Did Resident Evil Die with RE4?

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#1 Posted by LouChou (491 posts) -

Just to kick this question off in the right way, I want to make it clear that I think RE4 is a phenomenal game. It's hands down one of the best action games I've ever played, and I'm sure there are folk out there who would agree. 
 
A thought I've had for a long time though, is whether RE4 truly is a Resident Evil experience? It's such a giant leap from the rules and conventions of its older siblings that it practically launched a new franchise. The Resident Evil experience, for me, WAS the tank-like control system, it WAS the obscured, static camera, and it WAS the way you'd enter a room and, after the legendary load screen of the door opening, pray to fuckin' jebus you didn't hear the squelch and moan of a zombie somewhere off-camera. Everything worked in tandem to make you feel truly vulnerable, and craft an experience that had you frightened to go past the next door. 
 
I understand how bankable the move to third-person action was, and it was an astute answer to declining sales and interest in the series. Capcom pretty much reinvented the RE name. But, to wrap this up, my question ultimately is whether anyone believes it'd be possible for Capcom to bring back that old style Resident Evil experience? Whether there is a way to refresh or update that completely unique experience? Or whether there's even a place for it now?

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#2 Posted by QuistisTrepe (633 posts) -

Yes, Resident Evil 4 was a true RE experience. This topic was settled back in 2005. Can we move on from this please? Now RE5, that's another story. It was a serviceable game that I would have no desire to play through again.

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#3 Posted by Sauson (585 posts) -

The series "died" when they stopped using zombies and made it less about resource management.

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#4 Posted by Grumbel (1010 posts) -

Resident Evil 4 still has tank controls, the only thing that really changes in the controls is that you can now aim analog, instead of the stupid up/center/down digital aim in the other Resident Evils. In terms of gameplay, I don't think it is the obscure cameras that define Resident Evil, its the free form exploration. In the early Resident Evil games there is nothing that pulls you into any specific direction, you simply go explore the house, unlock a door here and there and solve a whole bunch of puzzles. All of that is missing in Resident Evil 4 and 5, puzzles are barely existing, backtracking is close to non-existent and everything is very focused on getting from A to B. Another thing that changed in RE4 is the story, it simply had nothing to do with the previous games, there was still Leon, but he didn't behave like Leon, the whole setting felt odd and un-RE like. Resident Evil 5 returned a bit to what I expect from a RE game story wise, but still wasn't all to interesting. 
 
Anyway, all that said: Yes, RE pretty much died with RE4, in RE5 there are a few things that link back to the original games (especially the DLC), but its all not very well developed and its still mostly a RE4 game, then classic RE.

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#5 Posted by LouChou (491 posts) -
@QuistisTrepe said:
Yes, Resident Evil 4 was a true RE experience. This topic was settled back in 2005. Can we move on from this please? Now RE5, that's another story. It was a serviceable game that I would have no desire to play through again.
Why do you think it's a true experience? Furthermore, what do you consider a true RE experience; what's the criteria? 
 
(I too was pretty much apathetic towards RE5)
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#6 Posted by LouChou (491 posts) -
@Grumbel: I'll agree that the controls are still relatively tank-inspired, but you the player have a hell of a lot more control over your experience, and ultimately your survival. The old school RE controls didn't put you in a position where you can line up shots with any real confidence, aiming was skewed in such a way that you aimed in the general direction you thought you needed to and hoped you'd connect. 
 
You're right about the experience in RE4 taking you from A to B with no real backstepping. And it seemed to me like that was a reaction to the old style of game, and indeed yet another reason that RE4 lacks the RE spirit as defined by the previous games.
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#7 Posted by DetectiveSpecial (472 posts) -

Yes.

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#8 Posted by valrog (3741 posts) -

I never got to play the older ones, so I wouldn't know whether it's a "true" Resident Evil game or not. That being said, I love Resident Evil 4 and Resident Evil 5, so I guess my idea of a Resident Evil game might differ from yours...

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#9 Posted by JJOR64 (19693 posts) -

No.  They are still making RE games aren't they?

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#10 Posted by LouChou (491 posts) -
@valrog: in that case, you've got a pretty interesting perspective on this. I'd be very interested in knowing how you found one of the older games, although, given that you're so fond of the games from RE4 onwards I'm thinking maybe you'd get a bit impatient with the way the old school games played out.
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#11 Posted by Nekroskop (2830 posts) -

Didn't RE4 have the original RE director? I heard something in the vain of him coming back just for that game.

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#12 Posted by HandsomeDead (11853 posts) -

Resident Evil 5 is the real killer. RE4 took the gameplay in the right direction and the story in the wrong direction but RE5 ruined both in irredeemable ways.

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#13 Posted by Rolyatkcinmai (2763 posts) -

No it continued with 5.

I would also wager there will be a six.

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#14 Posted by Klei (1798 posts) -

The designers of RE wanted to follow a very logical pattern ; evolution. Since the dawn of video games, the one thing that most designers want to do is to change things, to bring them even further. That's what happened with RE. After All the tank-like RE's, most of them lost their charm and very little people hold dearly in their hearts games like Code : Veronica and RE: 0. 
 
So to change things up, they created RE4 and 5. And just like everything else in this world, there will be people happy about it, and people who won't and say that their favorite games have been '' ruined ''. 
 
Like most things, most people hate change. Change is weird, different, and pops the comfort bubble.

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#15 Posted by valrog (3741 posts) -
@LouChou: If I'm correct, only Code Veronica is on the PS2 of the older games, no? Either way, my situation is... a rather delicate one. I wanted to try the older games, but because PS2 is region locked, I would have to acquire it overseas and that might prove a little difficult at the time. So I'm still hoping for a Collection or something. I'll have to check out with my friend if he owns any of the games.
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#16 Edited by Sooty (8193 posts) -
@mephisto said:

Code Veronica was the last true RE game imo.   RE4 wasn't really Resident Evil

+1
 
They should really just steal the feel of Dead Space, without the dismembering mechanic and go back to the Umbrella storyline with zombies, dogs and them other rad mutants from Resident Evil 1 to Code Veronica.
 
After that it just gets a bit silly... (4 and 5)
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#17 Posted by Zippedbinders (1198 posts) -

RE4 transformed the series into something I actually wanted to play. I have a copy of the original RE for PS1, oversized rectangle box at that, and even back in the day I hated how it controlled. After hearing everything about RE4, I jumped right into it and loved it. Granted, its missing the dank urban environments and zambies, but it gave that series a fresh gameplay overhaul, which is what it needed for me. I have no problem watching my friend play through REmake, but I just know I want NOTHING to do with playing it. I had zero interest in RE5 after seeing the changes (or perhaps lack there of) it made from RE4. I'm interested in the 3DS RE, the one on the ship, but that's probably just to see those graphics on a 3DS. 
 
So, in a way, I guess it died with Code Veronica, but that hasn't stopped Capcom from setting a million things in the RE universe.

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#18 Edited by GunstarRed (6052 posts) -

Code Veronica was  terrible,  And if anything RE4 made  that series  the best it's ever been. I don't know how anyone could ask if  it died with 4, it's different but  very much a Resident Evil game. Item management, creepy atmosphere, stupid keys for doors, enemies that rush you down in tight spaces, yup, totally a Resident Evil game.  
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#19 Posted by deactivated-5a1a3d3c6820c (3235 posts) -

@Klei said:

Like most things, most people hate change. Change is weird, different, and pops the comfort bubble.

I really hate when people say this, as it seems to suggest that change is always a good thing.

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#20 Posted by TheGreatGuero (8881 posts) -

Somebody must have skipped Resident Evil 5. Also a great game. As good as RE4? No, but RE4's one of the best games I've ever played...

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#21 Posted by BraveToaster (12636 posts) -

This thread is proof that we don't like changes in franchises we love.

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#22 Edited by Jaalmo (1752 posts) -

You people complain about Call of Duty recycling the same formula yet you complain that RE takes a new direction. Grow up.

Online
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#23 Edited by ShaggE (9300 posts) -

I wish they had taken the RE branding out of RE4 and 5. They are great games that a lot of folks look down on because they aren't classic survival horror. Not as much with RE4 as with 5, but still.  
 
(I have the same opinion of Silent Hill 4... although it wasn't even great by its own merits, it was solid, at least. It was just awful as a Silent Hill title.)

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#24 Posted by Grumbel (1010 posts) -
@OtakuGamer said:

You people complain about Call of Duty recycling the same formula yet you complain that RE takes a new direction. Grow up.

The problem is that they should have closed the series long long ago. RE1, 2, 3, CV have more or less connected story line, then comes RE4 which is basically "other stuff that happened 5 years later or whatever". They should have simply made it a new series instead of ham fisting it into the RE franchise.
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#25 Posted by xaLieNxGrEyx (2646 posts) -
@HandsomeDead said:
Resident Evil 5 is the real killer. RE4 took the gameplay in the right direction and the story in the wrong direction but RE5 ruined both in irredeemable ways.

 
This man speaks the truth. Nothing left to see here.
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#26 Posted by LouChou (491 posts) -

I don't think anyone's answered the question whether there's a place for old school RE in modern gaming? I mean, there are still a lot of people around who look at that old school RE gameplay and want to experience something akin to that again - something that's not scratching the kind of itch a game like Dead Space would, or the current RE games are even coming close to.
 
Is old school RE so far away that we consider it a relic? If, say, Capcom developed an XBLA game using that old school method would people be interested? Would it have to be at a DLC price point to get people's interest?

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#27 Posted by xMP44x (2227 posts) -

I enjoyed playing Resident Evil 5 at a friend's house, and I would be interested in buying the Gold Edition of the game for the lowest possible price.

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#28 Posted by carlthenimrod (1638 posts) -

I think a lot of people remember the older RE games being scarier than they actually were. We were all younger and the gaming landscape was a lot different then. Going back to bad controls and static camera angles aren't going to make those games scarey again.

What they really need to do is ditch the main RE cast and start a new storyline. It's not scarey playing as Chris or Leon because you feel so empowered at this point. You might as well be playing as Solid Snake or Batman.

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#29 Posted by copycatzen (819 posts) -

@OtakuGamer said:

You people complain about Call of Duty recycling the same formula
yet you complain that RE takes a new direction. Grow up.

This

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#30 Posted by HitmanAgent47 (8553 posts) -

The answer is yes. Those who thinks resident evil 5 is good, is probally their first resident evil game and only cares about action not horror.

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#31 Posted by MiamiRedHawks (930 posts) -

Yup.

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#32 Posted by ArbitraryWater (15746 posts) -

Is it 2005 again? Are we really going to pretend that the storyline of the Resident Evil series has any sort of actual narrative merit? Because it doesn't, and this is coming from someone who loves all of those games. (Except Code Veronica. That game gets far too much praise, and I suspect it has to do with some seriously misplaced Dreamcast nostalgia. Once that re-release hits XBLA people will see what I'm talking about) Resident Evil 4 may not have been the best thing for "survival horror" , but it took a series that was stagnating and made it relevant again.  If anything, the backtrack from the "Reboot of everything but the name" of Resident Evil 4 to the "Alright, let's finish up this stupid convoluted plotline for reals" of RE5 is a far more damning thing to look upon for the series as a whole. 
 
However, the gameplay is what the gameplay is. You can't honestly make a game with that old style anymore and expect it to sell. That's not to say that I wouldn't want another game of that type to be made (like, a REmake style remake of Resident Evil 2), but it's never going to happen.

Online
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#33 Edited by hockeymask27 (3700 posts) -
@HandsomeDead said:

Resident Evil 5 is the real killer. RE4 took the gameplay in the right direction and the story in the wrong direction but RE5 ruined both in irredeemable ways.

Couldn't put better myself. So I won't try.
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#34 Posted by AjayRaz (12904 posts) -

i wouldn't say so at all. i'd say the series changed, but it didn't die. 

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#35 Posted by Pibo47 (3238 posts) -
Traditional RE died with 4. But i dont think that means RE is dead, or died at any point. it just changed. Hopefully it will continue to change...but maybe into something more like 4..ish???
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#36 Posted by HandsomeDead (11853 posts) -
@ArbitraryWater said:
Is it 2005 again? Are we really going to pretend that the storyline of the Resident Evil series has any sort of actual narrative merit? Because it doesn't, and this is coming from someone who loves all of those games. 
Not to go too far off-topic, but I think that with a game series like Resident Evil, the actual quality of the narrative should be critically addressed rather than palmed off with an 'It doesn't matter.' Video games seems to be the only medium where egregious storytelling failures are glossed over rather than tackled, and the reason I mention this specifically is that Resident Evil 5 did it so badly that it retroactively made me feel like an idiot for being roped into giving a shit about what happened to the characters, because Capcom obviously didn't.
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#37 Posted by redbliss (669 posts) -

Considering RE5 was a really good game, I would have to say no.

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#38 Posted by redbliss (669 posts) -
@HandsomeDead said:
Resident Evil 5 is the real killer. RE4 took the gameplay in the right direction and the story in the wrong direction but RE5 ruined both in irredeemable ways.
I never played RE4, but the gameplay looks almost identical to that of RE5. Am I right in this assessment, or not? I just dont understand why people are saying the gameplay is worse in RE5 when it looks pretty much the same as the gameplay in RE4.
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#39 Posted by McBEEF (375 posts) -

RE4 was the first RE game I played-it was really good- but I was still disappointed that it dodnt have 'real' zombies. Surely its the zombies that make a RE game? 
 
if there was a remake of RE with the controls and mechanics of RE4 then itd be fantastic

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#40 Posted by Skullo (689 posts) -

Resident Evil 4 was awesome. All the changes that happened to RE during RE4 happened because Capcom was desperate to keep RE a relevant title in the gaming landscape. It has all the things a causal and a hard core gamer could want. RE4 is a once in a generation thing.  You can actually argue that the HD's RE4 was the original Dead Space. Dead Space aside, we won't see another game like RE4 in along ass time.  RE5 was a completely overhyped DLC platform. Like the story line in RE4 is less ridiculous than RE5 and that says alot about how bad RE5's storyline is. 

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#41 Posted by HandsomeDead (11853 posts) -
@redbliss said:
@HandsomeDead said:
Resident Evil 5 is the real killer. RE4 took the gameplay in the right direction and the story in the wrong direction but RE5 ruined both in irredeemable ways.
I never played RE4, but the gameplay looks almost identical to that of RE5. Am I right in this assessment, or not? I just dont understand why people are saying the gameplay is worse in RE5 when it looks pretty much the same as the gameplay in RE4.
I think it's the exact regurgitation of set pieces and narrative elements make the gameplay feel stale and then the co-op feature devalue a lot of what made RE4 an intense experience. And this is not taking into account how much third person action games have progressed since then.
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#42 Posted by Icemael (6876 posts) -
@redbliss said:
@HandsomeDead said:
Resident Evil 5 is the real killer. RE4 took the gameplay in the right direction and the story in the wrong direction but RE5 ruined both in irredeemable ways.
I never played RE4, but the gameplay looks almost identical to that of RE5. Am I right in this assessment, or not? I just dont understand why people are saying the gameplay is worse in RE5 when it looks pretty much the same as the gameplay in RE4.
Capcom's implementation of co-op is what ruined it. Because of the way co-op was handled, you have to deal with a shitty inventory system while babysitting a retarded AI partner in the single player mode. (Sure, Resident Evil 4 had Ashley, but only in certain parts and most of the time she stayed right behind your back where you barely even noticed her. Sheva, meanwhile, will run around, pick up ammo you want -- forcing you to use the shitty inventory system to have her give it to you -- and get herself killed while wasting countless bullets on body shots.)
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#43 Posted by Hzaife (166 posts) -

RE5 was no RE game, and now im sick of the deviations and bullshit excuse for a story that they have employed.
 
Why would i play RE on a hand held.. surely this is a console experience? RE is my all time fav franchise and im pretty un happy about where it gone.

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#44 Posted by LouChou (491 posts) -
@Hzaife said:
RE5 was no RE game, and now im sick of the deviations and bullshit excuse for a story that they have employed.  Why would i play RE on a hand held.. surely this is a console experience? RE is my all time fav franchise and im pretty un happy about where it gone.
I don't mind RE being on handheld. Plug-in some headphones and I guess it's possible to get the right sense of atmosphere, depending on how good sound is on your 3DS, of course (I've yet to use one). If anything, an old school RE experience would fit onto handheld pretty decently as people won't be expecting the big action set-pieces and lush graphics - instead they'll be more open to the playing style of the game.
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#45 Posted by Hizang (9358 posts) -

Resident Evil 4 is where the Resident Evil series truely begins.

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#46 Posted by makari (674 posts) -

@HandsomeDead said:

@ArbitraryWater said:
Is it 2005 again? Are we really going to pretend that the storyline of the Resident Evil series has any sort of actual narrative merit? Because it doesn't, and this is coming from someone who loves all of those games.
Not to go too far off-topic, but I think that with a game series like Resident Evil, the actual quality of the narrative should be critically addressed rather than palmed off with an 'It doesn't matter.' Video games seems to be the only medium where egregious storytelling failures are glossed over rather than tackled, and the reason I mention this specifically is that Resident Evil 5 did it so badly that it retroactively made me feel like an idiot for being roped into giving a shit about what happened to the characters, because Capcom obviously didn't.

What are you talking about? Every Resident Evil ever has just been traditional B-movie tropes up until Code Veronica which turned Wesker into Neo from the Matrix. The narrative has never been quality, it's just dumb B-movie conspiracy theory bullshit (which is why I like it).

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#47 Edited by Hzaife (166 posts) -
@LouChou said:

@Hzaife said:

RE5 was no RE game, and now im sick of the deviations and bullshit excuse for a story that they have employed.  Why would i play RE on a hand held.. surely this is a console experience? RE is my all time fav franchise and im pretty un happy about where it gone.

I don't mind RE being on handheld. Plug-in some headphones and I guess it's possible to get the right sense of atmosphere, depending on how good sound is on your 3DS, of course (I've yet to use one). If anything, an old school RE experience would fit onto handheld pretty decently as people won't be expecting the big action set-pieces and lush graphics - instead they'll be more open to the playing style of the game.
I can agree with you there, Revelations does look pretty good.. BUT i dont really want to buy another peice of hardware to play ANOTHER RE game on that basically makes no fuckin sense whatsoever from a story point of view. By this time i can honestly say the RE timeline is fucked.. lol
 
I mean god damn, Jill was missing last time, now fucking Chris is missing? i mean really?... more shitty AI babysitting and inventory management? i wanna see them go back and continue the story from Nemesis, the game has taken a turn into left field into the action and set piece style of gameplay which the game was never known for.
 
The Resident Evil Remake and 0 for the cube were the finest survival horror games ever in my opinion, i just wanna see this franchise go back into that direction where i actually feel the tension. Dont get me wrong, i loved RE5 it was a great action game and deserves praise on its own merits but if there was no Chris/Wesker/Jill would it feel like Resident Evil? i dont think so considering those 3 characters are the only thing Resident Evil related in the game.
 
But you know what? this is where Capcom is at nowadays, no wonder Keiji Inafune and Shinji Mikami left, Capcom is a shadow of its former self. If Capcom rebooted the franchise i wouldnt even mind im that much of an RE whore but i only wish they would return to what made RE renowned.
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#48 Posted by LouChou (491 posts) -
@makari said:

@HandsomeDead said:

@ArbitraryWater said:
Is it 2005 again? Are we really going to pretend that the storyline of the Resident Evil series has any sort of actual narrative merit? Because it doesn't, and this is coming from someone who loves all of those games.
Not to go too far off-topic, but I think that with a game series like Resident Evil, the actual quality of the narrative should be critically addressed rather than palmed off with an 'It doesn't matter.' Video games seems to be the only medium where egregious storytelling failures are glossed over rather than tackled, and the reason I mention this specifically is that Resident Evil 5 did it so badly that it retroactively made me feel like an idiot for being roped into giving a shit about what happened to the characters, because Capcom obviously didn't.

What are you talking about? Every Resident Evil ever has just been traditional B-movie tropes up until Code Veronica which turned Wesker into Neo from the Matrix. The narrative has never been quality, it's just dumb B-movie conspiracy theory bullshit (which is why I like it).

That's true. Part of the charm of Resident Evil (at least, with the original game) was how abysmal the voice acting was. And how randomly that synced up with the animations of characters on screen. I remember an instance where you run into Wesker in a corridor, and after he finishes talking he puncuates it by throwing his arm up and down and then doing a kind of quarter turn on the spot before turning back.
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#49 Posted by HandsomeDead (11853 posts) -
@makari said:

@HandsomeDead said:

@ArbitraryWater said:
Is it 2005 again? Are we really going to pretend that the storyline of the Resident Evil series has any sort of actual narrative merit? Because it doesn't, and this is coming from someone who loves all of those games.
Not to go too far off-topic, but I think that with a game series like Resident Evil, the actual quality of the narrative should be critically addressed rather than palmed off with an 'It doesn't matter.' Video games seems to be the only medium where egregious storytelling failures are glossed over rather than tackled, and the reason I mention this specifically is that Resident Evil 5 did it so badly that it retroactively made me feel like an idiot for being roped into giving a shit about what happened to the characters, because Capcom obviously didn't.

What are you talking about? Every Resident Evil ever has just been traditional B-movie tropes up until Code Veronica which turned Wesker into Neo from the Matrix. The narrative has never been quality, it's just dumb B-movie conspiracy theory bullshit (which is why I like it).

Just because it's part of genre fiction, it doesn't mean it can't be well written and have a cohesive beginning, middle and end with characters who actually have character.
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#50 Posted by theoldhouse (437 posts) -

well the old style RE did yeah 
 
But RE4 is one of the best games of last gen and they could still make a good RE game if they move away from full on action and make it atmospheric again.