Some of the worst controls in an AAA game

@nevergameover: my main point is that I enjoy it and that if people don't like it, I understand but what I don't understand is people suddenly losing the concept of opinion and creators' intent. They made a design choice to be weighty and by all accounts from criticism it seems they nailed that. Again, I enjoy the decision they made and I think the gameplay reflects that for me.

It's like going to an Italian restaurant and complaining they don't have pancakes. You have a whole building full of people enjoying pasta then you have people being like "well it's not pancakes so it's bad. I wanted pancakes."

At the end of the day, I would like to know, is this game actually FUN?

Or does it feel like chores (I'm thinking going to the gym in GTA San Andreas) and bad controls?

@zman8: I haven't done one thing in this game that has felt like a chore, even mundane tasks have been really engaging to me.

But I also don't think the controls are busted, so if you've walked away from a Rockstar game in the past with that feeling then a lot of that will probably transfer onto this.

From this thread alone you can see thats a difficult question to answer. I would say it is fun, as I've been really enjoying it for the past two days - in fact it's one of those rare games that I just can't seem to put down. Seriously I think I spent the entire past two days glued to my TV.

The "cores" that you have to maintain are a weird addition but it's not really a problem. You regularly get into gunfights and when looting bodies will equally regularly find food items or tonics that fill those cores up. It's something you engage with once an hour or something as opposed to micro-managing meters every 2 minutes like a survival game.

The mission variety is fun and while this is still a videogame so most of your activities eventually result in shooting a guy, the narrative wrapper is great. Whether you go retrieve and old flames brother from a turtle-following cult or engaging in a simple Wanted poster mission that ends up with you chasing your victim as they float down the rapids, there is always a hook somewhere that doesn't make it feel like you're basically checking off a box on a list.

The controls and general feel of the game can be a make or break situation. If you don't like animation heavy games, and prefer snappy gameplay over engaging narrative then Red Dead 2 will drive you crazy.

its more like going to an italian restaurant and all the food they serve is frozen solid because thats just their thing and half of the people are like "why do they even have an oven if they're not gonna use it to cook their food?"

hot tip: holding the start button/menu button will take you straight to the map.

I was really not feeling the game until i switched my controls to "standard FPS". so much better. i was saying to myself when i started the game, "man, i hope they updated the control scheme. i hate tapping the a/x button to run/sprint." and i guess they sorta did.

@darkjohnny477: Oh shiiiiiiit, game changer. Thank you, kind sir.

This exactly - I'm very tempted to just go back to AC:Origins (which I was in the middle of). But I just blew $90 CAD on this game and think I'm going to mainline it as much as possible. I can't think of a game in recent memory that controls as poorly as this.

@zman8: I think sticking to the main quests would be fun. I was having a ton of fun at the beginning with the more linear story. As soon as I got in the open world, I found myself struggling with the controls more and more. I also don't really understand why I'm engaging in the side activities because I don't really know what it is in service of. It's not really fun and it doesn't feel like my character is improving in any way.

@zman8: I have been struggling to put the game down and when I’m not playing it, it’s all I can think about. The controls are odd but I got used to them pretty quickly and I haven’t really struggled with them since.

I don't have any issues with the controls. They seem fairly similar to GTA V, which I also had no issues with. The movement does feel slow after playing Assassin's Creed Origins and Spiderman recently, but this is a completely different game than those so it makes sense that it would feel a lot slower.

You have to press R2 to cock your rifle. I love the controls!

Only issue I'm having is with the radial menu inventory management. Why they have you release a button to use something as opposed to hitting A/X mystifies me.

I was just going to mention this for those who are having trouble with the shooting - most of the weapons are double-action, so the game wants you to press R2 once to cock the weapon and R2 again to fire. It's kind of a neat bit of realism, but also feels a off if you are expecting it to happen automatically.

The controls was one of the main worries I had but being able to change them up is a relief.

@mems1224: if the food was frozen solid it would be inedible and by comparison RDR2 isn’t “unplayable” by any means.

I get that you don’t like the game but all your comparisons are extremely hyperbolic.

I've had a few problems with the controls, but I imagine you'll all think they were my own fault.

I was heading out to a mission, and I found a woman trapped by a horse that fell on her. I went to look, and she was asking me to help her up, but there was NO prompts whatsoever, so I just started pushing buttons. I pushed circle, and kicked her to death. I thought this was pretty stupid. Also, there was nobody around for miles, but I still have a bounty on my head for killing her. Frustrating.

Furthermore, I was doing that mission where you hunt out Colm O'Driscoll in the little shack, where the lad directs you. The game suggests you go stealthy, so I did. I knifed the first guy, then got a throwing knife ready and killed another. I then thought " I'll use my bow to take out the rest". I went to the next guy, and aimed at him. Little did I know, a cutscene had happened, and the game automatically changed to my pistol. So I naturally held L2 to aim and R2 to fire, when I realised I had my gun out, and I'd alert the whole camp. There's no way (that I've been told) to holster your gun once you've got it aimed and cocked at someone, so I had to just fire and attract the whole camp.

It's VERY minor problems, but I don't feel the game does a very good job explaining things

I have fantasized about a game where I drive the speed limit, walk down the side walk, nod kindly to nice looking people, make fun of my friends and sit in on weird conversations only to offer my opinion when the window of opportunity opens.

Usually I have to stretch my imagination a bit, or impose on myself. Red Dead Redemption 2 is the first game I've played where that feels like the proper course of action. I love the feel of rolling into town, hopping off my horse, grabbing the reigns and just walking it, slooooooowly, from the town entrance to the saloon, then sitting down and playing cards for two hours.

I suppose the controls can be awkward at times (a forester asked me $75 for a wagon's worth of timber, and rather than barter with him I shoved a slug of shotgun ammo into his chest for free) but I find it charming.

I don't mean to be snarky but I've woken up with a bit of a hangover: my advice? The bow looks a lot different than the guns do. And obviously there's no way to take back a bullet, but if you're aiming your gun the easiest way to stop aiming your gun is to let go of the button that makes you point it at people.

This reminds me of a complaint I've heard Brad, Dan and Alex all levy against this game at various points on video and in podcasts, that they mean only to aim their gun at somebody but end up shooting them. Because they kept mentioning this I set out to make note of it when it happened, and while I can say I've fired my gun without intent, both times it was because I hit R2 and fired from the hip when I meant to hit L2 and talk to somebody. Both caused very entertaining situations, but because I've been on the lookout for what the GB team was describing, I've realized they're probably talking about when you're in a conversation with somebody and decide to aim your weapon at them.

What I imagine was happening to them is they're continuing to hold R2 after aiming their weapon because the game doesn't make it exceptionally clear that once you've aimed your weapon that's it; it's like a "skip to the end" sort of mechanic and there's no going back from it, so at that point you're meant to continue holding L2 to keep your weapon out and aimed, with R2 reverting back to the trigger function. It's not necessarily self-explanatory but I do think it's fairly intuitive.

Reducing the deadzone in the controls for camera/looking and aiming helps with the input lag with the camera. The movement is still weird though.

Plays fine...

In fact unlike in GTA the controls having so much weight really fits the setting for me.

I am also finding the controls and menu options to be frustrating and not easy to use. The weapons or item selection wheels can and often do lead to accidental use. I like the game so far but im not married to a 5 star rating yet. Maybe I will be as I get used to the controls. Just walking and trying to speed up is a pain in the butt.

I actually love the controls, switching to standard FPS resolved all my minor grievances. But I've always liked how Rockstar games handle going back all the way to GTA3 so maybe its just stockholm syndrome or something. Still, I wouldn't want this to control like Assassin's Creed or the Witcher. Its a different thing, and I think they nailed the balance between immersion and utility.

@humanity: I never said I didn't like the game

I'm not really having an issue with the controls. After thinking about it, I wonder if it has to do with one's disposition coming into this game. I think they're bad controls for an action game, but the fiddly nuance and manual inputs is really good for a roleplaying game, and I think that's closer to what RDR2 is. The "clunkiness," for me at least, makes everything feel more weighty and tactile. The character feels like he's exerting effort to climb over things, heft himself up hills, or pick up anything. I would haaate it if an action game had those kinds of pace-stops, or made me hold or tap buttons to move faster than a walk, but since I'm here for the world simulation, I find myself appreciating that running feels *kind of difficult*, that every action has to be so deliberate.

It works for me, anyhoo.

No, I don't think that's accurate. It's like going to olive garden with your friends and never enjoying it. And you're the guy they stop inviting to olive garden because you never shut up about the food that's exactly the same as it's always been. Food which doesn't suit your taste, and that's fine.

Or like a person I knew who would keep inviting himself over to watch football with everyone even though he hated football. He'd inevitably start complaining after half an hour and leave, and everyone else carried on merrily.

@crazybagman: well yea, that particular olive garden hasn't cleaned its kitchen in 20 years and the people blindly eating there still because it's a big name restaurant are insane.

After changing the control scheme, the camera correction options, and the stick deadzones, the controls still aren’t up to modern standards, but it is definitely much more bearable. I’m really hoping a PC version comes out with controls similar to GTA V.

@mems1224: Well then my mistake I’m glad you’re having fun with it.

I get it that looting is slow it's kind of made for you to get caught by a bystander or a law enforcement guy. But man the shooting controls especially holstering / drawing / focus on a guy to speak to them is terrible, how many times i accidentally shot off a dudes head cause i wanted to help him is ridicules. Movement is fine imo but then i liked the witchers 3 movement witch was universally hated.

@octaslash: yea, I can't get the sensitivity right. I generally play shooters with a high sensitivity and it just feels bad no matter what I put it at. I was messing with the sensitivity for like an hour the other day.

I have to separate "the controls" into two entities: how controlling Arthur feels, and how these controls are mapped to the buttons.

I think the feeling of the controls, the weight behind them, and the fact that animation has priority over input fits this game perfectly. I stopped in the middle of AC Odyssey and switched over to this game and I don't think there could be two games that are similar and yet have such a different feel. Everything in Odyssey is snappy. Moving around, swinging weapons, looting containers - all very quick. I think that kind of control would be very out of place in this game which has been designed to be very slow and deliberate.

Where Rockstar has always faltered has been mapping controls to buttons. Let's say you're on horseback and you want to pull out your lantern:

1. Hold LB to open the wheel
2. Tap RB to switch tabs
3. Hold right stick at the proper slot (now you're holding two buttons)
4. RT to switch to the lantern
5. Release LB to equip the lantern (releasing to select is never good design, sorry)

I mean, c'mon. That could be streamlined down to two buttons: while on horseback hold LT for the context menu, press a button to equip the lantern. Done. Whoever works on the button mapping over at Rockstar needs a stern talking to.

The controls are definitely awkward, and the way they change the function of buttons is really horrible. I actually wonder if they kept it in because it will cause people to punch horses and knife strangers and shoot at people by accident, just because it'll create chaos. And then of course they post the clip on twitter or facebook. How many other games do you play where everybody has a story about doing something unintentionally because of the controls? It's crazy.

My main problem is just that there isn't an overriding logic to the buttons that you can rely on. So everything that happens you have to laser in on the bottom right on the screen to check what button to press this time. Is this going to be a normal interaction or will L2 pull my gun, or will R2 fire my gun, or will it draw it and then I have to press again to shoot, or will I have to press a d-pad direction to do something this time? In a game that is supposed to be all about immersion this often completely breaks it for me. If the controls were reliable you could just play without any on screen prompts at all, but imagine the chaos if you got rid of them.

@gerrid: Changing functions is something I forgot to mention. You draw your weapon with LT and shoot with RT so why on Earth do you slowly pull RT to draw your weapon when in a duel? We should be slowly pulling LT so that it's consistent with the rest of the game.

Complaining about the controls and UI in this game feels like complaining that Schindler’s List was in black and white. Completely missing the point.

Played a good bit more yesterday. The controls are still an issue, but I'm enjoying it more than I was. Still don't understand how this has a 97 on metacritic, but I'm not feeling like I wasted my money anymore, so that's a plus.

@ntm: Settings - Camera - "Camera Follow Level" is what you're looking for. The name makes it sound like the camera height but it controls how fast it auto-centers if at all.

@franstone: No, that's only in the third person, unfortunately. It doesn't work in the first person on the horse. I turned that off right when I started the game. It doesn't bother me too much, but still. They did add in the ability to turn it off when driving cars in GTA 5 however, so maybe they'll update this game to 'fix' that.

Or maybe people just like different things than you? Why is that such a difficult concept?

I'm a little bit into chapter 2 and I'm fed up with the controls. Unless they release some kind of patch or do something I'm waiting for the pc version for better framerate and more responsive controls. Everything else about it is fantastic. The controls are horrible. Walking and running around is tolerable, gunplay is awful. What a shame.

Have to agree with the OP. The controls are the worst part of this game. I have accidentally shot people so many times when I meant to talk to them and when I really want to shoot someone my gun never draws. The input lag in this game is very bad. They need to increase the detection area of button prompts because if you are not perfectly lined up, they will not show up. I wasted an hour doing a treasure hunt because I missed the pixel sized search spot so many times I thought the game was bugged.

Also why the hell do you not keep your equipped weapons when getting off your horse or after doing an action? Too many times I got of my horse and all I had was my pistol when I got off.

This game could have been a 10 but with all the control issues its more of a 7 IMHO.

I've never liked most Rockstar games because of this single issue. For such a massive company to still not be able to get this right just baffles me. This has been a issue since GTA III and seems like it's more of the usual with their games.

This game seems like something I would have loved when I was 15 and had summer vacations and no job. As others have stated, the slow pace and awkward controls are conflicting with my 1-2 hour play sessions. Going to camp can take 5 mins when it should take 5 seconds. When rolling up to town to sell something I have to walk instead of run, lest I run the risk of bumping into someone, getting a stupid bounty, and having to run away. At which point, my hide has rotted and I have to go hunt another one to sell. Thus repeating the whole process.

If the controls felt better, I think I could get away with these slow, weighty controls. But they're slow AND clunky, which is my biggest gripe. As Jeff has stated before, some games just have a certain 'feel' to them. In RDR2's case, I think the feel is all wrong. Certain contextual prompts don't appear when they should. Just about every prompt is a button hold as opposed to a press. I'm constantly having issues in the menu where I'm not using the items I select, or forgetting what items are in which slot. All of those things add up to a game that just feels bad.

I get why some people like this game, and I can see myself enjoying it back in the day. But at this point in my life, I don't know how much longer I can keep beating my head against this wall. It's a shame, because they absolutely nailed the tone and atmosphere. But goddammit is it a slow, laborious chore to play. It's crazy...two weeks ago I never thought I'd say this, but here it is. I think Red Dead Redemption 2 is a better game than AC: Odyssey in many ways...yet I'd way rather be playing AC: Odyssey at this point I think...

@big_denim: All your criticisms are my favorite parts. It does seem this game is meant to be obsessed over, i played 35 hours over the weekend and now that the workweek is back, about 5 hours at night. If you're a more casual player, maybe its not for you. Sorry to hear it, because this game has me feeling like a teenager in love.

The fuck? This game has amazing controls for what it wants to be. Every action and every move is deliberate and the weight and time behind it works to 100% in the game's favor.

Like you gotta hold to loot, because the action itself takes time. Arthur bends down, picks up the guy and searches his pockets before dropping him again. Its different from just running over corpses and pressing the loot button while the "cachink" sound plays.

Not to mention that it would make peopel freak out why looting would take so much time when you just have to press a button. Then this topic would be "why cant we skip the loot animation". but this isnt the game for that kind of stuff. Same way this game doesn thave dodge rolling and close up over the shoulder shooting. And its better for it.

You could skip skinning and looting animations in RDR1, and that was literally this kind of game. Making the looting a bit quicker or letting us adjust more settings to our personal preferences would do nothing to harm the integrity of its realism. And what about the things in RDR2 that aren't realistically slow? Can you open and eat a tin of peaches in two seconds whilst on a horse? What would be the difference?

Defending decisions is okay if you aren't bothered by them, but this attitude some people are taking with it like we 'don't get it' or something is just as annoying as someone calling you an apologist of shitty controls.

My new annoyance is having to hold L2 and left on the d-pad to brush my horse; that feels really awkward for me one-handed. It might be the most uncomfortable combination possible on a DS4 considering how long it can take to get them brushed clean. I'd make all of those commands hold L2 and a button on the right of the controller (R2, R1, any face button, RS).

I kicked a dog I was trying to pet on accident. A witness runs off and I have a wanted level for animal cruelty. RDR2's control scheme is SO BAD that they made me kick a dog!

I'm only a couple hours in, but the deliberate nature of the controls kind of took me by surprise. Seemingly every action is a button hold, there are a lot more systems to manage, and the movement is real slow. It's like RDR1 was an open world action game and RDR2 has way more sim elements. I need to play some more to really formulate my opinion on whether or not I like what they've done with RDR2. Whichever side you fall on this, please realize it's only your opinion. Some people in this thread need to take that to heart.

I get the argument for some this control scheme "you get used to because of the flow of the game and then you just get sucked in to the world." My response: how much sooner would you have enjoyed the game, gotten sucked into the open world, and flow of the game if the controls were actually responsive? Methinks, a lot sooner.