The Wheel of Dubious RPGs Episode 47-48: Legend of Dragoon and Code Vein (season 2 finale)

The Legend of Dragoon

Developer:Sony Interactive Entertainment (but like, specifically Japan Studio IIRC)

Release Date: December 2nd, 1999

Time Played: A little more than four hours

Dubiosity:2 out of 5

CD count:4

Would I play more? Probably not, if only because there are so many other weirder PS1-era JRPGs out there. Still gotta touch them Suikodenzz… or like, Xenogears.

There’s something really interesting about The Legend of Dragoon, namely that it’s Sony’s few real attempts at making their own in-house first-party JRPG. It has high production values, sold quite well in both the West and Japan, and also… never really got a follow-up? To be frank, this game has a strong “Game people have fond nostalgia for because they were 12 but have not played since 2000” energy, but I also can’t say I had a bad time with it. In late 1999 and early 2000, your’s truly was too busy getting stoked about Donkey Kong 64 on his Nintendo 64, so I’m not exactly the best indicator of nostalgic quality.

I think the most complementary and most condemning thing I can say about Legend of Dragoon is that it seems to be a totally fine “game of this era.” It’s got that four disc sheen, which as we all know was the correct indicator of quality during this era. There are pre-rendered backgrounds, an evil empire that is using dark magic to take over the world, decently detailed polygonal character models, overly-long elaborate battle animations that make everything slightly too long. You know what this game is. That said, the biggest “addition” to the game is the “addition” system (see what I did there?) If you like Mario RPG-esque button timing properties, do I have the game for you! That’s right, rhythmically pressing buttons in quick succession with the added thrill of knowing you’re playing a PS1 game on an HDTV and thus have to anticipate a certain amount of input lag. Characters learn new attack strings as they level up, and there’s an interesting quality between picking ones you can nail the timing on and ones with higher damage potential. Also you can turn into a dragon and do weird super moves, which require a different timing window and interface… aaaand that’s about as far as I got with that mechanic. It’s basically a limit break.

Now while I definitely think it comes off a tad generic, maybe a bit stock outside of having timing-based attacks, the actual dubious quality of Legend of Dragoon is its translation. Final Fantasy VII gets a lot of flack for its “This guy are sick” gaffes, but it maintains a basic level of coherency for most of its runtime. Legend of Dragoon wears that “translated in two months by a small handful of people who were given a raw text dump of katakana” energy in everything, from basic-ass menu text to every stilted-ass line of dialogue. It borders between overly literal and incoherent, and as a result I had trouble getting invested in the adventures of Dart and Friends in their quest to… something something dragons. Like, the tree enemies you’d expect to be called Treants are just called “Trent.” On the other hand, there is a character named “Lavitz Slambert” so who am I to disagree with the choices made? No, seriously, Lavitz Slambert is the best JRPG character name. Prove me wrong. Bartz Klauser? Pffft.

In any case I think this is a case of me feeling like I *did* get a pretty solid grip on a JRPG for this feature, which is something I can’t say for stuff like The Last Remnant. I think outside of the translation, which is truly dubious, this game seems… entirely okay. Heck I might even say it’s quite possibly “good” depending on one’s tolerance of PSX-era JRPGs, of which mine is fairly low. Seems alright!

Code Vein

Developer:Shift

Release Date: September 26, 2019

Time Played: a little more than 2 ½ hours

Dubiosity: 3 out of 5

Anime: Yes

Would I play more? Yes. When there is a need, I will be there to play the mediocre anime souls.

As both a sales success and the most recent game featured for this wheel, I think Code Vein is probably a known quantity at this point. It was mostly on this season because I owned it and wanted an excuse to stream it. It’s frankly a bit of an anticlimax after having both Konung and King’s Quest VIII back to back (and, to be clear, those two games are a real fuckin’ trip) but on the other hand it was a good reminder that my thoughts and feelings on Code Vein have not changed. Like, at all. Which is to say that Code Vein is totally *fine* and also at no point would I say that it’s great. I’m probably gonna play more of it. The character creator is real good.

In the same way that God Eater is a much lighter, streamlined, and more anime Monster Hunter, so too is Code Vein the lighter, streamlined, and more anime Dark Souls. At no point is it entirely clear that the developers understand *why* Dark Souls is designed the way it is, but by golly they made an attempt. That’s an accusation I’m willing to make for a lot of “souls-likes” (just the worst term) but it’s especially notable in what Code Vein does well versus what it doesn’t. Picking up my roughly 10ish hour save file I was reminded that the way Code Vein handles mix-and-match skills and classes is neat… which was immediately followed up by my remembrance that the combat is airless and feels like it wants you to mash stuff out. You shouldn’t, because there’s still that big fat stamina bar, but the way your swings come out and the way the enemies react to them feel closer to the feedback I’d expect from a Musou game.

That back and forth was kind of my experience with the entire stream, TBH, between feeling entirely okay about the sad pretty vampires (many of whom are barely wearing any clothing) and then being reminded that every new “class” you acquire comes with its own set of melodramatic flashback sequences. It needs be said that your AI companions in this game are surprisingly effective most of the time, which definitely leads into complaints that the game is too easy? It is, but also I apparently haven’t gotten to the more bullshit parts of the game to see if things end up swinging the other way. Maybe I will, maybe I won’t. Alas, the start of various life events means I’m gonna be more busy than I used to be, and for better and worse Code Vein isn’t entirely up on the priority list right now.

And that does it for another weird, questionable, and obscure season of The Wheel of Dubious RPGs! If you’d like to join along with my future endeavors, consider following my internet twitch channel. I’m playing through Daikatana with Justin258 in anticipation of THE WHEEL OF DUBIOUS FPSes. That’s right nerds. You thought dubiousness was over? Well, I need a break from RPGs, and not just because I’m also sometimes on a podcast that covers RPGs (Our third and final podcast on Grandia II is now out!) so what if I played another genre I have fondness for and features an extensive array of weird shit? Look forward to it.

I love Sad Vampire game, I love all the weird melodrama, and I'm tickled by the completely unnecessary plot point it brings about in its ending. It's not a particularly strong Souls game but as a doofy JRPG with Souls combat I found it to be real quiet gem for the most part.

I am here to shame you for this afront to even considering Legend of Dragoon as dubious. I will now extend this beyond logical reach and say you are the reason that Sony shut down Japan Studio. I bite my thumb at thee!

LoD is one of those games i dont even understand how it got that carry despite the embarrassment of riches out of other publishers not just compared to now.

@genessee: It had a really funny commercial at the time. That's what I remember.

Honestly Dubious is the most flattering thing to be said about the game because it's not... bad.. it has very interesting ideas.

It's just....

Oh I've had a good time with it, but I'd deeply, deeply hesitate to call it anything more than "okay" but on the Soulslike Scale of Competence it's at least better than Lords of the Fallen. It gives me what I need, which is to say it has anime titties, deeply self-serious melodrama, and surprisingly solid character building mechanics. (that said, Scarlet Nexus also has those things and is actually a pretty solid-ass action RPG on top of that)

I'm not gonna go super hard on disagreeing, because what I played was entirely fine, but outside of timed button presses (which games like the Mario RPGs and Shadow Hearts series do a lot better) and the awful translation not a lot sticks out?

Right place + Right Time + High production values + Marketing, I imagine. I swear at some point Suikoden will be played and we'll finally get some Good Fucking PS1 JRPGs on ArbitraryWater content. But for now I, uh, know what my next game for the podcast is gonna be and it's definitely gonna be Wheel of Dubious RPGs adjacent. Might even do a write up.

i was always slightly curious about legend of dragoon , i didn't have a ps1 growing up and didn't get into JRPGs till mid ps2-era so going back is always a bit hard ( increasingly so these days the farther away we get) so reading this has honestly made me feel pretty ok in a probably cool for the time but i don't need to dive into it sorta way. code vein sounds fine for what it is , i caught a bit of that stream during what looked to be a boss fight at one point after you'd mentioned streaming it ( i lurked because it was during my fiancee's sleeping hours ). it definitely isn't something i need to play either but i'm happy it exists for those who like the type of game it is , souls games never really click well with me so that doesn't help its case even if i like anime bs in games. i'll be looking forwardd to seeing more dubious games either way tho so thanks for these ^^

Code Vein had a nifty idea with the classes that it just didn't implement very well. Since one of the barriers for people new to the Souls series is understanding what the stats do and how to optimize a build (I'm one of those people who sank a ton of points into Resistance my first time through Dark Souls), the idea of just picking the class you want and having the game do all the stat allocation is cool concept.

Unfortunately, it just didn't feel like the game was doing a very good job of building out their classes. A lot of that is probably down to the floaty feel of combat that was mentioned, but I also remember thinking that a lot of the class builds were too "balanced" when some of them really should have been more min-maxed.

Code Vein is very curious. You can tell this game had development issues and, I think, I read somewhere something about people of God Eater 3 going to their rescue (Note: I might be wrong).

The end result is a game that is fine in most points and even have some very good highlights, but there are the issues, such as the float combat. However, in the end you have this souls-like game, where you perform soul-like stuff (you even have cathedral style map) but in a way easier game.

Despite all, I really like the game, what frustrates me is the poor dlcs/support, specially that despite that amazing character creation, they add almost no new clothes. Meanwhile, God Eater 3 had tons and tons of it (all God Eater 3 dlc is free). The other stuff is just some maps with way too hard bosses and enemies.

I beat Legend of Dragoon back in the day and I remember sort of liking it while still finding it to be painfully generic compared to every other PS1 JRPG I played to that point. The only thing I can recall right now is it having half-decent lore while the actual story and characters were very forgettable. This is also one of the few RPGs of the time that I almost never found the need to switch up my party members unless forced to and just min-maxed with the main three to the end, ya know main-dude, spear-dude, and indigo-lady. If I remember correctly spear-dude was a fairly OP damage dealer once you get the timing down for his attack combos. But hey transform-states am I right?! Those're always cool, particularly if you were a fan of anime like I was.

I have no experience with Code Vein but that one Monster Factory video convinced me that it's a breakthrough in anime-character-making technology.

Legend of Dragoon was such a weird game to experience in its time. I am not entirely sure I beat it, because despite being in Highschool and a giant JRPG nerd, it was grindy and difficult and didn't make much sense.

I did find out years later that Legend of Dragoon was intended to interact heavily with the Sony Pocketstation, a memory card add-on like the Dreamcast's VMU that was intended to be the main way to grind out currency in LoD. The Pocketstation never made it out of Japan, so apparently they jacked up the currency earnings by 300% in the US/EU version of LoD and called it a day. I remember it being VERY difficult to get currency in the game though, so I don't think it was very well balanced of a solution.

It's maybe the third worst JRP I played on the PS1, behind Beyond the Beyond and Granstream Saga. Granstream Saga is probably the worst, because no one in the world has a face so it feels like all the human characters are horrific anime marionettes.

Legend of Dragoon is one of my top ten games of all-time. I replay it every 2-3 years now thanks to my Vita. The addition system is great (it's just unfortunate that the bow user doesn't get additions), the story really goes some interesting places and your party grows to 7 different, fairly unique characters. I would love to see LoD get a sequel, a remake, or even an HD remaster with the 3x mode FF7, 8 & 9 have received recently. All JRPGs really need that 3x mode.