Would you want your school's student grades to be made public?

I voted yes.

No real job would discriminate based on your grades, most jobs look at experience not how well you did in high school.

Everyone that does well in school/did well in school will say yes, and vice-versa. I said yes because i do exceedingly well in school.

anyone saying they would care are people that did bad. it would probably motivate these people to you know, not do so bad

It seems to push students to try harder in Japan, but I don't think it would ever fly in the U.S.

Sure, maybe if grades were known, kids would want to do better, that would've worked for me when I was in school if grades were posted regularly for everyone to see

@jking47 said:

I think that those kind of things should be kept private. Someones academic performance is no ones business but their own(and their parents I guess).

Also, what if someone is trying as hard as they can, but just can't pass, lets say, math class for instance. They could have some sort of learning disability, their home life could be part of the issue, maybe the school the are at has terrible teachers, etc. etc. Is the best option really to try and humiliate them in front of their peers?

bingo. as somebody with a learning disability, the last thing you need more of is pressure, and knowing that everybody will see me fail is a ton of pressure. i believe this idea is negative reinforcement, the worst way to motivate people.

@tunaburn said:

anyone saying they would care are people that did bad. it would probably motivate these people to you know, not do so bad

And if they try their hardest and still do poorly? Kids might have learning disabilities or can't afford the expensive text books and calculators. Improving students' academic performance requires more than negative reinforcement.

My school had a Wall of Shame in our classroom where they listed the names of any student in our grade who had a failing grade. I did poorly in math and had my name up there. But I exceeded in most of my other subjects. Is it fair for me to be shamed for not being good at everything?

I used to have a chemistry teacher who collected all of our grades and put them into an incredibly organised statistics table.
He created an entire class ranking, scores on individual tests, overall percentage and so on, which he brought out and analysed in front of the class every time we got a test paper back.
He also had a giant spreadsheet consisting of around 6 years of previous classes where you'd see everyone's overall ranking and he'd compare people (High scorers, siblings, low scorers, etc) to previous years in great detail in front of the class.
It was hillarious in a sense. Though for low scorers like me and a bunch of others after being ridiculed once or twice it just had the effect of turning us off the subject and purposefully performing even worse to skew up the pie charts a little.
 
tldr; hard-on for statistics, kinda funny. Public grades make the smart students try harder but the stupider students try less.

@tunaburn said:

anyone saying they would care are people that did bad. it would probably motivate these people to you know, not do so bad

No, again, my saying no has nothing to do with my performance as a student (I'm not even in school anymore so what do I care). It's about your right as an individual to not be coerced into unwanted competition. The students who care about grades can choose to disclose them with friends if they want, that's their prerogative and no one should stop them. But by the same token, students who don't care about that sort of thing shouldn't be forced to. I'd hope that those of you supposedly bright students saying "oh it'll encourage all the lazy students to do better" can conjure up a better motivational tool than the fear of humiliation.

It's actually kind of disturbing that most people here are choosing yes or no based on their own performance in school and only how it would affect them, and not based on any actual sort of principle.

Realistically, no one is going to care about looking at other kids' grades. But I'm all for adding accountability to society.

I never really gave a fuck in school. In high school I might've given a fuck, but the shithole college I went to and will be re-enrolling into? Fuck them. They can suck a dick, I could come in last for grades and not care less what those kids think of me because it's a commuter school and I'd never have to meet them anyway.

as a straight C student through all of school, I wouldn't give a fuuuuuuuuck. Its school, it doesn't count for shit.

@Oscar__Explosion said:

My high school math teacher always posted up are grades but used our school id numbers instead of our names.

If done, I feel this is the way it should be done.

@bennyboy said:

@tunaburn said:

anyone saying they would care are people that did bad. it would probably motivate these people to you know, not do so bad

No, again, my saying no has nothing to do with my performance as a student (I'm not even in school anymore so what do I care). It's about your right as an individual to not be coerced into unwanted competition. The students who care about grades can choose to disclose them with friends if they want, that's their prerogative and no one should stop them. But by the same token, students who don't care about that sort of thing shouldn't be forced to. I'd hope that those of you supposedly bright students saying "oh it'll encourage all the lazy students to do better" can conjure up a better motivational tool than the fear of humiliation.

It's actually kind of disturbing that most people here are choosing yes or no based on their own performance in school and only how it would affect them, and not based on any actual sort of principle.

From your previous post it sounds like it's actually from your own experience, or that of your friends/kids etc, that negative reactions were had from sharing bad grades with your friends.

Inspiring competition among students is an education principle used by some teachers. The only real ethical problem is in the case of certain students who put forth more effort than others and still do bad, which I am sure is not the always the case; If that is the case, it's more than likely because of prior education experience where they are lacking some foundation.

I would like it, I normally share results and compete with the best in my year but I don't think its fair for someones results to be posted if they don't want them to be. Voted no.

@Arestice said:

@Oscar__Explosion said:

My high school math teacher always posted up are grades but used our school id numbers instead of our names.

If done, I feel this is the way it should be done.

@bennyboy said:

@tunaburn said:

anyone saying they would care are people that did bad. it would probably motivate these people to you know, not do so bad

No, again, my saying no has nothing to do with my performance as a student (I'm not even in school anymore so what do I care). It's about your right as an individual to not be coerced into unwanted competition. The students who care about grades can choose to disclose them with friends if they want, that's their prerogative and no one should stop them. But by the same token, students who don't care about that sort of thing shouldn't be forced to. I'd hope that those of you supposedly bright students saying "oh it'll encourage all the lazy students to do better" can conjure up a better motivational tool than the fear of humiliation.

It's actually kind of disturbing that most people here are choosing yes or no based on their own performance in school and only how it would affect them, and not based on any actual sort of principle.

From your previous post it sounds like it's actually from your own experience, or that of your friends/kids etc, that negative reactions were had from sharing bad grades with your friends.

Inspiring competition among students is an education principle used by some teachers. The only real ethical problem is in the case of certain students who put forth more effort than others and still do bad, which I am sure is not the always the case; If that is the case, it's more than likely because of prior education experience where they are lacking some foundation.

Well if you read my post again you'll notice that I'm not speaking from an experience perspective, but from a privacy perspective. And from my second post you'll notice that I have no problem with students volunteering this information amongst their friends. The distinction is that they're choosing to disclose their grades and therefore have the competition coming to them.

But if the cynic inside you still insists that I'm speaking from experience, then I'll humor you by saying that any negative reactions to be had from me don't stem from sharing bad grades with my friends, but from sharing grades at all. Someone's always going to do better than someone else, which in the best case inspires competition and the drive to improve, and in the worst case stirs up resentment in the people who aren't up to snuff. I don't want to talk about how I did in school because I feel that my performance is unrelated to what we're talking about, but let's just say that I usually did well, and didn't want to talk about my grades with friends because I had no interest in gloating about these things. After all, like others in this thread have mentioned...they're just grades right? They don't mean a thing?

For the record, if the OP meant simply having an anonymous list of grades that are assigned to student ID's, I have no problem with this practice, since this actually inspires competition without being invasive (as long as the student ID's are truly anonymous). But I think that you're seirously reaching if "inspiring competition" as you put it means the need to make publicly known the specific grades of each and every student.

Here's the thing, I didn't care about school or grades since the fifth grade (because that's what's cool) so I wouldn't care either way. But in the sixth grade they really started to drop. I'm not even gonna discuss my current high school grades.

I was (am?) pretty intelligent, smarter than a lot of people; completely unmotivated and uninterested. I was a 90% student through elementary, but then sometime in high school, I stopped giving a shit. This really cropped up in my junior year, where I dropped to like 69% or so. And then I took less classes in my senior year and it went up to 87%. Maybe it was just classes I was interested in.

Would I care if people saw them? ... I don't know. They saw when I'd get a 0 because I didn't do the thing they wanted me to. I wouldn't compete. I did poorly because I didn't care the actual work, not that i lacked the chance to be the very best, like no one ever was.

@bennyboy said:

After all, like others in this thread have mentioned...they're just grades right? They don't mean a thing?

Lol, wut?

Wouldn't have mind since I was A + plus student, actually I probably would have show off a little bit...

@Antikythera: I'm sorry but you're going to have to be a little more specific about what it is you're confused about.

Don't really care. The only people who needed to see them had access to them anyways.

Good grades don't lead to popularity in the states, and we all know popularity leads to intimacy, so I think grades would plummet in concerted efforts by everyone to look cool and thus obtain intimacy.

The Finnish youth are volatile enough already, it wouldn't mesh with the education system and I'd rather keep the pretense of privacy.

@bennyboy: Inspiring competition certainly doesn't require the grades to be publicly known, and as you may have read or ignored I stated that they should be made with the id not the name, the presentation of everyone's grades can inspire said competition thought it should not be the only means to do so. I also find it hilarious how you claim to have no experience with it and are so strongly defensive to it.

I hold an AS in teaching and have done a semester of student teaching with a class that was considered the "bad students" of the school, meaning if they were kicked out this class they would be removed from the school all together. The students themselves had no care for the lessons nor any of the assignments, a way to motivate the students for the upcoming SOLs we used a number of games and team based games using competition as a motivation. This was a class where the displaying of their grades would have no effect on them, especially considering the special case I was in (inner city high school). Naturally this did not affect all the students, because no matter what you do, some students just don't care about school. Reaching out to those students is more than just standard motivational practices. This is another point to be made that each class is different, so there really is no correct answer to whether or not we should display their grades. For the most part I think it would be a positive effect in our society especially considering the fact that Ivy League schools are heavily competitive and grades are a big deal.

I can point you to several academic journals that discuss competition in the class if you'd like, however I think you just mistook what I was saying.

You did correctly guess, I am a cynic and I no longer pursue the path of teaching because it requires far more optimism and understanding than I cared to give. Most teachers are not nearly paid nor respected enough for the things that they do.

Yeah sure. I like having my ego stroked, and I'm almost always number 1 in that department when comes to school. Valedictorian at my highschool, 3.95 gpa as a junior in college. Although this graph theory class I'm taking is giving me a run for my money. I may get my first B this semester.

@DarthOrange said:

I wouldn't really care, nor do I think anyone else really would, save for a few crazy parents and students that want to be the best.

@Arestice said:

@bennyboy: Inspiring competition certainly doesn't require the grades to be publicly known, and as you may have read or ignored I stated that they should be made with the id not the name, the presentation of everyone's grades can inspire said competition thought it should not be the only means to do so. I also find it hilarious how you claim to have no experience with it and are so strongly defensive to it.

I hold an AS in teaching and have done a semester of student teaching with a class that was considered the "bad students" of the school, meaning if they were kicked out this class they would be removed from the school all together. The students themselves had no care for the lessons nor any of the assignments, a way to motivate the students for the upcoming SOLs we used a number of games and team based games using competition as a motivation. This was a class where the displaying of their grades would have no effect on them, especially considering the special case I was in (inner city high school). Naturally this did not affect all the students, because no matter what you do, some students just don't care about school. Reaching out to those students is more than just standard motivational practices. This is another point to be made that each class is different, so there really is no correct answer to whether or not we should display their grades. For the most part I think it would be a positive effect in our society especially considering the fact that Ivy League schools are heavily competitive and grades are a big deal.

I can point you to several academic journals that discuss competition in the class if you'd like, however I think you just mistook what I was saying.

You did correctly guess, I am a cynic and I no longer pursue the path of teaching because it requires far more optimism and understanding than I cared to give. Most teachers are not nearly paid nor respected enough for the things that they do.

You find it hilarious that I am able to have empathy for others without needing to experience their problems firsthand? That's on you buddy, not me. And of course I didn't ignore your comment about anonymous IDs. Why do you think I mentioned them being okay towards the end? And in your anecdote, are you saying the students' names were attached to their grades and made known to the whole class? Or do you mean you went by the ID system? Because if it's the latter then I don't see how your story is in disagreement with anything I've said.

Yes, because it would motivate kids to work harder. Transparency in my book is usually a good thing. What matters is results, if school's purpose is to help you learn things, then anything that might make you learn better is a welcome sight. However I'm sure there's some cons to this, like maybe feeling bad for getting a bad grade might lead you to kill yourself(Japan has the highest suicide rate in the world).

@gamefreak9 said:

Yes, because it would motivate kids to work harder. Transparency in my book is usually a good thing. What matters is results, if school's purpose is to help you learn things, then anything that might make you learn better is a welcome sight. However I'm sure there's some cons to this, like maybe feeling bad for getting a bad grade might lead you to kill yourself(Japan has the highest suicide rate in the world).

I can speak from experience, people knowing your grades doesn't motivate you any harder, especially if you're the type to slack off. My mom checked my grades daily, and I still fucked around.

I'm a good student myself, but that would corrupt the main ideals and objectives of school in a twisted managerial manner.

Not every grade is made public in Japanese schools. They just post the exam scores.

And I wouldn't have had a problem with it. Then again, my grades were generally good enough that I wouldn't have been embarrassed by them.

@bennyboy: Students should be by ID.

Point is competition can result in motivation for better grades.

You claim to have empathy but are positive that students wont have empathy for each other when their grades are shared particularly among their friends, seems your'e just as cynical as the rest of us, pal.

Competition always made me a better student, and I can't imagine I'm alone in that, so I've never seen the harm in things like making grades public ... but obviously not everybody agrees.

No. Regardless of what kind of grades I get, I've never liked sharing them with anyone. I don't care what other peoples' grades are, either.

School to me isn't a competition, it's a place for self-improvement. As long as you're better and smarter than you were last year, it doesn't matter how anyone else is doing.

@Arestice said:

@bennyboy: Students should be by ID.

Point is competition can result in motivation for better grades.

You claim to have empathy but are positive that students wont have empathy for each other when their grades are shared particularly among their friends, seems your'e just as cynical as the rest of us, pal.

what

where did i say that.

And yes competition can result in motivation, which is why anonymous IDs are okay but public disclosure is not...as I stated before.

And in hindsight, if I understand your story correctly, you didn't actually make any grades public in your class and are purely speculating and even assuming what would happen if you did, in which case you have no grounds to make an argument one way or the other.

I got nothing but A's in school why would I care

No, that doesn't actually do anyone any good. Japan puts enormous pressure on people to excel at school/work, and as a result they have one of the highest suicide rates in the world. Some people just aren't cut out for these things, and they shouldn't have to be publicly shamed for it.

@zombiebigfoot said:

@gamefreak9 said:

Yes, because it would motivate kids to work harder. Transparency in my book is usually a good thing. What matters is results, if school's purpose is to help you learn things, then anything that might make you learn better is a welcome sight. However I'm sure there's some cons to this, like maybe feeling bad for getting a bad grade might lead you to kill yourself(Japan has the highest suicide rate in the world).

I can speak from experience, people knowing your grades doesn't motivate you any harder, especially if you're the type to slack off. My mom checked my grades daily, and I still fucked around.

yeah but your mom's one thing, your friends or peers is another, obviously if parents dictated their kids motivations there would be alot less trouble with raising your kids. Reputation in school is very important.

@Socialone said:

I'm a good student myself, but that would corrupt the main ideals and objectives of school in a twisted managerial manner.

Yes, as early as possible, you have to quickly determine who is human garbage and useless and who has a future and is a worthwhile existence.

Public? No.

Pubic? Maybe...

No, I think that posting your grades up is setting the world up for conflict. And also why would I want to be demeaned in front of the world.

I said No. I see it as a gross invasion of privacy that reveals a lot about a person that they have the right to keep to themselves should they choose.

In school I got really good grades but does that make me a better person than someone at the time did not. It would serve only further to split the unity of people further apart.

So I think the idea of posting grades for all to see as done in some parts is just the wrong way to go about doing it.

I generally get good grades when I actually attend class, but I picked up a pretty terrible habit over the last couple of years. I skip a lot of school. My attendance hovered around 60% in grade 11. That was also the year I took physics 12, chem 12, and math 12, so missing that much class wasn't a great idea. I managed a 78% in math, but had 60s in chem and physics. Literally the worst grades I've ever gotten on anything.

This year, I figured I'd step up my game and stop slacking off. Only problem being I took all of the hard classes last year, so this year is nothing but boredom. I have pre cal, sociology, law, and electrotechnology. Just one of these classes is actually 'difficult': pre cal. The rest I could sleep through and ace (open book tests). I wrote my first pre cal test two weeks ago. Got a 97%. I wound up skipping all of last week, so I'm 6 hours of instructional time behind in every class now. Curious as to what my next test mark will be.

I'd be a hundred percent behind having test scores disclosed. They don't even need to have names attached, hell, I'd be happy with just knowing the averages. If I knew I were slipping behind the rest of the class, I'd be motivated to catch up. I don't value getting high scores on tests, I value getting better scores than others. That 97% is meaningless if the average is 98%. On the other hand, if the average is 80% then I'm fucking awesome, etc.

I would not like it. I'm not too competitive. I'm pretty high up, but seeing exactly how many are above me would probably cause me to get pissed and give up than try harder. Mainly because those at the top would probably be assholes about it. I'd hate getting thrown aside in conversations because someone is a rank above me.

@Jrad said:

I generally get good grades when I actually attend class, but I picked up a pretty terrible habit over the last couple of years. I skip a lot of school. My attendance hovered around 60% in grade 11. That was also the year I took physics 12, chem 12, and math 12, so missing that much class wasn't a great idea. I managed a 78% in math, but had 60s in chem and physics. Literally the worst grades I've ever gotten on anything.

This year, I figured I'd step up my game and stop slacking off. Only problem being I took all of the hard classes last year, so this year is nothing but boredom. I have pre cal, sociology, law, and electrotechnology. Just one of these classes is actually 'difficult': pre cal. The rest I could sleep through and ace (open book tests). I wrote my first pre cal test two weeks ago. Got a 97%. I wound up skipping all of last week, so I'm 6 hours of instructional time behind in every class now. Curious as to what my next test mark will be.

I'd be a hundred percent behind having test scores disclosed. They don't even need to have names attached, hell, I'd be happy with just knowing the averages. If I knew I were slipping behind the rest of the class, I'd be motivated to catch up. I don't value getting high scores on tests, I value getting better scores than others. That 97% is meaningless if the average is 98%. On the other hand, if the average is 80% then I'm fucking awesome, etc.

Math 12 is Trig, isn't it?

@gamefreak9 said:

@zombiebigfoot said:

@gamefreak9 said:

Yes, because it would motivate kids to work harder. Transparency in my book is usually a good thing. What matters is results, if school's purpose is to help you learn things, then anything that might make you learn better is a welcome sight. However I'm sure there's some cons to this, like maybe feeling bad for getting a bad grade might lead you to kill yourself(Japan has the highest suicide rate in the world).

I can speak from experience, people knowing your grades doesn't motivate you any harder, especially if you're the type to slack off. My mom checked my grades daily, and I still fucked around.

yeah but your mom's one thing, your friends or peers is another, obviously if parents dictated their kids motivations there would be alot less trouble with raising your kids. Reputation in school is very important.

I can also confidently say that my friends wouldn't of given a flying fuck about my grades. My 'peers' were all assholes, so I wouldn't of cared anyways.

I always thought this was normal in my school

they only showed the mark of the top ten students in a class though

I wouldn't care, because I get all A's and everyone already knows that...

@Simplexity said:

Yes, as early as possible, you have to quickly determine who is human garbage and useless and who has a future and is a worthwhile existence.

Uh?