Did the trailer come out last year? I just watched it the other day for an hour... studying every frame. Some of the more obvious details were different main characters. The two characters on the right look like they have been redesigned since, and the guy on the left wasn't in the trailer. Or the trailer characters were just NPC's and it's just a coincidence.

I am looking forward to this. The Grand Theft Auto series can make me cry with rage one moment, and have fun not long after like no other IP can.

Good to see they're doing something different with this one.

Great move.

Also disappointed if they're all male.

Nice, I was hoping for a female protagonist though.

@MiniPato: So then this isn't an issue of writing, but rather, of gameplay system that coincide with the writing.

@Meowshi said:

You can't ask "why am I being silly" and use the word "manginas" in the same sentence. You just can't.

Yes, I can. I just did. Mangina is a fitting word for men who identify more with women and their rights and representation over their own sex and issues.

You said: "First I'd like to just point out that everyone does not think like you."

Thank you. Very enlightened.

You said: "Just because you don't care about the gender or ethnicity of your character in video games, doesn't mean that no one should. "

I agree. That is not the issue here. The issue is that too many nauseating feminist and manginas believe that whining about things make a difference. That change is talking about how they miss female characters in games instead of 1) Buying games that have female leads they find interesting (giving game creators reasons to make more games like that) or 2) make their own games with female leads. But no, instead they make a wish list, trying to make something come out of the air. Caring calls for action not just ranting, deconstructing and complaining.

You said: "I was really excited when it was announced that GTA San Andreas would have a black protagonist and I was really excited when it was announced that GTA IV would have a non-American protagonist."

Why? To me it just seems you have a xenophile perception. Its very common to people being exposed to too much leftwing BS. Many, many games have explored this issue. "Fish out of water" game stories are plentiful.

You said: "Just like any unexplored narrative would be."

There are no unexplored narrative.

You said: "If you're going to intentionally misinterpret people longing for a new perspective in a GTA game as "forced progressiveness", then yes, you are being silly. The fact is that you're the only one being over-sensitive here. Someone simply going, "Dang, it would have been cool to play as a female character this time," has sent you into a frothing mix of ignorance and shortsightedness."

Well, the problem is the manginas who think they shimmer when they say/write some PC BS. They say they long for something that already exists, and wish that games that work would adapt to their -ism oriented needs. But what will always be funny is how little aware they are of how bigoted they truly sound.

@Anwar said:

@Meowshi said:

@AndyAce83 said:

Also the "you are the one making the fuzz" ending is dull. I just point out how stupid it sound. I have a right to do that and it is a PC issue forced by progressive manginas.

But it's absolutely true. The reactionary response to any topic regarding females in video games is silly, as is bringing up irrelevant nonsense like the Feminist Frequency. You guys need to grow up.

Oh yeah, what's with those videos anyway? Shouldn't she give the money back? Where are those videos?

Who cares?

And booth babes who work for fighting games during conventions apparently don't know jack shit about those games according to Klepek, so don't just throw around nonsensical crap like 'female protagonist'. Why does the gender of the protagonist(s) matter?

That's like asking why did CJ being black matter in San Andreas. It was essential to that game's setting and atmosphere, and provided an exciting change in perspective.

@Meowshi said:

But it's absolutely true. The reactionary response to any topic regarding females in video games is silly, as is bringing up irrelevant nonsense like the Feminist Frequency. You guys need to grow up.

Yes, that shut me up. Especially the "need to grow up" part. Insightful.

@Anwar said:

Oh yeah, what's with those videos anyway? Shouldn't she give the money back? Where are those videos?

And booth babes who work for fighting games during conventions apparently don't know jack shit about those games according to Klepek, so don't just throw around nonsensical crap like 'female protagonist'. Why does the gender of the protagonist(s) matter?

I just found this video today

This woman and her annoying attitude. I have seen some of her "work" deconstructing popular culture and give passive aggressive snarls at any entertainment that isnt 100% PC and gynocentric. Often she doesnt get the point of what she is analyzing (i.e finding rape themes in christmas songs, loving series and movies for their correct representation of women and then being disappointed when those shows or movies walk astray in later seasons and sequels, thinking ironic characters are suppose to be taken serious etc.)

I bet that is what will come from her game focus.

I do not approve of all the hate comments she has gotten (way to many angry people online), but she truly is a BH. She is an elite cold fish and nutcracker. Also, she is not that bright.

if the lead was a female rockstar would have to tread very carefully not to upset the PC crowd.

look at all the shit the tomb raider guys got for handling a female character the wrong way. one wrong word, in the wrong context and you get news stories of rockstar being misogynistic and shit they would just rather avoid.

im sure they would love to have a female lead but its just not worth the hassle.

in anycase im sure this will become the thing that will over shadow how great GTA5 looks and im sure the GB news story one the bombcast next week will focus on the lack of a female lead rather then what the game will actually be like.

@AndyAce83 said:

@Meowshi said:

You can't ask "why am I being silly" and use the word "manginas" in the same sentence. You just can't.

Yes, I can. I just did. Mangina is a fitting word for men who identify more with women and their rights and representation over their own sex and issues.said:

No, it's pretty blatantly stupid. If you have to resort to ad hominem attacks and name-calling to strengthen your argument, it's probably not a very good one.

Thank you. Very enlightened.

I don't get this flippant response. You were suggesting that because you don't personally care about the gender of your character, no one should.

The issue is that too many nauseating feminist and manginas believe that whining about things make a difference.

No, this is an issue you've imagined because you're being over-sensitive. Saying "it would have been cool if we could be a female this time" isn't nauseating feminism, by any logical stretch of the imagination.

Why? To me it just seems you have a xenophile perception. Its very common to people being exposed to too much leftwing BS. Many, many games have explored this issue. "Fish out of water" game stories are plentiful.

You really need to stop bringing up these irrelevant issues. This has nothing to do with feminism, leftwing politics, or any of this irrelevant nonsense you keep bringing up. This is just further proof that this has nothing to do with what Patrick actually said, and everything to do with you being ready to jump down the throat of anyone who innocuously brings up the word "female" in a video game discussion. There is absolutely nothing to be gained from this conversation, because you refuse to acknowledge that you're the one having the knee-jerk reaction right now. Not the people you're constantly calling "PC".

Playing from the perspective of a character you haven't played before is exciting. I'm not going to explain this concept. It's common fucking sense.

@AndyAce83 said:

@Meowshi said:

But it's absolutely true. The reactionary response to any topic regarding females in video games is silly, as is bringing up irrelevant nonsense like the Feminist Frequency. You guys need to grow up.

Yes, that shut me up. Especially the "need to grow up" part. Insightful.

I'm not trying to get you to shut up. I'm simply having a discussion with you. You do need to grow up, or at least try to stay on topic.

Yeah I totally want my GTA to be politically correct, just like the real world of crime

@Sooty said:

I still think Tommy Vercetti was the best character. Don't try and humanise someone when you're making a game where you are constantly murdering people and jacking their shit, write the character as such.

More games should just have main characters that are not trying to be good guys or trying to convince us they are.

This is so true. I remember finding it ridiculous when CJ acted all morally indignant about drug-dealers "ruining the neighborhood" when he spent the majority of the game murdering half the population of Los Santos. Rockstar has a really scatter-brained approach to writing protagonists.

@Meowshi said:

@Sooty said:

I still think Tommy Vercetti was the best character. Don't try and humanise someone when you're making a game where you are constantly murdering people and jacking their shit, write the character as such.

More games should just have main characters that are not trying to be good guys or trying to convince us they are.

This is so true. I remember finding it ridiculous when CJ acted all morally indignant about drug-dealers "ruining the neighborhood" when he spent the majority of the game murdering half the population of Los Santos. Rockstar has a really scatter-brained approach to writing protagonists.

That's not entirely true if you roleplay the characters I did not try to muder innocent pedestrians in Liberty City while playing as Nico so I did not get that feeling of contradiction between gameplay/story most people got. CJ is just dumb, after making all that money in business he had to go back to the hood because?.... something something keeping it real.

@AngelN7 said:

@Meowshi said:

@Sooty said:

I still think Tommy Vercetti was the best character. Don't try and humanise someone when you're making a game where you are constantly murdering people and jacking their shit, write the character as such.

More games should just have main characters that are not trying to be good guys or trying to convince us they are.

This is so true. I remember finding it ridiculous when CJ acted all morally indignant about drug-dealers "ruining the neighborhood" when he spent the majority of the game murdering half the population of Los Santos. Rockstar has a really scatter-brained approach to writing protagonists.

That's not entirely true if you roleplay the characters I did not try to muder innocent pedestrians in Liberty City while playing as Nico so I did not get that feeling of contradiction between gameplay/story most people got. CJ is just dumb, after making all that money in business he had to go back to the hood because?.... something something keeping it real.

Nico is a mass murderer. Regardless of the circumstances surrounding his decisions, he is a mass murderer.

@Meowshi said:

@AngelN7 said:

@Meowshi said:

@Sooty said:

I still think Tommy Vercetti was the best character. Don't try and humanise someone when you're making a game where you are constantly murdering people and jacking their shit, write the character as such.

More games should just have main characters that are not trying to be good guys or trying to convince us they are.

This is so true. I remember finding it ridiculous when CJ acted all morally indignant about drug-dealers "ruining the neighborhood" when he spent the majority of the game murdering half the population of Los Santos. Rockstar has a really scatter-brained approach to writing protagonists.

That's not entirely true if you roleplay the characters I did not try to muder innocent pedestrians in Liberty City while playing as Nico so I did not get that feeling of contradiction between gameplay/story most people got. CJ is just dumb, after making all that money in business he had to go back to the hood because?.... something something keeping it real.

Nico is a mass murderer. Regardless of the circumstances surrounding his decisions, he is a mass murderer.

He killed a lot of people during the war... he killed a lot of criminals in Liberty City as well but I didn't ever think he was a mass murderer that just wasn't the way I roleplay him.

@Meowshi said:

@AndyAce83 said:

@Meowshi said:

But it's absolutely true. The reactionary response to any topic regarding females in video games is silly, as is bringing up irrelevant nonsense like the Feminist Frequency. You guys need to grow up.

Yes, that shut me up. Especially the "need to grow up" part. Insightful.

I'm not trying to get you to shut up. I'm simply having a discussion with you. You do need to grow up, or at least try to stay on topic.

Who are you to say anyone should grow up? That is the question my irony obviously didnt convey. That is so patronizing. First, I am probably by age older than you (but that is a guess), secondly, to be against feminism pointless progressivism PC speech and leftwing dominians in definitions and discourse is not immature but important. I reserve the right to question why people want any character choice above others.

Is there a white male dominans in non optional characters? Yes. Is that a problem? No. Why isnt it a problem? Cuz if it was it would have been changed.

Game creation is not a part of nature and has an intelligent design based on marked. More white males play and therefor identify with white male protagonist than black women. I dont go to Japan and complain that the signs are not written in Norwegian. To complain that games are too male oriented or whatever, is much the same. To expect that the world should dance to preferences that is not wanted or needed by people who do not share the -isms.

There were a lot of black people in RE5, after a white dominating games before. At once racism was called out because the zombies where black. That is also the VERY VERY important point of why there are so few female and black characters... If they are portraid in anyway negative light (most characters need character flaw to be interesting) some crazy lefty will call racism or misogyny on that. I dont know why the San Andreas Black character was not called racist.

The thing this thread has evolved into makes me sick.

@valrog said:

The thing this thread has evolved into makes me sick.

@Hunter5024 said:

@Shaanyboi said:

Quantity =/= quality. Rockstar simply inputting "more" voiced dialogue, or hours of cutscenes doesn't mean anything if they're not doing anything good with it. Yeah, there is a LOT of shit videogame storytelling out there, but for all the fucking championing GTA gets everytime the release a fucking screenshot is made a big deal, I'd expect something far less... dumb.

Look at The Walking Dead, look at Spec Ops: The Line. Two games that manage to tell great stories intertwined well with the gameplay. When Walker in Spec Ops has to get in a firefight, both the scenario and the character are in-line with one another that I believe "okay, yeah, he'd probably start firing back. This makes sense." Hell, for all the shit ME3 got for its deus ex machina of an ending, atleast that series as a whole had some great characters, interesting questions, and good dialogue.

Do you know what GTA4 reminds me of? It reminds me of some idiot in high school who is into some really dumb shit, watches the news one night about Israel vs. Palestine, and then thinks if he brings it up in a conversation, it'll make him sound really socially aware and mature. Just because it strips away the stupid overthetop shit from previous games, and then goes "Man... things are tough for immigrants, huh?", that doesn't make it good. Because it contrasts all of its good intentions and... uhh.. depth, with shitty characters and missions that make no sense for the protagonist to get involved in.

And don't get me started on the shit-stain that was RDR's story. The gameplay was totally fine, but that story... No. Just no.

So just to be clear, because you dislike their story, you don't even think they're trying to make it good? I mean why would they devote so many resources to make all those cutscenes and stuff if they know it's going to come out like crap?

I think they think their story and characters are way more clever than they usually are.

@NeVeRMoRe666 said:

@Shaanyboi said:

And all three will be unlikable cunts who have no consistency between their character motivations and their actions.

Because, y'know, Rockstar are such brilliant writers....

I quite liked Red Dead Redemption...

I really didn't... I thought the core gameplay mechanics were generally solid, the world was gorgeous, but I hated 95% of all those characters, John Marsden included. And the pacing was SO fucked, even before the infamous Mexico section...

@valrog: Threads like this are great for finding out who to ignore in the future.

@MarkWahlberg said:

My guess is they're basically addressing the 'Niko Bellic is an ok guy who occasionally goes on bloody rampages' dissonance thing by giving you one character who's more or less psychotic, and who can go on killing sprees without 'breaking character', and allowing the others to fill the more empathetic (sympathetic?) roles in the story.

That's actually exactly what they're doing (I actually read the article in GI).

That image has "co-op" written all over it.

@project343 said:

@MiniPato: So then this isn't an issue of writing, but rather, of gameplay system that coincide with the writing.

Pretty much. But when I think about Red Dead Redemption and GTAIV, I really don't get disturbed by how many people Niko and Marston kill in their story missions. Niko is pretty much on a quest for revenge and is willing to do whatever it takes to get his justice. Marston is being forced by government G-men to hunt down his old companions because his family is pretty much being held hostage and has to do what they say. Plus it's the wild fucking west. You have to kill or be killed. Very little room for softies and sympathy in that world. And the people they are killing in the story missions aren't exactly saints. Now apparently people aren't weirded out by the type of people they kill in the game, but the amount of people. Perhaps enough to call them homicidal maniacs. Hell, I've even seen the same complaint lobbied at Uncharted 2. But the answer is simple, it's a videogame, you're going to need to be shooting people. A lot. Or else it gets boring and easy. So just suspend your disbelief that you're taking down an army (whether it be thugs, mafia men, banditos, or mercenaries) by yourself for the sake of enjoyment of gameplay rather than story.

I know it isn't so simple, but I'd like to think of this as GTA taking a cue from the Yakuza series. Haha.

@afrofools: That trailer is from almost exactly a year ago. I wouldn't be surprised if the main characters had gone through a few redesigns since then.

We should be getting a new trailer next week though, that I imagine will prominently feature Michael, Trevor, and Franklin as they've been shown in this article.

@GreggD said:

@MarkWahlberg said:

My guess is they're basically addressing the 'Niko Bellic is an ok guy who occasionally goes on bloody rampages' dissonance thing by giving you one character who's more or less psychotic, and who can go on killing sprees without 'breaking character', and allowing the others to fill the more empathetic (sympathetic?) roles in the story.

That's actually exactly what they're doing (I actually read the article in GI).

Nice. I mean, when you think about it that's the one complaint they've consistently had through their past several games, so it makes sense they'd try to address it.

@Baillie said:

Oh my god, it's totally Claude, CJ and Tommy!

Nah.

I'm not gonna act surprised if you're right.

@GNitro said:

@cocowawa said:

how about a woman main character?!

But then who would play the hookers and girlfriend characters... gosh... lol

lmao

@Shaanyboi said:

@Hunter5024 said:

@Shaanyboi said:

Quantity =/= quality. Rockstar simply inputting "more" voiced dialogue, or hours of cutscenes doesn't mean anything if they're not doing anything good with it. Yeah, there is a LOT of shit videogame storytelling out there, but for all the fucking championing GTA gets everytime the release a fucking screenshot is made a big deal, I'd expect something far less... dumb.

Look at The Walking Dead, look at Spec Ops: The Line. Two games that manage to tell great stories intertwined well with the gameplay. When Walker in Spec Ops has to get in a firefight, both the scenario and the character are in-line with one another that I believe "okay, yeah, he'd probably start firing back. This makes sense." Hell, for all the shit ME3 got for its deus ex machina of an ending, atleast that series as a whole had some great characters, interesting questions, and good dialogue.

Do you know what GTA4 reminds me of? It reminds me of some idiot in high school who is into some really dumb shit, watches the news one night about Israel vs. Palestine, and then thinks if he brings it up in a conversation, it'll make him sound really socially aware and mature. Just because it strips away the stupid overthetop shit from previous games, and then goes "Man... things are tough for immigrants, huh?", that doesn't make it good. Because it contrasts all of its good intentions and... uhh.. depth, with shitty characters and missions that make no sense for the protagonist to get involved in.

And don't get me started on the shit-stain that was RDR's story. The gameplay was totally fine, but that story... No. Just no.

So just to be clear, because you dislike their story, you don't even think they're trying to make it good? I mean why would they devote so many resources to make all those cutscenes and stuff if they know it's going to come out like crap?

I think they think their story and characters are way more clever than they usually are.

I don't think this is true at all, but I can see how you would think that. I think they're just going for a level of realism in GTA IV and RDR that gives them an overly serious tone. However, they seem to be fully aware of this and I think the tone of GTA5 will be quite, quite different to IV. That will probably depend on what character you play.

Anyway, I'm impressed with mostly everything I read in the GI story apart from two things: A) not being able to change the physical appearance of your main character and B) not being able to purchase property. These aren't deal-breakers, just features I enjoyed from Vice City and San Andreas I hoped one day would make a return.

Will there be hookers?

@MarkWahlberg said:

@GreggD said:

@MarkWahlberg said:

My guess is they're basically addressing the 'Niko Bellic is an ok guy who occasionally goes on bloody rampages' dissonance thing by giving you one character who's more or less psychotic, and who can go on killing sprees without 'breaking character', and allowing the others to fill the more empathetic (sympathetic?) roles in the story.

That's actually exactly what they're doing (I actually read the article in GI).

Nice. I mean, when you think about it that's the one complaint they've consistently had through their past several games, so it makes sense they'd try to address it.

Absolutely. In fact, if you go back to the trailer they released, there's a dude in a firebird outside a liquor store propositioning hookers. That one's obviously Trevor.

I think it's a missed opportunity not to have a playable female character, but they're less than a year from release. It's a bit too late to suggest them that for this game. GTA VI , in 5 years,might introduce one.

I'm way more disappointed this isn't getting a PC release at launch, the wait will suck ass, I might have to concede for one of the console versions.

@Enigma_2099 said:

@Baillie said:

Oh my god, it's totally Claude, CJ and Tommy!

Nah.

I'm not gonna act surprised if you're right.

It's not. It's Trevor, Franklin, and Michael. Dan Houser says in the article that none of the characters from GTA 3/VC/SA will never appear in the GTA IV/V line of games. He considers the "high definition" games as being in a separate timeline, but he doesn't rule out there being a game at some point that does go back to the GTA III universe.

It's not so much that he considers them a separate timeline, he considers the games on the PS3/Xbox360 to be an entirely different game universe to the PS2 games. 

@VoshiNova: Donald Love? Speculation is fun

"The Grand Theft Auto series is considered by Rockstar Games to be split into separate fictional universe, named after the primary level of graphics capability used in each era. The original Grand Theft Auto, its expansions and its sequel are considered the "2D universe". Grand Theft Auto III and its prequels are considered the "3D universe". Grand Theft Auto IV, its expansions and Grand Theft Auto V are considered the "High-definition universe". Each universe is considered separate, with only brands and background characters shared between them."

That's what Wikipedia says. That's not something I knew. I think that's unfortunate, 'cause I imagine that means they're not bringing back the characters we knew from past games.

Two of the protagonists are both middle-aged criminals. One is a drug-addled psychotic loose-cannon who relishes in violence and the other is a "retired" heist-man with problems relating to his teenage daughter and an estranged wife. Where have I seen this before......?

Yes, this comparison is totally unfair. I'm just saying......Rockstar might actually do these kind of characters right.

@valrog said:

The thing this community has evolved into makes me sick.

Fixed

I love what I read about the switch mechanic. It will take some strong AI improvements though to make it all compelling. The AI for driving if I decide to be the shooter for example better be improved. But the idea that if I need to shoot in a chase sequence I can hop into a passenger instead of struggle to shoot while driving is really exciting. There is a ton of potential.

Dude on the right looks like Jeff Cannata.

@jerseyscum: Yeah, it's a bit odd. I'm sure that GTA V will be worlds better than Kane & Lynch, but there are really weird parallels in some of the stuff shown thus far:

@Chaser324 said:

@jerseyscum: Yeah, it's a bit odd. I'm sure that GTA V will be worlds better than Kane & Lynch, but there are really weird parallels in some of the stuff shown thus far:

Wow.....

Good catch.

@jerseyscum said:

Two of the protagonists are both middle-aged criminals. One is a drug-addled psychotic loose-cannon who relishes in violence and the other is a "retired" heist-man with problems relating to his teenage daughter and an estranged wife. Where have I seen this before......?

Yes, this comparison is totally unfair. I'm just saying......Rockstar might actually do these kind of characters right.

Come on now. The actual characters of Kane and Lynch were fine (great voice performances from both at the very least), it's the gameplay surrounding them that was lackluster.

not to be a sexist but how would a gta game work with a female? After all they are nothing more then a old to new crime flicks. And for you ladies and gentlemen the female would not be portrayed well. I have learned this much from video games.

But I do want for once have a strong female character but not in the sense of the word as you people would see it, then I  mean she would need to be appealing and sexually attractive facially. Or you could put it, good looking kinda cute and hot at the same time but is not afraid to kill  you(after all its video games). So it would be like a femme fatale like in noir films. 

I am maybe just thinking out loud but I am kinda bored of the whole talk about this women being treated like sex objects and stuff in video games. 

But this just me, if I want a female character done right then just look at SH3 or SH2. The female in the original  not hd collections because they where done bad. they are at-least really well made and have a certain character you don't forget.  

@Yummylee said:

@jerseyscum said:

Two of the protagonists are both middle-aged criminals. One is a drug-addled psychotic loose-cannon who relishes in violence and the other is a "retired" heist-man with problems relating to his teenage daughter and an estranged wife. Where have I seen this before......?

Yes, this comparison is totally unfair. I'm just saying......Rockstar might actually do these kind of characters right.

Come on now. The actual characters of Kane and Lynch were fine (great voice performances from both at the very least), it's the gameplay surrounding them that was lackluster.

Hey Kane, I'm sorry I totally killed all those hostages duder. I forgot to get a refill on my prescription that if just happen to stop taking I get all gun happy and start murdering people when it's convenient for the plot.

Hey Kane. I'm sorry I totally murdered that woman we were supposed to ransom off in a totally not-creepy or rapey way. It's just that the writers needed to justify this fucked exercise of a game and continue the rest of the plot.

And Kane still works with this guy on a second game! A walking fuck-up that brings nothing but pain and misery in his life and he just signs right back up for another mediocre romp.

Do not get me started on the airport level in Kane and Lynch 2.