. (People who dispute that are morons. here is why.)

As a kid, I was used to episodic cartoons all the damn time. No storyline whatsoever in any of them or just loosely connected. However, when DBZ hit the airwaves on Toonami I shat myself in terms of being surprised just by the fact that it is following a story, then in the second or third episode one of the main fucking characters dies taking out a villain! That never happened in cartoons before and I was shocked.

In general, Anime has always been more mature than western cartoons, they pull no fucking punches!

@Taku128 said:

People watch anime because they're cheap, and they think it's legal to download fansubs of a show that isn't licensed in their country even though that's not true. Most anime is pretty bad, but there's some good stuff among the crap if you dig deep enough.

When people say this, gotta call bullshit on Sturgeons law because it is pretty bullshit, a more accurate percentage of most mediums out there goes like this.

50% Bad, 25% generic/average. 15% good. and 10% amazing. That works far more and it makes sense. Sturgeons law IMO is bullshit.

@GunstarRed said:

I have really fallen out of love with anime in the last few years. I was pretty obsessed with it for quite a while, but the stream of little girls going to school and awful fanservice shows grew really tiresome and really kinda creepy. I'm sure there's been a show here and there that is great that I have missed, and I have recently started watching the newest series of Eureka Seven (which is great), but mostly because of the love I have for the original.

What's the appeal? Nothing does giant robots fighting other giant robots like anime.

nuhuh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megas_XLR

@Animasta: Hmm, I'm watching clips on youtube and a lot of it just seems a little like a badly animated anime robot parody.

I was reminded recently about how nobody really does it quite like japan when it comes to giant robots from that Zone of the Enders trailer. I don't think I have ever seen anything involving robots quite as exciting as some of the battles in Gurren Lagann, Aquarion, E7, Macross etc.

@GunstarRed said:

I have really fallen out of love with anime in the last few years. I was pretty obsessed with it for quite a while, but the stream of little girls going to school and awful fanservice shows grew really tiresome and really kinda creepy. I'm sure there's been a show here and there that is great that I have missed, and I have recently started watching the newest series of Eureka Seven (which is great), but mostly because of the love I have for the original.

What's the appeal? Nothing does giant robots fighting other giant robots like anime.

Slice-of-life/moeblob/shoujo anime is like anime's WWII/modern military shooter phase. I guess the appeal to animation studios is that it is really easy to pull off and doesn't require too much creativity and sells easily.

In terms of giant robots fighting other giant robots, I don't remember much of note that I've enjoyed other than the ones you've mentioned. I'd call Rinne no Lagrange (from earlier this year) a softcore mecha anime since there is a bit of school life in that, too, but I liked a bunch.

I like good anime. The last one of those that came out recently was Steins;Gate. When will the next anime that's as good as that come out? I dunno. In the mean time I'll keep watching Gintama.

@InfiniteGeass: Didn't you have an avatar from 'Is This A Zombie" back in the day? They just had another season that just ended.