I didn't play Goldeneye till about 4 years ago. I frigging hated it. Perfect Dark is better, but mostly because of the world. The game play still feels messy.

Cool opinion bro.

" I am part of the group that know much better PC games at the time and therefore considers it just another console game.   My 2 cents "

" So I was having a conversation with a couple of my friends, both indie game developers, about what we thought were the best videogames ever made were. Obviously many have attempted to make this list, and like others we had our own criteria: 
 

1. The game must still be relevant in terms of gameplay.
2. The game's gameplay must have few to no ways to be improved.
3. Most importantly: No nostalgia! A game is not good simply because it is old.

 

" @august said:

" If you were into pc fps games at the time Goldeneye was pretty painful to play even at release. "

Yeah that's what GB said, good work parrot. Except Goldeneye came out about a year before those great PC games came out like Unreal and Half Life. Unless you meant Quake 2, lol. So no. At release, you weren't playing Half Life and Goldeneye wasn't painful. This bullshit revisionist history coming from people who clearly didn't play Goldeneye when it came out is painful. I'd love to see someone come in and say fucking Heretic and fucking Quake 1 and 2 outclass Goldeneye, I'd fucking love to have a laugh. Or Descent. Dear god, someone say Descent is better than Goldeneye, make my night. "

" @Hero_Swe said:

" I am part of the group that know much better PC games at the time and therefore considers it just another console game.   My 2 cents "

Ah, yes. We like to call this bunch elitists. "

" @GetEveryone said:

" @Hero_Swe said:

" I am part of the group that know much better PC games at the time and therefore considers it just another console game.   My 2 cents "

Ah, yes. We like to call this bunch elitists. "

Yep, the same bunch that likes Goldeneye in that way. "

I can agree with that. Though it wouldn't be one of my favorites ever anyways.
 
I like your criteria.

The idea that Goldeneye is unplayable is ridiculous hyperbole. It's perfectly playable, I played through it again about 2 years ago or so and I had fun.
 
I've got to agree with Ryanwho also, if you compare it to the PC FPS games that were actually out when Goldeneye was released as opposed to the games that were released 6 to 12 months later, then Goldeneye holds it's own. I'd play the Goldeneye single player campaign again rather than the single player campaign in any PC FPS released before the first Half-Life.

I think it should be compared to Halo more than COD. They both look like crap, yet people love them. They both have a limited amount of guns. And they both have a wide array of gameplay types (Oddball and Throwing Knives). 

By the way the controls were not that bad if you used a control scheme other than the default (1.1). I can't remember what the control scheme was called (EDIT: It was 1.2 I think), but the one where forward, back, strafe left and right were mapped to the C buttons and the analogue stick was used to look around was the best. I really don't see what is so bad about that control scheme. Forward, back and strafe don't need to be analog anyway, you don't play PC FPS with analog control for those movements (unless you have analog WASD keys!)

Why does the debate about best games of all time have to focus on tearing games down?

" @ryanwho said:

" @august said:

" If you were into pc fps games at the time Goldeneye was pretty painful to play even at release. "

Yeah that's what GB said, good work parrot. Except Goldeneye came out about a year before those great PC games came out like Unreal and Half Life. Unless you meant Quake 2, lol. So no. At release, you weren't playing Half Life and Goldeneye wasn't painful. This bullshit revisionist history coming from people who clearly didn't play Goldeneye when it came out is painful. I'd love to see someone come in and say fucking Heretic and fucking Quake 1 and 2 outclass Goldeneye, I'd fucking love to have a laugh. Or Descent. Dear god, someone say Descent is better than Goldeneye, make my night. "

As far as input devices go a wet trout would be a mild improvement over the N64 controller. "

It comes down to values and opinions. Golden Eye was a groundbreaking game for console FPSs. I guarantee, if anyone my age was placed infront of a TV with this game, we would play it for hours. In fact, we would have about six or seven of our friends waiting to join in. That was exactly what happened a few weeks ago when one of my friends held a throwback game party. No one sat around complaining about crappy controls. We were too busy killing each other. That put a major dent in your theory about relevancy. The rest all depends on your definitions of what is improvable. Any game that is setting a trend is going to have room for improvement. That is a defining characteristic of being the first of anything. By those same standards, any athlete from the past could never be called one of the best, because most of the records they set and feats they accomplished will all be met or bettered.  The "no nostalgia" rule is just stupid and closed-minded. So this all comes down to your list of greatest games, an opinion, which seems to biased based on the age of a game.

I played a ton of GoldenEye 007 back in the day, and now it doesn't play well at all, but games like Super Mario World are still untouched, and probably has the best gameplay of any game still, with tight ass controls.

1. The game must still be relevant in terms of gameplay.
2. The game's gameplay must have few to no ways to be improved.
3. Most importantly: No nostalgia! A game is not good simply because it is old.

You can't compare the visual effects of Casablanca to Inception and hypothesize that Casablanca is not a good movie because there was much to be improved upon. "

Thats a lot of words.
 
All you had to write was... PC shooters already existed, therefore it wasn't.

Downplaying a game based on how the controller was designed is absurd, every game doesn't have to play the same. "