@RsistncE said:
lol at all the wapanese who still can't face the fact that the japanese game industry is dying
And the Western industry is so healthy you never see Western developers going out of business or losing money, right?
Person » credited in 100 games
@smiddy said:
The part that turns me off playing many Japanese games is the mechanics. Often times I feel very limited, very closed in, when it comes to playing Japanese games. I often feel like I'm playing my their rules, doing things their way.
Although this isn't necessarily a bad thing on it's own, the usually over-the-top, long winded animations, or bizarre procedures for accomplishing anything mean that I end up having to trudge through so much crap to get where I want to go that it's no longer any fun.
You should play Bayonetta if you want a game where animation does not have priority over player input and you are only limited by your own skills, not the game.
It's the exact opposite of a game like Enslaved which is hopelessly limited by poor mechanics and long winded animations, and Enslaved is a Western game.
@Curufinwe said:
@smiddy said:
The part that turns me off playing many Japanese games is the mechanics. Often times I feel very limited, very closed in, when it comes to playing Japanese games. I often feel like I'm playing my their rules, doing things their way.
Although this isn't necessarily a bad thing on it's own, the usually over-the-top, long winded animations, or bizarre procedures for accomplishing anything mean that I end up having to trudge through so much crap to get where I want to go that it's no longer any fun.
You should play Bayonetta if you want a game where animation does not have priority over player input and you are only limited by your own skills, not the game.
It's the exact opposite of a game like Enslaved which is hopelessly limited by poor mechanics and long winded animations, and Enslaved is a Western game.
Perhaps smiddy has only played Lost Planet?
Japanese games still have the same menu screens they had during the Playstation era. They are still dedicated to reminding you that you are playing a video game at all times.
Bayonetta is the one Japanese game dudes over here are down with... but remember how the inventory menu worked? It worked like a game from 1997. It gave you a score at the end of every encounter and stage. I can almost tell that a game is made with old, outdated ideas as soon as I see "Chapter 1-1" when I turn the game on. We don't have 1-1s and 2-4s and 5-1s anymore, Japan.
Someone mentioned Japanese games are stagnant because they are focused on rules, and that's exactly it. The game plays like it was made in 1997 because it MUST be like that. The checkpointing is bad because it MUST be bad because that's what challenge was in 1997. Monster Hunter is clunky and broken because it MUST be clunky and broken, because the game's rules have been established.
Japanese companies just remind of old doctors who haven't learned any new medical techniques or treatments in 15 years because they've always done it that way before. Even if something new and better has been developed, they either refuse or cannot adapt.
@Curufinwe said:
@RsistncE said:
lol at all the wapanese who still can't face the fact that the japanese game industry is dying
And the Western industry is so healthy you never see Western developers going out of business or losing money, right?
lol i said INDUSTRY, not individual firms. individual firms do not represent an entire industry, but if you want to compare numbers we can, just let me know.
It is very shocking to me that this is the exact opposite of mine, as Western games that utilize the "From Restriction, Freedom" methodology are also on the backfoot and its largest refuge is now Japan and a few Eastern European enclaves on PC.The part that turns me off playing many Japanese games is the mechanics. Often times I feel very limited, very closed in, when it comes to playing Japanese games. I often feel like I'm playing by their rules, doing things their way.
Although this isn't necessarily a bad thing on it's own, the usually over-the-top, long winded animations, or bizarre procedures for accomplishing anything mean that I end up having to trudge through so much crap to get where I want to go that it's no longer any fun.
Essentially, Inafune's 'winning' is apparently the Japanese brand conquering and dictating to the rest of the world what they should like to play. I'd venture a guess that the main driver of revenue for Japanese games still is their huge domestic base,
"PS3 HAS NO GAMES".Consider a series like Mass Effect. From each iteration to the next, whole game mechanics have been altered. the structure completely redesigned, and many new story developments included. For an example of a more static Western game, look to the Elder Scrolls series, which, remaining essentially the same, iterates on itself with expanding results. These are seminal series, yet constant growth or long development cycles are routine to better perfect those games. I see the same Japanese games I played last year, and two years ago, and well before that, appearing year after year on the shelves, unchanged.
Could the same thing that happened to adventure games be happening to Japanese made games? Where they have just as many sales as ever but other genres have just outgrown them.
@Neonie said:
I've tried to make some sense of what this dude is saying but I just can't. Everyone is praising his speech, but it looks like to me he just keeps repeating him self saying "Japanese game design is outdated" and "They should of kept up with the west."
But if companies like Gust and Nippon Ichi weren't around at this point I would of probably given up on video games because if EVERY GAME where "You are a muscle head with a gun now shoot dudes" it would be head hurtingly droll.
He also says Capcom (OF ALL DEVELOPERS!) has kept up with the west, and I find Capcom to one of the most amazingly disappointing developers of all time, having had to give up on each series they've ever put out that I liked it, and which is pretty much a hurricane of bad decision after bad decision.
I seriously don't understand the blind praise for this dude, and that's all anyone seems to be doing.
Same here. Inafune seems to of made a new career out of himself, these days, by literally trash-talking the industry that he works for. Granted, he's the heart and soul of old Capcom, besides being the God of Mega Man/RockMan but that is no excuse to belittle the work of other developers just because of stylistic differences. Especially given there are still many Japanese developers: Platinum Games, Grasshopper Manufacture, From Software, Atlus, NIS, which make distinct (and frankly) awesome games irrespective of what's said. Because of this, he comes off as arrogant all in all.
@Vorbis: I think the main point is, you don't really hear much of a Japanese Indie like scene you do with american/european developers.
I think Japan knows. There is no way they can dominate again since it's not about a particular county dominating a particular industry. Games went global....very global. More than people would be comfortable saying.
So now Capc"p"om can develop stuff in Canada. Konami can develop stuff in Spain. You can outsource a ton of stuff to China ( Concepts for Dark Souls where made by a Chinese concept artist without leaving his chair/country)
The new Suda game's script was written by an American (Lollipop Chainsaw)
Eidos is now part of Square Enix!
You have no idea just how many characters that are thought out to be "Soooo silly Japanese" Are actually outsourced to American concept artists.
This" Japanese games are dead" is an empty argument made only by a few people who just want to point out the obvious. Just to feel like they are making the "winning" argument. That without realizing that things have changed and will continue to change to the point where is not going to be about what particular country is wining or losing, but what game. We are almost there!
Those people Inafune is worried about are going to be forced to change. Many have already changed,willingly, but it's going to take time. ( games take 2+ years to develop. Takes 2 or 3 iterations to get a new game concept right and they HAVE to do something new.)
@RsistncE said:
@Curufinwe said:
@RsistncE said:
lol at all the wapanese who still can't face the fact that the japanese game industry is dying
And the Western industry is so healthy you never see Western developers going out of business or losing money, right?
lol i said INDUSTRY, not individual firms. individual firms do not represent an entire industry, but if you want to compare numbers we can, just let me know.
The Japanese industry isn't dying and the Western industry is not as healthy as you think. An industry is made up of individual firms and only a fool would ignore how so many of them have been going out of business and losing money.
@smiddy said:
Although this isn't necessarily a bad thing on it's own, the usually over-the-top, long winded animations, or bizarre procedures for accomplishing anything mean that I end up having to trudge through so much crap to get where I want to go that it's no longer any fun.
Even if Metal Gear has extremely good production values I have to admit that MGS4 was waaay over the top in terms of long winded cut-scenes, even more so than the previous iterations. I feel that the MGS series could just as well have been sold as interactive movies, where you choose paths now and then, instead of pretending its a game. I felt really restless and actually got pissed off now and then, waiting to actually get to play a bit in between. Also the FF series feels a tad too much at times, pushing me back to western rpg's like others here. That said, what has always annoyed me the most about most Japanese RPG's are the hundreds of random encounters when you try to get from point a to b.
@Curufinwe said:
@RsistncE said:
@Curufinwe said:
@RsistncE said:
lol at all the wapanese who still can't face the fact that the japanese game industry is dying
And the Western industry is so healthy you never see Western developers going out of business or losing money, right?
lol i said INDUSTRY, not individual firms. individual firms do not represent an entire industry, but if you want to compare numbers we can, just let me know.
The Japanese industry isn't dying and the Western industry is not as healthy as you think. An industry is made up of individual firms and only a fool would ignore how so many of them have been going out of business and losing money.
You didn't give me a comprehensive list of firms (with their individual betas, alphas (multiples), financials etc) and then aggregate those numbers into industry means with variances. Instead you said, "DURRR FIRMS IN WEST GO UNDER THEREFORE WESTERN INDUSTRY ISN'T MUCH BETTER". You fallaciously attributed the health of an industry to a minority of firms, and not even on a financial basis but on a firm by firm basis. I am graduating with an honours in Finance. It is clear that you are not.
Also: the Japanese industry has lost over 80% of it's market share from over 50% worldwide to just over 10%. The western industry continues to eat into this market share. Numbers don't lie.
I don't see how anyone can deny it. Day one DLC, being banned from single player games, horse armour, in-game characters literally selling you quests, horse armour, game libraries mysteriously vanishing, customer support not restoring aforementioned game library, always online DRM and not to mention horse armour. This could only be a product of Western Civilisation.
Not that I don't think that his point is valid. But... Of everyone why it has to be Inafune saying this?
@RsistncE said:
@Curufinwe said:
@RsistncE said:
@Curufinwe said:
@RsistncE said:
lol at all the wapanese who still can't face the fact that the japanese game industry is dying
And the Western industry is so healthy you never see Western developers going out of business or losing money, right?
lol i said INDUSTRY, not individual firms. individual firms do not represent an entire industry, but if you want to compare numbers we can, just let me know.
The Japanese industry isn't dying and the Western industry is not as healthy as you think. An industry is made up of individual firms and only a fool would ignore how so many of them have been going out of business and losing money.
You didn't give me a comprehensive list of firms (with their individual betas, alphas (multiples), financials etc) and then aggregate those numbers into industry means with variances. Instead you said, "DURRR FIRMS IN WEST GO UNDER THEREFORE WESTERN INDUSTRY ISN'T MUCH BETTER". You fallaciously attributed the health of an industry to a minority of firms, and not even on a financial basis but on a firm by firm basis. I am graduating with an honours in Finance. It is clear that you are not.
Also: the Japanese industry has lost over 80% of it's market share from over 50% worldwide to just over 10%. The western industry continues to eat into this market share. Numbers don't lie.
Can I get your numbers? I'm a bit of a stat nut and Love seeing numbers like this. :)
MGS was the only Japanese franchise that I liked in the last ten years. Now that MGS sort of died off, Japanese games are pretty much dead to me. I want more games like The Last Guardian. I do not want westernized Japanese shooters, but at the same time I don't want my protagonists to look like girls(unless they actually are girls)... either. Give me mature and unique Japanese made games.
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