Callin' it

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#1 Posted by dietlime (39 posts) -

This game will be another pretty but vapid linear Hollywood action piece. No branching plot, character development, or meaningful choice will be present. It'll be really cool looking and there will be lots of whoahcool exploding quick time events.

It's plot will be obvious, predictable, and narrative character development will be forgettable. It will not make you think.

If this stuff entertains you, that's cool; but I know a shallow game when I see one, and they're hyping all the wrong angles on this one. A lot of marketing, a little meat. It does have a novel artistic style that hasn't been overplayed in it's genre, so there is that.

I hope to be proven wrong, but just look at it. I don't expect a shooter to have the depth of a tabletop RPG; but I'm fed up with one aspect of the genre: linearity. A game like this should have a few branching moments. Entertainment software is the only medium truly capable of implementing a branching plot, and basic shooter games with relatively established mechanics are where I have been hoping to see some innovation in recent years.

Here's hoping I am wrong, and The Order: 1886 innovates in a genre which is woefully stagnant.

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#2 Posted by toshi0815 (130 posts) -

Have you seen all the news about the game? It's 5 hours long with 70% of that being cutscenes and the other 30% being a generic third person shooter that's filled with QTEs.

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#3 Posted by kaos_cracker (1003 posts) -

Everyone likes their own types of games. I am super excited for The Order. Also, you could just watch the whole game on YouTube right now to find out.

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#4 Edited by johnnymcginley (527 posts) -

I'm looking forward to a linear 8-10 hour game that I can sit and finish in 3 or 4 sittings. I probably won't buy it on release.

There seems to be a lot of opinions on this game that a handful of people have played.

The backlash is pretty lame.

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#5 Posted by brandondryrock (890 posts) -

Not every game needs to be 20-40 hours long with RPG elements. If people want to play this game, do so. If not, don't play it. It isn't that hard. I don't understand the mentality of coming into the board and telling everyone how much you won't like it, when it is obvious there are people that are excited to play it.

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#6 Posted by toshi0815 (130 posts) -

@brandondryrock: So only positive comments about games are allowed? Sounds boring.

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#7 Edited by splodge (2786 posts) -

@brandondryrock said:

Not every game needs to be 20-40 hours long with RPG elements. If people want to play this game, do so. If not, don't play it. It isn't that hard. I don't understand the mentality of coming into the board and telling everyone how much you won't like it, when it is obvious there are people that are excited to play it.

Anyone who likes The Order 1886 has cooties. This is fact. I understand why he needed to pre-empt any rumors about him liking it because that would mean he has cooties, which he totally doesn't, because only people who like The Order 1886 have cooties.

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#8 Posted by Fear_the_Booboo (1091 posts) -

It's funny you attack the game for being exactly what it sets up to do. I'm pretty sure that people buying the game day one expect and want a linear cover-based shooter with pretty graphics. It's more a case of "if the game is competent at it or not".

Also, saying that you expect all games including shooters like The Order to have branching story makes me think that you have no idea how time and ressources consuming branching stories are to create in videogames even if, yes, it's the only medium that can do them. There's a reason why modern games with non-linear story don't have the level of freedom that old game with simple graphics and mechanics could have.

Online
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#9 Posted by ottoman673 (1274 posts) -

It looks like another weak Sony first party outing; fucking gorgeous to look at, but short and underwhelming on the gameplay end.

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#10 Posted by joshwent (2897 posts) -

Can't we at least spout bullshit about games that are actually out?

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#11 Posted by ShaggE (9302 posts) -

I don't think The Order ever had any aspirations of being something more than "Pretty Pretty Pew Pew". And that's totally okay. There's nothing wrong with the occasional rollercoaster ride game. It should be judged for what it is, not what it never intended to be.

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#12 Posted by BillyMaysRIP (737 posts) -

It's the PS4's Ryse: Son of Rome. Which is fine, I guess. You always want games to be worth what they cost, but people seem to use these types of games as excuses to attack the specific console system.

Personally, there's nothing wrong with games that attempt to show off the power of the system platform, but I doubt it will be remembered by anyone in a few years.

Still waiting for Quantum Break, though Sony.

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#13 Posted by brandondryrock (890 posts) -

@toshi0815: Whoops. For a second I forgot I was a gamer and I'm just supposed to hate every game ever even though I proclaim that my favorite hobby is playing video games. I was about to say how video games can be cool and fun to play! Good thing I remembered that I have to be super cynical.

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#14 Posted by chilibean_3 (2375 posts) -

Man, does that Callin It site using the Giant Bomb API still work? Unfortunately it's kind of useless now with GB doing fewer and fewer reviews but it was a neat project.

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#15 Posted by korwin (3918 posts) -

It's the PS4's Ryse: Son of Rome. Which is fine, I guess. You always want games to be worth what they cost, but people seem to use these types of games as excuses to attack the specific console system.

Personally, there's nothing wrong with games that attempt to show off the power of the system platform, but I doubt it will be remembered by anyone in a few years.

Still waiting for Quantum Break, though Sony.

I look forward to playing 1886 on my PC at a proper framerate in a year just like Ryse then :P

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#16 Posted by gaminghooligan (1831 posts) -

@joshwent said:

Can't we at least spout bullshit about games that are actually out?

For reals...

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#17 Posted by ShadowSwordmaster (1119 posts) -

@joshwent said:

Can't we at least spout bullshit about games that are actually out?

For reals...

It's the least we can do.

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#18 Posted by spankingaddict (2977 posts) -

I hope it's this years spec ops , which I loved .

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#19 Posted by Panelhopper (504 posts) -

I prefer it when games have as much gameplay as possible, relative to their cost. ( but only went it's done right, which is hard) Skyrim being the best example I can think of at the moment. However, it doesn't mean a 5-7 hour game can't be good. If The Order turns out to be mediocre as well as short, that's what will hurt the game.

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#20 Posted by cloudnineboya (990 posts) -

@gaminghooligan: sort of is out, unofficially sorta/. their be even a review of this game before embargo. plus the op has some very valid points regarding this game.

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#21 Posted by doctordonkey (1856 posts) -

The vast majority of the complaints rolling in seem to stem from the reported length (ranging from 6-9 hours), but the main concern for me, from what I've heard, is that the actual shooting is really bland. Honestly, length is only really a concern if what's there is causing you to say "Gee, I really wish there was more of this". From what I've heard/seen, it doesn't look like I'd actually want to engage with the shooting aspects of the game for more than 8 hours.

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#22 Edited by TrafalgarLaw (1715 posts) -

@billymaysrip: Being the 'Ryse: Son of Rome' of the system is a really bad insult and nothing that the developers did deserve such an insult.

It also baffles me how every Sony-exclusive game gets this scrutiny of being linear or being filled with QTE's. There is a good kind of linear game design and a good implementation of QTEs and then there are the bad ones. From what I've seen, it looks like the gameplay is very much there. Not every game has to be Bayonneta or DMC when it comes to full control of your character. Bayonetta has some light QTE's to boot.

Some of Sony's first party studios put more emphasis on a cinematic experience. That's fine as long as the gameplay isn't marred. There is enough room for both God of War/Heavy Rain and Devil May Cry/Bayonetta to exist. But for whatever reason Sony's first party can't win.

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#23 Posted by Zelyre (1904 posts) -

Tons of people are telling me I'm cynical, a member of the PC master race, and a hater of games when I say I'm pretty tepid about The Order 1886.

The same people also told me they were having a blast playing Heavenly Sword and Lair when the PS3 launched.

I think the game's length and single-player, heavily narrative and scripted gameplay would have been fine at launch. Maybe even a system seller like Ryse. Hopefully the gameplay is extremely fun and can carry the rest of the game.

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#24 Posted by gaminghooligan (1831 posts) -

@cloudnineboya: Fair enough, but there isn't much point in arguing/stating a game's quality two days before the embargo even drops. I agree with OP that I hope this game has something to bolster what is a pretty stale genre at the moment. At this point though, aside from some early opinions from people I've never heard of/trust to give me a solid review of a game, there isn't enough out there yet for me to say "It's plot will be obvious, predictable, and narrative character development will be forgettable. It will not make you think."

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#25 Posted by HatKing (7453 posts) -

It's funny that you mention player choice and branching plot in your implication of what makes good games because I'd argue those are two of the major things responsible for poor, stagnant story design in this industry.

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#26 Posted by Seikenfreak (1541 posts) -

I find it funny that I think of something like Uncharted while reading the post.

That's what those games look like to me. A Hollywood movie that's all linear and the environments are set pieces and the camera work and controls lend themselves to more of a casual movie experience. Nothing wrong with that kind of game if people are into it

/shrug

We'll see.

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#28 Posted by ArtisanBreads (9107 posts) -

People said this about Max Payne 3 and it was one of the best games of the last gen to me.

I'm not saying The Order is great. Just these criticisms don't ruin a game for me at all.

I find it funny that I think of something like Uncharted while reading the post.

That's what those games look like to me. A Hollywood movie that's all linear and the environments are set pieces and the camera work and controls lend themselves to more of a casual movie experience. Nothing wrong with that kind of game if people are into it

/shrug

We'll see.

Yes I'd say Uncharted fits there too. Just comes down to quality.

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#29 Posted by pompouspizza (1563 posts) -

I'm really excited to play The Order for all of the reasons some people seem put off by it, which I totall understand. But I think the game looks really fun.

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#30 Edited by csl316 (15004 posts) -

That's fine. I'm glad to play a couple games like this every year.

Not every game has to have infinite replay value like Spelunky.

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#31 Posted by Nodima (2636 posts) -

Personally, I want to see more games like this. I get that gameplay is what games are about, and hopefully this is fun enough for a first try, but I really think the seamlessness of the cutscenes to gameplay is going to make a pretty unique experience I'd hope to see more of in the future. I love gamey games but I've been wanting games to really figure out how to tackle narrative vs. gameplay in a meaningful way for a while and the tech behind this game is SUPER intriguing on that front. Unfortunately I'm not sure when I'll be able to buy the game, I'm suddenly a little financially unstable for the forseeable future.

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#32 Edited by Mike (17997 posts) -

I watched the entire game on YouTube yesterday, had it on in the background while I was doing some work on my computer. I'd say you pretty much nailed it.

Major ending spoiler for anyone who doesn't care about such things. DOUBLE spoiler block just to prevent accidents. If you're going to quote this post, please make sure the spoiler blocks are preserved.

The chapter 4 boss is exactly the same as the final boss. QTE's and all. Yeahhhhh...

Moderator
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#33 Posted by ThatOneDudeNick (1576 posts) -

I was hoping for closer to like 8-10 hours. Wasn't expecting more than that. But the game is exactly what I thought/hoped it would be. I don't need every game to be 20 hours with a bunch of filler or side-missions that don't lead everywhere (or half-assed multiplayer that nobody will touch in a month). If the story is good I'm on board. I still don't know what to think of The Order. The demo they've been taking to conventions is fun. If I can have fun for less than $10/hour, I'm good. The value scale is different for everyone, and this game isn't for everyone. I'll stop thinking about it until it comes out.

The game will ride on its story for me. If the world is interesting and the story is good, I don't care if its short. Fingers crossed.

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#34 Posted by DonutFever (4051 posts) -

The previews always put a bit too much emphasis on the cutscenes. Sounds like they make up most of the game, and is pretty short on top. A bummer, because it's a good team with a rad style.

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#35 Posted by deactivated-5a4ea8fdbe490 (401 posts) -

Hmm. I've had a bad feeling about this game for a while. It just seemed.... Too shrouded in mystery. Not tons of gameplay shown, and I forgot it was even coming out a handful of times. Well, I guess I'll wait and see what the Bombsquad thinks before making a decision, they have yet to steer me wrong.

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#36 Posted by BillyMaysRIP (737 posts) -

@trafalgarlaw: What? It's a pretty apt comparison... They have similar reviews of lackluster combat and weighty cutscenes, but high graphical fidelity and new story premises. Both sacrifice length and indepth gameplay for a cinematic experience. Order is definitely not a God of War or Heavy Rain - it's unfair to compare those two to the Order. Ryse is a very solid 3 star game, and the steam release following it has been incredibly well rated (9/10 good.) Ryse is a competent, well made game, with a rather interesting story-line.

I'm not calling the game filth or trash, so I don't understand how I could be insulting anyone with my comment. The developers are adults that work at a multinational company; they don't need protection from internet nobodies like me. Should the developers at Crytek be insulted that comparing one of their pieces of hardwork to another similar item is considered an insult? Those devs did nothing to deserve the insult you've given them (ok maybe the helium breasts of Nemesis where a bit too much.)

I own two consoles at the moment: a PS2 and a PS Vita. I seriously love almost every game they put out on the Vita, and I constantly replay all of my PS2 classics. I've enjoyed all of the PS exclusives, and Uncharted is one of my favorite series. I'm very much lukewarm about this game, and I'm pretty sure my comment reflects that. There's no specific targeting because it's Sony.

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#38 Posted by mbdoeden (315 posts) -

@nodima said:

Personally, I want to see more games like this. I get that gameplay is what games are about, and hopefully this is fun enough for a first try, but I really think the seamlessness of the cutscenes to gameplay is going to make a pretty unique experience I'd hope to see more of in the future. I love gamey games but I've been wanting games to really figure out how to tackle narrative vs. gameplay in a meaningful way for a while and the tech behind this game is SUPER intriguing on that front. Unfortunately I'm not sure when I'll be able to buy the game, I'm suddenly a little financially unstable for the forseeable future.

I'm with you. Honestly, it's all subjective so I tend to avoid these threads but I have to add on to your point:

The older I get, the more I hate games that demand a ridiculous amount of my time. I (and some of my peers ) have reached the age where I have more money than time, and a well made, full priced, 5-7 hour narrative driven game sounds pretty fucking great.

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#39 Edited by csl316 (15004 posts) -

@mbdoeden said:

@nodima said:

Personally, I want to see more games like this. I get that gameplay is what games are about, and hopefully this is fun enough for a first try, but I really think the seamlessness of the cutscenes to gameplay is going to make a pretty unique experience I'd hope to see more of in the future. I love gamey games but I've been wanting games to really figure out how to tackle narrative vs. gameplay in a meaningful way for a while and the tech behind this game is SUPER intriguing on that front. Unfortunately I'm not sure when I'll be able to buy the game, I'm suddenly a little financially unstable for the forseeable future.

I'm with you. Honestly, it's all subjective so I tend to avoid these threads but I have to add on to your point:

The older I get, the more I hate games that demand a ridiculous amount of my time. I (and some of my peers ) have reached the age where I have more money than time, and a well made, full priced, 5-7 hour narrative driven game sounds pretty fucking great.

Agreed. I'll be 30 this year, and even a game like this can take me a month to beat because an extended session can be hard to come by. When a game is over 10 hours, I already start to doubt that I'll even finish it. Hell, South Park seemed like an impossible undertaking at 20 hours (which I eventually pulled off!)

When I look into an indie game, one of the first things I look at is length. "Can I knock this out in a 2 hour sitting? Yes? Awesome, here's $10."

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#40 Edited by FrostyRyan (2924 posts) -

You realize more than half the internet agrees with you, right? No need to "call it." Everyone already thinks what you just said pretty much.

this is weird.

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#41 Posted by nophilip (687 posts) -

I don't think that being 5 hours long is a dealbreaker, but it certainly doesn't make me more eager to purchase the game. I think The Order looks OK, but it certainly doesn't look like something I'd feel good about paying $60 for. Maybe $20.

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#42 Edited by TrafalgarLaw (1715 posts) -

@billymaysrip: It scored 4's (out of 10's) in most respected review sites, that 3/5 is one of the few positives one. I need not remind you that Ryse was a $60 game with F2P-esque microtransactions in it. The Ryse comparison does definetly not hold up. GameSpot for one called the combat of Ryse dull, uninspired and even repetitive. So how you are able to compare unreleased game with a pretty mediocre one is beyond me.

My other paragraphs weren't necessarily directed at you but I noticed a trend in rebelling against these so-called cinematic games. Even Eurogamer spouted some bullshit about how you should NOT buy The Order based on preview events, while games like The Master Chief collection or Assassin's Creed Unity, both broken in their own ways, get ringing endorsements and absolutely no 'Buyers Beware!'-warning up front. It's disingenuous how some sites target The Order 1886, a relatively new studio trying some new stuff.

The game might be good or not, that isn't much of my concern since I'm not too interested in the game. Even many posts this thread prove how there is this weird hatred against cinematic games.

Also some random youtuber claiming he beat the game in 5 hours is somehow proof? Why don't we bag on Jonathan Blow for his game, The Witness, alllegedly being 90 minutes long while we're at it?

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#43 Posted by Karkarov (3385 posts) -

Also, saying that you expect all games including shooters like The Order to have branching story makes me think that you have no idea how time and ressources consuming branching stories are to create in videogames even if, yes, it's the only medium that can do them. There's a reason why modern games with non-linear story don't have the level of freedom that old game with simple graphics and mechanics could have.

I am pretty sure I bought this paper back when I was like 8 called "Curse of the Ninja" that cost me like 4 bucks and had a branching story. That said everyone bitching about this game are probably the same people who think Last of Us is top 5 of all time. Yeah it probably had a better story, and was longer, but it was still a linear cover shooter with fairly basic mechanics that could be completed in 20 hours.

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#44 Posted by newmoneytrash (2440 posts) -

This thread is *so* condescending

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#45 Edited by maginnovision (819 posts) -

Don't own the game so i wouldn't know.

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#46 Posted by SubliminalKitteh (455 posts) -

I have no problems with a game being short, or a game having lots of cut-scenes, but if either are of sub-par quality while the game relies on them, that's a big turnoff. Also when a company goes out and states the game is a certain length, is proven wrong by someone, and then goes on to ignore the fact that they misrepresented the game's length means the devs/publ are probably not totally behind the project, much like how some games don't get sent to reviewers.

If the game is good, good for them, if not, then they damned themselves. Let the game come out before throwing stones please.

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#47 Edited by Miso_JEFF (19 posts) -

It amazes me how much panties this game has ruffled. So much hyperbole, so much douchery has been showcased over this game.

For those that really dislike this game: did you plan on buying it? Did you put too much hope into this game, like is that why it brings out all this hate?

As for me, games graphics look really nice. TPS mechanics look like other TPS games, what will make the game play "it" is the details of the TPS mechanics... which is something I can't tell unless I've played it. Story wise, seems fine. Game length, just heard rumors but game length has never been the determining factor for buy a game anyway but it seems to be the thing that is NOW an issue. Will I buy it, maybe later.

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#48 Posted by stryker1121 (2171 posts) -

You're not exactly going out on a limb here, OP. These predictions have been made about The Order since the first gameplay footage came out months ago.

That said, i watched some of that 5-hour guy's playthrough, and I'm definitely lukewarm about what I saw. Whack-a-mole cover shooting against boring NPC humans. This game should have been a free-roaming TPS where you're mostly fighting monsters, not people. Something like Dead Space.

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#49 Edited by JosephKnows (482 posts) -

i seriously don't understand the point of this topic

game isn't out

you aren't one of the privileged few who have actually played the game

you're not a fan of this kind of game or genre

you're not saying anything that hasn't been said by countless other people in countless other gaming sites

you're not saying anything insightful

all of those things add up and make me think very cynically as to the actual purpose of your post

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#50 Posted by GERALTITUDE (5990 posts) -

i seriously don't understand the point of this topic

game isn't out

you aren't one of the privileged few who have actually played the game

you're not a fan of this kind of game or genre

you're not saying anything that hasn't been said by countless other people in countless other gaming sites

you're not saying insightful

all of those things add up and make me think very cynically as to the actual purpose of your post

Put in to words what I wanted to say.

Usually GB mods are pretty good about locking up these kinds of threads though, but it's pretty new still (and we already have that "Are you getting The Order?" thread to which this post is an obvious response).