@anklamwolf said:

I suppose it is expected, in this beautiful snowflake age, that with entitlement comes ignorance. Those that cry out for selfish retcon are utterly clueless as to the consequences of their me first attitude.

You know what? Fuck it. Let the precious little bastards ruin what remains of authorial independence. I hope they get EXACTLY what they wish for.

Oh god no no no kill it with fire, nuke from orbit, make it go away!

Also, without any spoilers, can someone perhaps explain why the ending was bad? What category is it? Was it a Gainax ending or was it just plainly poorly written?

@phrosnite said:

@mrsmiley said:

@Octaslash said:

@mrsmiley said:

@seanfoster said:

@phrosnite said:

@GrandHarrier said:

And you know what is also funny about that picture? There are people who think Destroy is paragon and control is renegade. ROFL! Look! It's even colour coded for the dumb ones.

YEAH BUT YOU WERE INDOCTRINATED TO THINK DESTROY WAS THE WRONG CHOICE

...ugh.

Have you not seen the video? There is overwhelming evidence to show that you were indoctrinated. As in, IN GAME evidence. The tree/plants near the beam, the fact that the kid doesn't actually exist, the gunshot wound you receive without getting shot, etc etc etc.

That isn't "evidence". Those are conspiracies of crazy people.

Really. So art assets in the game, as well as dialogue, sounds, characters, etc that all point to this ending (an ending that actually makes sense verses the assumed ending that everyone is bitching about because it DOESN'T make sense), are just made up? I'm pretty sure the dream sequences actually happened in the game. I'm pretty Shepherd getting a wound without getting shot was in the game. I could go on, but it appears that you've already made your decision to believe that Bioware, after their history of incredible writing in Mass Effect and other series, just decided to give up with this one. Ok then.

This theory sounds awesome but I think you are giving Bioware too much credit. I don't think it is true. It would be awesome if it was though. Still, imo the ME games are the best sci-fi thing ever made.

Edit: I too noticed some of the things in that video while playing the game but remembering the shit that Bioware has done with DA2 and stuff I just roll with it. Again... I think that Indoctrination theory is giving Bioware too much credit. I don't think their writers are that good. Remember that Bioware does characters and worlds best not stories.

Btw... at some point in the game didn't the Illusive man say, "A thought is powerfull thing that is hard to destroy" or something like that. But I thought that was an Inception reference :)

For everything Bioware has done so far with the Mass Effect series, I honestly can't give them enough credit. I feel bad for them that so many people are selling them short after the phenomenal work they've done with the Mass Effect universe. This coming from someone who has read every codex entry, and seen the incredible detail that has gone into... well, everything. I don't care what they've done with other games, because there are separate teams working on them. Sure, there's obviously some crossover, but Bioware's Mass Effect team has done a great job, and it wouldn't surprise me at all to see an ending that is this clever, especially after hearing how much they wanted people to remember it. Making a random choice from three options? Not memorable. Making that choice and then realizing that you were indoctrinated the whole time? That's freaking epic. ;)

Mass Effect 3 sales are over 3.5 million. The protesters facebook and charity page numbers about 50,000.

So <1% of people who bought the game are bitching and moaning about it.

The weird part about this is the layers - like an onion. To see the issues you need to peel back the layers and say what layer you wish to discuss if you start talking

1) The outside papery layer of the onion is made of fans of the series who have been extremely committed and have watched as the game has changed. They have been vocal about what was ‘right or wrong’ with the series since the start and have proven to be a very opinionated fan base.

2) The next layer of the onion consists of crazy fringe fans who have gotten rude, attacking Bioware and its employees (even ones unconnected with the project) for months in just going too far. Opinions are one thing screaming and threatening are over the line. That put a bad taste in the developers mouth.

3) The layer of anger about DLC about this game and all games. It is its own discussion because there are many issues to even that subject.

4) The next layer is consists of a biter layer of just fans who are "disappointing" by the ending. Mild, moderate, or extremely disappointing depending on their view of point & mood.

For better or worse I think Bioware sees the constant attacks #1-4 as one thing…one long string of “You’re doing it wrong…!”

Bioware gets to make another DLC to sell by the thousands, the disgruntled and vocal fans who truly bought into the universe and let down by the unsatisfactory resolution or lack thereof are placated. A win-win situation there, why so much uproar in either case?

@Smokey_Earhole said:

Once again, insightful words about this whole retarded mess from someone outside of gaming. I support his point of view wholeheartedly.

This article is kind of what I wanted to say, and it's sad that for all the clamour among gamers about games being "art" they don't seem to understand one of the essential aspects of games being "art". They want respect, and they want exactly what they want out of their art as well. Sad.

@GrandHarrier said:

This just in: Apparently dissatisfied customers not allowed to ask for whatever is making them unhappy to be fixed. Meal wasn't good? Too bad. You get whatever the cook decides to give you. Car was a lemon? Sorry, that was how it was intended by the developer. Stop being so entitled.

This might be a valid point if every copy of the game had shipped with the ending data wiped or a huge scratch on the disc or something. We're not talking about usability or use-value.

You don't get many people saying that they should refilm a different ending to the Sopranos even if they think the cut-to-black ending is stupid.

I understand why people aren't looking at it that way though. Even before the game came out there was a backlash against Bioware/EA's DLC policies, the inclusion of multiplayer and so on and so forth. I think in a lot of people no longer entertain the notion that Bioware are even the slightest bit motivated by artistic integrity.

What is this ridiculous and completely arbitrary notion that Bioware have to pig headedly refuse fan demands to be considered art?

@mrsmiley: Even if they didn't plan this all along but say that this "indocrination theory" is true and that's the explanation it will cement ME as my favourite thing ever forever and ever. We'll wait and see in April :)

Reading a lot of people who say "I haven't played it, but it can't be that bad." Go play 1. Then import to 2, and play 2. Then import to 3, and play 3. Somehow, somewhere in the region of 100+ hours are literally taken apart in 10 minutes.

Mass Effect should be the flagship series for epic story-telling. Look at the reaction its garnered when it doesn't deliver on the promise and past amazing-ness. If BioWare can clarify the ending, provide some more closure, y'know, NOT have a half-assed ending that at best relies on obsessed fans interpreting the ending with almost pathologically deranged scrutiny, or at worst, is a miserable cop-out, then I don't see why they shouldn't.

Much like people say the vast majority of the pro-retcon people are just kind of dicks (and a lot of them are, the number of slashfic-quality endings I've seen proposed make me want to vomit), I'd say that the majority of the "You're entitled" people don't actually give a shit about ME anyway and have no stake in the matter.

I hated the ending to the third Matrix movie, but I didn't sign a petition telling The Wachowskis to film a new ending because I deserved it.

Stop it with the dumb headlines Alex. As soon as I read it, I know it's you. Maybe that's your goal, but try to make them slightly less irritating.

@AlKusanagi said:

@Clonedzero: Because 1. just as many fans don't want or need it, 2. it creates a horrible precedent, 3. it completely nullifies any "games as art" discussion when people can just whine until the creators change their vision and, most importantly, 4. no matter what they put out, there will be just as much bitching.

They could put out dlc that dispenses blowjobs and thousand dollar bills and people would still complain.

1.) they don't have to get it then. optional dlc is optional lolz. 2.) no it doesn't. that precedent has existed for ages (literally). 3.) no it doesn't. art has always been rewritten and changed based on reactions. happens all the time and its happened as long as art has existed. 4.) yeah, lets not make content a large chunk of the fanbase is asking for because some people will still bitch....

way to be a negative nancy, eh?

@acrimsonbullet: You're right, that makes a lot of sense. I think I'm going to go with that being whats really going on.

People keep bringing up Broken Steel - I can't be the only one who found it incredibly lame that they negated your sacrifice(choices). That lethal amounts of radiation suddenly turn into 'Oh look! you just got knocked out for a bit, glad you're ok!'

It. Was. Stupid.

deleted

@phrosnite said:

@mrsmiley: Even if they didn't plan this all along but say that this "indocrination theory" is true and that's the explanation it will cement ME as my favourite thing ever forever and ever. We'll wait and see in April :)

If Bioware took that approach it would solidify my opinion that they have become a lazy developer. Using the "it was all an illusion" plan would just be a cop-out.

Also I still fail to realize how people can't understand why people are demanding a new ending. Developers like Casey Hudson blatantly lied to us even on Giantbomb's own podcast about the endings being varied and diverse. They didn't want to put in the effort to end the series on the high note it deserves and instead saw the possibility to make a few more bucks by selling you a "True" ending. You don't do that in any medium because its bad for business. Raise your standards on what is acceptable and video games will become better overall. Don't say its okay that they either A. Took out the true ending or B. completely disregarded all of the important choices made in previous game when using your Shepard was one of the main features of the series because its their game and they made it. They lied to us and wants us to shut up. Their business practices have the potential to ruin this industry and its scary that no one realizes it.

I'm so fucking sick of hearing about and seeing articles about the Mass Effect 3 ending.

@Nomin said:

Bioware gets to make another DLC to sell by the thousands, the disgruntled and vocal fans who truly bought into the universe and let down by the unsatisfactory resolution or lack thereof are placated. A win-win situation there, why so much uproar in either case?

exactly, i really don't get why ANYONE is against them releasing ending dlc. the upset fans get what they wanted. bioware gets to create and sell more content. the only people who seem to be displeased by this are people sitting ont he sidelines telling people what they should think and how they're right cus they're right. its nuts.

this is one of the most disappointing things I have ever seen, this is just awful and gross.

@Rawson: then dont click on them dumbass...

@Clonedzero said:

@Nomin said:

Bioware gets to make another DLC to sell by the thousands, the disgruntled and vocal fans who truly bought into the universe and let down by the unsatisfactory resolution or lack thereof are placated. A win-win situation there, why so much uproar in either case?

exactly, i really don't get why ANYONE is against them releasing ending dlc. the upset fans get what they wanted. bioware gets to create and sell more content. the only people who seem to be displeased by this are people sitting ont he sidelines telling people what they should think and how they're right cus they're right. its nuts.

You don't see ANYTHING wrong with a company ruining the ending to a franchise you loved for the past five years only to sell you the real ending a few months later? You can't comprehend in ANYWAY how that might piss a lot of people off?

Its simply disgusting.

@Distrato said:

If Bioware took that approach it would solidify my opinion that they have become a lazy developer. Using the "it was all an illusion" plan would just be a cop-out.

Also I still fail to realize how people can't understand why people are demanding a new ending. Developers like Casey Hudson blatantly lied to us even on Giantbomb's own podcast about the endings being varied and diverse. They didn't want to put in the effort to end the series on the high note it deserves and instead saw the possibility to make a few more bucks by selling you a "True" ending. You don't do that in any medium because its bad for business. Raise your standards on what is acceptable and video games will become better overall. Don't say its okay that they either A. Took out the true ending or B. completely disregarded all of the important choices made in previous game when using your Shepard was one of the main features of the series because its their game and they made it. They lied to us and wants us to shut up. Their business practices have the potential to ruin this industry and its scary that no one realizes it.

Oh, as if no other dev lies about the quality of their game pre-release. Give me a break. Don't forget that video game is a business and they need to sell copies.

@Distrato: well if people are ASKING for them to sell them a new ending, then i dont see a problem with it. i doubt they purposely sabotaged the ending to sell "the real one" later on. but if people want a new ending, and bioware is willing to create it for them, i dont see why ANYONE would have a problem with it.

if you dont want the new ending, don't buy the DLC. if you do want it, then get it.

the worst people are the doomsayers that claim if bioware "gives in" then it'll ruin the industry because they have no idea what they're talking about and are generally just making complete asses of themselves.

@Zinc said:

I hated the ending to the third Matrix movie, but I didn't sign a petition telling The Wachowskis to film a new ending because I deserved it.

Of course people don't "deserve" a new ending to ME3, only a few people are actually demanding a new ending for free because "they payed $60 for an incomplete game". What most of us are simply saying, is that they ending was terrible, and as it stands right now we are far less interested in playing any further ME3 DLC, other Mass Effect games or possibly even other Bioware games. We're not 'demanding' a new ending, just saying from a business perspective, if Bioware wants to keeps fans happy and actually wanting to play more Mass Effect content, they should probably do something about it

@phrosnite said:

@Distrato said:

If Bioware took that approach it would solidify my opinion that they have become a lazy developer. Using the "it was all an illusion" plan would just be a cop-out.

Also I still fail to realize how people can't understand why people are demanding a new ending. Developers like Casey Hudson blatantly lied to us even on Giantbomb's own podcast about the endings being varied and diverse. They didn't want to put in the effort to end the series on the high note it deserves and instead saw the possibility to make a few more bucks by selling you a "True" ending. You don't do that in any medium because its bad for business. Raise your standards on what is acceptable and video games will become better overall. Don't say its okay that they either A. Took out the true ending or B. completely disregarded all of the important choices made in previous game when using your Shepard was one of the main features of the series because its their game and they made it. They lied to us and wants us to shut up. Their business practices have the potential to ruin this industry and its scary that no one realizes it.

Oh, as if no other dev lies about the quality of their game pre-release. Give me a break. Don't forget that video game is a business and they need to sell copies.

Of course other devs bend the truth on their quality of their games before release that's not the point. Bioware completely lied about the ending by saying it was going to be this epic moment where the consequences of your choices would be shown and some of your questions would be answered. Also sure developers are out to make money but at what cost? By short changing their fans and censoring what their forum users have to say about their game. Oh lets not forget we are only allowed to give them constructive criticism because they are children and can't handle the anger and outraged they have caused their fans. Its bad business and not the right way to treat the consumers who pay you money for your products.

@Clonedzero: Kind of hard to avoid them when every day a site I read has to put up another article about people being upset over Bioware's sci-fi hentai game.

I wasn't fan of the ending but this has just gotten ridiculous.

@Distrato said:

@Popskinz said:

People have way too much time on their hands to get upset about shit that's irrelevant. Everybody needs to understand that Mass Effect 3's ending is ambiguous and open to interpretation; if you weren't able to extract meaning out of the game's closing moments, then that's your problem and not Bioware's.

TOO DEEP 4 U

Nah dude it was just shitty writing.

I totally agree, anyone who says that the ending was not pure bullshit and full of plot holes did not play the same game i did, there is nothing to interpret at the end of ME3 its just awful.

@Clonedzero said:

@Distrato: well if people are ASKING for them to sell them a new ending, then i dont see a problem with it. i doubt they purposely sabotaged the ending to sell "the real one" later on. but if people want a new ending, and bioware is willing to create it for them, i dont see why ANYONE would have a problem with it.

if you dont want the new ending, don't buy the DLC. if you do want it, then get it.

the worst people are the doomsayers that claim if bioware "gives in" then it'll ruin the industry because they have no idea what they're talking about and are generally just making complete asses of themselves.

Why couldn't they have delivered a decent ending to the series without having me fork over an extra $10? Why couldn't they have used the so called talent and writing skill everyone says Bioware is known for to at least give their fans a logical conclusion to a series they played since 2007?

Yay DLC.

The ending was good. But even the best possible one was incredibly depressing.

I would probably pay for an ending that was less depressing and provided more closure.

But that's as blunt and simple I can put it.

I honestly wonder what the thought process was when they were coming up with those endings, "oh hey guys I just finished Killzone 3 and thought we should copy and paste that shitty ending into ME3, but replace Sev with Shepard and put something for the DLC after the credits"

@SteamPunkJin said:

People keep bringing up Broken Steel - I can't be the only one who found it incredibly lame that they negated your sacrifice(choices). That lethal amounts of radiation suddenly turn into 'Oh look! you just got knocked out for a bit, glad you're ok!'

It. Was. Stupid.

Not as stupid as the fact that in the original version you couldn't use the mutant character to walk in and do it for you. Inexcusable bullshit.

@phrosnite said:

@Distrato said:

If Bioware took that approach it would solidify my opinion that they have become a lazy developer. Using the "it was all an illusion" plan would just be a cop-out.

Also I still fail to realize how people can't understand why people are demanding a new ending. Developers like Casey Hudson blatantly lied to us even on Giantbomb's own podcast about the endings being varied and diverse. They didn't want to put in the effort to end the series on the high note it deserves and instead saw the possibility to make a few more bucks by selling you a "True" ending. You don't do that in any medium because its bad for business. Raise your standards on what is acceptable and video games will become better overall. Don't say its okay that they either A. Took out the true ending or B. completely disregarded all of the important choices made in previous game when using your Shepard was one of the main features of the series because its their game and they made it. They lied to us and wants us to shut up. Their business practices have the potential to ruin this industry and its scary that no one realizes it.

Oh, as if no other dev lies about the quality of their game pre-release. Give me a break. Don't forget that video game is a business and they need to sell copies.

And that somehow makes it okay? More people should be actively called out on the BS. Then shit like this wouldn't get nearly as bad as it did this time.

When I first beat the game I was nonplussed by the ending in terms of its content and how much it made sense, and left with the impression of "oh, is that it?" It was a bummer, but didn't deflate my overall impression of the game (which by the way is tremendous and I wholeheartedly disagree with Jeff's review. I think it's absolutely a 5-star game, and the fetch quests are poorly done but hardly worth damning the entire game for.)

But then I looked up the two endings I didn't get out of curiosity and became pretty depressed to learn just how similar they are. Seriously, compared to how they are explained to you they absolutely blow. I wasn't surprised to hear a lot of people didn't like the endings but I was shocked to hear just how far people were taking their hatred. I laughed at the people who demanded a sunshine and rainbows ending.

And then I started reading up about it all. Forums, google docs, blogs, all sorts of stuff, and it was only after being confronted by the overwhelming amount of evidence of the game's poor ending that I found myself realising they're correct. The last section of the game makes absolutely no sense and I buy the so called 'ID Theory'.

If anyone has a spare 10 minutes (or so) I absolutely recommend reading this: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QT4IUepvrU1pfv_B95oQj0H84DlCTUmzQ_uQh1voTUs/preview?pli=1&sle=true

@Popskinz said:

@tactis said:

@Distrato said:

@Popskinz said:

People have way too much time on their hands to get upset about shit that's irrelevant. Everybody needs to understand that Mass Effect 3's ending is ambiguous and open to interpretation; if you weren't able to extract meaning out of the game's closing moments, then that's your problem and not Bioware's.

TOO DEEP 4 U

Nah dude it was just shitty writing.

I totally agree, anyone who says that the ending was not pure bullshit and full of plot holes did not play the same game i did, there is nothing to interpret at the end of ME3 its just awful.

If you're clever enough to look for subtle nods and winks you'll get it -- too bad everybody needs to have a crystal clear ending drawn on a piece of paper.

Mass Effects ending is almost brilliant, but told in the worst way possible. These "subtle nods" act more like subliminal messages that literally no one noticed because the game is so poorly paced. So stop acting like you're on some higher plane because you "got" the ending, I'm sure you had to have someone else tell you what "really" happened like the rest of us.

@TheHT: (POTENTIAL SPOILER)

Yes. In my game, I romanced Tali. You get a picture of her in your cabin, and you see her face.

@Popskinz said:

@tactis said:

@Distrato said:

@Popskinz said:

People have way too much time on their hands to get upset about shit that's irrelevant. Everybody needs to understand that Mass Effect 3's ending is ambiguous and open to interpretation; if you weren't able to extract meaning out of the game's closing moments, then that's your problem and not Bioware's.

TOO DEEP 4 U

Nah dude it was just shitty writing.

I totally agree, anyone who says that the ending was not pure bullshit and full of plot holes did not play the same game i did, there is nothing to interpret at the end of ME3 its just awful.

If you're clever enough to look for subtle nods and winks you'll get it -- too bad everybody needs to have a crystal clear ending drawn on a piece of paper.

Mass Effects ending is almost brilliant, but told in the worst way possible. These "subtle nods" act more like subliminal messages that literally no one noticed because the game is so poorly paced. So stop acting like you're on some higher plane because you "got" the ending, I'm sure you had to have someone else tell you what "really" happened like the rest of us.

Glad to see they are sticking to their guns at least and that it seems they don't want to actually change then ending. Well, I hope everyone who lit up in nerd-rage will be happy with their spoonful of 'midi-chlorians' now then. *sigh*

@TeflonBilly said:

My feeling about this mess is that they don't have to "fix" the endings or whatever if they can actually defend this triped they've trotted out.

If they're so proud of their ending and ready to defend it, how about taking the time to make an article or video where they break down and explain the metric ton of complaints towards it that are legitimate? Like the sheer amount of nonsensical logic and in-universe inconsistencies that are presented in the last ten minutes of the game. No in-game changes, no DLC. Just a post on their site.

I'd be delighted to hear them just lay out a bottom line exactly WHY the ending is the way it is and respect that as a work of art if you will. I'll accept any ending they released as long as they could defend it, but all they've done since this shitstorm happened is skirt the issue and try to bunker down while plugging their ears going LALALALALALALA.

An ambigious or downer ending could be great. A non-sensical and completely lore breaking one is unacceptable however.

Also, congrats on the cynical snark headline and ending Alex, that wasn't bratty at all.

I agree with this statement.

@phrosnite said:

@Distrato said:

If Bioware took that approach it would solidify my opinion that they have become a lazy developer. Using the "it was all an illusion" plan would just be a cop-out.

Also I still fail to realize how people can't understand why people are demanding a new ending. Developers like Casey Hudson blatantly lied to us even on Giantbomb's own podcast about the endings being varied and diverse. They didn't want to put in the effort to end the series on the high note it deserves and instead saw the possibility to make a few more bucks by selling you a "True" ending. You don't do that in any medium because its bad for business. Raise your standards on what is acceptable and video games will become better overall. Don't say its okay that they either A. Took out the true ending or B. completely disregarded all of the important choices made in previous game when using your Shepard was one of the main features of the series because its their game and they made it. They lied to us and wants us to shut up. Their business practices have the potential to ruin this industry and its scary that no one realizes it.

Oh, as if no other dev lies about the quality of their game pre-release. Give me a break. Don't forget that video game is a business and they need to sell copies.

Doesn't make it okay, and other companies usually don't do it as blatantly as Bioware has been. Some of the stuff they've said isn't open to interpretation. Reminds me of the "auto-attack" feature that was supposedly in the console versions Dragon Age II, and then was going to be a Day One patch, and then... did they ever actually do that? I don't want to touch that game again to find out.

Good job, internet. You really outdid yourself this time. Bioware, you already gave the "fans" a giant fucking middle finger. You could at least keep it up instead of caving to their whining. Bunch of babies all around.

I wasn't among the folk that got enraged about the ending. My reaction was something like: "Huh...". Maybe because I knew to expect a bad ending, I wasn't too disappointed with it. The plot-holes definitely bothered me though - I just couldn't figure why Bioware would've written an ending like that.

I was going to let the whole thing go and just try to forget about it, but if they're really going to add in some content that will explain those plot-hole and provide more closure for my crew and the rest of the galaxy - I'm willing to pay for it and play through the game again. Maybe this time I'll pick up the Prothean DLC character as well.

The cynic in me thinks that this was exactly what Bioware wanted, but I don't really care. Ending is a huge part of a story and if I could get revised endings for other stories (books/movies/games) that I really loved, but which had endings that left a bitter aftertaste in my mouth - I'd probably go for it. I get the Journey > Destination parable, but even if I enjoyed the journey, the destination can definitely diminish my overall enjoyment. If you've watched Top Chef or Masterchef, then you know that dessert is really important part of the meal - that's the thing you'll remember after you're done. And I'd prefer if I could forget the dessert ME3 had prepared for me.

@Milkman: Where exactly did he say they are changing the ending?

It really seems quite pointless to me. The ending was so bad that unless they completely rework the end of the game it won't be worth a purchase. Shitty ending with deeper explanations is still a shitty ending.

A DLC ending is the only thing that makes any sense at this point. Everyone I've heard from, regardless of whether they think it should be changed or not, seems to say they have no interest in other DLC like mission packs or new squadmates. I'm sure Bioware has stuff like that planned out or in the works, but nobody wants it. People who don't think the ending should change are basically a lost cause, Bioware can't do anything to make them want any DLC. On the other hand, they might be able to win over the fans that want a new ending, because they're at least open to that much DLC.

Man, it's BioWare's creation and NO ONE else's. If Pierre were so upset by the game why don't they create a multi game story arc, catering for the multitude of choices and permutations of those choices by millions of people