The Motorsport Series

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GeorgeKansas

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I'm a big arcade racing fan. I grew up playing Daytona (ROLLING START!) and Cruis'n USA in actual arcades before those died out, and some of my favorite games ever include Midtown Madness 3, Burnout 3 and Mario Kart DS. I love trading paint, rally racing, etc.

So the Forza series has never super interested me, because every time I played one of the 360 games at a friend's house they felt sluggish and never had enough replayability to me. As in, running the same tracks in different cars didn't interest me as much as racing different tracks in the same cars. I don't know, it just never clicked for me.

So when I got my own 360 around October of 2012, right around the time the first Forza Horizon came out, it looked different and interesting and the GB quick look basically persuaded me to get it. And I loved it. I remember playing the shit out of that game. Hundreds of hours, at least. It completely changed my mind about Forza. It took the Need for Speed games, which had always been arcade racers that were trying a little too hard to be realistic for me, and put the necessary polish and variety needed to make a game like that spectacular. I was sold.

But when I got my own Xbox One at launch and ordered Forza 5 to go along with it, I was very disappointed. The game had problems, to be sure. The load times were way too long, the drivatars were hilariously evil, and half the time the customization options it tried to bake into the game wouldn't load. It was certainly a launch game. But the game had even bigger structural problems to me, and these are ones that I think may carry on into the next Motorsport game, coming out next week. So I'd like to ask if some things are just series staples, whether the game just isn't for me, and whether maybe I'm just playing the game wrong.

1) The camera. I like to play my racers with the camera behind the car. It allows me to see my car, gives me a good indication of how I'm turning and hitting the cars around me, and lets me visualize the area I'm racing in better. There are a lot of reasons I prefer it. But for some reason, Forza Motorsport (not Horizon) feels better with the camera on the front bumper. It allows you to feel the turns better, which is vital for a game like this. I hate it though. What's the point of playing if you can't see your own car that you spent so much time customizing? Is my perception that the front bumper camera is better total BS? How do you guys play the game?

2) The tracks. I'd like to think that I just don't understand the feature set of this game, that I must be missing something and there must be more creative sections of this game that I am missing. The single player was always boring as nails to me because it was the exact same tracks with different classes of cars, with very little variety. I look at some older videos of Forza and there's stuff like car soccer and I think that those mods look really cool, but I don't remember any of that being available in Forza 5. Was I just missing it? Is there more that I'm totally missing? Or is the game's true variety just in the cars like I fear?

3) The gameplay. I guess I just feel like I'm playing the game wrong, so I'd like to hear from you guys. Why do you come to Forza? What are your favorite things to do? Does Forza 6 look like it's going to be a good one of those or is it really just some track and weather additions like it's looking to be?

Sorry for the longpost, but every time I see something about Motorsport 6 I get the Horizon 1 & 2 memories stuck in my head and I want to love again. The GB race night looks really cool too, and I did a few of those last year when Horizon 2 started, but I don't want that to be the main selling point for me. Thanks in advance for the responses!

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markini6

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It's a question of accepting Forza for what it is, tbh. Horizon 2 was one of my favourite games of last year, and probably the best/most fun racing game I'd played since Burnout 3 (sorry Paradise/PGR fans!). For the mainline Forza, it's a different vibe, calmer and less exhilarating, but still satisfying. For me, it's a great podcast game, as I can listen to stuff whilst still getting into the zone and really begin to feel those corners (it's all about the corners/turning!).

As for the camera thing, I play with the same viewpoint as you and I've never had a problem with it. I didn't really play Forza 5, so maybe it was specifically worse in that instance, but it's what I use in all the other games without any issues.

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Franstone

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#3  Edited By Franstone

I play a lot of different games so I am no Forza pro by any means but this is what I've got for ya.

1) I typically prefer the in car dash view across all racing games that provide it. Always feels like you have more control, less likely to spin out. You might not get a good view of your own car but you do get a better, more up close and personal view of every other car on the track, feels more immersive to me. The detailed interiors are great. Force yourself to play that way, you might get hooked. I have a cousin that hated in-car view (nor is he a racing fan in general) but he tried with the Horizon: Fast and Furious freebie and he totally converted and felt the difference I've been speaking of for years.

2) At it's core Forza is a racing simulator, not rocket league or mario kart obviously. Kinda sounds like (to me) saying what's with this football game? All you do is play football...
Of course more modes are always better but maybe they've changed focus or simply don't have the time for it. Maybe in a later version.

3) Drive cars (most that I'll never be able to afford) fast. Horizon definitely has more personality (colors) and variety which is a nice breath of fresh air from the more "simmy" racers out there. Forza 6 seems to address that a bit more, not sure if it's the colorful track of Rio in the demo but when I compare it to 5 (from memory) Forza 6 seems to feel a bit more "alive" if that makes any sense. Damn that rain and puddles are good. Night racing!

Well that's my take on it.

Hope you get "the love" back.

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bigsocrates

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#4  Edited By bigsocrates

The mainline Forza series is much more of a racing sim than the Horizon series. At the beginning of this post you said "I like arcade racers, but sims don't really interest me. I wasn't into Forza until they came out with an arcade version of the game, and then I loved that. Then I tried the next sim iteration and it wasn't fun, but the sequel to the arcade racer was fun.

Will I like the new sim?"

Probably not. It seems like you enjoy arcade racers more than sims so you like the Horizon series more than mainline Forza (I'm definitely not judging, I'm 100% the same way.) I don't think Forza 6 is fundamentally different from 5, so if you try the demo and it doesn't grab you I would pass. Forza Horizon 3 will probably be out in 2016. If you're not into the mainline Forza style of sim racing, well, they're not overhauling it radically for the 6th iteration, so while something may click for you it probably won't. It's just not your thing. I would at least wait until a significant discount.

P.S. the one thing I will say about the 'front bumper' view is that Forza is a bit of a car porn game and I think expects you to watch replays a fair amount. During the race you're supposed to focus on sticking to your line and performing well, then you enjoy the car porn in replay mode. If that seems dumb to you then I would just submit it as more evidence that mainline Forza is not for you. You're a Horizon guy. It's why they made Horizon. They realized that not everyone was going to enjoy the sim-style racing so they made a sub series just for guys like you (and me!)

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trace

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I think it's worth emphasizing that there's a lot about Forza Motorsport 5 that simply wasn't great compared to Forza 4, most notably in the lack of variety and features. I'm not certain Forza 6 will alleviate that enough to be the best in the series, but from what I've seen it's a step in the right direction.

To your points:

Camera view: There's nothing wrong with using an chase camera, but it's not going to feel beneficial in the same way it would in arcade racers. Forza isn't doing much to compensate in the controls or camera shifts for using that view, and what you're feeling is a lack of connection to the steering/pedal input. I personally prefer the hood camera, as it gives me that connection and a good field of vision ahead that isn't obscured by in-car stuff I wouldn't have any focus on in real life.

Tracks: Forza 6, like with Forza 5, seems to be moving further away from fantasy tracks and silly game modes. Car soccer might return, but I honestly doubt it, and given the only fantasy track announced was the showcase Rio track, I think the hopes for wild courses like Fujimi Kaido and Rally di Positano returning are slim as well. As for the tracks...that's auto racing anywhere. It's memorizing turns and braking points, adjusting for the car in play, and attempting to put together the best race possible amongst a field of drivers looking to do the same. If the repetition is something that dissuades you, Horizon might be the safer bet, although I'd argue Horizon actually has more repetitive courses. They're just a little more freeform in how they can be tackled.

Gameplay: From what I've tried so far, the cars in Forza 6 seem to be a little more connected to the road than in 5, where they felt rather loose under all kinds of braking and acceleration. That's what I gleaned from some short demos, so no clue if what I've noticed in handling is true. The real key is this, all improvements aside: What would you want to do in Forza 6? If you don't have a good answer for that, it might be best to wait until you see something that does appeal to you in footage or gameplay. If you don't have that urge to jump in with Motorsport, it's OK! You're not necessarily missing out. It just might not be what you're looking for, and that's totally fine.

As for me, there's a bunch of reasons since I'm a huge racing fan, but it's mainly the variety of tracks, cars, and rules I can set in multiplayer. I've been throwing together dumb, evil, and potentially entertaining races for over 300 weeks. It would be silly to stop now.

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GeorgeKansas

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2) At it's core Forza is a racing simulator, not rocket league or mario kart obviously. Kinda sounds like (to me) saying what's with this football game? All you do is play football...

This is totally fair and I guess what I'm saying is that I love the way Forza looks and I could probably adjust to the way it plays, but I'm just not sure if I can appreciate the repetitiveness of the gameplay. I can find that zen while playing Fifa, which is just the exact same game over and over, but with driving I'm not sure I find the same number of fun permutations in the same basic event.

The mainline Forza series is much more of a racing sim than the Horizon series. At the beginning of this post you said "I like arcade racers, but sims don't really interest me. I wasn't into Forza until they came out with an arcade version of the game, and then I loved that. Then I tried the next sim iteration and it wasn't fun, but the sequel to the arcade racer was fun.

Will I like the new sim?"

Probably not. It seems like you enjoy arcade racers more than sims so you like the Horizon series more than mainline Forza (I'm definitely not judging, I'm 100% the same way.) I don't think Forza 6 is fundamentally different from 5, so if you try the demo and it doesn't grab you I would pass. Forza Horizon 3 will probably be out in 2016. If you're not into the mainline Forza style of sim racing, well, they're not overhauling it radically for the 6th iteration, so while something may click for you it probably won't. It's just not your thing. I would at least wait until a significant discount.

P.S. the one thing I will say about the 'front bumper' view is that Forza is a bit of a car porn game and I think expects you to watch replays a fair amount. During the race you're supposed to focus on sticking to your line and performing well, then you enjoy the car porn in replay mode. If that seems dumb to you then I would just submit it as more evidence that mainline Forza is not for you. You're a Horizon guy. It's why they made Horizon. They realized that not everyone was going to enjoy the sim-style racing so they made a sub series just for guys like you (and me!)

This makes sense. The replay thing seems crazy to me but I guess it makes sense for people who really, really like cars. I appreciate the cars and love the way they look but I don't know if I'd ever find myself watching a replay of myself driving in a car game.

@Trace said:

I think it's worth emphasizing that there's a lot about Forza Motorsport 5 that simply wasn't great compared to Forza 4, most notably in the lack of variety and features. I'm not certain Forza 6 will alleviate that enough to be the best in the series, but from what I've seen it's a step in the right direction.

To your points:

Camera view: There's nothing wrong with using an chase camera, but it's not going to feel beneficial in the same way it would in arcade racers. Forza isn't doing much to compensate in the controls or camera shifts for using that view, and what you're feeling is a lack of connection to the steering/pedal input. I personally prefer the hood camera, as it gives me that connection and a good field of vision ahead that isn't obscured by in-car stuff I wouldn't have any focus on in real life.

Tracks: Forza 6, like with Forza 5, seems to be moving further away from fantasy tracks and silly game modes. Car soccer might return, but I honestly doubt it, and given the only fantasy track announced was the showcase Rio track, I think the hopes for wild courses like Fujimi Kaido and Rally di Positano returning are slim as well. As for the tracks...that's auto racing anywhere. It's memorizing turns and braking points, adjusting for the car in play, and attempting to put together the best race possible amongst a field of drivers looking to do the same. If the repetition is something that dissuades you, Horizon might be the safer bet, although I'd argue Horizon actually has more repetitive courses. They're just a little more freeform in how they can be tackled.

Gameplay: From what I've tried so far, the cars in Forza 6 seem to be a little more connected to the road than in 5, where they felt rather loose under all kinds of braking and acceleration. That's what I gleaned from some short demos, so no clue if what I've noticed in handling is true. The real key is this, all improvements aside: What would you want to do in Forza 6? If you don't have a good answer for that, it might be best to wait until you see something that does appeal to you in footage or gameplay. If you don't have that urge to jump in with Motorsport, it's OK! You're not necessarily missing out. It just might not be what you're looking for, and that's totally fine.

As for me, there's a bunch of reasons since I'm a huge racing fan, but it's mainly the variety of tracks, cars, and rules I can set in multiplayer. I've been throwing together dumb, evil, and potentially entertaining races for over 300 weeks. It would be silly to stop now.

The camera suggestions in the past few posts is very helpful. In-car and hood both sound like they'd at least anchor my car and allow me to see where I am.

As for the multiplayer, what kind of evil races are you able to create? What kind of fun is there to be had in the multiplayer variety-wise? I actually am interested in the options!

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