Remakes of old maps have begun. The game isn't even out yet and the most played map in Halo 3 has already been remade. What other maps do you want remade? What map you care so much that you'll actually do the remake?
Halo: Reach
Game » consists of 13 releases. Released Sep 14, 2010
A prequel to Halo: Combat Evolved, chronicling one of the most cataclysmic events of the Halo Universe through the eyes of a squad of Spartan super-soldiers known as Noble Team. It is also the last game in the series developed by Bungie.
Gaurdian Remake
Sweet. I'm starting to get hyped at Reach. They really did improve everything from the beta. Playing it at PAX was great.
I really want a remake of The Pit.
Remaking any of the Halo 3 maps seems a sort of dicey decision, to me, from a fan standpoint. But, as Jeff said, Bungie is trying to ensure this is the definitive Halo game that people will be playing as long as Halo is relevant, so this decision makes a lot of sense.
I'm sure each rebooted map is going to get this sort of reaction, since most of the fan favorites have already seen their own personal resurrections in previous Halo installments, though I wouldn't be at all shocked to see a formal Blood Gulch revival somewhere along the line.
The vid starts out with my favorite Halo song so i automatically love this vid.
Peril from the Halo 2 OST.
I suddenly got really excited for it. I even went out today and pre-order it even when I told myself I wasn't getting it when it comes out.
Meh, a straight Guardian remake isn't something I'm interested in playing (though I would be interested to see how the map flows if the two short lifts that connect bottom green to Camo and bottom blue to Snipe were replaced by walkways that would allow players to travel in both directions). Actually, none of the Halo 3 maps are worth remaking IMO. The best map in the game, The Pit, is decidedly mediocre compared to the best of the first two games. I'd rather play creatively designed original maps than remakes of maps that weren't great to begin with.
@Fosssil said:
" Meh, a straight Guardian remake isn't something I'm interested in playing (though I would be interested to see how the map flows if the two short lifts that connect bottom green to Camo and bottom blue to Snipe were replaced by walkways that would allow players to travel in both directions). Actually, none of the Halo 3 maps are worth remaking IMO. The best map in the game, The Pit, is decidedly mediocre compared to the best of the first two games. I'd rather play creatively designed original maps than remakes of maps that weren't great to begin with. "pretty much this, although I like Narrows better. I want original shit but barring that I want maps like Prisoner and Hang em high from CE. The problem is that every game plays slightly differently, so maps don't always necessarily translate well.
Also, I don't think Prisoner would work well in Reach. To be honest, it almost didn't work in Halo 1. While I like the potential that Reach has to be a skillful game, it certainly isn't fast enough in either movement speed or kill times under default settings to benefit from the vertical geometry of Prisoner. The team who gains top control would have a vice grip on the entire map given the relatively slow kill speed of the DMR (see also: Sword Base), and most Armor Abilities, especially Jetpack, would destroy the traditional flow of the map. Hang 'Em High could work well, though. Unlike Priz, which really only had Camo and Rockets to encourage players to abandon top control, Hang 'Em had a bunch of different items to control (2 Camos, Snipe, Rockets, OS, PR, Shotgun) as well as a much less dominating power position. I still don't think Armor Abilities would improve the way the map plays, but things like Jetpack and Sprint certainly wouldn't be as game breaking on HeH as they would be on Prisoner.
Personally, I think the two best Halo 1 maps to remake for Reach would be Wizard and Rat Race.
That's exactly my point. I feel like they spent an hour or so making Sanctuary, etc., then saying that the game ships with more maps than H3 when really it's like 5 less or something." @DystopiaX: After using Forge 2.0 for myself and creating some quick and basic maps, I can say without equivocation that talented Forgers will be able to create a flawless remake of Lockout within the first week of the game's release. Bungie really did a good job improving Forge; it's not perfect, but it is definitely good enough to accurately remake all but the most complicated maps from previous Halo games. Also, I don't think Prisoner would work well in Reach. To be honest, it almost didn't work in Halo 1. While I like the potential that Reach has to be a skillful game, it certainly isn't fast enough in either movement speed or kill times under default settings to benefit from the vertical geometry of Prisoner. The team who gains top control would have a vice grip on the entire map given the relatively slow kill speed of the DMR (see also: Sword Base), and most Armor Abilities, especially Jetpack, would destroy the traditional flow of the map. Hang 'Em High could work well, though. Unlike Priz, which really only had Camo and Rockets to encourage players to abandon top control, Hang 'Em had a bunch of different items to control (2 Camos, Snipe, Rockets, OS, PR, Shotgun) as well as a much less dominating power position. I still don't think Armor Abilities would improve the way the map plays, but things like Jetpack and Sprint certainly wouldn't be as game breaking on HeH as they would be on Prisoner. Personally, I think the two best Halo 1 maps to remake for Reach would be Wizard and Rat Race. "
Also, default settings don't really matter because you could make it work with run speed, weapon damage, etc. You could also limit AA's to sprint, or hopefully none at all.
And I missed me some Wizard in H3.
Also, for what it's worth, I think the Reach maps are definitely a step above Halo 3's maps in terms of design. Except for Sword Base, which I despise for its linearity and lack of flanking routes, the maps are great. Boardwalk is everything that Narrows should have been, and Countdown is like Construct but with more routes to the top. I'm sure you remember Powerhouse and Boneyard from the beta; they're both pretty solid. Zealot is fantastic if restricted to the bottom two levels, though I can't say I'm too fond of the zero-G space tier. Reflection is an improvement on Ivory Tower thanks to some subtle yet positive geometry changes. Can't comment on Spire, as I haven't played it in a Big Team/Invasion setting. So while there are only 8 non-Forge maps on the disc, I'll take 8 (well, 7 if we're not counting Sword Base) well-designed, flexible, replayable maps and one incredibly versatile canvas over 11 middling to terrible maps that include such travesties of game design as Epitaph and Snowbound.
Re: weapon damage. It is impossible to make the DMR even a 4 shot kill without breaking several key weapons, including Rockets and Sniper. Sadly, I don't think a Prisoner remake could work in Reach the way it did in H1 no matter the settings. 120% Speed is pretty great though -- snappy strafing with no ice skating. Feels just like Halo 2's movement speed, and it's the default setting for Slayer Pro so we'll probably see a lot of it in Arena playlists.
I too missed Wizard/Warlock in Halo 3. Thankfully, it's easy to recreate in Forge World and works even better than it ever could have in H3 because the DMR is so much more of a cross-map threat than the woeful H3 BR. Base to base shooting is actually possible on the map in Reach and Bungie has fixed the teleporters since Halo 3, so it's just as frantic and fast-paced as it was in Halo 2.
How'd you get the game early? And I could only comment on what I've seen, since i haven't played since the beta. Zealot does look awesome; I expect they'll do a Snowbound/boundless thing where they'll just make a version without the zero-G level." @DystopiaX: Yeah, the Sanctuary remake could use some cleaning up. It's very easy to get on top of the Sniper hut in either base; just two quick jumps and you're on top of the map. That can be fixed easily with a soft or hard killzone, though. The other Forge World maps are a bit hit or miss. Hemorrhage (Blood Gulch) and Pinnacle (Ascension) are both perfect remakes; definitely worthy of being listed as official maps. Paradiso and The Cage are alright, but they definitely feel like Forge maps. The good news is, though, that those maps in no way represent the best of what Forge World or Forge 2.0 are capable of producing. I never built anything noteworthy with Forge in Halo 3 (not even an Infection map or a race track), but I was able to crank out a pretty respectable Warlock remake in less than 2 hours in Forge World. Also, for what it's worth, I think the Reach maps are definitely a step above Halo 3's maps in terms of design. Except for Sword Base, which I despise for its linearity and lack of flanking routes, the maps are great. Boardwalk is everything that Narrows should have been, and Countdown is like Construct but with more routes to the top. I'm sure you remember Powerhouse and Boneyard from the beta; they're both pretty solid. Zealot is fantastic if restricted to the bottom two levels, though I can't say I'm too fond of the zero-G space tier. Reflection is an improvement on Ivory Tower thanks to some subtle yet positive geometry changes. Can't comment on Spire, as I haven't played it in a Big Team/Invasion setting. So while there are only 8 non-Forge maps on the disc, I'll take 8 (well, 7 if we're not counting Sword Base) well-designed, flexible, replayable maps and one incredibly versatile canvas over 11 middling to terrible maps that include such travesties of game design as Epitaph and Snowbound. Re: weapon damage. It is impossible to make the DMR even a 4 shot kill without breaking several key weapons, including Rockets and Sniper. Sadly, I don't think a Prisoner remake could work in Reach the way it did in H1 no matter the settings. 120% Speed is pretty great though -- snappy strafing with no ice skating. Feels just like Halo 2's movement speed, and it's the default setting for Slayer Pro so we'll probably see a lot of it in Arena playlists. I too missed Wizard/Warlock in Halo 3. Thankfully, it's easy to recreate in Forge World and works even better than it ever could have in H3 because the DMR is so much more of a cross-map threat than the woeful H3 BR. Base to base shooting is actually possible on the map in Reach and Bungie has fixed the teleporters since Halo 3, so it's just as frantic and fast-paced as it was in Halo 2. "
My point was less the quality than their use of Forge World just seems lazy- when I look at home beautiful a map like Reflection is, something like Pinnacle or The Cage just don't compare- it just looks cheap/they didn't really spend time on it. I'd rather they took those 5 maps, put the time and effort into making something really unique, rather than out in the open and bland. It's not a gameplay thing; it's more an art style thing.
Also, I hope Jeff is right and all the DLC just releases remakes of the awesome Halo maps from previous games. I want them to do something like Heretic/Midship for H3- no "reimaginings", no redoing of the art style, just those maps for Reach, I guess MW2 style.
I definitely understand your point about the maps seemingly being created in a hurried and unpolished manner, but on the other hand without these slightly less impressive remakes we wouldn't have nearly the same amount of good building blocks to use in Forge World. Both of the towers from Ascension, the middle ring and bases of Sanctuary, and the two bases from Blood Gulch are all now place-able Forge items that likely wouldn't otherwise exist had they been given the full remake treatment. So while I agree with the sentiment that the maps look uninspired from an aesthetic standpoint, the very fact that they were created entirely in Forge and still look as good as they do seems like an acceptable trade-off to me.
I do agree that a DLC pack of straight Midship/Heretic-style remakes would be more than welcome, though. Of the small maps from previous games, Battle/Beaver Creek seems like the hardest for Forgers to remake because of the underground tunnels, so I'd like to see Bungie handle that one. Other than that, most every small to medium sized map could be easily recreated in Forge, so I'd like to see the return of two of my favorite Big Team maps from Halo 2: Headlong and Containment.
" @xyzygy said:OMG I totally remember Boarding Action! It's with the two ships and they're facing each other, man that map was sweet! Thanks for reminding me." I want Standoff to be in it. I freaking love that map. And Blood Gulch of course, but I thought that was actually coming. PS Is that what a modded 360 looks like on the dashboard? "Dude... I want a proper Boarding Action remake. "
" @DystopiaX: True there are some maps in previous games that are just better than any map that came after. Like Beaver Creek, Midship, Lockout, Warlock. These maps are the best for their respective gametypes, I'd personally play them rather than original maps that haven't been tested very well. But whatever Forge World seems so robust that pretty much remakes of all maps from previous games and other games like COD4 and CS will be made. "Pretty sure they can't steal maps from other games, lol.
Don't get me wrong, I want original stuff. I also want them to not make all their maps on that ugly ass forge world palate.
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