Why the lack of exclusives?

Avatar image for jrodrz
jrodrz

239

Forum Posts

2022

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 5

#1  Edited By jrodrz

Hey everyone:

As a passionate, Xbox-only user, I was really looking forward to E3 to know if Microsoft has any plans of catching up to Sony regarding console exclusives. However, I became dissappointed once I read the list of Xbox One games confirmed for E3 showing next week, according to Gamespot:

  • Crackdown 3
  • Sea of Thieves
  • State of Decay 2
  • Fable Fortune
  • Forza 7
  • Gigantic
  • Phantom Dust
  • Ace Combat 7: Skies Unknown
  • Assassin's Creed: Origins (rumored)
  • Battalion 1944
  • Call of Cthulu
  • Call of Duty: World War II
  • The Crew 2
  • Darksiders III
  • Destiny 2
  • Dirt 4
  • FIFA 18
  • F1 2017
  • Insurgency: Sandstorm
  • Madden NFL 18
  • Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite
  • Micro Machines: World Series
  • Middle-earth: Shadow of War
  • NBA Live 18
  • Need for Speed: Payback
  • Project Cars 2
  • Star Wars: Battlefront II
  • Sonic Forces
  • South Park: The Fractured But Whole
  • Vampyr.

Other than the first few titles that Microsoft has been announcing for months and will probably launch with or after Scorpio, I don't see anything that excites me or at least makes me feel optimistic for the future. Sure, I enjoy backwards compatibility since I still keep a lot of my 360 games, but it has been frustrating to see that awesome exclusives have been released for the PS4 in the last few months, and we Xbox users miss out on these games (buying a PS4 is not a possibility for me at this moment).

Why is it that Microsoft has a hard time getting console exclusives on a much larger scale than it currently does? I don't see Scorpio as a trigger for this to happen, and unless Microsoft is truly hermetic about new exclusives for E3, it'll be really hard to stick with the Xbox in the future or attract newcoming gamers to their platform.

Cheers!

Avatar image for edin899
Edin899

689

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

I just hope they have something up their sleeve, you never know what they will show at the press conference, they have to know that they need to make a big move.

Avatar image for finaldasa
FinalDasa

3862

Forum Posts

9965

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 9

User Lists: 16

#3 FinalDasa  Moderator

Console exclusives typically come from 1st party development, meaning developers owned by the publisher. It's getting much more rare to see a 3rd party dev make a game exclusively for a single console, and typically when you do it's for business reasons (Persona for example would sell better on PlayStation thanks to it's sales dominance in Japan and Europe).

Sony's 1st party has had its ups and downs but generally been consistent since the PS4 launched, Microsoft has lagged behind. Maybe Xbox's 1st party is secretly toiling away on some unannounced titles, maybe Xbox is stuck in a cycle that relies on Halo and Gears to be system sellers, or maybe they just need a better 1st party focus in the coming years.

Neither company is perfect when it comes to their 1st party output (Sony has a lot of games announced, now let's see some come out) but Microsoft is clearly falling behind and needs to announce something that sells more hardware.

Avatar image for justin258
Justin258

16684

Forum Posts

26

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 8

Microsoft has never seemed to bother much with exclusives, even though it was an exclusive that people to buy an Xbox in the first place.

Avatar image for hosstile17
Hosstile17

844

Forum Posts

21

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 3

Well, anything they unveil at the press conference wouldn't be on that list. I am hoping they pull the wrapper off some cool new stuff. New sexy hardware isn't enough for me. Although, to their credit, I appreciate Microsoft really only showing stuff that comes out in the next 6-18months as opposed to the Sony strategy of showing CG trailers for games years away.

Avatar image for siamesegiant
siamesegiant

127

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Microsoft's first party output has been weak since the back half of the 360/PS3 generation. They've been relying on the same few franchises to prop themselves up for years. They bought a load of promising studios and shut them down. Who knows if they have the man power to push out a load of new IPs to support the Scorpio, but if they don't then I can't see it being anything other than a dud.

Avatar image for hippie_genocide
hippie_genocide

2574

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

#8  Edited By hippie_genocide

When you look at their meager exclusive lineup it really drives home just how fucked Scalebound must've been for them to just pull the plug on it.

Avatar image for sammo21
sammo21

6040

Forum Posts

2237

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 18

User Lists: 45

In all honesty, Sony was killing them in the first party exclusives department since the last several years of the PS3. People only went to 360 at that point for multiplayer games because of the awesome party system. I have an Xbox One and I never turn it on. Only reason it gets turned on is because my 1.5 year old will sometimes press the power button to see the light come on.

Avatar image for rongalaxy
RonGalaxy

4937

Forum Posts

48

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 1

Microsoft doesn't have nearly as many game studios as Sony, which is kind of strange. Unless they plan on acquiring studios, their best bet is going 3rd party... Which hasn't worked out too great for them. At this point they'd have to cut a massive check to convince a studio for even timed exclusivity, let alone full.

Avatar image for bigsocrates
bigsocrates

6269

Forum Posts

184

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#11 bigsocrates  Online

Microsoft seems to be pursuing a strategy of making the Xbox something of an openish platform to try to attract independent developers, like Windows. It doesn't really work well for a console, since PCs exist, but it seems to be the way they are thinking these days. They are pursuing "play anywhere" and Direct X 12 integration and stuff like it.

I think the master plan has to be to eventually merge the platforms and make Xbox just a gaming brand for Windows PCs, which makes sense if you think about it. It's brand synergy, and Xbox has never been profitable for them anyway, so maintaining it in its own ecosystem probably isn't that interesting. Playstation has been a lynchpin of Sony and kept the company afloat but Xbox has only ever broken even for Microsoft and is more of a PR strategy than an actual important part of their business.

Sony also has some structural advantages. Japanese game developers don't think about Xbox and don't put their Japanese market focused games (like Persona 5, I am Setsuna, and the Yakuza series) on it. In addition, Playstation 4 has sold a lot more consoles so developers looking for the maximum audience on one platform go there too, and it's easier to convince developers to skip Xbox than skip Playstation because nobody wants to miss that huge PS4 market. Microsoft also bungled relationships with Indie game developers at the end of last generation, making a lot of them jump ship to Playstation even though Xbox 360 was the platform that birthed the modern indie console game. Letting games like Transistor be PS4 exclusives, even though Bastion was part of Summer of Arcade and Xbox only 3 years earlier shows how much Microsoft screwed up.

Will we see more exclusives this E3? Probably. They want to launch Scorpio and Phil Spencer is a smart guy who understands that when Sony rolls out a murderer's row like Nioh, Persona 5, Horizon: Zero Dawn and Nier: Automata you can't just answer with Halo Wars 2 (why did they make that game? Seriously, why?) and Voodoo Vince and Phantom Dust remakes. To be fair to Xbox Sony didn't have much going on this holiday season and Xbox had Forza Horizon 3 (arguably the best racing game of all time) and Gears of War 4, as well as a temporary exclusivity for Dead Rising 4, so it's not quite as dire as it has looked during the first half of this year, but Spencer has to get that with Switch heating up and Playstation having huge momentum Xbox has to make some moves.

Avatar image for artisanbreads
ArtisanBreads

9107

Forum Posts

154

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 6

#12  Edited By ArtisanBreads

I find Sony's first party mostly overrated myself so I don't think it's such a difference for me. I think recently Sony has been doing a better job porting games over and/or Japanese developers are doing great work and mostly just make PS4 games. So in the end it has the superior exclusives but I don't give Sony so much credit for it as a company. I think it is the better choice for a console but I don't think either has been so great.

Avatar image for at93850
at93850

16

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Until the spring of this year I had only bought one Sony exclusive, Uncharted 4. Now I've bought Nier, Persona 5, and Horizon Zero Dawn. But in all honesty, overall I've bought more Microsoft ones (halo 5, forza horizon 2 and 3, forza 6, sunset overdrive, quantum break, halo wars 2) mainly because until now Sony really hasn't had that much that interested me. I know the poster above didn't like Halo Wars 2 but I actually really liked it because for once it wasn't a FPS, or RPG, or open world, etc that have been beaten to death the past few years. What I would like from Microsoft though is some new IP, Halo and Forza are great but are getting a little old (kind of like Uncharted 4, which wasn't my favorite either). Sunset overdrive was a great concept but then they ruined it by making it a soda zombie game, if they would have done anything else with it I think it would have been slam dunk. The comedy was great, the action was great, characters great, but the enemies were just out of place in my opinion.

Avatar image for bigsocrates
bigsocrates

6269

Forum Posts

184

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#14 bigsocrates  Online

@at93850: I didn't say I didn't like Halo Wars 2, I asked why they made it. It had no real chance of being a breakout success, and for it to be one of their big exclusives just...who is it for? I think a lot of people think it's a decent game (I haven't played it) but it was a sequel to an old game that isn't even a cult classic.

It was just a very strange decision IMO. And it doesn't seem to have sold well or even been promoted so...

Once again, why?

I personally loved Sunset Overdrive. One of my favorite early games of this generation, and its only competition is Forza Horizon 2. Holiday season 2014 was pretty great on Xbox One.

Avatar image for thepanzini
ThePanzini

1397

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#15  Edited By ThePanzini

@bigsocrates: Halo Wars One is a cult classic selling over 1 million copies (Crackdown did about the same Source) which is pretty good for a console RTS Source, HW2 wouldn't be a big investment it won't do giant numbers but its unlikely to lose much either and the niche that cares will appreciate HW2.

Smaller niche titles like Halo Wars is something MS should do more of it's something Sony is very good at Gravity Rush, Heavy Rain and The Last Guardian aren't pulling up trees in sales but create an audience who champion your console, generate mountains of good PR, never lose a great deal of money, and you never know if your small indie game could become the next Minecraft.

In context green lighting Crackdown 3 makes alot less sense the budget would be astronomical compared to Halo Wars and with a sales base no better its far less likely to see a return on investment.

Avatar image for berniesbc
berniesbc

254

Forum Posts

448

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

If you don't like Microsoft's output, maybe you should question why you're passionate about being an X-Box only user.

Avatar image for bigsocrates
bigsocrates

6269

Forum Posts

184

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#17 bigsocrates  Online

@thepanzini: Halo Wars 1 sold a million copies with Halo in its name in 2009, which was 4 years into the 360 era and close to the 360s peak in relevance. Crackdown 3 sold a million copies 2 years earlier as a new IP (albeit with a Halo demo to help it sell). Furthermore Crackdown has been a hugely influential game, whose impact has been seen in both obvious ways (Saints Row 4 had agility orbs) to less obvious ones (Zelda: BOTW had you climbing everything to find little goodies, in an open world and playing with physics systems, meaning that if it wasn't directly influenced by Crackdown it was at least influenced by games that were influenced by Crackdown.)

Crackdown is also in a genre that's doing very well (open world action) vs a genre that's basically dead (RTS.)

If you want to make a splash in 2017 Crackdown is a much more logical property than Halo Wars.

That being said, I should rephrase my question about why Microsoft would make a new Halo Wars. The real question isn't why make a new Halo Wars, it's why make a new Halo Wars if you're only releasing a few first party games a year. Mixed in to a large slate like Sony's, one of 10 or a dozen games released in a year, Halo Wars 2 would be fine. As the only first party release in the first part of 2017 it's a lot weirder.

RTS only appeals to a relatively niche audience at this point, and the game wasn't even heavily promoted or anything. It just seems odd to try to make Halo Wars 2 a lynchpin, but not to try hard enough that you significantly advertise it or anything.

I guess it's sort of like what Sony tried to do with The Order: 1886 except that The Order makes more sense in theory (being a gorgeous third person shooter) even if Halo Wars 2 is probably a better game.

Avatar image for dagas
dagas

3686

Forum Posts

851

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 8

People don't want to buy an Xbox One because lack of games. Companies don't want to make games because of lack of system owners.

Sony got off to a good start and that kind of decided the generation at least so far. MS could always come back like Sony did at the end of the last generation.

For me I had to get a PS4 because I like Japanese games and I no longer have the love for Halo and Forza that I had a decade ago. MS keep pumping out games for franchises that reached their peak a while ago.

Avatar image for werupenstein
Kidavenger

4417

Forum Posts

1553

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 90

User Lists: 33

I'd be extremely surprised if Xbox doesn't have some big unrevealed games for the Scorpio launch, honestly I think that is why their exclusives have been lackluster for the last few years, they need to make a big splash for Scorpio to have any hope of success.

Avatar image for cameron
Cameron

1056

Forum Posts

837

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 2

A lot of the difference is that PS4 gets a lot of Japanese games. The Xbox doesn't sell in Japan, and most Japanese games (other than Nintendo games... and maybe Final Fantasy) don't sell huge numbers in North America. As long as the PS4 is the console sales leader, there's little reason to bother with Xbox versions of their games.

Sony's first party output hasn't been great this generation. Uncharted 4 and Horizon Zero Dawn were awesome, but that's about it (I love The Last of Us Remastered, but that's not a new game). Most of the recent awesome PS4 exclusives have been Japanese third party games, like Nioh, Nier, Yakuza, and Persona. That doesn't change anything. An exclusive is still an exclusive. However, I don't think it's fair to say that Sony's first party development is doing much better than Microsoft's.

Avatar image for oursin_360
OurSin_360

6675

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

After the quantum break game failed to push units and having to cancel scalebound i'm sure they don't have much room to risk investing in exclusives. Plus all their major first party games have already gotten their annual sequel (gears/ halo etc). Not to mention they are doing the whole windows 10 play everywhere thing so their won't really be any exclusives anyway.

Avatar image for bigsocrates
bigsocrates

6269

Forum Posts

184

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#22 bigsocrates  Online

I'd be extremely surprised if Xbox doesn't have some big unrevealed games for the Scorpio launch, honestly I think that is why their exclusives have been lackluster for the last few years, they need to make a big splash for Scorpio to have any hope of success.

Maybe. Spencer did say that they had to extend the length of the E3 showcase, which suggests that they have quite a bit to show.

On the other hand there have been no leaks and not much buzz. And I thought Nintendo was going to have a bunch of stuff ready for the Switch launch after they did nothing on Wii U in the year leading up to it, but that's definitely not been the case.

I'm hopeful that Microsoft will have a bunch of stuff at the conference but if I had to guess it will be 1 or 2 new AAA titles, a bunch of indie stuff, a bunch of multiplats, and then talking up about how Scorpio will be the best place to play a bunch of the stuff we already know about.

I just don't see them announcing like 5 big new games and a new console. I would love it if they did, but I will be legitimately shocked.

Avatar image for thepanzini
ThePanzini

1397

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@bigsocrates: Yeah pretty much agree but because the genre isn't popular is not a good resaon why not?

Giving Creative Assembly 15 million~ to make HW2 doesn't stop MS releasing more first party games it would only need 500k~ to break even and beyond conference announcements/trailers, reviews maybe a web campaign release week niche titles won't and shouldn't get promoted much the people who care will find it. HW2 also has the added advantage of being a play anywhere title it has access to an audience the first never had promoting the Windows Store is reason enough for MS to green light the game.

Crackdown 3 on the other hand is a far riskier bet it maybe a more popular genre but it also a more saturated one CD3 history of low numbers and a slightly tainted one with CD2 flawed sequel. CD3 budget is going to be considrably higher 50-70~ million needing a big 30- million ad campaign too. Also having three studios Cloudgine, Reagent Games and Sumo Digital using Cloud tech in a big way CD3 has alot more moving parts and potential to go awry.

Both games make sense to make HW2 small budget quick turn around a second chance with play anywhere can push Win 10 Store, Crackdown 3 was greenlit when MS rep was very low a nostalgia game and proof of concept for the Cloud, but I do agree MS should be doing more they should have half-dozen HW2 each year.

Avatar image for ripelivejam
ripelivejam

13572

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

wait, the fable game is still coming out? that's a bit messed up.

Avatar image for bigsocrates
bigsocrates

6269

Forum Posts

184

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#25 bigsocrates  Online

wait, the fable game is still coming out? that's a bit messed up.

This is the Hearthstone clone, not the free to play action game that led to the studio being closed.

Whoever at Microsoft is in charge of the Fable property is a grade-A Moron. They took a reasonably good series of action RPGs (the third game was apparently not great, but it wasn't an irredeemable mess) and turned it into 1) A terrible beat 'em up called Fable Heroes, 2) An apparently good for a Kinect game (meaning objectively bad as a game) rail shooter, 3) a canceled weird free to play multiplayer...thing and 4) a collectible card game for some reason.

Like...the Fable property wasn't THAT strong to begin with. It doesn't need 4 ancillary games after the last main entry. Nobody is going to be like "Oh yeah, I remember the mildly disappointing game from 7 years ago...I want to play a CCG in THAT universe!"

Just make another Fable game or...don't. There's nothing to be gained from continually trying to beat this dead horse.

Avatar image for burncoat
burncoat

560

Forum Posts

4

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Bioware is announcing details of their new game on tomorrow's Xbox briefing. I wouldn't be shocked if that was announced as a timed exclusive for the XBox One.

Avatar image for thepanzini
ThePanzini

1397

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#27  Edited By ThePanzini

@burncoat: If Bioware's new game is a Xbox timed exclusive EA might as well shoot Bioware now and get it over with.

Avatar image for mrcraggle
mrcraggle

3104

Forum Posts

2873

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

The narrative that Microsoft don't have games is one being told by Sony fans. What were the big exclusives the PS4 had before 2016 and this year? Bloodbourne and very little else. The thing is, Japan has come back in a big way this generation that we didn't really see in the PS3/360 era and those studios will never develop for the Xbox because it just doesn't sell in Japan. Microsoft defined the previous generation with things like Xbox Live, XBLA, and created a media box like we hadn't seen before. This is also what lead Microsoft astray. They saw that a lot of people just used their Xbox for consuming media and that's where the Xbox One came in. It was a box that was a media centre first, games console second and that's been the issue since.

Games on the Xbox One simply do not perform as well as their PS4 counterparts. If the Xbox exclusives aren't there or simply don't interest you and the third party games perform worse, why would I choose the Xbox One over the PS4? The Scorpio definitely gives Microsoft the opportunity to change all of that. It's a much more powerful box there's no doubt about that but the difference needs to be obvious. I should just be able to take a game like Call of Duty and it just runs better without a developer having to do anything because that's been a huge issue with the PS4 Pro. I previously argued that the Pro wasn't that much more expensive than the standard PS4 so why not just buy that? But with developer support being so abysmal, it's now a questionable purchase. It was sold as a 4K console at last E3 but since then, there have only been a handle of games at that resolution with many just targeting 1440p. Take the recent Prey for example. 900p on Xbox One but still only 1080p on both the PS4 and the PS4 Pro with the latter just having a few additional graphical effects.

Avatar image for tyn0mite
tyn0mite

142

Forum Posts

224

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@jrodrz: I know how you feel. I'm the same way. What's your gamertag, by the way. It's hard finding other Xbox players around here sometimes!

Avatar image for jrodrz
jrodrz

239

Forum Posts

2022

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 5

Avatar image for jrodrz
jrodrz

239

Forum Posts

2022

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 5

I think the master plan has to be to eventually merge the platforms and make Xbox just a gaming brand for Windows PCs, which makes sense if you think about it. It's brand synergy, and Xbox has never been profitable for them anyway, so maintaining it in its own ecosystem probably isn't that interesting. Playstation has been a lynchpin of Sony and kept the company afloat but Xbox has only ever broken even for Microsoft and is more of a PR strategy than an actual important part of their business.

Sony also has some structural advantages. Japanese game developers don't think about Xbox and don't put their Japanese market focused games (like Persona 5, I am Setsuna, and the Yakuza series) on it. In addition, Playstation 4 has sold a lot more consoles so developers looking for the maximum audience on one platform go there too, and it's easier to convince developers to skip Xbox than skip Playstation because nobody wants to miss that huge PS4 market.

I bet Microsoft regrets this big time, I mean, launching the Xbox One at a $100 higher price point in comparison to its fiercest competitor? I couldn't understand it at the time and that's why I didn't buy mine until one year after launch, when they got the price down. Sony was smart enough to use that time to gain an advantage in player base and has held to that advantage until today. That said, I think MS is not looking at the bigger picture here. If Xbox is usually a break even division for the company, they've got two options: leave everything as it is and let Sony get most of the market share or f***ing do something about it and start improving the quality of exclusive games realeased, UI, UX and support. Hell, give reasons for people to switch to Xbox! I'm a huge fan of Japanese games and get so frustrated when I see games like Yakuza or FF7 remaster being PS4 exclusives, or other games like those released in the first half of this year only for PS4. I really hope that tomorrow's E3 conference is a turning point for the platform, because I will not buy Scorpio just to get better graphics and frame rate, I want quality IPs.

Avatar image for thephantompear
ThePhantomPear

51

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#32  Edited By ThePhantomPear

Because Microsoft, in its infinite wisdom, decided to shutter A LOT of PC developers after 2000 to chase the wild XBOX dream of a young and naive Bill Gates. Instead of using their internal PC developers like Digital Anvil (Freelancer etc.) to either bolster their xbox line-up or continue to have them exist, they just closed down left and right. Microsoft has a long history of mismanaging their internal developers and closing them down.

Even Bungie, famous for Halo, was a developer that was "bought out" in the beginning. The Gears of War franchise, was also a little studio called Epic Games. In fact, most of the developers for 1st party exclusive games, are not studios that Microsoft helpen create themselves. They threw moneybags around for exclusivity. During the 360-era, Call of Duty always had exclusive content. The money never went to creating new studios or creating new ideas, getting people together etc. Despite empty statements of being committed to 1st party, Microsoft never had the intention of nurturing a good stable of 1st party studios. Back in 200-2005, Microsoft Game Studios was a juggernaut. It was bigger than Sony and Nintendo combined, only for studios to get disbanded left and right to chase a console pipe dream. Now in 2017, they're feeling the effects of it. So Microsoft having fuck all, all stems from decisions made over 2 decades. The xbox360 had Microsoft resting on their laurels, because 3rd party support was enough in their eyes. That was prime time, almost an entire decade, to start new studios and they didn't. Hence the insistance of relying on Halo, Gears and Forza still continues.

Everything Microsoft does is reactionary and has no long-term plan. Oh PS4 is big on indies now? Let's respond with ID@XBOX. Oh our console is severely underpowered? Let's announce Scorpio! Better hardware was Microsoft needed but where is the promise of new exclusives and/or new studios? Phil Spencer seems like a likable guy but I doubt he has the budget to do radical changes to the xbox franchise. He still has to report to Satya Nadella and investors, who btw wanted to close down the xbox division at some point.

Avatar image for bigsocrates
bigsocrates

6269

Forum Posts

184

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#33 bigsocrates  Online

@thephantompear: This is a very one-sided picture of things. Yes Microsoft has mismanaged studios and closed studios that had a lot of talent, but so has every company. EA is notorious for buying and shuttering studios. I also don't know where you get the idea that Microsoft Games Studios used to be some juggernaut in the early 2000s. They definitely had some well-liked games like Age of Empires, Midtown Madness, and Asheron's Call, but few breakout hits. Also, everyone was abandoning the PC market in the early 2000s because of a variety of issues including World of Warcraft sucking all the oxygen out of the market and piracy screwing up everyone's profits. Steam would revitalize the market in the mid 2000s and now it's more robust and better than ever, but things were pretty dire for awhile.

Microsoft has also been working on building out its first party recently. They brought Halo and Gears in-house from third party studios (Bungie was a first party studio for awhile but it was independent before Microsoft acquired it as opposed to 343, which was built from the ground up to be an MS property.) Turn 10 is among the top racing game studios around and is first party. Microsoft is trying to bring Rare back to life by having them make actual hard core video games as opposed to avatar garbage and Kinect crap. A lot of they "moneyhat" temporary exclusivity deals we've seen recently have been left over from the old regime and just working their way through the pipeline. And MS has invested in new IP this generation too. They launched with Ryse, they put out Sunset Overdrive and Quantum Break (both second party projects, but Sony does lots of second party games as well and gets credit for them. Bloodborne and Until Dawn were both second party, for example.) Those games didn't catch on (though Sunset Overdrive was ridiculously good) but sometimes that just happens. Sony launched Driveclub, which was a broken mess for MONTHS and even when fixed was nowhere near as good as the Forza series, which has launched 4 games this generation (3 of which are amazing, with Forza 5 being kind of poopy).

The idea that Microsoft doesn't innovate is also forgetting history. Achievements and Xbox Live Arcade both helped to fundamentally remake the console market last generation, with XBLA being by far the more important of the two. The PS3 wasn't built with downloadable games in mind, which becomes obvious if you ever actually use a PS3, and trophies had to be patched in. The irony of ID@Xbox being seen as copying Sony's relationship with indie developers is that Microsoft had those relationships first, with XBLA, they just somehow botched a lot of them through mismanagement. But if you look at the first half of the 7th generation you see Microsoft redefined what a console game was in 2005 with XBLA and kept redefining it for the first half of that generation through Summer of Arcade. Summer of Arcade 2008 is still an INSANE lineup almost 10 years later. Geometry Wars 2, Braid, Bionic Commando Rearmed, and Castle Crashers are all games that remain memorable and could be launched today and find audiences.

Where Xbox 360 went wrong was not in courting third parties. It was Kinect. Kinect is the elephant in the room when it comes to Microsoft's console downfall, and it's only not talked about today because it was buried so quickly this gen (though I still have a Kinect.) It was a $500,000,000 launch, sold a bunch of units and then...nobody had any idea of what to do with the thing. None. It's one of the most bizarre things I've ever seen in the video game industry. They created this camera in response to Nintendo's Wii, spent a huge amount to launch it, and never stopped to ask if the thing actually worked OR what kinds of games were good to play on it. I think the only game that I've ever heard positive things about with that thing was the Happy Action Theater thing, which wasn't so much a game as a silly toy application. Kinect didn't work and it wrecked Microsoft's development as they pivoted hard towards it. If you look at Rare for the first half of the 360 gen, for example, you see 1) Kameo: Elements of Spirit, 2) the Viva Pinata games and 3) Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts. Those were all well-received to some degree or another. They might not have been vintage N64 rare, but they were better than Star Fox Adventures, and the Giant Bomb guys have long argued that Nuts and Bolts was the best Banjo-Kazooie game (and Viva Pinata was great.) There's also Perfect Dark Zero, which is a disaster of a game, but in execution, not concept.

Then, after Kinect, Rare is assigned to make crappy sports games and avatar shit and becomes emblematic of Microsoft's mismanagement. Microsoft also doubled down on Kinect for the 8th generation, despite STILL having no idea what to do with the thing, and despite the fact that it led to them launching a console that was overpriced and underpowered. It was stupid hubris (mixed with terrible messaging about used games, even though their ideas there were actually ahead of their time) and it caused huge damage to the company. There was also relationship mismanagament with third parties and a failure to build new franchises because everyone was working on Kinect crap, but Kinect is really the point where Microsoft goes off the rails. If Xbox were a stand alone company rather than a division of one of the big five tech firms Kinect might be seen like the 32X, only with fewer fun games to play on it.

This became a long rant, but the TL;DR of it is, Kinect is what screwed up Xbox, not the reliance on second party games or shuttering the company that made that worldbeating hit, Freelancer. Microsoft bet huge for two console generations on tech that wasn't ready and they didn't know how to utilize, and has spent the last half-decade trying to dig themselves out of a Kinect shaped hole.

Avatar image for thepanzini
ThePanzini

1397

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@jrodrz: We know the Xbox division has been profitable and growing every year, the PS4 may have a 2-1 sales advantage but not in revenue Xbox makes more from their users. Barring any major cock-ups RROD / Kinetic the Xbox will always generate very healthy numbers they may have lost market share but ~30 million users is nothing to scoff at.

I think people forget the challenge facing MS, Sony launched the PS3 a worse console a year later with a $100 premium and still matched the 360 trouncing it in EU/Asia, if all things being equal a new generation is Sony's to lose.

Avatar image for soulcake
soulcake

2874

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Sony at this point should just make a "Where's the beef" commercial pointing out that Xboxone has like almost nothing for it ( I liked that Forza Horizon 3 )

Avatar image for deactivated-5a0917a2494ce
deactivated-5a0917a2494ce

1349

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 5

User Lists: 4

Remember that Microsoft didn’t need to have much first party support during the Xbox 360 era. They had the most popular console with the most sell-through. Yes, they had first party games, but they didn’t need to output a lot of first party stuff.

Sony needed a reason to buy a PS3, some competitive advantage. They built up a lot of first-party support during this era. They easily transitioned this into the PS4. Microsoft has dropped the ball though, they need to do what Sony did, but they haven’t. Why? My guess is the lack of focus on the Xbox from MS; they have more profitable departments to look after.

Avatar image for corwag
Corwag

427

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

If Microsoft was smart they will announce an exclusive console version of Battlegrounds tonight. I'd buy an S for that.

Avatar image for artisanbreads
ArtisanBreads

9107

Forum Posts

154

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 6

#38  Edited By ArtisanBreads

@mrcraggle: Good post. I agree with you on Sony's games for sure.

I think the PS4 Pro has been a joke because it was such a small step forward. At least Microsoft isn't taking a lame half step. In fact, in the DF piece I was reading today they were talking about how Scorpio hardware was basically outperforming 1070/1080 cards on Forza 6. I don't even know how this will work out but I think hardly doing any upgrade was the worst move.

Avatar image for artisanbreads
ArtisanBreads

9107

Forum Posts

154

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 6

@bigsocrates: I agree on Kinect but I also think the reveal of the Xbox One can't be overlooked. As dumb as I found the response, they still handled it all really badly and let Sony make them look stupid. I think that mattered a lot actually. Even casual fans of games I know came out immediately saying "get a PS4 you can't play used games on Xbox" and stuff at the time.

If people want to bemoan the loss of great classic developers I'm with them but notice how many of these stories there are around... do we not see a pattern?

Avatar image for bigsocrates
bigsocrates

6269

Forum Posts

184

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#40  Edited By bigsocrates  Online

@bigsocrates: I agree on Kinect but I also think the reveal of the Xbox One can't be overlooked. As dumb as I found the response, they still handled it all really badly and let Sony make them look stupid. I think that mattered a lot actually. Even casual fans of games I know came out immediately saying "get a PS4 you can't play used games on Xbox" and stuff at the time.

If people want to bemoan the loss of great classic developers I'm with them but notice how many of these stories there are around... do we not see a pattern?

The reveal of the Xbox One was definitely bad, but I think MS could have recovered if not for the albatross of the Kinect. The Kinect is what caused the Xbox One to cost $100 more than PS4 and be less powerful. A lot of people blame the used game thing, and that's definitely part of the story, but the Xbox One was just a less compelling package overall at the beginning of this generation and in some ways remains less compelling. The UI was structured around the Kinect, and while they've fixed that to some degree it's not as smooth or responsive as the PS4 or, especially, the Switch UI.

You can also definitely blame it on the weird "Hey guys, this is a $500 media box that also plays games, I don't know, it controls your TV but it doesn't have DVR functions or actually act as a cable box, why would anyone want this in an age of cord cutting? Nobody knows, I'll get back to you." messaging, which I see as connected to the Kinect because it was part of the same strategy.

The used game thing hurt, but it was in the context of a lot of Kinect-related problems that made it much harder to recover.

I always found it ironic that the Xbox One actually launched with better AAA games than the Playstation 4 (Resogun is arguably the best launch game of the 8th gen, though Killer Instinct has held up pretty well over time with what they've done with it.) but all that was lost in terrible messaging. Ryse is a decent action game, which would have been even better if it hadn't started life as a crappy Kinect game, and Dead Rising 3 was a good Dead Rising game. The PS4 launched with Killzone: Shadowfall, which everyone seemed to hate, though the multiplayer was...fine, and Knack, which is somehow getting a sequel while Ryse isn't, which is...

Ryse was actually fun but flawed. I finished Ryse and I'd play another one like that, though I'd prefer it not be set in Rome...it could be really cool set in Medieval Europe or Japan. Or if they wanted to do something crazy, a game like Ryse set in America just after the arrival of Columbus with you playing a warrior having to fight off the invaders would be really fresh and exciting.

Knack was...well...Knack.

If the Xbox One had been $400 and technologically on par with PS4, and if Microsoft hadn't been Kinect focused and hadn't pumped out trash like the Fighters Within (WHY would you launch that along with your "new, improved" Kinect? Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.) I think MS could have recovered and if not won the generation at least made it a race. Instead it's slowly trying to walk back the problems of the Kinect era and soft-rebooting the console.

The Xbox One launch conference was a disaster but it was recoverable. They changed the policies before the thing even launched. The problems caused by Kinect went a lot deeper and still haven't fully healed.

Avatar image for artisanbreads
ArtisanBreads

9107

Forum Posts

154

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 6

#41  Edited By ArtisanBreads

@bigsocrates: I think the PS4 exclusives were decent at best until recently and even then, some, like Uncharted 4, bore me a lot. Ryse plays pretty well but I agree, even as a fan of that period seeing Roman stuff can get tired.

I think your media center point is right on too. I would say it was kind of the mixing of the three (shitty media box strategy, Kinect, messaging) but as you point out one of those made it cost $100 more, as a less powerful system too, and that just can't happen.

Avatar image for opusofthemagnum
OpusOfTheMagnum

647

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

If you don't like MS's exclusives you should probably sell your Xbox and save for a PS4. Xbox One is a fine place for third party titles and has had quite a few excellent exclusives. This is the first year they have, imo, been significantly outpaced with major exclusives. And it's mostly been third party stuff, seduced by the sales advantage.

If MS can do better with VR, and can get a larger collection of interesting new IPs it would be hugely helpful.

Avatar image for thepanzini
ThePanzini

1397

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Kinetic and the reveal with both equal disasters across Europe the Kinetic functionality Americans got day one half of Europe never received simply watching TV through the XB1 ment constant hitching because of the PAL 50hz TV output, referring to half of Europe as tier 2 was the icing on the cake.

Avatar image for corwag
Corwag

427

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

So is this the year they finally rid themselves of the Kinect anchor around their neck and replace it with a VR noose?

Avatar image for thepanzini
ThePanzini

1397

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@corwag: They already said Scorpio VR will launch next year won't be at E3.

Avatar image for bigsocrates
bigsocrates

6269

Forum Posts

184

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#46 bigsocrates  Online

@artisanbreads: I see where you're coming from but I liked Uncharted 4. It was so pretty and the climbing stuff was still simple but improved just enough for me to find it engaging. Also while the overall story was meh the characters and performances were good and it ended on a great note. And it was so pretty. So pretty. I do agree that Uncharted combat in general is tedious. It's a combination of the bullet sponge enemies and constantly getting flanked. Naughty Dog wants you to jump from cover to cover like a shooting monkey but I am not good enough to do that so I have to employ hit and run tactics to thin out the herd and it just becomes repetitive and lame. I don't like stealth in games very much but I think Uncharted might be most engaging if you're trying to be stealthy, since at least that works with the traversal abilities.

As for the Xbox media center thing...I try to imagine who they imagined that was for.

Microsoft Executive: We have a $500 box you hook up to TV to enhance you're viewing experience.

Sane Person: So it's like a super fancy DVR?

ME: It has no DVR function.

SP: So it replaced my cable box? That's intriguing, since I really hate my cable-

ME: No. It works WITH your cable box. Synergy! Another layer of middleman tech!

SP: Ok. So what does it do?

ME: You can watch TV, or Netflix, or Hulu or whatever!

SP: So it's like a Roku that also controls my TV? A Roku costs $85 and a remote is like $8...

ME: No, no! It's so much more! You can...use a TV guide function? And like see NFL scores?

SP: But I already have a phone and an Ipad.

ME: Yes, but a phone and an Ipad don't obscure the screen you're watching with an overlay.

SP: Why does this cost $500? Is it plated in gold?

ME: No. It has a lot of expensive components for video games. Also a creepy camera that only kind of works.

SP: Video games?

ME: We don't want to talk about that.

I imagine there was a similar conversation for the Kinect.

Microsoft Executive: For the Xbox One we're LAUNCHING with Kinect. So everyone will have one.

Sane Person: Ok. have you fixed it so it works?

ME: It's better. 50% recognition instead of 33%. That's a real improvement.

SP: That doesn't seem great. Have you figured out how to make good games for it?

ME: No! Fighters Within is literally worse than gonorrhea!

SP: Well at least you're packing it in for free...

ME: Nope! Xbox is $100 more expensive because of it!

SP: Why am I supposed to want this thing?

ME: Dunno. We started down this road and we can't stop now. Kinect for everyone! Yayyyy Kinect!

Avatar image for corwag
Corwag

427

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@corwag: They already said Scorpio VR will launch next year won't be at E3.

Woof.

Avatar image for bigsocrates
bigsocrates

6269

Forum Posts

184

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#48 bigsocrates  Online

the Kinetic functionality Americans got day one half of Europe never received

This sounds pretty bad, but in actuality it's a pretty minor loss. The main thing people actually use Kinect for these days is Skype. The voice control stuff was okay...I guess...but pretty small beans.

Avatar image for pyrodactyl
pyrodactyl

4223

Forum Posts

4

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#49  Edited By pyrodactyl

@horseman6 said:

Remember that Microsoft didn’t need to have much first party support during the Xbox 360 era. They had the most popular console with the most sell-through. Yes, they had first party games, but they didn’t need to output a lot of first party stuff.

Sony needed a reason to buy a PS3, some competitive advantage. They built up a lot of first-party support during this era. They easily transitioned this into the PS4. Microsoft has dropped the ball though, they need to do what Sony did, but they haven’t. Why? My guess is the lack of focus on the Xbox from MS; they have more profitable departments to look after.

Also important to note: the few exclusives they had last gen were still fresh and novel. Halo 3, Gears of War, Lost Planet, Dead Rising, Mass Effect, Crackdown. They weren't all bangers but they could coast on novelty alone. Along with an impressive list of de-facto timed exclusives like Elder Scrolls Oblivion and Mass Effect 2 they had by far the best timely lineup out of the 3, last generation.

But now that the timed exclusives are 95% gone and the novelty of their franchise has worn off a long time ago they're left far behind Sony this generation. Sony has been getting the de-facto exclusive this time because of its better standing in Japan while Microsoft struggles to sell sequels to very tired franchises.

And now that Nintendo is starting to compete for real I don't see Microsoft being able to carve a share of the market. They just made very poor game developement decisions years ago and are completely stuck.