Rookie to fighting games (Killer Instinct XBO)

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JohnLocke

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#1  Edited By JohnLocke

Hey all,

I am looking to give fighting games a go after watching some of the Capcom and EVO tournaments this year. I currently have Killer Instinct on Xbox One and have had a few matches against some friends. However, they tend to beat me very easily (I had a win loss record of 1/12 yesterday, with the one win I think the other player took pity to let me win essentially). I get cornered and can not counter the attacks (or do not know how to I should say).

So, are there any tips or advise or places you can tell me to look at that will help bring my level up in terms of being able to position myself, what counter moves are good to learn, what characters are good to look at for a rookie level player, etc?

Thanks duders.

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officer_falcon

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Have you tried going through the tutorials yet? KI has a pretty in depth tutorial system to give you a chance to practice all the mechanics of the game.

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Jonny_Anonymous

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Play through the tutorials over and over and over, it has one of the best tutorials in fighting games. Once you think you've got that down play the singleplayer and try to incorporate everything you have learned then as you feel yourself getting better keep upping the difficulty.

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hmoney001

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Practice, practice, practice.

You will get frustrated and annoyed but keep at it.

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JohnLocke

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Ah some interesting feedback.

So, are there any characters I should look at practicing with? I have done some of the training with Jago but given everybody who has done the training will be familiar with him, are there any similar characters? I like his movement speed and ability to get close where as with other characters (I am thinking of the girl who looks like something out of a Horror film, or Skeletor/whatever the Skeleton character is called) they move quite slow and seem to be aimed more at a technical player (which is something I am not able to quite muster, it took me a long time to be able to do the air counter move that the tutorial teaches you early on with Jago).

Anyway, thanks to hmoney001, Jonny_Anonymous, and Officer_Falcon for the views so far, they are appreciated.

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hassun

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#6  Edited By hassun
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JohnLocke

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hassun

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#8  Edited By hassun

@johnlocke: I reckon that will take you a while to get through. Giant Bomb has a small friendly FGC community. We don't have (m)any KI experts but some of us do follow the tournament scene quite closely and you're always welcome to join in. Our home base/club house are @flstyle's tournament threads. Feel free to drop by whenever you like.

I hope to be reading reports of you trouncing your friends in KI very soon.

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altairre

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The secret behind getting good at fighting games is that there is no secret. You just have to put in a ton of work (how much depends on the game) and the grind can be frustrating for new players. The biggest hurdle is getting over that initial hump which is why not many players stick with them. If you're reading tutorials and watching videos you're on a good path though and it is extremely rewarding once you feel that you're improving. Can't wait to get my hands on KI myself, unfortunately I'll have to wait for the PC version.

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fnrslvr

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As already mentioned, the in-game tutorial is pretty good, and will give you some grounding in a lot of generally important concepts. Also worth noting is that the practice mode is pretty advanced, offering features like attack data (startup/active/recovery, adv. on hit/block, special properties, etc -- all of which are explained in more detail in the dojo), record/playback, hitbox display, etc. So if you're just getting annihilated by something your opponent is doing, then you can replicate it in practice mode and figure out how to beat it.

KI also has the best fighting game tutorial ever: A Killer Instinct Guide for SFIV Players, by KI community member Infilament. Despite the name, Infil's guide is great for fighting game newbies as well, and provides a thorough general overview of the game and its mechanics, as well as a lot of in-depth information about each character.

So, are there any characters I should look at practicing with? I have done some of the training with Jago but given everybody who has done the training will be familiar with him, are there any similar characters? I like his movement speed and ability to get close where as with other characters (I am thinking of the girl who looks like something out of a Horror film, or Skeletor/whatever the Skeleton character is called) they move quite slow and seem to be aimed more at a technical player (which is something I am not able to quite muster, it took me a long time to be able to do the air counter move that the tutorial teaches you early on with Jago).

Air counter move? Do you mean the anti-air lesson? A bit of advice: anti-airing is hard for new players, if you can just get to a point where you're consistently able to down+HP or dragon punch an opponent who is jumping in on you then you're doing well. Don't worry about following up a down+HP with anything, your goal is just to teach your opponent that they can't just jump in on you all the time. Sure some characters can get 20%+ off of an optimal anti-air, but you should at first focus on being able to do something in each situation, and worry about optimizing later.

As to other characters you could be picking up, if you want movement speed and accessibility, maybe look into Wulf, Orchid, TJ, Riptor, and Shadow Jago (there's some exclusivity nonsense going on here, but you'll be able to buy Shago within a 2 week window that starts 3 days from now). All of these characters move faster than Jago and mostly want to get in and lay down the beats. Whereas Jago's main gameplan is to pressure using fwd+HK, close/crouching MK, laser sword, etc to stay safe and at frame advantage all day in front of his opponent and punish them if they press a button, and intersperse the occasional throw or safe overhead to surprise them, the characters I just listed are mostly about using unreactable, unsafe-on-block high/low mixups to open up their opponents, preferably right now. (Although Riptor is kinda a mix of both.)

wrt Hisako and Spinal (the characters you mentioned), they are more technical characters in various ways, yeah, but their mobility isn't so bad overall. Hisako's slow movement is supplemented by a long, fast dash, which you can use to cover distance extremely quickly, but you lose out on fine control of positioning. Spinal has a run instead of a forward dash, and he can cancel his run into any of his (generally great) normals. Again, they're both pretty technical characters, but if they're the characters that you find appealing, then you should be able to pick them up once you figure out what they're built around.

But also, there's no shame in maining Jago -- I'm a Jago main, after all. The real shame is in being an incessant Jumping Jago, making yourself an absolutely free win for your opponent but maximally annoying in the process.

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L1GHTN1N

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I'll echo this again: Learning fighting games are rough. You are going to lose a lot. A LOT. When I first started seriously playing fighting games I think I went about 4-100 starting out in Street Fighter IV, when I started trying to play Street Fighter 2 HD Remix I went into a lobby and went 0-100 over a day (almost had 1 match but missed a Spiral Arrow as Cammy). I'm sure I'm not the only person with horror stories like that.

You are going to lose to players that are just way better than you and outplayed you due to exploiting your tendencies that you might not even recognize or just because they know combos and moves better. You are going to lose to players they abuse one move that you just do not know how to get around. You are going to lose to players that you know how to beat but cannot execute it for whatever reason. You are going to lose to players that walk up and throw you 3 times in a row and do nothing but wake-up DPs and full screen Wind Kicks. You are going to lose to players that hit you with a fireball at the beginning of the match and spend the rest of it running away and taunting. You are going to lose to players that do nothing but jumping HP, not even a combo afterwards. It'll suck.

You are going to lose to a bunch of bullshit early on and it'll be infuriating and make you want to throw your fight stick/controller at your TV and uninstall the game. The important thing to remember is that everyone starts out that way and with training and practice it gets better. It is also important to remember that KI is a pretty balanced game, and if you are losing to something it is an issue with your lack of knowledge or execution, not because something is broken. This sounds obvious now but when you do lose to someone doing nothing but Saberwulf runs you might feel different. However eventually you get to the point where you see them abusing only that one move that single-handedly beat you 2 weeks ago, you'll realize that you now know how to beat it, just fucking murder them and feel like the smartest best person in the world and realize why the people who are so passionate about fighting games are.

Now for the actual training part, I feel it's important to give yourself goals besides just win a match. Ideally these are things you think you need to work on from thinking about and analysis your own play. It could be something simple like "Hey I'm going to make sure when I hit a combo, I end it instead of blowing out (what it's called if you fill out the KV without an ender)" if that's a common issue for you, again with the focus on being hitting the ender. Go into training mode, do it until you feel comfortable in it, then jump into a few matches and see if you can do it in a real situation as that's entirely different than executing in a static environment. If you achieve that goal by just doing Opener, Linker, Ender or some other sub-optimal way then that's fine, it'll come later once you get the basics down. Once you feel comfortable with that try doing longer combos with the ender. Maybe after that you notice you're getting counter-broken a lot because you are only using medium attacks and linkers, so try to mix it up more. Once you feel comfortable with that, maybe you notice that a lot of people play Jago and you have trouble getting in on people who use a lot of fireballs. Again go into training mode, record Jago throwing fireballs at full screen, and see if you can figure out a way to get around it. If it's not something you can figure out yourself, there's a lot of great resources out there including the guide Fnrslvr and Hassun mentioned and the actual move list. While doing this stuff you'll probably lose some matches because you were trying to meet your goal. Good. In the short term it might hurt but in the long term what you learn will help tremendously.

I've ranted enough as I always do on these types of threads but keep practicing and losing and eventually you'll be practicing and winner. Fighting games take a lot of work to get good at, but it's doable. Remember that most of the people you are watching have been playing for years (decades in some cases) and a lot of people you're playing against likely have some level of experience outside of KI, it isn't going to be an overnight thing. Over time however you should feel yourself improving, and be able to look back on yourself in a couple of months and realize how much you didn't know starting out versus how much you do now and it'll feel great.

Miscellaneous

  • Orchid sounds up your alley, she doesn't have Jago's projectile but she is pretty fast, has good tools and range to get in, and pretty easy to start out with.
  • Ultrachen's First Attack series is a pretty good starting point for general Fighting Game learning, you probably know them as the main Street Fighter IV announcers (including EVO and Capcom Cup). The video links talks about how to start thinking and learning about a fighting game, going from thinking about it as just Me versus an opponent to Me versus Another Player. It may be a bit dry for some people's tastes but it helped me a lot. They also did a video series for Killer Instinct Season 2 going over the mechanics and characters, I think the KI guide does a better job but may be worth a look at least if you want a breakdown of the characters.
  • If reading is more your thing, Patrick Miller wrote a free eBook for Shoryuken.com going over learning a new fighting game, it talks mostly about Street Fighter II but the fundamental concepts will carry over to a lot of other fighting games, Killer Instinct especially
  • For a faster, more concise read LordKnight (a very prominent anime player) writes weekly columns for Shoryuken going over a lot of the basics in short detail, along with 'Action Items' at the end.
  • I should start making these more general so I can just copy/paste them instead of spending 30 minutes typing them out eat time.
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damodar

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Since everyone else has given you a bunch of great resources for general information, I'll just add something that might help when you're getting pressured in the corner. I think one of the initials hurdles for newer players is that they often tend to have an urge to always be doing something. A more cautious approach when you're still getting to grips with things like what your tools are and how to apply them, and also what situations you are at an advantage or disadvantage etc can be helpful. Applying this to your situation, being in the corner is dangerous and you are at a disadvantage. You need to be prepared to just sit back and defend and try and pick the opportune moment to try and escape the situation. Obviously easier said than done and it's going to take time to figure out when and how to try and escape those situations.

But if you've got friends that are decent at the game and understand it, they'd probably be willing to help you. Ask questions or just for general advice while you play with them. I can't speak for them, but it's always more fun to have good competition, so if I can help friends get better etc, I absolutely will.

And yeah, don't place too much importance on winning. Try and take satisfaction from improvement, regardless of the result. Even if you lose a match, maybe you were on point with your anti-air game or maybe you did better with your combo breaking or maybe you recognised something your opponent was doing and you took steps to counter that strategy, forcing them to change their gameplan. Take heart in those achievements, they can often be the most satisfying aspect.

Good luck!

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JohnLocke

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Thanks for all the help duders, its really appreciated. I have had a try on the tutorials and will give them more of a look and will try the single player and just practicing in general online or against my friends. Some really nice advise and thank you all for the tips and tricks you have brought forwards. They are much appreciated and thank you for making me feel not a fool for asking the questions I have.

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blade_r

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#14  Edited By blade_r

Ill be getting KI on XB1 sometime next week and will be a new player too so maybe we could play some matches. I have never played any KI games before so it'll be a new experience for me. I am mainly a MK player and based on what I have heard they play very differently, so yeah, maybe you and I can play some sets when I get the game in the next week or so lol I intend to main Saberwulf :D

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JohnLocke

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@blade_r said:

Ill be getting KI on XB1 sometime next week and will be a new player too so maybe we could play some matches. I have never played any KI games before so it'll be a new experience for me. I am mainly a MK player and based on what I have heard they play very differently, so yeah, maybe you and I can play some sets when I get the game in the next week or so lol I intend to main Saberwulf :D

Sounds good. Send me a PM if you want with your gamertag.

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Tall_Guy

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Play a ton of matches. Don't play ranked until you feel as if you're ready. Honestly, there are a lot of combos to learn, specific counters, etc, but basic familiarity with the game is a requisite to any of that.

Once you feel as if you've hit a wall, go online and read up on how to get better.

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