Zoe Quinn Created an Online Harassment Support Group

@gregorygold: I typically do nothing out of fear, but that's my particular problem I suppose. One I've been struggling with for a very long time. As I said, I'll skip being a pessimist here. I do hope it works out well.

All I did was call out the guy's ignorance. Every single part of his post was ignorant by definition. He was borderline victim blaming, commenting on a situation of which he clearly has very little knowledge of while having ample information within this very thread with which to educate himself. And then he goes on to suggest that those with depression basically need to toughen up or use a completely ineffective means of silencing their harassers. If pointing out someone's incredibly offensive point of view is to be considered a "foaming at the mouth take down" then by all means, I'll be a rabid fucking dog thank you very much.

If a person has suffered online harassment, doxxing and swatting as a result of opinions on Twitter, would disagreeing with their affiliations or personal expression be a sufficient reason to exclude them from support?

@rollingzeppelin: Don't worry, judging from another thread, that guy seems to have a definite MO.

@rollingzeppelin: I don't think your comments in this thread are anything to apologize for.

Rather, it seems like there are a few people trying to drag their GG campaigning into this thread & find offense where there is none. You accurately called out a comment for ignorance. You didn't use a flame thrower, you weren't foaming at the mouth and being identified as ignorant is only insulting to those unwilling to learn.

I mean, good for her and everything. I just don't see how the internet will ever overcome a spoofed mac address, burner email and public wifi. Not to mention being global.

Be awful careful in what you put online seems to be one of their clearest messages. I agree with it completely. You can chart the rise of harassment with the rise of social media. Its hard to take a threat seriously when all anyone ever had was a username. I can say whatever I please here or anywhere else without my real name attached and I can't exactly be attacked for who I am just criticized for my message. Internet anonymity is essentially impossible to overcome anyway so going fully open only works if you trust that Facebook/Twitter can confirm every identity. The only thing I can think of that her "tech gurus" could do is find the best ways to shield your personal info, like don't put your real name on your account or connect it with your personal facebook.

That being said I really can't see a realistic solution for someone like herself who needs the internet because that's what she does for a living. Expecting people the world over to not be a-holes isn't realistic and has literally never worked for anything ever. Expecting law enforcement to be able to track every IP address and pin them to specific users isn't realistic outside of extreme cases (and that's even if it's in an applicable jurisdiction). So what legislation would you pass to mitigate harassment? What legislation could you pass that wouldn't run into the bill killing right to privacy?

But again, good for her. It's a start for your average Joe or Jane online. It has to start somewhere and who knows, maybe there isn't an end-all-be-all solution. Just redesign that thing, sheesh, what a mess.

I doubt this support group would be interested in giving someone like LizzyF any help to be honest. Or Mr. Total Biscuit who routinely gets people telling him to die of cancer for his pro-GG stances.

As much as I loathe some of the crap I've seen from pro-GG there's plenty of stuff going on with the other side too. It's all gross. And weird.

I'm bored of it.

@privodotmenit: I don't know what Crash Override should do in the case of people who stood with the group that was actively harassing CO members. I would hope that CO would be able to have a reasonable discussion and come to an understanding with that person, then help them. Very few of the pro-GG people actively drove harassment personally so I would think that CO and the help seeker could find common ground. Now I could see them taking issue with people who actively steered harassment and profited from it (as they should). I think asking for help in the first place would be a pretty big step in the right direction towards healing the rifts that exist between the figureheads of both sides, if a pro-GG person needed help in the first place.

@mortuss_zero: That sucks to hear, but I can empathise. I've not acted due to anxiety in the past. I hope you can get somewhere good with your pessimism some day, don't let it cripple you! (easier said than done, I know).

@gregorygold: Believe it or not, things are considerably better than they used to be. Thanks for understanding though.

Well it looks like there was an animal fatality in a recent swatting. The person who wrote that tweet was one of the 3 previous GG related swatting victims. If you have reason to believe you might be targeted by something like swatting, then let your local police know.

I usually wouldn't post news from twitter, but it looks like the victim isn't going public so there won't be a news story to point to. I have no way of confirming this without a shadow of a doubt, but I doubt Izzy has any reason to lie about something like this. He already has lived through a swatting and he has the police report to go along with it.

This is a damn tragedy.

I heard about that :(

It's absolutely terrifying that swatting is even possible, but I guess that's the current police state in the US. There should't be a need for an organization to protect people from kids on the internet mobilizing government-sanctioned violence, but there is, and I'm glad it exists.

@coaxmetal: Its terrible that the police in the US are this mobilized, but I doubt they ever imagined that someone would be so callous as to phone in a fake report of a level that would necessitate a full mobilization. This is the kind of abuse of infrastructure abuse that leads to the police not responding in full force when they actually need to.

I really don't like Zoe Quinn, (separate from the stupid gamer-gate stuff, since I don't know much about it), but I think something like this would be a good idea if it where headed by qualified professionals, like actual law enforcement and psychologists, (and from the looks of it web designers). Though if this website helps people that can only be a good thing.

I hadn't heard of this dog incident before... is there a news article about it anywhere?

It's shocking if it's true, but at the same time, all I've seen so far is that 'anonymous comment on 4chan' screenshot, which... well, you know what 4chan humour tends to be like.

@chris24680:

I'm with you on this one. I think this is a great idea but I have a nagging feeling that it's going to crash and burn if it's not in the hands of the right people.

The internet is a scary place and some people can't really handle it. Myself included, I frequent a lot of message boards but hardly every post on them because I'm afraid everything thing I write is going to be used against me even thought I mean no offence. Even now, I'm debating with myself to click "post reply" because I'm afraid someone might take this post the wrong way and call me all sorts of horrible things.

I can only imagine it gets worst if you're a public figure in any way, shape or form.

The idea of this support group is great but I'm really hoping this is handled well.

Task forces are cool. They make me imagine a team of people in leather bodysuits each with their own specialty. So obviously I'm in support of whatever this is.

@justicejanitor said:

I think I understand this anxiety. If I may offer a piece of advice? Ask yourself what the worst thing that could happen to you is.

No really. What's the worst thing that could happen to you by sharing your opinions and expressing your thoughts here, or anywhere? The worst thing that could happen is that somebody doesn't like it. Some people may even call you names, or threaten carnal conquest over your parents. Some people may even agree with you. The worst thing that could happen to you by sharing your thoughts and opinions is that some person you don't know, whom you'll never meet or interact with on any meaningful level, will get salty. That's it. That's the worst of it. There's absolutely no reason to hold yourself back from engaging with humanity simply because some people choose to be vicious assholes. I'm not saying it's easy to overcome this anxiety, but if you really think about it; you've got your life, your health, your family, your hobbies, whatever it is you do in your life; whatever is important to you. All of this? All of this bullshit we all choose to engage with? It's transitory. Etheral. It doesn't matter in the slightest.

Hopefully you pick up what I'm putting down, and I hope you overcome this anxiety of yours in the future.

@oldirtybearon: Thanks for this. I've been aware of those issues for a while now and I've been working on them (seeing therapists and the like). I've made huge improvements but I'm not quite there yet. Still working on it.

PDs HAVE TO treat every call like that as an active situation. HAVE TO. Because the one time that it isnt taken seriously its an actual event and someone gets killed. Then the media excoriates said PD for not doing enough. I worked for 8 years along law enforcement and FD/EMS and for every 8 calls from Nosy Nellie at least 1 of them was something criminal. But if the PD treated that 9th call as "just another Nosy Nellie complaint" and shrugged it off, someone got hurt or property destroyed/stolen. Cant pick and choose what emergencies to respond to. Protocols are in place that describe what and how many for various situations and you have to take each call as it comes in. PDs dont have the luxury of "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" syndrome.

@chris24680: I think this part of their description should speak to your expertise concerns:

Our network includes experts in information security, white hat hacking, PR, law enforcement, legal, threat monitoring, and counselling.

Based only on who has been targeted by GG in recent months, I could make a list of experts that would fit all of those qualifications except counselling. I don't even know any of the people involved, but I've seen who has been targeted in the past. If only the publicly harassed people formed up like Voltron to create CO, then they have plenty of expertise.

@tikimorpher: That is good to know. I just hope that the police are able to track down "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" and put him in jail for crying wolf in a crowded theater.

@scarycrayons: Looks like there might not be a news article on this because the target wanted to stay out of the spotlight. This could be a hoax, but I have no reason to not believe Izzy. He has no reason to make up something like this considering all he has been through. His swatting has been reported on already, so I doubt he would falsely confirm another incident for political reasons.

@notlikelytocare said:

I remember that whole thing vividly, and I'm almost certain that Zoë didn't talk about it at all, let alone spearhead the backlash.

@conmulligan: I agree that I don't remember Zoe spearheading the hate around their hires...but I DO remember Brianna Wu complaining about it even in December (even though she engages the same hiring practice of hiring people you know personally and trust). Maybe he's confusing the two people.

@notlikelytocare: Yeah, you're is getting the incident confused. But the rest of the point remains true. I have seen some of her twittersplosions as you put it, they are nothing warranting the response she got later, but I do remember feeling somewhat sour about these things.

@tuxfool: @notlikelytocare: I don't really see how butting heads on twitter with people who she doesn't like and who legitimately don't like her, would stop her from helping people in private. From her Interview Dump Truck and her writing she seems plenty capable of organizing a harassment help line, regardless of what you think about what she tweets.

@notlikelytocare said:

I'm not sure how to respond to this. I'm going to guess no, there probably wasn't talks with GG's harassment patrol.

@thatpinguino: No doubt there. There is nothing preventing her helping others. It is merely speculation on how the organization is viewed by others due to her involvement. Her involvement could help or hinder the goals of the organization as a whole.

For the time being it is a good thing, as it would not exist without her.

@notlikelytocare: The usual bigots and loons are going to weave the exact same webs of nonsense delusions and conspiracy theories that are the impetus for this support group's creation. That shouldn't surprise anyone. Stop with the concern trolling, buddy boy.

I'd like to keep a thread about a support group open as long as possible, because I think this group can do good things for good people. This is a discussion about a support group, not GamerGate, not anyone involved in GamerGate, or anything to do with GamerGate. If I haven't made myself absolutely clear on this point, then an official warning for anyone continuing to discuss matters not related to the support group will receive a warning.

This is a good idea meant to help good people. Continuing to use this as a means to draw ire against individuals involved with it will not be tolerated.

@notlikelytocare: I'm a fairly progressive dude, so I tend to agree with her on a bunch of stuff, so maybe I come at this from a different direction, but I think it's ridiculous to paint anyone as "manufacturing outrage" when speaking on a topic that is important to them. I've been following her for a bit and I find her to be a pretty open book about her feelings, doubts, and motivations. She has admitted her brain problems, talked about making bad choices growing up, and has apologized when using inappropriate language. To be an admittedly flawed person trying to create art can be tough (I can relate), but she has given talks on healing through gaming, created a resource for people learning to make games, and is making a serious effort to help about people affected by hate by using whats she learned as a target. Whatever her motivations, if I only judge her on her actions, she is someone who I think is as qualified as anyone else.

I can only hope that this is a big success. 2014 was a bad year for my family in general, and making me want to stop partaking in my favorite hobby certainly didn't help any. Hopefully we can get our shit together this year and start being decent people again.

@alkaiser said:

You know, 99% of us didn't stop being decent people. We just, you know, kept playing video games.

@alkaiser: I think the first step towards making a better community is being the change you want to see. If you see someone doing something cool then congratulate them and spur them on. If you see someone being a jerk then tell them that what they are doing isn't cool. If everyone is a little more vocal in boosting the positives and stopping the negatives we can improve GB's already awesome community and hopefully the internet at large.

@oldirtybearon: I would guess it is closer to 99.9%, but the point still stands.

"Experienced survivors," really? I mean its a good sentiment but this makes them sound like combat vets or people who lived through horrific car accidents

Anyway I like the initiative but that bit in the beginning just gets to me

I wish I had that much faith in people, but I really don't. I've seen some gross shit since I've started paying more attention over the years and it only seems to get worse, no matter how much you say "Hey, stop doing that awful thing."

Edit: Also, I have a personal problem with the fan wank that goes on in with GiantBomb users in general, but that might be more of a reflection of my own bitterness.

Hope this works out!

Have you seen the shit Zoe and others have had to put up with when it comes to harassment? Or the doxxing and swatting? I don't think that language is too dramatic if you keep that in mind.

@alkaiser: You gotta have faith in people! Even if you don't stop a jerk from being a jerk you can at least let the person they hurt know that you won't stand for jerkiness. Standing with someone getting harassed and standing against harassers is a very powerful thing, especially in a world where individual harassers can make multiple accounts to attack with. You can flood people with positivity as easily as a jerk can flood someone with negativity. Fight hurt with hugs! Fight insults with compliments!

@giantstalker: Some of the members of CO have certainly earned the term survivor. I would say living through months of people trying to drive you to suicide or trying to ruin your life by any means necessary makes you a survivor. I just think that CO have used terms that actually match some of the actions, even though online attacks tend to be considered lesser than tragedies that happen offline. We don't tend to give as much credence to online threats or attacks, but the damage can be as real and as lasting as traditional offline attacks.

I'm personally not a fan of Wu or Feminist Frequency. I do think assholes who enage in swatting need to be beaten severely.

I've done some douchy shit on the Internet, but I couldn't imagine sending armed police to someone's house to terrorize their family. What the fuck is wrong with people?

Oh, I have all the sympathy in the world for those that have been hurt by terrible people. But man, how can you not just seethe and wonder how some people can just be the absolute worst and feel total justification for everything they do and somehow they garner a huge fan following that will blindly do whatever they say no questions asked. No amount of faith is ever going to fix that. I hate when people downplay how many people out there are doing shitty things by going "Well I'm not shitty, so whats the big deal?"

I dunno, I've seen it happen to multiple people and it seems pretty horrific. I mean, I don't think I'd be able to deal with not being safe at home because of harassment and swatting attempts, or having to protect my parents from swatting and calls day and night about how shitty I am. Besides the immediate and actual danger of swatting as well as some stalker types who tend to be part of internet harassment campaigns, I think just the constant psychological effect of constantly having to check everything, reassure friends and family, protect them as well, explain internet harassment to them, to the police, etc, would be very difficult. Even if they just like, help explain how this works to law enforcement, that would go a long way. A lot of people, quite reasonably, don't want to talk about it, but both Zoe and recently Shanley (on Twitter) have written about this.

That rant out of the way though, I suppose it doesn't really matter if you or I like them or the site, since it isn't for us. Seems like it is helping the people it is for, and I'm glad theres something, It's hard to see this happening to someone and not get angry, but also not be able to do anything.

@alkaiser: Oh I seethe, but then I try my darnedest to do better. I can't stop idiots from doing what they do, but I can call them out on it. Hopefully being called out enough times will make someone actually do some soul searching. In the mean time I can try to create some stuff that hopefully brings some people together or adds something useful to the community. That is why I loved participating in Extra Life and the Giantbomb Community Endurance Run. If enough nice people join up like Voltron you can drive the internet negativity away or just find it easier to ignore.

Also I've read some articles on the type of people who do anonymous internet crap and many of them need help in one way or another. That in no way justifies what they do or how they seek attention. However, when you try to think of what kind of trauma would make an internet monster, you can't help but feel some sympathy. Not to mention how many of those internet assholes are actually kids with inadequate supervision and big mouths.

It's a shame that a few assholes can ruin the entire internet for some people, I hope the people who do things like swatting get their fucking face bashed in.

@sirfork: I don't know about face bashing, but they do go to jail! Swatting is illegal. In fact someone was sentenced to 5 years in jail recently for it.

@thatpinguino said:

I can't recall where I read this, but there seems to be some evidence out there suggesting most online harassers are in their 20s and 30s. I can't even begin to describe how depressing that is, assuming it's accurate.

@thatpinguino: That's good to hear, I hope these guys getting locked up becomes more common.