So Hotline Miami 2 has just been confirmed to have been refused classification in Australia, because of a heavily implied rape scene.

http://www.kotaku.com.au/2015/01/hotline-miami-2-refused-classification-because-of-an-implicit-rape-scene/

Being Australian, this makes me slightly mad, especially since I was looking forward to playing the game. HOWEVER, I can kind of sort of understand where the board is coming from with this one, for once. This isn't exactly on the same level as a dildo bat or South Park's removed scenes. Doesn't make it any less annoying though.

Considering the fact that only one scene is cited as the offending cause, here's hoping that we get an edited version of the game where there is a fade to black, with an otherwise unaltered game. (Edit: Ignore that, I missed a line. Apparently the scene in question is not "an exhaustive list of the content that caused Hotline Miami 2 to be refused classification.")

Either that, or I buy the code off of somewhere else. If a game isn't on the Steam storefront, and I purchase a code from an international seller, can Steam legally block me from redeeming it? This is assuming that the code itself is not region locked.

I'm pretty sure redeeming a code on steam won't work unless you use a VPN or something. I remember looking into the same thing for Saints Row IV

It's a bummer but I can see the reasoning too. Hotline Miami already walks a very fine line and I don't know if I'm uncomfortable with that. Hopefully that just gets edited out. The story in the original is already so weirdly paced that I don't think cutting that out will detract from it at all.

The report also states that this isn’t an exhaustive list of the content that caused Hotline Miami 2 to be refused classification.

I hope there's an edited version with the scene taken out so I could play it but if there are other factors that caused the RC then I think it's unlikely it'll get released locally. Steam should still be able to sell the game.

GoG or Humble should work fine for acquiring an unedited version. Otherwise, knowing the creators, I'm almost certain they would endorse piracy if there ended up being no other way to acquire the game legally.

In other shocking news, the sky is blue.

Maybe you sexy Aussies can enlighten me. Is there ever any pushback to the government censorship of games? Like from prominent Australian games writers or media figures potentially? I'm just generally wondering if these things get banned and everyone's just sort of bummed out but accept it, or are there groups that are actively trying to change things.

I don't know if apathy is the right term for it, but the general response to these sort of things in Aus is to roll your eyes and just get the game from overseas. Hell, getting things from overseas is the primary way of gaming in Australia anyway to dodge the inflated pricing. There were a few bigger figures back around when the push for an R18+ rating went through but now the counter-push is fairly silent. Since our ratings board doesn't want to use the R18+ rating anyway nothing has changed.

It's a generational thing. It'll be fine in the long run. Once those who didn't grow up around electronic entertainment shuffle on this'll all be behind us. Or we could just carpet bomb South Australia and get the whole process sped up. Both of these are healthy, positive things.

The only reason the rules were more relaxed recently with the introduction of the Restricted 18+ rating was due to a communal grass roots type movement to put pressure on the government, hell a couple of people started a political part in South Australia with the expressed goals of dislodging the states Attourney General from his seat because he was one of the key people actively working to prevent games receiving an equal ratings scale. There was a lot of help from more local press out lets (especially the Kotaku Australia) to try and give the whole thing a voice.

In the end we sort of won but with some caveats. The rating which in an ideal world something like HM2 would fall under didn't receive full equal treatment when stacked up against how other mediums are classified, essentially the guidelines implicitly state that games require special considerations with regards to adult theme's because they're interactive (because still in 21st century we believe as a society that games are magically worse than anything else when it comes to things like Violence, Sexual content and Drug use).

One day hopefully all media will be classified equally without these idiotic arbitrary rules based purely on the medium being used.

There has been forever. In fact, the reason why the R18+ rating was introduced for video games in the first place was because of the pressure being placed on the classifications board by the games media and community in general. The problem is that everyone had a naive view of what the new rating entailed. The popular view was that the new rating would virtually render any question over whether a game should be sold moot because it would only be available for adults anyway. All that has happened, however, is that games that would have previously been rated MA15+ (like GTA5) have been migrated to the R18+ rating while games such as HM2 that are judged to fall outside the boundaries of acceptable moral standards (typically involving sexual content or drug-related content rather than violence) are still refused classification.

Part of the problem with all of this is also the fact that modifications to the classification board's policy are extremely difficult to push through because it only takes a single member to veto all efforts at change (see, for instance, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Atkinson).

Pretty sad this has been refused classification, even after we got the R18+ classification. Was really looking forward to it after the amazing first one.

There was a recent interview with the devs where they say they do indeed have an edited version, as it is an option in the menu. So I imagine they will just resubmit the censored version. Still sucks though.

I'm not Australian but I do live in Oz. There was a push to get the R18+ classification but that's about it. It's not really that high an agenda for idk like 75% of people.

There are ways around it anyways. I got MK9 shipped over from New Zealand when it was banned. Also on my 360 I have two extra profiles, one English, one American so i can purchase games not available in this region. Its not a big deal tbh.

The only thing that bothers me is when I game is released like South Park where they edit the content. The US version is the only uncensored version out there and the physical copies won't work on an Australian 360. That gets mah goat!

@crysack: @korwin: @masterpine: Thanks a ton for the info and clarification. And yeah, this seems like even a bigger slap in the face after an R18+ classification, that the government could still opt to refuse any rating, and therefore make the content unavailable entirely. It's good to, at the very least, hear that there have been some changes made though, and that the people's voice is being amplified through the media.

It's a bit random, but I'm moved to share this 1985 clip of John Denver testifying in front of the US Government, if for no reason other than to show a beautiful beacon of hope and acceptance in the face of authoritative misguided social control. For context, the PMRC, a group of many politicians wives (primarily Tipper Gore, wife of future Vice President and almost President Al Gore who appears in the video) was created to try and weed out and suppress music that they felt was endangering women and children (In other words, songs that made them feel icky). After impactful and heartfelt (though confrontational) testimony was given by Frank Zappa (one of my personal heroes) and Dee Snyder, they clearly weren't connecting with the government board. But this testimony from Denver, a country/folk/rock musician and outspoken Democrat (the political party which most of the members of the PMRC itself belonged to) who many of the politicians assumed was presenting an argument to counter that of the previous two, helped through his passionate plea for reason, in changing the proposal which would have resulted in the de facto blanket censorship of myriad musicians, to a dumb sticker that only had the net result in making albums which carried it more attractive to kids.

Keep fighting the good fight, southern hemisphere friends.

As an Aussie it can be frustrating when we miss out on content. That being said, if they release an edited version here and all that is removed is a rape scene I really have no issue with that.

In regards to people asking if we push for change regarding the video games rating system etc, yeah we do but to be honest there are much larger issues with our country at the moment than that stuff. Especially when it really isn't that hard to get your hand on anything that is banned. The government has no issue with you playing games that are banned, they only care if a retailer is selling them to the general public.

I dunno it kinda sucks they have that in the game. Why? It sounds gross

Well, it was probably intended to be. The first game was generally an exploration of random hyper-violence, and it doesn't seem out of place to me that the sequel continues that trend. However, if a part of the content is off putting to you or anyone else you are fundamentally entitled to avoid it at all costs.

The problem is when a national board comprised of few which the population has little control over... strips that choice entirely from every individual in a nation. When you go from opting to avoid content, to the inability to simply make that choice for yourself, you've been forced to cross a dangerous line.

When you allow a force stronger than you to censor that which you find distasteful, you have no argument when that same force blindly censors that which you find innocent and important. As Neil Gaiman said better than I can:

...if you don't stand up for the stuff you don't like, when they come for the stuff you do like, you've already lost.

As opposed to vast array of incredibly violent executions that were included in Hotline Miami 1?

I don't think I'll ever understand the propensity of the gaming community to demonise games for including sexual content over everything else - especially when they have no understanding of the context within which the content is being displayed.

Well we wouldn't want to offend anyone. That would be terrible!

Wouldn't it be terrible if we didn't protect this fictional character from a fictional crime. I mean killing hundreds of people, heck *billions* (according to call of duty statistics) in a fantasy video game is fine, but fantasy rape?Ban that sick filth!

Gamers fought long and hard to prove violence in games doesn't contribute to violence in real life, but sexual violence?! ban that ungood sick filth before the double plus good citizens have moral epileptic seizures!

This is very silly. Why is a video game any different than a book? Horrible things are horrible. That is why they are horrible. No sane person wants to issue harm upon another without due cause and even then struggle to do so. Police officers can break down in tears after they shoot someone (I've seen the videos, I won't link them). People don't want to hurt someone because they read a book where someone hurts someone else. Why is a game any different?

We should ban games like this only after we ban To Kill A Mockingbird because it is about a black man falsely accused of raping someone.

dude, you should try and find Norrland (one of Cactus's earlier games). That game is so much more fucked up than Miami is

@joshwent: @crysack: I played hm1 and loved it I will play 2. I agree with you on the whole about censorship a 100 percent. For me personally I don't like depictions of rape I think it's a much more relatable tragedy then the mass violence

Perhaps, but even if I find sexual violence a distasteful subject (and I'm sure most people do), I nonetheless believe that it is a subject that should remain open to interpretation in artistic mediums. I'm not going to go around dismissing something like Irréversible's rape scene as gross and unnecessary when the movie is quite clearly a serious examination of violence, vengeance and inevitability.

I totally agree with that. I'd readily say 99% of rape I've seen in fiction is used as a lame plot device exploited for it's cheap shock value and is never treated with the emotional impact that it inherently evokes. I don't personally know cheeky treasure hunter murderers or space captain murderers or fantasy human/elf/dwarf/whatever murderers or even generic military murderers. I do know multiple people who have been raped, and I see how that trauma still effects them in a very real and persistent way.

In the case of Dennaton however, HM delivered a such unique take on their ultraviolent world and how it made me fascinatingly uncomfortable, that I trust them to include what they think is necessary to convey their experience to their audience. That experience being one that isn't entirely a raw power fantasy, but one that submerges the player in a world where you are an active participant in the repulsive.

In other words, sometimes distasteful content is crucial, specifically because it's distasteful.

@joshwent: put much better than I could

@crysack: I guess I was quick to post. I agree with you I personally dislike censorship very much. I guess I read the depiction of the scene and was very off put and posted hastily.

Isn't there implicit rape in the first one? Was that one also refused classification, or am I completely off-base here?

The thing is that the scene already came under fire from IGN and the like several months ago and the devs said they were going to consider revising it. Given that it remains in the final product, I have to assume that they believe it is a necessary element of the game. That being said, I'm still going to reserve judgement until the game is released.

Considering the fact that according to previews the scene was already revised AND that the original scene was a potshot at this sort of behavior specifically, I call fucking bullshit on this. Graphic content and heavy subjects aren't bad by itself, it's about the way they are shown. The fact that the scene depicts a near-rape experience (that is completely staged in-universe and part of a Z-movie shoot) isn't offensive. The presentation may be, but considering the lengths the original Hotline Miami went in deconstructing and mocking the idea of a cathartic violence and the whole concept of video game power fantasy, I give Dennaton the benefit of the doubt. I mean, there is a specific subplot in the game about the "Fans", who are a completely unsubtle shot taken at fans of the original game who failed to see past the game's fast gameplay and wanted the sequel to be just about fucking people up.

No. A female character is at a forced porn shoot, but said shoot is interrupted by Jacket murdering everyone and taking the girl home. It's heavily implied throughout the rest of the game that she just lives with him, only later hooking up with him and that she has a positive influence on his mental state. You could dispute the "Damsel in Distress", "Women in Refrigerators" and "Manic Pixie Dream Girl" tropes there, but it's done fairly subtly - like most of the storytelling in that game. Plus, the female character taking part in that film shoot, according to previews and leaks, is supposed to have a much more empowered role in the grand scheme of things.

I wonder if they can somehow release it without DRM like CD Project did with Witcher 2, in which case it would be really easy to circumvent this issue. On the flip side this would of course lead to more piracy than usual.

Gross or not it should be up to consenting adults whether they want to experience this sort of stuff or not. Personally I do think it's starting to cross lines that have been classically established in the medium, but if anything that's a good thing. Anything that helps foster growth beyond rigidly established boundaries should be appreciated on some level. Not to say video games should start moving towards becoming snuff simulators, but you also shouldn't have to account for this huge elephant in the closet every time you're trying to construct a serious story.

Sexual content has always been a taboo issue in video games and maybe the best way to break away from this status quo isn't with gentle nudges but with a ball point hammer.

If this is the scene I'm thinking of that was shown at various conventions, it isn't a really rape scene, it's a near-rape scene. And it's staged as part of a movie people are shooting within the game. It's disturbing yeah, but refusing classification for it? I find that weird. Maybe I just underestimate how bad censorship is in Oz. I mean Irreversible is a movie with a 9 minute rape scene thats far more disturbing than pixel art. Is that banned in Australia?

@humanity: The first Hotline Miami is on GoG DRM Free.

It was re-reviewed by the classifications board after complaints from the Christian right in Australia but ultimately it was let through amid a large number of outspoken film critics. The only movies I can think of that were banned in recent years were A Serbian Film and Human Centipede 2.

1. Make US account
2. Buy all the games you want without fear of censorship
3. Have fun

@adequatelyprepared said:

That should work. I've bought numerous digital games off Amazon, for instance, to get a US code to put in to steam. Saints Row 4, for example. You then get the uncensored version.

Saints Row 4 worked fine if you got a US code, as to 99.99% of games. The only exception I know of is South Park. Buying a code for it from Amazon (for example) and putting that into AU steam gives a message that it's region locked, apparently. Of course, there are still plenty of ways around that, even without a VPN. You can have an american/european friend gift you the game (that's how I got the uncensored L4D2 when it was fresh). You can even gift it to yourself if you don't have a friend overseas and do a little legwork yourself. Another account that is US region and an online only credit card that you fill up from your real card, for instance.

@korwin said:

I'm fairly sure that sexual violence is banned a problem in all mediums, not just games.

Edit: Although I think when it's all said and done, it basically comes down to how the people are the board are feeling on the day.

The publisher (Devolver Digital) put out their statement on the matter. I agree with them and I'm glad they're sticking with their devs, they raise a good point about the board who judged it and it's interesting to see the devs even put in an option that if people want those scenes in the story they have to elect into it when starting the game.

Sucks that for console owners in Australia that it sounds like they're going to have a hard time getting the game.

We are aware of the recent report published by the Australian Classification Board in regards to Hotline Miami 2 and have been in communication with them. As such, we and Dennaton Games would like to clarify a few things:

First, to clear up any possible misconceptions, the opening cinematic that was first shown in June of 2013 has not changed in any way. We also want to make clear that players are given an choice at the start of the game as to whether they wish to avoid content that alludes to sexual violence. The sequence in question is presented below in context, both after choosing the uncut version of the game and after choosing to avoid content that alludes to sexual violence.

Second, in response to the report itself, we are concerned and disappointed that a board of professionals tasked with evaluating and judging games fairly and honestly would stretch the facts to such a degree and issue a report that describes specific thrusting actions that are not simply present in the sequence in question and incorrectly portrays what was presented to them for review.

Though we have no plans to officially challenge the ruling, we stand by our developers, their creative vision for the storyline, its characters and the game and look forward to delivering Hotline Miami 2: Wrong Number to fans very soon.

- Devolver Digital and Dennaton Games

So if the game is getting classified....does that mean it is coming out soon? Sorry you can't play it Australia, but I really want to get my hands around that game and ost

I came here to make this joke.

Guess Australia is still Australia.

This was my first thought upon hearing this news.