Thanks for 25'000$ Worth of Abuse - Dirtbags!

So I'm almost lvl 700 in ME3's coop mode. It's my first horde mode coop online multiplayer I've gotten into big time. Guess that explains why I'm still digging it so much. It's a pretty fresh mode for me still, and I enjoy the hell out of it. Another hell, whilst not completely detrimental to the experience (there's some sweetness to this poison), is the pure RNG & redundant rewards the booster packs so frequently give me. It's like Bioware flipping me the bird, for being the dumb asshole that I am, so easily duped by shit-tastic gamedesign - it's frankly okay to be ridiculed for it.

Like I said, I'm like lvl 700 now, and I still got 9 weapons to unlock. 6 legitimate N7 ultra rares and 3 phoney ones from the 'commendation packs'. There's still some character customizations to unlock (hell - I got my 'last to unlock' race/class combination at like lvl 625), some weapon modifactions to upgrade, some equipment pools to increase, some weapons to lvl-up - much of which I don't care for one bit. At least that would be progress though. I want new weapons. I should have fucking earned them all by now - tenfold.

Let's say 50% of the gold unlocks currently are character/class cards. Last session I got 3 Asari Adepts out of 3 Spectre Packs, which give me nothing but XP. Essentially the most useless item I can ever get. Some people say Bioware is tracking my unlocks and 'designed the RNG' to accommodate for my tastes in playstyle. If that is the case, then Bioware thinks I love to get fucked up my unlubed asshole with a rusty pipe. I have a hard time putting into words the hatred I feel towards Bioware for designing the unlock scheme the way they did. What do they expect us players to do, to get access to the full suite of weapons? Pay up? I've earned like 100 Spectre Packs and I got 1 ultra rare out of them? There are 7 ultra rare weapons, each of which can be looted ten times? So to get all the weapons leveled up all the way, getting one ultra rare every 100 packs, I'd have to spend 25'000 USD?

FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE!
FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE!
FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE!
FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE!
FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE!
FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE!
FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE!
FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE!
FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE!
FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE!
FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE!
FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE!
 
tl/dr - at my unlock pace, if I'd pay IRL money, to unlock and lvl-up all weapons, I'd have to pay roughly 25'000 USD (160 Bioware Points are about 2,50$ in Switzerland). Such a thing is a disgrace in any game. Just thinking about it makes me want to quit EA/Bioware games forever. Sons of bitches - that's simply customer abuse. Hell - that kind of statistic would be too much for a Free2Play game, and I bloody paid 80$ for my copy of Mass Effect 3! FUUUUUUUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! It's my new matra, in case you cannot say already.

Thanks for 25'000$ Worth of Abuse - Dirtbags!

So I'm almost lvl 700 in ME3's coop mode. It's my first horde mode coop online multiplayer I've gotten into big time. Guess that explains why I'm still digging it so much. It's a pretty fresh mode for me still, and I enjoy the hell out of it. Another hell, whilst not completely detrimental to the experience (there's some sweetness to this poison), is the pure RNG & redundant rewards the booster packs so frequently give me. It's like Bioware flipping me the bird, for being the dumb asshole that I am, so easily duped by shit-tastic gamedesign - it's frankly okay to be ridiculed for it.

Like I said, I'm like lvl 700 now, and I still got 9 weapons to unlock. 6 legitimate N7 ultra rares and 3 phoney ones from the 'commendation packs'. There's still some character customizations to unlock (hell - I got my 'last to unlock' race/class combination at like lvl 625), some weapon modifactions to upgrade, some equipment pools to increase, some weapons to lvl-up - much of which I don't care for one bit. At least that would be progress though. I want new weapons. I should have fucking earned them all by now - tenfold.

Let's say 50% of the gold unlocks currently are character/class cards. Last session I got 3 Asari Adepts out of 3 Spectre Packs, which give me nothing but XP. Essentially the most useless item I can ever get. Some people say Bioware is tracking my unlocks and 'designed the RNG' to accommodate for my tastes in playstyle. If that is the case, then Bioware thinks I love to get fucked up my unlubed asshole with a rusty pipe. I have a hard time putting into words the hatred I feel towards Bioware for designing the unlock scheme the way they did. What do they expect us players to do, to get access to the full suite of weapons? Pay up? I've earned like 100 Spectre Packs and I got 1 ultra rare out of them? There are 7 ultra rare weapons, each of which can be looted ten times? So to get all the weapons leveled up all the way, getting one ultra rare every 100 packs, I'd have to spend 25'000 USD?

FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE!
FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE!
FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE!
FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE!
FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE!
FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE!
FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE!
FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE!
FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE!
FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE!
FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE!
FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! FUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE!
 
tl/dr - at my unlock pace, if I'd pay IRL money, to unlock and lvl-up all weapons, I'd have to pay roughly 25'000 USD (160 Bioware Points are about 2,50$ in Switzerland). Such a thing is a disgrace in any game. Just thinking about it makes me want to quit EA/Bioware games forever. Sons of bitches - that's simply customer abuse. Hell - that kind of statistic would be too much for a Free2Play game, and I bloody paid 80$ for my copy of Mass Effect 3! FUUUUUUUCK YOU EA/BIOWARE! It's my new matra, in case you cannot say already.

Or, you know, you could just play the game for the enjoyment of it, and not worry about unlocking things that are random.

You complain about the RNG but without it you would of stopped playing weeks ago. You can be angry about it but they have created a great way to get longevity out of their multiplayer. Lost Planet 2 had a similar slots system where you spent credits and it took weeks to get everything. Resident Evil: Operation Raccoon City had the simple "Pay X xp to unlock whatever you want" and after one playthrough of the campaign I had every item I wanted and had no reason to play anymore. Loot lust is a powerful thing.

But yes I agree that they could of handled it better, made it cater to your playstyle, it's bullshit that I keep getting Soldier gear and equipment despite only ever playing an Adept. Something is broken in that regard, however if I had every item I wanted I would no longer be playing.

Or, you know, you could just play the game for the enjoyment of it, and not worry about unlocking things that are random.

You complain about the RNG but without it you would of stopped playing weeks ago. You can be angry about it but they have created a great way to get longevity out of their multiplayer. Lost Planet 2 had a similar slots system where you spent credits and it took weeks to get everything. Resident Evil: Operation Raccoon City had the simple "Pay X xp to unlock whatever you want" and after one playthrough of the campaign I had every item I wanted and had no reason to play anymore. Loot lust is a powerful thing.

But yes I agree that they could of handled it better, made it cater to your playstyle, it's bullshit that I keep getting Soldier gear and equipment despite only ever playing an Adept. Something is broken in that regard, however if I had every item I wanted I would no longer be playing.

@Seppli: It is good game design because it will keep people playing this very simple multiplayer for months just because they want to unlock X weapon.

Is it dirty and on level with Farmville? Yes, yes it is.

You would be so pissed at Valve if you played TF2.

@Seppli: It is good game design because it will keep people playing this very simple multiplayer for months just because they want to unlock X weapon.

Is it dirty and on level with Farmville? Yes, yes it is.

@ThunderSlash

You would be so pissed at Valve if you played TF2.

You really dig too deep, considering the fact that you are playing a ton of EA published roleplaying games. They are really not meant to reward such playstyles so I think the JRPG genre would probably suit you better.

You really dig too deep, considering the fact that you are playing a ton of EA published roleplaying games. They are really not meant to reward such playstyles so I think the JRPG genre would probably suit you better.

@Seppli said:

Seriously - how this doesn't want to make everybody step on somebody's head until it's nothing but pulp, I'll never understand.

I've played Magic: the Gathering for years. I am well aware how it feels to spend hundreds of dollars and never see the one thing I'm trying to get. At least this game gives you the option to acquire these things without spending real money. I think that is a big difference, and why it's not worth getting super pissed off about. Similar things happen all the time in all sorts of RPGs, especially MMOs. Rolling against your entire raid for an item with a 0.05% drop chance -- you could run that raid a hundred times and never get the item you want.

@Seppli said:

@Grissefar said:

You really dig too deep, considering the fact that you are playing a ton of EA published roleplaying games. They are really not meant to reward such playstyles so I think the JRPG genre would probably suit you better.

I do not understand your meaning. Elaborate. You say western RPGs/western games in general, do not reward players by design? That time spent, success, etc. - doesn't 'EARN' me unlocks in a reasonable fashion? You must be kidding yourself. Mass Effect 3 is the first game to do 'pure RNG' in this manner. Even Bioware's own SW:TOR had additional 'currency' pay-outs, which guarantuee sought for rewards in time. Oh - and it was RNG which killed SW:TOR for me.

You take your games to the extreme in a way the western RPG was never designed to accomodate. They are meant to be casual in nature and so attempts at in depth analysis or hardcore playstyle will be pointless since the skill cap is deliberately low.

@Seppli said:

@Vorbis said:

@Seppli: It is good game design because it will keep people playing this very simple multiplayer for months just because they want to unlock X weapon.

Is it dirty and on level with Farmville? Yes, yes it is.

Your definition of 'good gamedesign' is frankly retarded. Especially in the context of a premium paid game. I've played games for years (World of Warcraft literally with 'played' beyond a year's worth), all of them rewarded by design mostly, and not by pure chance. Or were just great games in general.

My mistake I meant "good business design".

However I find it hard to believe you raided during your time with WoW, every loot drop is "chance", just like ME3 multiplayer you can play WoW for months and raid the same dungeon every week without ever getting the item you want. For gods sake WoW even has a dungeon lock system to stop you constantly farming, you have one chance a week before it resets. Ask a Vanilla raider how many times they saw Ashkandi drop during their several months of farming, it's the same shit with the Black Widow on ME3.

Good business design is creating shitty multiplayer and getting people to play it for months, even spending real money on it. You may dislike it but both games are designed to keep you playing, not to reward you for your efforts.

@Seppli said:

Seriously - how this doesn't want to make everybody step on somebody's head until it's nothing but pulp, I'll never understand.

I've played Magic: the Gathering for years. I am well aware how it feels to spend hundreds of dollars and never see the one thing I'm trying to get. At least this game gives you the option to acquire these things without spending real money. I think that is a big difference, and why it's not worth getting super pissed off about. Similar things happen all the time in all sorts of RPGs, especially MMOs. Rolling against your entire raid for an item with a 0.05% drop chance -- you could run that raid a hundred times and never get the item you want.

... That's your tipping point? That the random weapon packs in the multiplayer mode don't drop the best weapons? That's what's causing you to get spastic and rage? Are you a fucking crazy person?

@Seppli said:

@Brodehouse said:

... That's your tipping point? That the random weapon packs in the multiplayer mode don't drop the best weapons? That's what's causing you to get spastic and rage? Are you a fucking crazy person?

Free2Play mechanics in a Pay2Play Premium game? At the cost of a properly designed unlock scheme, we get gouged, for 25'000$? What other than that was the purest evil ever seen in gaming to date? I am one of the few sane one, seeing impending doom looming over us. A bad ending is a bad ending. Shit happens.

This unlock scheme was deliberately made to SUCK THE LIFE/MONEY out of us. Like it was Free2Play. Kill it! Kill it dead. That's the only sane response to give.

No, the unlock scheme wasn't designed for a crazy person to try to get every last thing and pump it up as far as it will go. There are plenty of games that have ridiculous time sinks and the solution is to stop playing them, not keep playing them while losing your mind like a fucking psychopath. Listen to yourself.

It is April 1st, though. Hrm.

@Seppli said:

@Vorbis said:

@Seppli: It is good game design because it will keep people playing this very simple multiplayer for months just because they want to unlock X weapon.

Is it dirty and on level with Farmville? Yes, yes it is.

Your definition of 'good gamedesign' is frankly retarded. Especially in the context of a premium paid game. I've played games for years (World of Warcraft literally with 'played' beyond a year's worth), all of them rewarded by design mostly, and not by pure chance. Or were just great games in general.

My mistake I meant "good business design".

However I find it hard to believe you raided during your time with WoW, every loot drop is "chance", just like ME3 multiplayer you can play WoW for months and raid the same dungeon every week without ever getting the item you want. For gods sake WoW even has a dungeon lock system to stop you constantly farming, you have one chance a week before it resets. Ask a Vanilla raider how many times they saw Ashkandi drop during their several months of farming, it's the same shit with the Black Widow on ME3.

Good business design is creating shitty multiplayer and getting people to play it for months, even spending real money on it. You may dislike it but both games are designed to keep you playing, not to reward you for your efforts.

@Seppli said:

@Brodehouse said:

... That's your tipping point? That the random weapon packs in the multiplayer mode don't drop the best weapons? That's what's causing you to get spastic and rage? Are you a fucking crazy person?

Free2Play mechanics in a Pay2Play Premium game? At the cost of a properly designed unlock scheme, we get gouged, for 25'000$? What other than that was the purest evil ever seen in gaming to date? I am one of the few sane one, seeing impending doom looming over us. A bad ending is a bad ending. Shit happens.

This unlock scheme was deliberately made to SUCK THE LIFE/MONEY out of us. Like it was Free2Play. Kill it! Kill it dead. That's the only sane response to give.

No, the unlock scheme wasn't designed for a crazy person to try to get every last thing and pump it up as far as it will go. There are plenty of games that have ridiculous time sinks and the solution is to stop playing them, not keep playing them while losing your mind like a fucking psychopath. Listen to yourself.

It is April 1st, though. Hrm.

*gets to level 700*

*this game is the fucking worst*

@Seppli: You openly said in your very first post that there are only a handful of ultra-rare items left in the game that you have yet to obtain. How many hours of gameplay did you get out of ME3's co-op before you started to get nothing but useless and redundant items? This is the nature of random loot. In the beginning it makes things more exciting, hoping to get something that's more awesome than what you already have. As you eventually collect all the various items that are available, however, the chances of getting something you don't already have gets slimmer and slimmer.

You knew this going in -- they did not jump you with this information, they were up front about it. When you go to buy a Spectre pack, it tells you "there is a chance to get a rare item", not "there is a chance to get a rare item that you don't already have." This is how it works in every collectible card game ever, it's not like this is a new concept. A lot of your hang-ups seem to be focusing on the fact that you can -- if you choose -- buy these booster packs with real money. Thing is, nobody is forcing you to spend real money to buy them -- you can just play the game and buy them with credits.

And that brings us to the real heart of the matter: If these ultra-rare items are absolutely necessary to have for your enjoyment of the game, why didn't you stop playing a long time ago? The answer is simple: Either they're not necessary, and you should just enjoy the game -- and all the loot you've already gotten along the way -- and not worry about getting the last handful of guns; or they are necessary and you've wasted an incredible amount of your time -- and that is not BioWare's fault, it's yours, because as stated, they were up front about how the loot works in this game.

Also, you can complain about how it's poor game design because they aren't rewarding you for your efforts, but that's bullshit. Loot is one of the things that you get from playing missions, the other is experience points. You level up your classes, you get skill points to assign as your reward for doing so. It is a two-pronged reward structure, where one half is random and the other is guaranteed. It is only natural that you will complete the guaranteed side of the equation first and max out the levels of all your classes while chasing after the random loot -- that does not invalidate it as a form of reward.

Mainstream gaming is going to a bad place. Seems like nothing is off-limits anymore.

@Seppli said:

@EchoEcho: I do not contest that there's a sweetness to a pure RNG unlock scheme and some (unhealthy) motivation derived from it. I'm not begudging the time I spent with the game, since I do enjoy the gameplay. That's entirely besides the point. The point being that this specific unlock scheme, namely pure RNG & lots of redundant rewards (as found in ever TCG) has no place in a pay2play premium game. Do you pay 80$ to obtain a license to play Magic the Gathering? You surely do not. There is no precedent for it. It's the first time somebody did it. Just because it is known, and EA/Bioware is upfront about it, doesn't change the fact that it's simply wrong. If I want to play with a specific gun, there has to be a reasonable and feasible way to obtain it with gameplay. Hell - Battlefield 3 lets you buy 'all unlocks' for 25 bucks since the last patch. A game with an incredible amount of unlocks and a clear path of progression (and it's not grindy at that). I'm still far from having unlocked every weapon attachment. If I'd want to unlock everything in ME3's coop with it's scheme, I'd be out of 25'000 USD or half a year's worth of gameplay. It's outrageous. It's simply put EVIL. WRONG. FUCKED UP. Only rotten dicks and rancid cunts would go through with such a thing. And we, the gaming consumers, are the worst pussies to ever walk the planet. All the muck this generated is limited to a handful of forum threads and some comments on podcasts. Nobody takes Mass Effect 3 seriously enough to get angry about this. Where does it end? I cannot sit idly by and let this one slide without making my fears and frustration known. It's extremely lazy and poor gamedesign. No thought put into pacing rewards, into how to unfold the game's depth, how to teach mechanics and so forth. Having a clear and sensible progression. It's all random luck. Some dude might get a Black Widow out of his first Spectre Pack and dish out double DPS than everybody else. How is that right? It's not. I played the game more. I'm owed a progression which rewards me fairly for my efforts and time spent. I deserve a Black Widow way more than that random lucky asshole that gets it right away. It must never be a game of pure chance. Luck is not gamedesign. It's gambling and it's for stupid assholes.

You're being really wierd man. There's got to be bigger things in your life to be angry about.

@Seppli said:

@EchoEcho: I do not contest that there's a sweetness to a pure RNG unlock scheme and some (unhealthy) motivation derived from it. I'm not begudging the time I spent with the game, since I do enjoy the gameplay. That's entirely besides the point. The point being that this specific unlock scheme, namely pure RNG & lots of redundant rewards (as found in ever TCG) has no place in a pay2play premium game. Do you pay 80$ to obtain a license to play Magic the Gathering? You surely do not. There is no precedent for it. It's the first time somebody did it. Just because it is known, and EA/Bioware is upfront about it, doesn't change the fact that it's simply wrong. If I want to play with a specific gun, there has to be a reasonable and feasible way to obtain it with gameplay. Hell - Battlefield 3 lets you buy 'all unlocks' for 25 bucks since the last patch. A game with an incredible amount of unlocks and a clear path of progression (and it's not grindy at that). I'm still far from having unlocked every weapon attachment. If I'd want to unlock everything in ME3's coop with it's scheme, I'd be out of 25'000 USD or half a year's worth of gameplay. It's outrageous. It's simply put EVIL. WRONG. FUCKED UP. Only rotten dicks and rancid cunts would go through with such a thing. And we, the gaming consumers, are the worst pussies to ever walk the planet. All the muck this generated is limited to a handful of forum threads and some comments on podcasts. Nobody takes Mass Effect 3 seriously enough to get angry about this. Where does it end? I cannot sit idly by and let this one slide without making my fears and frustration known. It's extremely lazy and poor gamedesign. No thought put into pacing rewards, into how to unfold the game's depth, how to teach mechanics and so forth. Having a clear and sensible progression. It's all random luck. Some dude might get a Black Widow out of his first Spectre Pack and dish out double DPS than everybody else. How is that right? It's not. I played the game more. I'm owed a progression which rewards me fairly for my efforts and time spent. I deserve a Black Widow way more than that random lucky asshole that gets it right away. It must never be a game of pure chance. Luck is not gamedesign. It's gambling and it's for stupid assholes.

You're being really wierd man. There's got to be bigger things in your life to be angry about.

As a guy with 1000 hours in TF 2 and still drawing only shit drops, I don't really care about the stuff I get in this game.

On a side note: I don't think I have gotten this much value out of my Xbox LIVE gold account in the 3 years I have had it. Online is actually fun!

@Seppli: ME3 is doing something very specific with it's multiplayer, and for that multiplayer I think random loot works just fine. It's a cooperative, wave-based shooter experience with a leveling system. It's very simple at its core, and it's not a competitive experience. Realistically, it shares more in common with loot grind games like Dungeon Defenders than with a competitive shooter like Battlefield. EA is not going to start implementing random loot (aside from cosmetic perhaps) in franchises like Battlefield because it wouldn't make sense, nothing about the game design supports it, and they know that if they change the game to support it then customers will stop buying it.

I'm not going to make a fuss about it in ME3 because I quite frankly don't give a shit. It is a perfectly valid system for a game like this, in my opinion. If they tried to put it into Battlefield, or started locking the random loot in games like ME3 behind a mandatory paywall, then you're damn right I'd cry foul. But I feel no need to put my foot down here and now, because in this context I disagree that it is abusive or exploitative (except to people with more money than sense, but then it's their own fault).

You may not think "luck" has any place in game design, but thousands of games over hundreds of years would beg to differ -- everything from Solitaire to Diablo to Dungeons & Dragons, where luck governs every roll of the die. A game design decision is not necessarily universally wrong because you don't personally like it, and potential for abuse is not a reason to jump all over a game that is not actually abusing anyone.

As for an $80 license to play M:tG -- no, I didn't have to pay that. But nothing is free in M:tG -- it is a pay-to-play game. You don't buy your first deck and then earn fake money by playing matches, which you then turn around and cash in for booster packs. You want something to improve your gameplay, or just something new to try out, you pay for it. You pay for every single starter deck, every single booster pack, every single chance to get any card you might want.

With ME3, you paid $80 and got yourself a 30-plus-hour single player experience and a multiplayer mode that you've played the hell out of and enjoyed. You got all but nine of the rarest items in the game, from booster packs that you didn't have to pay extra for, unless you wanted to. All these things considered, I think it's safe to say you got your money's worth out of ME3 at the $80 price point. While it might be incredibly frustrating that you can't get your hands on a Black Widow (or insert gun name here) it hasn't invalidated all the fun you've had.

@Seppli said:

I'm owed

Nope :D

It's the foundation of western RPG loot design including Diablo and many MMO's. You grind for hours and days and sometimes never end up seeing the drop you want. That's the magic of RNG. In the case of an MMO you even have to pay monthly just for the right to not get the item you're looking for.

And of course you don't pay $80 for a license to play Magic the Gathering. Magic the Gathering doesn't include a 30-hour epic single-player RPG campaign with hours of voice-acting and cut-scenes. That argument only makes sense if you bought ME3 solely for the multi-player and didn't touch the single-player at all and if that's the case, wtf are you doing?

You may love their game design, you may hate their game design, but there's nothing wrong with their rewards system. RNG has been around for decades. The only difference is that in ME3 you can pay Bioware directly instead of lurking around shady websites trying to buy SoJ's. Blizzard gets it, they're adding an RMAH to Diablo III.

So I sympathize with you OP because at lvl 150ish I'm starting to notice the redundancy of loot I'm receiving. Cant even imagine N7 500+. I've thought about this and I think 3 really simple changes will fix the whole problem (while keeping it the money machine Bioware wants it to be):

• Experience converted to credits when you use level 20 characters (neuter the exchange rate if you have to or whatever, but gaining tons of experience points on my level 20 is getting old and disappointing)
• No more race/class combination unlocks if you already own all the appearance options (if I stop getting gun upgrades at 10X, why should I still get class unlocks? remove the experience bonus for these as no one cares about them)
• Money bonus for being extracted on round 11. As of now, players will only do their best up to completing the mission on wave 10 (since no money is gained afterward).

I'm fine with 99% of the loot system and I understand they had to add fluff to the loot so we crave the rarer stuff more but some of it is totally time-wasting and rewardless and that makes people want to stop playing. Give the max level players a little more money and remove the heinous junk and we'll have a great system. I can't wait for new maps as DLC because I think Mass Effect 3 has the best 'horde mode' of any game and it's not because of its gameplay features, but rather because of the customization and enemy variety.

the most useless item you can get is point reset IMO

so far it's useful only if you got that minus skill point bug after promotion

how is it worth $25,000 if you don't have to buy anything?

The game has been out, what, two weeks?  I've played CoD and Battlefield and several other multiplayer games for well over a year each.  They're just trying to give the game replay value, which I think is a good thing. 
 
@Icil said:

• Experience converted to credits when you use level 20 characters (neuter the exchange rate if you have to or whatever, but gaining tons of experience points on my level 20 is getting old and disappointing)
• No more race/class combination unlocks if you already own all the appearance options (if I stop getting gun upgrades at 10X, why should I still get class unlocks? remove the experience bonus for these as no one cares about them)
• Money bonus for being extracted on round 11. As of now, players will only do their best up to completing the mission on wave 10 (since no money is gained afterward).

Did you ever consider that maybe Bioware didn't want every player to have every unlockable possible?

@Seppli said:

I'm owed

Nope :D

It's the foundation of western RPG loot design including Diablo and many MMO's. You grind for hours and days and sometimes never end up seeing the drop you want. That's the magic of RNG. In the case of an MMO you even have to pay monthly just for the right to not get the item you're looking for.

And of course you don't pay $80 for a license to play Magic the Gathering. Magic the Gathering doesn't include a 30-hour epic single-player RPG campaign with hours of voice-acting and cut-scenes. That argument only makes sense if you bought ME3 solely for the multi-player and didn't touch the single-player at all and if that's the case, wtf are you doing?

You may love their game design, you may hate their game design, but there's nothing wrong with their rewards system. RNG has been around for decades. The only difference is that in ME3 you can pay Bioware directly instead of lurking around shady websites trying to buy SoJ's. Blizzard gets it, they're adding an RMAH to Diablo III.

@Cataphract1014

how is it worth $25,000 if you don't have to buy anything?

@MB

Did you ever consider that maybe Bioware didn't want every player to have every unlockable possible?

After 8 hours of that co-op with no character unlocks I said fuck it and put it up.

@Seppli said:

@Vorbis said:

@Seppli: It is good game design because it will keep people playing this very simple multiplayer for months just because they want to unlock X weapon.

Is it dirty and on level with Farmville? Yes, yes it is.

Your definition of 'good gamedesign' is frankly retarded. Especially in the context of a premium paid game. I've played games for years (World of Warcraft literally with 'played' beyond a year's worth), all of them rewarded by design mostly, and not by pure chance. Or were just great games in general.

@ThunderSlash

said:

You would be so pissed at Valve if you played TF2.

Why exactly? Do you even know how ME3's unlock system works? It's pure RNG & allows for redundant rewards indefinitely. It's not like buying hats or 'timesavers/shortcut' DLC. It's not like quests for unlocks. It's not like anything ever done before. You could spend 1'000'000 dollars on it and still not have everything unlocked. Quite certain Valve sells 'Hats & Shit', and not a 'random chance for a rusty pipe up your unlubed asshole' like Bioware. Seriously - how their unlock scheme doesn't want to make everybody step on somebody-Bioware's head until it's nothing but pulp, I'll never understand.

It is "good game design" if by "good," you mean addicting. The goal of any Publisher is to release a game that people are so addicted to, they won't sell it to a used shop, thus limiting the used market.

Plenty of games have done this, and it's the cornerstone of the Free 2 Play market.

Let's get real, though. Sure, I could spend THOUSANDS of dollars on Tiny Tower, which also has random unlocks in the form of businesses and tenants. Even if I get every business and dream job for everyone in the tower, though, ultimately what's the point?

This issue here isn't with Bioware, it's with you and how you've been approaching this game. What's the point of getting all of the weapons? You say you'll be happy once you get everything, but I don't believe you. Even if you do get a brand new weapon, how will that affect you at all? You'll try it once, and you'll decide it's either a) crappy compared to your preferred weapons, or b) better than what you have, even though what you have has already gotten you through 700 levels. If it's b), you start using it and you can kill things just slightly more efficiently, making the game less challenging, and ultimately making it more boring.

Just take a break, man. You obviously have an addictive personality, and this frustration you're experiencing has happened a billion times over in places like Las Vegas. You should be happy you're not actually out any money, at least. If you HAD spent $25,000, you'd have a reason to be upset. If you're going to go and get yourself upset over hypothetical situations, just turn in your Man Card now because you've officially turned into my ex-girlfriend.

I think it's crazy, but it's also a bit of an odd thing to complain about.

Buying cheats in general is lame.

@Seppli said:

@Brodehouse said:

@Seppli said:

@Brodehouse said:

... That's your tipping point? That the random weapon packs in the multiplayer mode don't drop the best weapons? That's what's causing you to get spastic and rage? Are you a fucking crazy person?

Free2Play mechanics in a Pay2Play Premium game? At the cost of a properly designed unlock scheme, we get gouged, for 25'000$? What other than that was the purest evil ever seen in gaming to date? I am one of the few sane one, seeing impending doom looming over us. A bad ending is a bad ending. Shit happens.

This unlock scheme was deliberately made to SUCK THE LIFE/MONEY out of us. Like it was Free2Play. Kill it! Kill it dead. That's the only sane response to give.

No, the unlock scheme wasn't designed for a crazy person to try to get every last thing and pump it up as far as it will go. There are plenty of games that have ridiculous time sinks and the solution is to stop playing them, not keep playing them while losing your mind like a fucking psychopath. Listen to yourself.

It is April 1st, though. Hrm.

Oh yes? Tell me of any other online multiplayer game withholding content as randomly and stubbornly as Mass Effect 3's coop mode? You'd be hard pressed to even find a legitimate Free2Play game as shit-tasticly unfair. It's like unlocking cars in Need for Speed with IRL-money, but instead of buying the car I want, I buy a lotterie ticket with a chance to get the car I want - and a much higher chance of getting something I don't want, or already have. This sucks more than anything ever. It's foul and evil and fucked up. If games trained me to think one way, then it's to root out evil and stomp it out. To kill it dead. If ever there was evil in gamedesign, this is it. Not even arcade coin-grave gamedesign was as despicable.

...So you're saying it's like a lottery, and as a result it's the worst thing ever.

Aside from the lottery.

...Because it's a lottery.

...and that's a concept that's existed in some form for thousands of years that you have the choice to participate in or not participate in.

(Exaggerate much?)

You are upset they that put microtransactions in a game with RNG based rewards. We get it. Don't spend any money on the game and you have nothing to worry about.

I got a friend that got the Javelin and the Black Widow in the same day. It is what it is.

Either stop playing the game if you are this crazy about it, or just shut up.

@Seppli said:

@StarvingGamer said:

@Seppli said:

I'm owed

Nope :D

It's the foundation of western RPG loot design including Diablo and many MMO's. You grind for hours and days and sometimes never end up seeing the drop you want. That's the magic of RNG. In the case of an MMO you even have to pay monthly just for the right to not get the item you're looking for.

And of course you don't pay $80 for a license to play Magic the Gathering. Magic the Gathering doesn't include a 30-hour epic single-player RPG campaign with hours of voice-acting and cut-scenes. That argument only makes sense if you bought ME3 solely for the multi-player and didn't touch the single-player at all and if that's the case, wtf are you doing?

You may love their game design, you may hate their game design, but there's nothing wrong with their rewards system. RNG has been around for decades. The only difference is that in ME3 you can pay Bioware directly instead of lurking around shady websites trying to buy SoJ's. Blizzard gets it, they're adding an RMAH to Diablo III.

First of all, ME3's coop mode is a moot comparison to the likes of fully fleshed out MMOs and Diablo 3, which are all about character progression. Guns and classes add gameplay depth and variety, and are not mere statistical progression. Blizzard took runes out of the loot system for some reason. Likely because gameplay depth and progression should not be a matter of RNG, but of intentful design.

In Diablo 3's IRL money auction house, will you buy a giftwrapped item for 2 bucks a pop, without knowing what you're paying for? Likely not, you are not a gambling man and stupid to boot. That's what ME3's MP progression system is about. For a chance to gouge the deviant gamblers and retarded folk out of their money, they fuck over honest paying customers like me out of a fair and balanced and well-designed progression system. I paid 80$ for a full game and its full gameplay depth, not to gain access to just another venue for them to gouge my money.

Well your Diablo 3 comparison certainly has stepped into Apples to Chimpanzees territory. A more apt comparison would be buying gold on the RMAH to spend on the random magic items vendor. Of course these are going to be two separate economies, but I imagine the really valuable rare items (akin to the N7 weapons you have failed to yet acquire) will go for tens, hundreds, or possibly even thousands of dollars if someone manages to find a drop with perfect stats. Actually the RNG in Diablo is even more fucked, because even if you manage to get one of those one-in-a-thousand drops, the stats are so randomized that there's still a really good chance the item is going to be a piece of crap.

So are you actually saying that you paid $80 solely for ME3's multiplayer? Or are you complaining that what amounts to a bonus mode is lacking the depth of a full retail product (although the loot models are exactly the same except Blizzard is giving us even MORE ways to spend real money in D3)?

You are upset they that put microtransactions in a game with RNG based rewards. We get it. Don't spend any money on the game and you have nothing to worry about.

I got a friend that got the Javelin and the Black Widow in the same day. It is what it is.

Either stop playing the game if you are this crazy about it, or just shut up.

The randomness is a better option because it avoids the Black Ops problem of just unlocking the 5 things you want and then never playing again. Also more money in EA's pocket.

The randomness is a better option because it avoids the Black Ops problem of just unlocking the 5 things you want and then never playing again. Also more money in EA's pocket.

Now you're just being dramatic. "Crime of its design" - seriously dude? Sorry but the distinct lack of people supporting your position should be a clue that maybe you're being unreasonable.

*gets to level 700*

*this game is the fucking worst*

Now you're just being dramatic. "Crime of its design" - seriously dude? Sorry but the distinct lack of people supporting your position should be a clue that maybe you're being unreasonable.

@MethodMan008 said:

*gets to level 700*

*this game is the fucking worst*

Scumbag Seppli

How many hours of gameplay did it take you to get to level 700 anyway? I only played the multiplayer demo, when I bought the game I just played through the campaign.