Just saw credits--and the epilogue--in Hades [Spoilers]

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clagnaught

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#1  Edited By clagnaught

Just to be clear before I say anything spoiler-y, I'm talking about the ending; not just what happens after one successful escape attempt. There's a thread here about successful escape attempts for those interested.

Now, with that out of the way...

Just saw the credits after 10 or so successful escape attempts (after 40 escape attempts total and 40 hours of play time). Overall thought Supergiant did a great job with the story in this game. Specifically with the main plot and the ending, I thought it was really smart to have Zag not able to stay above the surface, forcing him to escape multiple times to get more information from Hades and Persephone. I think that persistence was a thing that made me keep coming back to it (aside from it just being so damn fun to play). If instead, you just escaped once and that was it, I'm not sure if I would have stuck with the game like I have so far.

Plenty of people have already talked about how this game does a good job with adding story to a roguelike, but I'm glad to see it stick the landing like that. I think that flashback early on about how Persephone left the Underworld is a good driver for you to reach the surface. Then learning more about their backstory and ultimately everybody getting back together is a nice payoff.

That said, I'm not sure--and wouldn't be surprised--if there is one other major thing I haven't seen yet, whether that's an ultimate final boss or a second ending. Leading up to the ending, I was half expecting the game to...

...end with Demeter being the final boss. Between how she is the most important of the Olympians in the game, the background information with her freezing the surface, and people worrying about what would happen if the gods found out what was going on, I pictured Demeter showing up to take Persephone back. (Not that I'm asking if anybody knows. That was my theory / my guess if the game has something else up its sleeve)

All in all, I think this game is really great. It's easily one of my favorite games so far this year.

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Gyratyne

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I think the main quest ending is satisfying and much happier than I was expecting. The conceit for continuing to escape is fairly clever and there is plenty more story after credits. I like seeing a more open and honest side of Hades. The epilogue will probably address the lingering threat, maybe in a more tragic or melancholic tone to match previous games.

"In the Blood" might be the only thing in Hades that I'm not completely positive on. I found it a bit underwhelming for the credits song. Perhaps it's unfair to compare it to "Setting Sail, Coming Home", "Paper Boats", and "Bound Together", but I can't help but feel a little disappointed. I just noticed that the OST was updated, so I'll listen to it more and see if my opinion changes with time.

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That said, I'm not sure--and wouldn't be surprised--if there is one other major thing I haven't seen yet, whether that's an ultimate final boss or a second ending. Leading up to the ending, I was half expecting the game to...

I know from the steam achievements that there is an epilogue after the credits so there's that at least. Otherwise, in terms of things that you may not have seen yet -- not that it pushes the plot along, it's frivolous -- but have you fought the optional boss yet?

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clagnaught

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@clagnaught said:
That said, I'm not sure--and wouldn't be surprised--if there is one other major thing I haven't seen yet, whether that's an ultimate final boss or a second ending. Leading up to the ending, I was half expecting the game to...

I know from the steam achievements that there is an epilogue after the credits so there's that at least. Otherwise, in terms of things that you may not have seen yet -- not that it pushes the plot along, it's frivolous -- but have you fought the optional boss yet?

I did fight Charon and got the membership card on one run.

Not sure if there's a way to trigger that to be honest. I only saw the option to do that twice. My big reference for roguelike stuff is The Binding of Isaac, which you are sort of able to lean towards a direction (Cathedral or Sheol as an example). Not sure if it's random or if there's similar stuff like that you can do in Hades.

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clagnaught

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@gyratyne said:

"In the Blood" might be the only thing in Hades that I'm not completely positive on. I found it a bit underwhelming for the credits song. Perhaps it's unfair to compare it to "Setting Sail, Coming Home", "Paper Boats", and "Bound Together", but I can't help but feel a little disappointed. I just noticed that the OST was updated, so I'll listen to it more and see if my opinion changes with time.

I'm kind of with you. The only other Supergiant game I finished was Transistor (I've been meaning to get back to Pyre on of these days), and the way Paper Boats lands is a lot stronger than In the Blood. I kind of feel bad for saying that, especially with how most of the music in the game is pretty great.

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Gyratyne

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@clagnaught: My thoughts exactly. "In the Blood" is a good song, but I really love most of the others more. "Good Riddance" to me feels like a more appropriate ending theme. An arrangement of that for the epilogue would hit with me a lot better I think. Haven't gotten there yet, so I may get my wish.

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Is the 10 finish thing the true ending? I ran into Chaos early on and assumed there'd be some hidden final boss with them.

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#8  Edited By Mezmero

I thought it was great and wonderfully written. I liked the dialogue exchanges on previous clears leading up to it a whole lot. Parts I'd call out specifically:

When Persephone requests Zagreus to stop coming, and that sad goodbye just as he dies. Then when you make it to the end after that and you hear the joy in her voice expressing that she secretly hoped he wouldn't listen.

When Hades steps aside the final time. Up to that point he has pulled every excuse out of his ass to try and stop Zag's pursuit so the sheer resignation behind that act felt very meaningful.

The final boat ride through the layers was delightful. Into the Blood while a good song doesn't quite feel as grand as their previous titles though it's a high bar to be fair.

I got to the epilogue at the start of the week so I feel like you guys are twisting my arm with the speculation. Without giving away anything specific, it's a lot more understated than you might think, in a way that I love personally but I can't speak to how you might react.

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@mezmero: That still sounds promising. Looking forward to it. I started a Hell Mode save to see if the early game changed, but switched back to my previous one to get to credits. Gonna stick with that until I get all the achievements.

@csl316: Yes, it's 10 clears to complete the main quest in the story and see credits. Not sure if there's a secret final boss, but you do unlock an option to face a stronger version of Hades. If you've gotten use to fighting him, it definitely cranks up the challenge.

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@gyratyne said:

"In the Blood" might be the only thing in Hades that I'm not completely positive on. I found it a bit underwhelming for the credits song. Perhaps it's unfair to compare it to "Setting Sail, Coming Home", "Paper Boats", and "Bound Together", but I can't help but feel a little disappointed. I just noticed that the OST was updated, so I'll listen to it more and see if my opinion changes with time.

Yeah, I don't want to be too mean or anything, but this feels like when a musician makes the wrong song the lead single on their album. "In the Blood" is fine and everything, but I was way more moved when I randomly came back to the House of Hades one time and Orpheus was just giving 110% to "The Lament of Orpheus." Also it's really jarring and weird that I saw credits like 10 hours before reuniting Orpheus and Eurydice, so I'm like "Why is this duet happening?"

This probably isn't "In the Blood"'s fault. The thing I'm not completely positive on is maybe the "main" narrative in general. Like, the writing as a whole is exceptionally strong, but in the way that it is a very strong series of Persona Social Links/Fire Emblem support conversations. Hades' conversational writing is on par with Persona, and better than most Fire Emblems from the past decade. But the overall narrative of what Zagreus is trying to discover/achieve and then when he does it, was kinda underwhelming for me. Maybe because everyone is immortal and Zag's success seems inevitable. It's a fun cast of characters, but Zag's main story was just OK for me.

By comparison, "Setting Sail, Coming Home" is some incredible catharsis as you reach the climax of Bastion. And "Paper Boats" is a real capper on the whole tragic course of the Transistor story. I never finished Pyre, been meaning to get back to it. Overall, the tone of Hades is just a lot lighter and breezier so I don't think I was emotionally invested enough in the story to be wowed by the credits.

It's really rewarding on a gameplay personal achievement level the first time you beat Hades, but I don't think the story was as much a motivating factor compared to prior Supergiant games.

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@mezmero: I got to the epilogue.

The reconciliation with Olympus is a far brighter outcome than I expected. Like the primary ending, the resolution seems to go over with very little tension. Conversations hint that everyone is playing along with Persephone's story because ultimately they want to be reunited as a family. It's a hopeful underlining message that I can appreciate. Relationships take effort and willing participation.

I see a common theme of struggling for connection after separation or isolation throughout Hades. It spins Greek tragedies into optimistic stories. Sometimes, it's just nice to have a happy ending. It's not particularly complex or nuanced, but I think it was handled well considering that the focus is on the roguelike combat. The writing is a bonus motivator and I think I'll keep playing past the epilogue to follow up on a few loose ends.

Hades continues to be a rewarding experience for me. I will be enjoying it for quite some time.

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Not sure if it's random or if there's similar stuff like that you can do in Hades.

Sadly the special boss fight (putting aside the rat in the fourth biome) is basically pure RNG. You have to just constantly visit the shop during a run and hope the trigger shows up. Kinda blows.

@csl316 said:

Is the 10 finish thing the true ending?

Yes and no. It's the first time you see credits, but the fated list will then task you with fulfilling Persephone's plan and then you get what can probably be called the true ending.

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@gyratyne: Nice. I got all the Steam achievements weeks ago and I still find myself doing clears in Hades daily. The only things I have left to unlock are House cosmetics, codex entries for rare fish and companions, and the 32 heat statue. And yet I feel like I'm STILL running into new dialogue on occasion.

I agree with all your points, it's admirable that they made such an optimistic message out of such inherently tragic source material. Another thing I love is how naturally the narrative dovetails into the proper Greek myth. It's not as explicit in the game but Persephone agrees to stay in the Underworld once a year through the winter season. And thus the canonical explanation for the cold of winter is Demeter lamenting her daughter's absence once a year, which in and of itself becomes a brilliant detail within the game's mechanics.

If I had a nitpick is that I wish there could have been a grander final portrait to present instead of just Hades and Zeus hardily shaking hands. I'm certain Jen Zee has the talent for a more lavish piece with the family together at the banquet, but I can't complain because all of her art work in the game is positively breathtaking.

Otherwise I have no complaints about how the ending plays out as it stands. I could definitely see an alternate path where they could have made a "true" final boss who was Demeter and/or Chaos but I keep telling myself over and over again that I paid $25 for this game new, and it has far over-delivered on its value!

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The following is almost entirely spoilers but as someone who has completed 40+ runs out of 100+ I've got some insight into what is still available to you after credits

Persephone relationship will eventually unlock a Prophecy to form "Bonds" with several Olympian Gods in order to enact her "plan to fix things". I am still working on this stage of the plan. To form a bond you must max out their Affinity meter - which means 6 servings of Nectar, doing them a "favor" then giving them Ambrosia afterwards. The favor is not always explained. For Example: Poseidon will not "unlock" the final heart unless you see him in a run with all three of the following conditions: Gave him 6 nectar hearts previously, caught at least 18 fish lifetime, have caught at least one fish already on this run. Once you have completed enough Bonds to please Persephone she will give you a final quest.

Charon fights can ONLY occur in mid-floor meetups with Charon. He will NEVER offer the battle in the room before a boss fight. If you want to fight him take Charon shops early and often. There is a Hermes favor that wants to see you beat him twice in a row.

Dusa Bond/Romance still has some bugs if you have been playing since early access. I somehow got a sequence break with her that is preventing me from Dating other characters. I would suggest you avoid the Dusa romance for now if you have early access data in your save.

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@mezmero: There's plenty of things for completionist to work towards. I'm not aiming to purchase all the house cosmetics, but it's nice to have something to use resources on. When V1.0 released, I was refunded a lot of darkness from the mirror and left with nothing to use it on. It's very minor, but I was delighted when the resource director became available.

I would like to complete the codex, but I've only seen a fishing point in Chaos' chamber once. I wonder if the Huge Catch boon is a prerequisite. I'd also like to finish the Fates' prophecy, but have been having bad luck getting Hermes' Bad News boon and I dislike using Stygian Soul.

After a few more runs, I think I will return to my Hell Mode save. I enjoy the strength progression in the beginning.

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#16  Edited By whylessness

@gyratyne said:

I would like to complete the codex, but I've only seen a fishing point in Chaos' chamber once. I wonder if the Huge Catch boon is a prerequisite.

it's not. and if you get lucky you can purchase a skeletal lure from a well of charon before going through a chaos gate.

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clagnaught

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And I have since seen the epilogue!

Overall, really, really love this game. I figured the ending was going to be understated. Also knew that they were not going to animate 3D models for all of the gods for the sake of the party. I think I have around 79 runs and about 85 hours into the game to reach that point.

Making a game that is still so much fun to play and able to dish out new pieces of story after so many runs is just mind boggling. The real crux of the story was the original ending, but I like that they had some extra closure with the epilogue. The game would have been fine if they didn't address any of those loose threads, but it's a nice thing to have.

I have been spending too much time playing Hades and I'm going to take a break from it for a while, so haven't seen how much the epilogue impacts interacting with people at the House or with the gods of Olympus. I've basically done everything besides grinding for more heat and seeing the pact version of Hades, but I'm good for now.

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@whylessness: Thanks. That's a good tip. I made a habit of saving obols for the final shop, so I haven't been getting lures. But those resources will be more valuable early on, so spawning fishing points will be worth it.

@clagnaught: When you feel the urge to return, I recommend taking on Extreme Measures Hades. It's a tough challenge without a completely stacked build, but taking him down at the top of his game is exhilarating. I haven't done it enough, so I don't have the new attack patterns down yet. My victories have been on the razor's edge each time.

As mentioned above, I also feel the epilogue picture being a simple Hades and Zeus handshake is underwhelming. The family portrait was a better payoff to the first ending, even if Zag looks like a goof in it. A few additional scenes with the other gods at the party would've gone a long way to celebrate the cooperation with the pantheon that helped to achieve your success. Also, Zeus is an ass. As useful as some of his boons are, my personal kudos go more to Athena, Artemis, and Dionysus. I would've loved to see them meet Zagreus.

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