Hate towards Mario 3D Allstars Unwarranted

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Undeadpool

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#51  Edited By Undeadpool

@petesix0 said:

I've got time for his critics, but

@vaiz said:

Jim Lee's art is godlike.

True true.

However Frank Miller transcribing a year of him snarling into the mirror he keeps dirty on purpose is something so bad that Wikipedia still needs to keep a picture of it up to explain the trauma to the young, like it was a blimp going down.

The best thing that collection did was reveal that the shit we all thought was genius about Dark Knight Returns was accidental (except his keen eye for incredible page-and-panel-pacing, I REALLY wish someone would come along and do it better, but so far no takers), and the shit we chalked up to youthful inexperience was all the shit he did on-purpose.

It's the Star Wars Prequels of comic books.

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BisonHero

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@undeadpool: This seems a fairly accurate assessment of Miller.

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petesix0

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@undeadpool: Very very much. There are antique feelings I have for my past that I sometimes want to purge and some of Frank Miller's work still has fond memories that glimmer in the dark, even though they seem more troubling than they did. And cosign on the pacing. After I left my last comment I wanted to see how he was these days, and the answer is seemingly "better", but Frank does seem to have lived a life.

Guardian Interview from a few years back: Frank Miller: 'I wasn't thinking clearly when I said those things'

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AshuSP

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I bought the collection knowing full well what I was getting and enjoyed playing through Galaxy on the touch screen. It is some excellent emulation efforts for sure but the price makes the arguments and criticism against it deserved.

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Shindig

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I'm actually impressed how the emulation's done. It's really clever how the update textures are done on the fly. The roms themselves are pretty much as they were at release but the emulator slots the new textures in over the top.

Pity they can't airbrush out those debug boxes out of the secret shine stages in Sunshine, though.

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Undeadpool

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@petesix0: Glad he's showing SOME remorse, but...I dunno, DK3: THE MASTER RACE maybe isn't the make-good we all wanted. And yeah, it's still stunning to see how immaculate the pacing on his stuff is. Ronin, Sin City, Dark Knight Returns, and I love that there were two pages in that Wolverine series with Claremont where he practically said, "Chris...shut the fuck up for these pages...I want them to FLOW" and they're the best pages in that entire mini-series.

And STILL people try to cram entire monologues into a single panel of what's supposed to be action...

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petesix0

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sweetz

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#58  Edited By sweetz

The criticism is justified. When Activision of all companies puts out completely remade and well done collections of PS1 era Spyro and Crash games for $40, you know it's poor when you put out three bare bones ports/emulations for $60. Collection is fine (in a better than nothing sense), but price and limited time availability is not and you've really got to be drinking Kool-Aid from the cult of Nintendo to defend it.

@shindig said:

I'm actually impressed how the emulation's done. It's really clever how the update textures are done on the fly. The roms themselves are pretty much as they were at release but the emulator slots the new textures in over the top.

That's been possible with N64 emulators in particular for many years. There are multiple high res texture packs for Mario 64, Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask out there. The textures come in packs that are loaded in at runtime using a stock ROM.

There are ones that out there that attempt to completely change the look of the game (to varying degrees of success), for example, this Yoshi's Island inspired one:

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1337W422102

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Yeah, how dare people be unsatisfied with a half-assed re-release that doesn't contain nearly enough games and released in too few numbers. There's nothing there to be upset about.

Now stop acting questions, stop having your own opinions, and keep pretending that access to ROMs of games you already own and network functionality are somehow deserving of a paid membership...

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Onemanarmyy

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#60  Edited By Onemanarmyy

I think it's totally fair for Nintendo to release this barebones & limited package.

But it's dissapointing that it straight up works and signals that expensive remakes like Crash, THPS & Spyro could just as well be straight ports for modern resolutions. You'd lose out on some customers that have no love for the original game but are into it's new production, but the core market is okay with rebuying the older games they know and love. People want to have access to good games on their current systems.

I keep thinking back on that Sega Mega Drive & Genesis classics collection on steam. It's on sale now for like 8 bucks to get 58 games, but the regular full price is around 1,50$ per game. Naturally the games in the Mario All-Stars package are more recent, but there's quite a large gap between paying 1,50$ and 20$ for an old game

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sodapop7

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I've beaten 64 and Galaxy so far on the collection and am having a great time. I agree the hate is unwarranted. It would have been cool to have some behind the scenes information or stuff like that but I wanted to play the games again on Switch and that's what I'm getting to do. They still look and play great.

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doctordonkey

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But it's dissapointing that it straight up works and signals that expensive remakes like Crash, THPS & Spyro could just as well be straight ports for modern resolutions. You'd lose out on some customers that have no love for the original game but are into it's new production, but the core market is okay with rebuying the older games they know and love. People want to have access to good games on their current systems.

I feel like this is something that specifically Mario & Nintendo can get away with that no other game franchise or company in the world can. There's a nostalgia factor and wide market appeal that I don't think exists outside of it, and they know it & are exploiting it to the fullest.

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ToughShed

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@onemanarmyy said:

But it's dissapointing that it straight up works and signals that expensive remakes like Crash, THPS & Spyro could just as well be straight ports for modern resolutions. You'd lose out on some customers that have no love for the original game but are into it's new production, but the core market is okay with rebuying the older games they know and love. People want to have access to good games on their current systems.

I feel like this is something that specifically Mario & Nintendo can get away with that no other game franchise or company in the world can. There's a nostalgia factor and wide market appeal that I don't think exists outside of it, and they know it & are exploiting it to the fullest.

Very much agreed. The games themselves deserve better though is the bummer of it.

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Quantris

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I think there's just a pretty big part of the market that doesn't care much about $40 vs. $60. I know I don't (though I also haven't bought this because it's not like I'd be playing it...maybe I'll get it for Christmas or something).

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Shindig

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@sweetz Jesus. I'm not a fan of that. It looks way too busy.

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stinger061

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@onemanarmyy said:

But it's dissapointing that it straight up works and signals that expensive remakes like Crash, THPS & Spyro could just as well be straight ports for modern resolutions. You'd lose out on some customers that have no love for the original game but are into it's new production, but the core market is okay with rebuying the older games they know and love. People want to have access to good games on their current systems.

I feel like this is something that specifically Mario & Nintendo can get away with that no other game franchise or company in the world can. There's a nostalgia factor and wide market appeal that I don't think exists outside of it, and they know it & are exploiting it to the fullest.

Came here to say exactly this. Theres a few internet complaints about it but absolutely nothing on the scale EA would get if they tried to pull something like this and I bet Nintendo will just look at the sales numbers which will be huge and laugh all the way to the bank.

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bondfish

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@sweetz: That;s great and once again proves my point that the people who have the ROMs this isn't for you. And ROMS can be annoying to find and download especially N64 ROMS which I have never gotten one to work correctly and gave up with them. Plus every time I download one I am afraid that I will get a virus lol. Also once again the price is subject this is worth $60 to me, since most games to me are not worth $60 in general especially when they go on sale 2 months later and thats when I get them. Hell I bought a brand new copy of Galaxy 2 shortly after they announced 3D Allstars, for $45 when I know I could have gotten it cheaper. (mostly because I thought it would go up in price anyway).

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hermes

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I think people are just disappointed that an anniversary edition has so little love and care put into it that it could be compared to a prepackaged N64 Emulator. I am not saying they should have completely redone Mario 64 and Sunshine with new technology, but at least include some concept art, interviews, gallery... anything.

My point is, I hold Nintendo to the same standards I hold products like Bethesda's Skyrim, for example. If you can't give me something that modders offer me for free, don't charge me for it.

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sweetz

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#71  Edited By sweetz

@bondfish: This will never be discounted since Nintendo has guaranteed its scarcity. I mean that's what's especially disgusting. The limited time thing is purely to get people to pay $60 for 3 barebones ports/emulations. If it wasn't limited, anyone with sense would simply wait for it to go on sale. You're willing to overpay for this collection because of a nostalgia boner, I understand the sentiment, but there's no way you can objectively say this collection is priced fairly in the market. It is absolutely insane that 3 old unmodified Mario games is deemed to be worth the same as a modern AAA game with hundreds of thousands of high res art assets, performance capture from actors, etc. that hundreds of people have been working on for years to produce. This collection should have been $30 at most, and even then they'd make a killing based on the amount of work put into it. It is exploitative to price it at $60, but Nintendo gets away it where no other company would because of nostalgia.

@shindig: I agree, but that's just an example of the extent to which people have already modded the game via emulation methods and not modifying with the ROM. There are multiple HD texture packs out there, but TBH they all end up looking a little weird because the textures are too sharp for the low poly environments. Mario 64 needs a full Spyro style remake to really look good.

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bondfish

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@sweetz: Not sure were you got the part where I am Nostalgic for these games when I literally have only played Galaxy for about an hour and never even touched the other games before. I am willing to "overpay" for convince. Nintendo putting this game on sale would be $50, maybe even $40. Considering due to these prices I don't even count their first party games as "on sale". Also I understand them selling it for Nostalgia, and yea thats true but why is no one looking at the younger kids who own a switch who never played these games and even the older demographic like myself who hasn't. Sorry I don't want to mess around and research N64 emulation and want to go on ebay and buy older game consoles when I can press one button and pay $60 which I am comfortable to pay for the ease of these games.

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dooz

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These games can be played in higher quality on emulators, for free. Therein lies the criticism.

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sweetz

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#76  Edited By sweetz

@bondfish: Right so basically you’re saying because you are willing to pay what’s you admit is an excessive amount for 3 mostly untouched old games, other people’s criticism of this collection is unwarranted. You realize how ridiculous that is right?

I completely agree that it's nice to have a convenient way to play these old games on a current system, even if untouched. But you'd like to think games are priced as factor of the cost and effort that went into creating them, right? Compared to current games on the market and precedent for these kind of collections of other games on other systems, this collection is unquestionably overpriced and artificially limiting its availability is shitty, period.

It's ok for you to like a game and be willing to pay for it and still think criticism of it is valid. If Sony ported the lackluster PS3 "HD" collection of Ratchet & Clank games to PS4/PS5 for $60, I'd pay it because I love those games, but there's no way I'd argue that's a fair price in the current market.

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Justin258

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@bondfish said:

@sweetz: Sorry I don't want to mess around and research N64 emulation and want to go on ebay and buy older game consoles when I can press one button and pay $60 which I am comfortable to pay for the ease of these games.

I - and many of my peers - figured out how to play Mario 64 via emulation in high school, mid 2000's. It's literally a five minute task for someone who can open a Word document.

Sunshine and Galaxy might be a little harder, but it might take you an afternoon to get both running reasonably well.

I don't think people are arguing with you about whether you're OK with spending $60 on this collection. They seem to be arguing that it's full price for a barebones effort when Activision has done not one, not two, but three vastly superior remasters of their mid-90's classics, and Nintendo themselves have put far more effort towards the Ocarina and Majora remakes.

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Lv4Monk

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#79  Edited By Lv4Monk

"Why are they selling this game for $60 when I can steal it for free on the internet?"

I reiterate: criticism good, anger and hate painfully childish.

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Lv4Monk

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I think it's safe to say consumers value these Mario games more than the PS1 Crash trilogy. Personally I couldn't give a shit how much effort they put into this release, Mario Galaxy alone is more valuable than all three Crash games, remake or not. I don't pay them for effort, I pay them for games.

And for the record portable Crash has existed since the PSP.

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dooz

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@lv4monk said:

"Why are they selling this game for $60 when I can steal it for free on the internet?"

I reiterate: criticism good, anger and hate painfully childish.

Free and higher quality.

It's my opinion that companies should have to compete with emerging technologies even if said technologies are morally grey. If the collection was of equal or better quality, then I feel like there would be plenty of room for argument. However, emulators can do it better, in higher resolution, and with filtered or even custom up-scaled textures, and you can even use whatever controller you want (Bluetooth and real Wiimotes included).

Of course, you can always say that the $60 is a convenience fee, and there's nothing wrong with that. Knowing what I know, though, makes that price seem not really worth it to me.

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theonewhoplays

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I would have been fine with this collection if Galaxy 2 had been included. Now it just feels incomplete. I would not resort to stealing though. Maybe I could get my old Wii working with a HDMI adapter..

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Haz_Kaj

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#83  Edited By Haz_Kaj

Its not unwarranted. When you like at some of the stuff MS are doing with BC games activision with their remakes and Sony as well. Even ea will put nintendo to shame with their remasters probably.

I'm sorry. I' don't care how much you're enjoying a bunch of roms.

The collection is overpriced and lazy. Theres 0 excuse not to add wide-screen for mario 64 or 60fps to sunshine and more.

This is the thing with Nintendo games. Too many people with blind nostalgia so they see past it.

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dooz

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#84  Edited By dooz

I would have been fine with this collection if Galaxy 2 had been included. Now it just feels incomplete. I would not resort to stealing though. Maybe I could get my old Wii working with a HDMI adapter..

I see a whole bunch of adapters for that on Amazon for less than $10.

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visoredbead

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I didn't expect this from the package whatsoever, but it would have been interesting if Nintendo experimented with motion controls in Sunshine (like Splatoon).

Otherwise, this collection reminds me of the limited availability Legend of Zelda collection on gamecube (The Legend of Zelda: Collector's Edition).

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BisonHero

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#86  Edited By BisonHero

@visoredbead: Yeah, and wasn’t that Zelda collection either a pack-in or preorder bonus when you bought something else? Like it was literally free, because it was just some ROMs, and I think they recoloured the A and B buttons so that they matched the colouring on the GameCube buttons.

In some weird way, I would’ve been fine with the Super Mario 3D All Stars thing if it had just been either a "free" download for being subscribed to Nintendo Online, or if it had been a "free" download for preordering the Switch port of Super Mario 3D World or something. It's just crazy that they’re charging $60 for a bunch of Mario ROMs then also charging $60 for a Wii U to Switch Mario port a few months later.

Even if the 3D All Stars Collection had been free, seriously how is there nothing else in the package? At least those Mega Man Legacy Collections had a bunch of concept art, making-of supplemental material for each game. How did we not get anything for these 3 Mario games?

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Shindig

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I almost bought it used once. Did it have Zelda, Zelda 2 and Ocarina in it or was Majora's Mask part of the deal?

I passed up the chance and then bought the Wind Waker / Ocarina / Master Quest thing instead.

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visoredbead

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@bisonhero: yeah, something about pre-orders or nintendo power or both. Basically slightly modified ROMs with limited availability... sounds familiar ;)

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The_Nubster

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@shindig said:

I almost bought it used once. Did it have Zelda, Zelda 2 and Ocarina in it or was Majora's Mask part of the deal?

I passed up the chance and then bought the Wind Waker / Ocarina / Master Quest thing instead.

It had Majora's Mask as well. Unfortunately, MM had a bug where your save would sometimes get wiped. Very fun and cool.