Oy, I don't know why I'm surprised or bothered by this, but I am...

Capcom to release "Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3":
http://kotaku.com/5823075/ultimate-m...a-budget-price

Basically, they are adding new characters and doing some "balancing", which to me at this point has become nothing more then correcting some gameplay issues/bugs and then attempting to pretend like it's a varation of the engine and worthy of charging more money for...

Ok, I get that they have in the past been pretty famous for releasing "updates" to thier fighting franchises, but in almost every one of those cases (but SF4), those changes were typically a lot larger then an updated roster. I mean, take a look at the jump from SF2:TWW to SF2:CE, or the jump to Turbo, or the even more impressive jump from SSF2 to SSF2T. These games weren't the previous title with a slightly updated roster, they were for the most part profoundly changed games.

Look at what they are doing now though... Unless I missed something, SF4 to SSF4 was just a very small roster update, and then SSF4AE hits, which is exactly the same thing all over again (and all of these were shipping too close to each other in the first place IMHO).

At least with AE they gave you the option of using DLC to add these characters to your existing SSF4... That seems like a fine compromise, but I have to ask... why do they need to release a new disk-based version of these games at all, when it's clearly something they could (and should) be doing via DLC? I mean for cripes sake, MvsC3 already supports and features DLC characters... Why on earth would I need to shell out for a new flavor of that disk (this soon after release) just to add more characters?

The really painful thing here is that, sucker that I am, I'm sure I'll shell out for this, as some of the characters are pretty exicting (and they have as of now, not mentioned a DLC option), but really, what the hell is the point of this? Could they really not have done this via DLC?  
  
The other issue here too is that they released two characters for DLC here already, at $5 a clip... Does that mean that this addition will cost another $60 for the added chars + $60 for the initial game? No, in fact they are releasing it at $40... How does this make any sense with your DLC pricing on the current game? Do you not realize I now feel totally shafted for spending $10 on TWO characters when you're giving us 12 for 40, and including the cost of the game in there?

What happened to you Capcom?... I used to hold you in the highest regard, but this year is just one slap after another. By all means, keep creating new content for SF4 and MvsC3, but for crying out loud, make it an affordable addition to the existing games that you are using as the base; we don't need to rebuy the same damn game three times a year. Especially considering the fact that we still have SF X Tekken headed to us as well... I love SF like a rabid animal, but there is such thing as oversaturation. Capcom should really talk to Harmonix a lil bit... 
 
***Edit/Update - 
SuperflousMoniker (heh, great name btw), gave the following link/info, which I will be the first to admit actually does hold some water here (no pun intended). I can release a little of may anger now, as this really does seem like a reasonable excuse as to why they have done everything on MvsC3 the way that they did. I still think $5 per char was WAy too much, but this at least explains why DLC wasn't supported and why this release is happening.  
 
So, I was going to give them my money anyway, now I'll do it with a little bit less anger. :)

@SuperfluousMoniker said:

There was an article on Joystiq today about the lack of DLC and why they made UMVC3 a disc. TLDR: Tsunami fucked up their dev cycle.

Oy, I don't know why I'm surprised or bothered by this, but I am...

Capcom to release "Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3":
http://kotaku.com/5823075/ultimate-m...a-budget-price

Basically, they are adding new characters and doing some "balancing", which to me at this point has become nothing more then correcting some gameplay issues/bugs and then attempting to pretend like it's a varation of the engine and worthy of charging more money for...

Ok, I get that they have in the past been pretty famous for releasing "updates" to thier fighting franchises, but in almost every one of those cases (but SF4), those changes were typically a lot larger then an updated roster. I mean, take a look at the jump from SF2:TWW to SF2:CE, or the jump to Turbo, or the even more impressive jump from SSF2 to SSF2T. These games weren't the previous title with a slightly updated roster, they were for the most part profoundly changed games.

Look at what they are doing now though... Unless I missed something, SF4 to SSF4 was just a very small roster update, and then SSF4AE hits, which is exactly the same thing all over again (and all of these were shipping too close to each other in the first place IMHO).

At least with AE they gave you the option of using DLC to add these characters to your existing SSF4... That seems like a fine compromise, but I have to ask... why do they need to release a new disk-based version of these games at all, when it's clearly something they could (and should) be doing via DLC? I mean for cripes sake, MvsC3 already supports and features DLC characters... Why on earth would I need to shell out for a new flavor of that disk (this soon after release) just to add more characters?

The really painful thing here is that, sucker that I am, I'm sure I'll shell out for this, as some of the characters are pretty exicting (and they have as of now, not mentioned a DLC option), but really, what the hell is the point of this? Could they really not have done this via DLC?  
  
The other issue here too is that they released two characters for DLC here already, at $5 a clip... Does that mean that this addition will cost another $60 for the added chars + $60 for the initial game? No, in fact they are releasing it at $40... How does this make any sense with your DLC pricing on the current game? Do you not realize I now feel totally shafted for spending $10 on TWO characters when you're giving us 12 for 40, and including the cost of the game in there?

What happened to you Capcom?... I used to hold you in the highest regard, but this year is just one slap after another. By all means, keep creating new content for SF4 and MvsC3, but for crying out loud, make it an affordable addition to the existing games that you are using as the base; we don't need to rebuy the same damn game three times a year. Especially considering the fact that we still have SF X Tekken headed to us as well... I love SF like a rabid animal, but there is such thing as oversaturation. Capcom should really talk to Harmonix a lil bit... 
 
***Edit/Update - 
SuperflousMoniker (heh, great name btw), gave the following link/info, which I will be the first to admit actually does hold some water here (no pun intended). I can release a little of may anger now, as this really does seem like a reasonable excuse as to why they have done everything on MvsC3 the way that they did. I still think $5 per char was WAy too much, but this at least explains why DLC wasn't supported and why this release is happening.  
 
So, I was going to give them my money anyway, now I'll do it with a little bit less anger. :)

@SuperfluousMoniker said:

There was an article on Joystiq today about the lack of DLC and why they made UMVC3 a disc. TLDR: Tsunami fucked up their dev cycle.

Yeah I'm pretty upset about this too, I bought a collectors edition MvC3 when it came out... what am I to do with it now?! I really, really hope they say like 20 bucks here's all this as DLC for people who have MvC3. :(

UMvC3 is likely more an effort to get the name back in circulation again than anything else. The way I hear it, MvC3 was no where near the commercial or cultural blow-out that they though it would be. EVen though this should be DLC, releasing it as an all new game will more likely get more new buyers than DLC will get in people re-buying. And the people who would re-buy will most likely buy used, and Capcom won't get that money. 
 
So yeah, it's a shitty move but I understand the business behind it. 

                UMvC3 is likely more an effort to get the name back in circulation again than anything else. The way I hear it, MvC3 was no where near the commercial or cultural blow-out that they though it would be. EVen though this should be DLC, releasing it as an all new game will more likely get more new buyers than DLC will get in people re-buying. And the people who would re-buy will most likely buy used, and Capcom won't get that money.  So yeah, it's a shitty move but I understand the business behind it. 
           

               

@Noct

: " doing some "balancing", which to me at this point has become nothing more
then correcting some gameplay issues/bugs and then attempting to pretend like
it's a varation of the engine and worthy of charging"  Nerfed X-Facor and TACs are more than alone worth price of admission, imo.  Almost game ruining in vanilla.   The biggest thing that bothers me is that Marvel has never been like Street Fighter or Vampire, the sequel would come out and that's that, save for the rebalanced (and not fun) revision of X-Men vs Street Fighter.  I still think Marvel and people outside the team pressured this onto them in some way.  But then again, considering the average price for characters and stages for fighters, we'd end up paying more for eight total stages and twelve characters, so that with rebalancing (whether you think it's not a big deal or not [protip: it really is]), a new interface and more content, this is a steal.  ----  "Unless I
missed something, SF4 to SSF4 was just a very small roster update, and then
SSF4AE hits, which is exactly the same thing all over again (and all of these
were shipping too close to each other in the first place IMHO)."  Yeah, you missed a lot.
           

@Noct: I give SSF4 more of a pass for NOT being DLC because of a few reasons

1.SF4 was Capcom return to fighting games. It's a risk to plan out a BUNCH of DLC for something that is a risk. It was a risk that paid off. Hell my brother bought it on the fact it was Street Fighter. He doesn't play Fighting games.

2. There are tons of changes to SF4 to SSF4. Big one being the way it handles online. The online modes in SF4 was just one on one nothing else. SSF4 Tournament, Endless Lobby, Team Battles all with Spectator mode. So that had to be all redone. The replay channel and it auto caching your matches. Rebalance is something that can be done with a patch, but the issue is "was SF4 build with all that in there?" Would you want them to patch it every month like MK9 or just once and a while? We can also blame the console makers most the Xbox for shipping units without hard drives because if this DLC came out back then it would have been 1-4GB or so. Both updates for AE are a 1GB for 4 character and costumes with balance stuff, just think of the stuff for 10 characters, new net code, new everything almost. How will Johnny used xbox player get to play with his 256MB get to play? DDDDIISCCC BASED. So they offer AE with a Disc and DLC hazzah they learned their lesson.. then Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 happens....

Now on the UMvC3 and why it sucks it's only disc.

1. They shipped a Beta and charged us 60-70 bucks for it and that's the feeling that sucks the most. If you look at all the fighting games the first one is a beta in a since the beginning. SFAlpha < SFAlpha 2 WAAAAAAAYYYY better. SFIII was horrible 2nd Impact was a step in the right direction and 3rd strike was the right direction. People say that did this to us on the SNES yeah but there were 5 Arcade version of SF2. This was a simple whatever they used replacement on the board for arcade owners. On the SNES there were only 3 versions of SFII. The OG, Turbo and Super. We all knew it was coming but we hoped they were smarter.

2. The hooks were there as seen with Jill and Shuma. SSF4 showed that people cared hell MvC2 showed that people cared. Why didn't you guys have a better plan? Oh because it wasn't finished.

3. SSF4 wasn't really till a year and 2 months after SF4. MvC3 hasn't even celebrated a full year by the time it's out, barely even 9 months.

In the end it sucks they are adding stuff and changes to UMvC3 which can justify a disc but it also JUSTIFIES DLC release because of the past with SF4. So I'm with ya on the DLC release but I know it's not going to happen sadly.

Over saturation isn't Capcom problem because us fighting gamers want MORE. Over saturation happens when there are a ton of mediocre to terrible releases like in 94 I'm looking at you World Heroes and Ranma 1/2 Hard Battle. I was really excited for SSF4 did I care it was "the same game with more characters?" Nope because of the features add, Endless lobbies have been keeping that game alive with my friends and I since it release. I put 90 hours into SF4 but in SSF4 I put over 250 hours in. I got to pick up some old favorites and new characters to my skill set.

You aren't REQUIRED to buy a new version of the game. You can still play MvC3 just not with the new stuff. If you want to new hotness pay up. If you don't then you saved 40 bucks. Me? I'm going to wait for it to hit 20-25 bucks new and just bump off a friend. I have a love and hate relationship with MvC3, so It's a wait and see.

Stop whining. Don't like it? Don't buy it.

               

@Noct: I give SSF4 more of a pass for NOT being DLC because of a few reasons

1.SF4 was Capcom return to fighting games. It's a risk to plan out a BUNCH of DLC for something that is a risk. It was a risk that paid off. Hell my brother bought it on the fact it was Street Fighter. He doesn't play Fighting games.

2. There are tons of changes to SF4 to SSF4. Big one being the way it handles online. The online modes in SF4 was just one on one nothing else. SSF4 Tournament, Endless Lobby, Team Battles all with Spectator mode. So that had to be all redone. The replay channel and it auto caching your matches. Rebalance is something that can be done with a patch, but the issue is "was SF4 build with all that in there?" Would you want them to patch it every month like MK9 or just once and a while? We can also blame the console makers most the Xbox for shipping units without hard drives because if this DLC came out back then it would have been 1-4GB or so. Both updates for AE are a 1GB for 4 character and costumes with balance stuff, just think of the stuff for 10 characters, new net code, new everything almost. How will Johnny used xbox player get to play with his 256MB get to play? DDDDIISCCC BASED. So they offer AE with a Disc and DLC hazzah they learned their lesson.. then Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 happens....

Now on the UMvC3 and why it sucks it's only disc.

1. They shipped a Beta and charged us 60-70 bucks for it and that's the feeling that sucks the most. If you look at all the fighting games the first one is a beta in a since the beginning. SFAlpha < SFAlpha 2 WAAAAAAAYYYY better. SFIII was horrible 2nd Impact was a step in the right direction and 3rd strike was the right direction. People say that did this to us on the SNES yeah but there were 5 Arcade version of SF2. This was a simple whatever they used replacement on the board for arcade owners. On the SNES there were only 3 versions of SFII. The OG, Turbo and Super. We all knew it was coming but we hoped they were smarter.

2. The hooks were there as seen with Jill and Shuma. SSF4 showed that people cared hell MvC2 showed that people cared. Why didn't you guys have a better plan? Oh because it wasn't finished.

3. SSF4 wasn't really till a year and 2 months after SF4. MvC3 hasn't even celebrated a full year by the time it's out, barely even 9 months.

In the end it sucks they are adding stuff and changes to UMvC3 which can justify a disc but it also JUSTIFIES DLC release because of the past with SF4. So I'm with ya on the DLC release but I know it's not going to happen sadly.

Over saturation isn't Capcom problem because us fighting gamers want MORE. Over saturation happens when there are a ton of mediocre to terrible releases like in 94 I'm looking at you World Heroes and Ranma 1/2 Hard Battle. I was really excited for SSF4 did I care it was "the same game with more characters?" Nope because of the features add, Endless lobbies have been keeping that game alive with my friends and I since it release. I put 90 hours into SF4 but in SSF4 I put over 250 hours in. I got to pick up some old favorites and new characters to my skill set.

You aren't REQUIRED to buy a new version of the game. You can still play MvC3 just not with the new stuff. If you want to new hotness pay up. If you don't then you saved 40 bucks. Me? I'm going to wait for it to hit 20-25 bucks new and just bump off a friend. I have a love and hate relationship with MvC3, so It's a wait and see.

           

Stop whining. Don't like it? Don't buy it.

           

@Noct: "Unless I missed something, SF4 to SSF4 was just a very small roster update, and then SSF4AE hits, which is exactly the same thing all over again (and all of these were shipping too close to each other in the first place IMHO)."

Let me start of by saying that I agree completely about UMvC3, It's a shitty shitty move by capcom and I think they are starting to loose their understanding of their fans that they seemed to have just like a year ago.

But yeah, you missed alot.

just the fact that the game went from every character having 1 ultra to now having 2 ultras to choose from before a match changed some match-ups considerably and that alone makes the justification of the disc OK. Also it had all the online upgrades with lobbies and spectator mode and all that stuff.

AND rebalancing of the game since there were 10 new characters added to the roster.

So yeah, I don't think it's fair to call the jump between SF4 to SSF4 just a "small roster update", it was much more than that. Even if it was just a roster update, 10 new characters is not a small number in fighting game standards.

@Noct: We are like abused housewives. LOL Capcom only hits us because he loves us. We should start a support group.

I liked Ranma my cousin and I rented a few times just to see the goofiness of it. Yeah Guitar hero killed it. You think if Rock Band was the only one to make it would it have lasted longer? Probably because they treated at a Platform and not a buy this disc. They can learn alot from Harmonix on that tip. Also it shouldn't be 5 bucks a character. If not let us do a training dummy tryout then if we want them let us buy it. I bought Blazblue and they charging 5 bucks a character and there are 4 of them. Why not bundle for 10 or 15 after they all drop. (it was a slow rollout.) MK9 did it with their DLC pass thing (i guess that's the name) let me pay and you keep feeding me. Hopefully things will get better in the future because we've come a long way from horse armor and the Japanese companies (Looking at you namco) and a few American copies (EA's NFS all cars unlock) have been charging you for Cheats. Remember battlefield BC2 was going to charge for guns people lost their shit.

You made some good points too. The last on MvC3 after we started it for the first time and look at the UI all said "They didn't finish this game or they rushed it out" Now that can't be less than the truth now. :(

Well if you're ever online let's fight in the streets sometimes. XBL = leroy rockwell or PSN leroyrockwell

REALLY!
  

I never understand why people complain about this type of thing. People complained about Super Street Fighter 4 also. There are 12 new characters. The current two DLC characters are 5 dollars a piece. So people would rather pay $60 in DLC characters rather than the $40 its going to cost for this re-balanced game with a new HUD? It's also most likely too hard for them to patch in a new HUD, and the online spectating. While I admit that I would rather have UMvC3 be a download than a new full blow retail disc I can see why it's happening.

Also SSF4 added 10 characters, a rebalance, the bonus games, and a second ultra for every single character. It was well worth $40

There was an article on Joystiq today about the lack of DLC and why they made UMVC3 a disc. TLDR: Tsunami fucked up their dev cycle.

Ok, I get that they have in the past been pretty famous for releasing "updates" to thier fighting franchises, but in almost every one of those cases (but SF4), those changes were typically a lot larger then an updated roster. I mean, take a look at the jump from SF2:TWW to SF2:CE, or the jump to Turbo, or the even more impressive jump from SSF2 to SSF2T. These games weren't the previous title with a slightly updated roster, they were for the most part profoundly changed games. 

For SSF2 felt a lot like the other games before it with slightly different moves and the same with SSF2 Turbo just with another speed boost

"But, as you know, less than a month after the game was released we had the earthquake and tsunami in Japan,"he claimed in a San Diego Comic Con interview.

                   

I never understand why people complain about this type of thing. People complained about Super Street Fighter 4 also. There are 12 new characters. The current two DLC characters are 5 dollars a piece. So people would rather pay $60 in DLC characters rather than the $40 its going to cost for this re-balanced game with a new HUD? It's also most likely too hard for them to patch in a new HUD, and the online spectating. While I admit that I would rather have UMvC3 be a download than a new full blow retail disc I can see why it's happening.

Also SSF4 added 10 characters, a rebalance, the bonus games, and a second ultra for every single character. It was well worth $40

                   

               

                   

@Noct: We are like abused housewives. LOL Capcom only hits us because he loves us. We should start a support group.

I liked Ranma my cousin and I rented a few times just to see the goofiness of it. Yeah Guitar hero killed it. You think if Rock Band was the only one to make it would it have lasted longer? Probably because they treated at a Platform and not a buy this disc. They can learn alot from Harmonix on that tip. Also it shouldn't be 5 bucks a character. If not let us do a training dummy tryout then if we want them let us buy it. I bought Blazblue and they charging 5 bucks a character and there are 4 of them. Why not bundle for 10 or 15 after they all drop. (it was a slow rollout.) MK9 did it with their DLC pass thing (i guess that's the name) let me pay and you keep feeding me. Hopefully things will get better in the future because we've come a long way from horse armor and the Japanese companies (Looking at you namco) and a few American copies (EA's NFS all cars unlock) have been charging you for Cheats. Remember battlefield BC2 was going to charge for guns people lost their shit.

You made some good points too. The last on MvC3 after we started it for the first time and look at the UI all said "They didn't finish this game or they rushed it out" Now that can't be less than the truth now. :(

Well if you're ever online let's fight in the streets sometimes. XBL = leroy rockwell or PSN leroyrockwell

                   

               

                    @agentboolen said:

For SSF2 felt a lot like the other games before it with slightly different moves and the same with SSF2 Turbo just with another speed boost

This is the ignorance that brought down fighting games

                   

               

                    @Noct said:

                    Ok, I get that they have in the
past been pretty famous for releasing "updates" to thier fighting franchises,
but in almost every one of those cases (but SF4), those changes were typically a
lot larger then an updated roster. I mean, take a look at the jump from SF2:TWW
to SF2:CE, or the jump to Turbo, or the even more impressive jump from SSF2 to
SSF2T. These games weren't
the previous title with a slightly updated roster, they were for the most part
profoundly changed games. 

                   

               

I don't know I always felt like those old SF2 updates were really small, I mean CE just gave you 4 new players and allowed you to play the same character vs the same character, Turbo was just a speed boost.  For SSF2 felt a lot like the other games before it with slightly different moves and the same with SSF2 Turbo just with another speed boost.  The simple fact is Capcom ripped us off in the 90's and there thinking were dumb enough to do it to again.  I enjoyed playing SF4 but was bored with the game the 2nd SSF4 came out and the idea of paying $20 for SSF4 AE....  Capcom is just bitch slapping us at this point.

                   

               

                    There was an article on Joystiq today about the lack of DLC and why they made UMVC3 a disc. TLDR: Tsunami fucked up their dev cycle.

                   

               

                    @Noct: Sure maybe I'm not given all the editions of SF2 every tiny bit of credit they might deserve.  The fact is there updates and thats all they were.  I wouldn't give Turbo the number 3 just on the fact that all it was is a update, you don't get new characters, no new backgrounds and very similar gameplay.  Its nice SF2 had the fan base to make that many updates but in the end it did get a little bit ridiculous.  I'd rather Capcom not go down the same exact road with endless updates IMO.