I think this game is substantially more difficult than the first one. I have just reached Act 3 and I feel like the final level in the first game was easier than some of the levels I've played in this one so far. I'm not complaining or anything -- I'm having a blast actually. My favorite part about the game is the multiple protagonists and how they force you to play differently each level.

@mb: very conflicting info online about the level editor. Shack news said it was coming to consoles, but its an old article. Destructoids review sounds like they have access to the level editor, even though its not supposed to be out yet, and they say it's PC exclusive. Im curious as well and I'd ask on twitter, but I don't feel like making an account.

If bad comes to worse, its not like this is a PC master race game of pride or something. Pretty much anything can run it, and at some point its going to be really cheap on PC.

Bugger all.

I am loving this game, the only negative I have is playing as the twins. The one with the gun gets caught on doors and walls so many times, their section where you climb the building felt next to impossible.

It's kinda weird to me. The areas are more open, and you can take a bullet without dying. The movement speed seems decreased and even the soundtrack is slower and more textured. The emphasis on telling a clearer story and much much more variety in both weapons and art is pretty cool too. On the soundtrack, I prefer the original for that pulsing feeling, and found most tracks okay in this one. I do think they seem more detailed and less obviously looping than the original, and there are a couple really good ones. If Hotline Miami was a PCP Fever dream out of Scarface beating his head into his enemies, then this is a hazed schizophrenic acid trip that moves in waves. Personally I think it's a good game. Not as good as 1, but still cool.

Well, like I said I'm going to continue playing the game. I still like it, I just like it less so far. Many of you seem to really enjoy it, so I'll see if more playing time will change my mind. The issue that I'm having though, is that yes, this video does look awesome, until you get to 21 seconds in; and it seems like my time with Hotline Miami 2 so far, has mostly been the parts shown after the 21 second mark of this video. A lot of waiting around, not moving much, trying to lock on to an enemy that is off screen so he doesn't instantly kill you when you move up.

It is my primary complaint about this game so far. In the first Hotline Miami, you could clear every single stage without waiting around for more than one second. It was one constant flow that was superbly awesome with the awesome music. In this, the music is still insanely good, I just don't like that I am forced to wait around while listening to it.

The original Hotline Miami is a tough game to iterate on.

They got it so close to perfection the first time around.

I am curious to try 2 at some point.

I think the level design in HM2 is waay way worse than the first one and that's the biggest letdown. Almost every level now just has way too many enemies with guns and a ton of areas that are just big open rooms that you can't see the end of and there's guys with guns at the end who will just shoot you without you even knowing how where they are. And some of the new characters are terrible to play as. The swans are just completely broken, the one with the gun always lags behind and gets stuck on walls all the time and she only seems to pick up guns when she wants to. And the dude you play as in the military levels is just terrible, as he can't pick up any guns, so you always end up having almost no ammo at all and his levels seem to be entirely designed around you spending most of the time shooting your way through.

I am with you. Its unfortunate because if the AI was a bit better, it would've been a hell of a time to run through rooms.

It seems like a natural evolution of the original to me. Bigger levels, better story, more gameplay diversity, harder, more characters.

It retains that thing I love about Hotline Miami, which is the feeling of trying something one way for 15 minutes, then choosing to tackle it a completely different way and finding success thanks to your willingness to change your own tactics. There were levels I felt like I was stuck on because a certain tactic got me 80% of the way there, but instead of just plugging away doing the same thing over and over again I changed my strategy and would usually be done soon afterwards.

I'm about 9 hours in and I'm still finding myself getting that satisfying feeling of adapting my way out of a challenging screen. Sure the levels are bigger, and you actually NEED to use guns, but that opens up so many more options. For me, this is an improvement on the original in every way.

Quite a few reviews have picked up on the same criticisms, so you're not alone.

PC Gamer: http://www.pcgamer.com/hotline-miami-2-wrong-number-review/

Videogamer: http://www.videogamer.com/reviews/hotline_miami_2_wrong_number_review.html

Midnight Resistance: http://midnightresistance.co.uk/reviews/hotline-miami-2-wrong-number

I loved the first game and have been loving this one too. The added difficulty is great for returning fans and I don't really have a problem with any of the changes made. The first game will always exist for those that are underwhelmed by the sequel. As for this being unneeded, that's complete and utter bullshit to be honest. It is definitely needed for those of us who had their fill of the first game and wanted more.

What happened to the ability to change difficulty setttings? I don't see that anywhere.

[INSERT SEQUEL HERE] doesn't seem as good as the first one.

Please use this forum topic title liberally.

Just beat it

I don't know what the fuck just happened, but I liked it.

Beat it last night. I think this game is incredible as far as story and atmosphere goes, nothing comes close.

Yeah, I'm way more into the story this time around. The ties between characters, the disordered presentation, the ties to the first game, all of it. They did a pretty damn good job on expanding their messed up world.

You unlock Hard mode after beating the game once.

Think I'm going to skip this one. The original was one of those rare games where I got the highest rank for all levels and a platinum trophy. It was just so perfect as a one-off surprise indie game, and I really didn't feel like I needed more of it.

Now that I'm five hours in, I'm liking it a whole lot more. That might because I was really rusty when I started out, or it might be because the story is making a little bit more sense at this point. They really went for it, I'll give them that much... It seems like every crazy idea for a Hotline Miami character got thrown into this game, some are pretty great (Dude with two machine-guns!), some are not so great (non-lethal guy?).

Awww, I love the writer. The way he unloads every gun you pick up is super bad-ass! If you don't like it though, you can just kill a couple guys (pin them and beat on them Gunpoint-style) and the screen will go red, he'll throw off his jacket, and you can start killing dudes.

I just got to the first level where you play as the "no guns" dude and... just... why? I agree that it's easy enough to cheese the levels by luring dudes, but this isn't an MMO. I shouldn't feel the need to peck people off one-by-one by kiting them around. The second floor of that level is frustrating, as well, this game seems to really love patrolling gunmen. I was on a roll and loving it up until that point, but that level sucked the wind out of me and I stopped playing.

@ghostiet: my only problem with the bigger levels is sometimes you can't even zoom out far enough to see all the enemies in a room, and then you get shot off screen, which is bullshit.

Getting shot off screen is much more prevalent in this one and makes it feel sort of cheaper. The levels are so big and open that you can't have awareness of it all. In HLM you could pretty much scan the entire map and figure out how many dudes there are and what choke points there are. In this you'll see about 50% of the map at once and it'll turn out that 90% of the enemies are hidden away.

I still really like it though. It's certainly not as fast as HLM1 though that could be rust on my part. It's certainly harder, but I don't think it's harder for any other reason than you're much more likely to be killed from off screen than you ever were in HLM.

The soundtrack is amazing though. I left my Vita playing the game yesterday after I got off my bus just so I could listen to the level music playing on the walk home.

Just wanted to say that the fifth act is faaaaaaaaantastic!

Worst things about HM2 being banned here in Australia? Because the soundtrack is listed as "DLC" on Steam - requiring the game to purchase - the fucking soundtrack is effectively banned here too, as I can't find anywhere else to buy it. Surely there'll be a bandcamp option or somesuch?

In other weirdness I was able to preorder and download the DRM free version of HM2 itself from the humble store. A few hours later I logged back in to see what would happen if I tried to redeem the steam key. The product page was entirely gone from the humble store. It's listed as being in my library, but when I click through to the page that usually has download links it is blank.

EDIT: I should also say I played it for about 30 mins and I'm already WAY on board.

I love the writer too and... when you unload the guns, it continues your combo!

Really not liking it.

I hate how rooms are designed. There are rooms with so much open space that even walking around in Look mode means you can't see the guy at the other end of the room with a gun. They have longer vision cones than you do. That's horseshit.

The story is not grabbing me. Hotline Miami succeeded with the weird, hazey understanding of what's going on, and it eventually started jumping around in time, and switching characters... This just seems like Call of Duty where you're some dude now and then this thing hap- YOU'RE DEAD next dude. In HM1, you don't know why things are happening but you have a rough idea of what is happening on the surface. There's no surface in the first 90 minutes of Wrong Number. It's just inexplicable event after inexplicable event, and there's not enough solid information to even remember them in context.

Still has Perturbator though. The sort of post-massacre haze sound, the headache noise, continues to be this great moment in each map where the frustration of constant failure and the hardcore ultra-violence in a moment are brought to the fore; while the music is pumping and you're constantly restarting, you're working yourself up, and when the Level Complete rips on the screen and the music changes to distorted thrumming, you suddenly become cognizant of both the bodies strewn everywhere and your agitated mental state caused by the challenge and aggressive pace. It's a real whoa.

After playing for awhile I'll repost what I posted on NeoGAF:

So been reading some of the reviews and impressions that have been floating around the net. Convinced the people complaining about the level design and the use of guns are the same kind of people who complain when people use throws in fighting games because "its cheap"

The first game had very limited use for guns. Honestly, once you got the tiger mask it was GG just run around and punch everything to death. I really like that they FORCE you to adapt to situations with new approaches. This isn't a game afraid to forcibly shove you out of your comfort zone kick you in the balls and tell you to deal with it. And I love that. So many games coddle the player in a way that doesn't push them to be better.

Game is sublime.

@demoskinos: Preach it, brother.

Judging by the Quick Look I'd say you're right. Alas, we'll never know for sure because people who don't want that sort of thing (huge ass floors that make running ahead fearlessly with a stick non viable) are going to steer clear of it should they watch the Quick Look.

Oh, also those tunes were anything but pumping.

I think the problem so far for me is that half of the playable characters, and thus half of the levels, are too slow. It's not that they're too gun heavy, it's that the levels are so large and so many enemies have guns that it slows the game down immensely. Hotline Miami is at it's best when you play it with a can't stop, won't stop mentality.

If you ask me, it's the Fan levels that are the best, except for the sewer level, because they just seem to play so much faster, have so much more potential for huge combos, and aren't this weird stop and go thing other levels can be. Also, all the fans are infinitely more interesting characters by nature of having the most significant gameplay differences. I'd play the entire game just as Corey if I could, since the dodge roll changes everything about how you can approach a level. Even the swans, as janky as they are, were pretty fun and capable of some pretty sick combos no other character can do. The only other character interesting from a gameplay perspective is Jake's third mask, which is hilarious and perfect.

I bought this game on gog, but I'm thinking I might buy it on steam too if that's the only place to get custom maps, cause goddamn I want more Fan levels.

Agreed, I love that this one is more challenging. I got fairly proficient in the first game by the end, and if I would have just blown through HM2, I don't think I would have enjoyed it as much.

Also, if you aren't playing this game with the music blaring in your face then you're doing it wrong.

I'm loving it so far. It's exactly what I wanted in the sequel.

God yes. If you aren't playing with Headphones like what are you even doing with your life.

I think people are conflating the game being more difficult with it somehow being worsely designed, there was plenty of bullshit spots in the first one as well, if anything the enemy AI seems toned down quite a bit to give you a little more time. The Tony mask wouldn't exist if they didn't intend for most levels to be doable with just melee.

Just finished the game and i think it's far better than the first game. It still has a lot of the jank and bad design choices that the first game, but overall it was a better playing game. To be fair, i was kinda disappointed in the first Hotline Miami , i found a play style that i had become complacent with and it just made the game too easy. It wasn't until the game forced the mechanics on you, by changing your character, that i found myself back on board. They seem to have learned that with this game, by constantly changing the characters on you, they keep things interesting.

Also i played the whole game without using the "lock-on" feature, it was one of the things that ruined the first game for me. I may go back and try it on hard mode, curious if it unlocks any more story detail.The soundtrack to HM 2, i think, is consistently better but HM 1 had a hand full of more, "stand out" tracks.

Felt completely satisfied by the end of it, as apposed to the mixed feelings i had for the first game.

I'm feeling pretty mixed about the game having just beat it.

I'm certain that I prefer the first game in pretty much every way, but I still liked this one a ton. My biggest complaint is the way they structured it, switching between characters with wildly different abilities prevented me from getting into a flow like I did in the first Hotline Miami. It's like if they made spins on the Biker section of Hotline Miami several times and broke it up across the entire game.

But that drug trip was awesome.

I just played through the original last night and this morning. Started wrong number about an hour ago. I don't see much a difference. As for needing guns that's not true at all.. I've had no issue with melee. Just lure dudes to you more/run into adjacent rooms quickly. It seems easier to take people by surprise so I havn't had any issues running into a room and punching 3 dudes down, then finishing them off. I quite like it so far, and believe the music is much better if at all possible.

Alright having gone through the whole game I think the prison level is not very good, just because they made more dog enemies (dog humans). Some of the later levels are a little too long and they could probably improve the controls for the 9+ screens size stages. Of course my favorite level in the whole series is one where they just slapped a shitload of enemies in the same room twice and somehow it works/is fun (First Blood). Second best is the first biker level in the first game.

Except I do not think HM2 is harder at all. In fact, I'm going through it faster than the first game. If you're going to tell me everything I did in HM2 (exploiting the AI) works in the first game, I guess I'll believe you. But the first game didn't push me to exploit it at all, and I had way more fun with it because of that; in addition to it being more challenging as a result. Here, I just drag enemies to door corners for safe kills and combo's. Yeah, I'm only getting B scores now usually. But I was never a great scorer to begin with and I don't much care for maximizing score.

It's very much a design issue. The first game didn't force you to do anything and I approached it 'as intended' because of that. This game does and I automatically exploit it because of it. Before anyone says: 'yeah, but you're choosing to do that'- No. That's just an excuse of poor design. The game should encourage you to play it to its full potential. It shouldn't encourage you to cut corners. Which is what it is doing.

If the game would stop crashing when I'm at the 3rd or 4th checkpoint of a level, that'd be great. I don't know how many more times I'll be replaying Death Wish before saying screw it.

Just played some of the first game to see if we're all just big complainers. But I don't know, running through tight areas with a knife certainly had its charm.

I see what you mean, because I definitely did lure enemies to corners and blast them away in a few instances. I guess for me, I wasn't thinking "wow I hate this" at any point in the game. I was having just as much fun (and more IMO) as the first game.

In terms of forcing you to do things like this, do you mean just the gun thing? Or forcing the specific scenarios with the different characters? Because I definitely liked the variation between characters.

I've finished the game up now and there's a lot about it that I think makes it a worse game than the first one.

It's a puzzle game now. A puzzle game where the solution to most of the puzzles is "don't go anywhere near glass, use a gun to bait people around corners and then smash their heads in as they come through the door". When that's not it, it's "wait here for patrol A, kill him silently so not attract attention, then use his gun on enemies C and D. Kill E and F by hitting the lock on button and sniping them through windows".

The prison level is by far the weakest, mostly because they introduce those new enemies that you cannot shoot and have to melee. I didn't notice there was a melee weapon there and it took me a while to figure it out. You can imagine my "joy" when on the next screen they put in those guys and the guys who you can't melee meaning you had to time everything just like a puzzle.

There's much less of a frantic approach to this game compared to the first one. And that's not terrible. It's still an enjoyable game when you ultimately accept that it's taken a different approach. The music is still good and when you're not just forced to bait people into cheap kills the kills are enjoyable.

I'm mostly looking forward to the level editor now because I think that's where myself and other people who miss the frantic action will make levels to bring it back.

Oh and the hardmode thing of halving the ammo every time you pick up a weapon is some of the silliest/possibly laziest way to increase difficultly I've ever seen.

Soundtrack is baller though.

This sounds absolutely horrendous...

Honestly, at the moment it's feeling like a real slog, with each new level being my new least favourite. It might be partly to do with playing on PS4 though, maybe a controller just isn't really viable for this game - but it certainly was for the last one. And it would be pretty shitty to put it out on consoles if that was the case! It just feels way too imprecise to do what the game wants me to do.

Currently on Act 4 Stronghold and I think I might have already had my fill of this game. I have not enjoyed this one half as much as the first game. As some have already mentioned the level design is often a big issue; I keep thinking maybe the next level will be better only to find myself disappointed again with another wide open design dense with mobs of gun toting dudes. I also rarely find myself hitting the fun momentum of the first game where you could rush from room to room taking out each enemy in succession. Too often it seems HM2 involves it's either waiting on patrols or camping out in corners and pulling crowds to ambush them---neither of which I find is a very thrilling way to play HM. I don't care for the length of some of these levels either. I don't remember so many 3 or 4 part stage levels in the first one. It makes it difficult to quit when you want because then you have to replay the entire long stage. Overall, I just am not feeling this one like I did the original (story included). At least the music is still enjoyable. And playing as Alex and Ash is actually kind of fun and unique when not bugged out. I just wish could pick my mask so I could play as them more often.

I completed it on Steam using an XBOX 360 controller so it is possible! I have no idea how much easier using a mouse and keyboard would make it though, a lot of people seem to think playing with a controller is crazy.

@paulmako: I actually found it more responsive and smoother thanks to the analog movement. I found mouse aim oddly swim my and WASD wasn't working for me that well - although I did initially beat the entire game with mouse and keyboard, I came back and got a lot of A + ratings using a pad.