@squirrelnacho said:

Edit - I guess this could be moved to the game's forum.

So done.

Wasn't there a news story earlier about how Remedy was saying that they liked the direction that Rockstar took with the sequel? This is why I can't believe anything that anyone reports.

Well, I guess it's possible they liked it but would have done things differently. Judging from the quick look, I can definitely see a Remedy Max Payne 3 being vastly different (and better).

@Humanity said:

@SeriouslyNow: yah but they have fun and varied gameplay mechanics to back it up - Alan Wake wasn't extremely fun or interesting in it's combat mechanics, and they didn't change one bit throughout the entire game.

Alan Wake is an award winning game. It had some shortcomings in retrospect. I've been saying that all along. That doesn't mean that Remedy should be causally dismissed. Rockstar games often have shortcomings, even GTA IV gets pretty boring and repetitive pretty quickly, let alone the incessant phone calls as part of the game's dating sim aspect. That doesn't mean that Rockstar should be casually dismissed.

This is one of those threads, where people who don't like the fact that Rockstar took over the game can come and take words out of context to try and justify to themselves why they won't buy the game. That's all this is.

Maybe people would have preferred if Max had stayed dead and buried with the previous console era, I guess? Remedy was probably never going to go back to it even if they could. They're doing interesting stuff with Alan Wake, even if the combat in that is...not it's best feature.

Alot of games have Rockstar's style of writing?

What games? I don't think any other games really even come close to mimicking they're writing style. It's very much it's own thing. I think that's the major reason why people come back to their games every year. The storytelling is always great.

Can we all just play the game before we start judging it so harshly?

Honestly... if this game ditches the dream sequences... I want this game MORE! I loved MP1 and MP2, but those parts were, for me, just sooooooo lame.

Rockstar's writing is done by alot of games?

Which games? They're writing is the greatest aspect about their games. What other games are doing it like them?

Not sure I'm seeing where all these games are with Rockstar's style. Unless you simply mean their games. Of which there has been two this entire generation.

I don't doubt a different developer might have made a different game, but Take-Two has had the Max Payne IP since 2002, so that's hasn't really been an option for a while now.

Besides, despite the differences, the game is pretty good.

I would recommend that Remedy not throw stones around their own glass house.

I just want to say that the people saying this type of writing isn't done that much, two words: Kane and Lynch. MP3 is literally like a good guy version of K&L. I say this after playing the first five chapters. Maybe something will drastically change somewhere within. But seriously, it's pretty good, but it's nothing unique. It's Man on Fire + Michael Mann + GTA + Kane & Lynch. Unfortunately, there's almost zero Max Payne. Really have mixed feelings so far.

The game itself looks cool but it would have been interesting to see what Remedy did.

Kane and Lynch doesn't equal "alot", though. I don't think their writing, and style of doing crime dramas, isn't prevalent. If it were, we'd have better storytelling overall in games. But, we don't. Storytelling pretty much blows in games, and the exceptions are really standouts. I also think if more people were writing like Rockstar, then they'd be screwed. The storytelling seems to me to be the biggest reason people come to Rockstar every year. Be it GTAIV, Red Dead Rdemption, or L.A. Noire.

Speaking about the game itself, though, does it change much from the beginning, though? I only saw up to after the club scene, and thought there was still good Noir/Max stuff there. I don't know if they'll go off the rails from what they've setup though, so can't speak much to that.

Personally, I'm happy to see Remedy on Alan Wake. I'm digging what they're doing there, and trust Rockstar enough on the outset with Max. Still have alot to see, but I thought it was a good start.

HEY LET ME PULL ONE QUOTE OUT OF CONTEXT AND USE IT AGAINST A GAME THAT IS CATCHING FLAK BECAUSE PEOPLE HATE THINGS BEING DIFFERENT EIGHT YEARS LATER

Sorry, I'm done now.

The game itself looks cool but it would have been interesting to see what Remedy did.

Overall it's just a good game that isn't particularly remarkable in any way other than it has the Max Payne name slapped on it. I'd leave it at that.

I'm not the biggest Max Payne fan, but I do love the way Rockstar makes games and tells stories. It may not be a Rememdy game, but Rockstar isn't a slouch when it comes to telling a story.

I fucking can't stand blurring effect in cutscenes. I can feel my eye straining every time it does it and it gives me a headache, it would be okay if they did it once in a while, but they do it constantly and for no good reason.

@PrivateIronTFU said:

This is one of those threads..

Remedy said they would have made different choices, this is true. It's also true that it's a very Rockstar styled game. Nothing was taken out of context. Nice try though. Who said someone wouldn't buy a game? Many people will, when it's marked 75% off. There's nothing wrong with people discussing how a game would be different.

The video effects are nice. I like it, as well as the highlighted text from Max's monologues.

Fictionally...one could probably argue that the effects are mostly occurring because Max is drunk, high on oxy, or in this violent vision where he's ready to kill anything that moves.Probably all three at once, when you think about it.

But, it's honestly a stylistic thing. It's different and it works for me. I'd imagine it'd be a fucking nightmare for anyone with epilepsy, though.

I am liking what Rockstar did with the game. I dont think I would have played a same ole Max Payne. The gore and grit of this one really appeals to me.

@jakob187 said:

HEY LET ME PULL ONE QUOTE OUT OF CONTEXT AND USE IT AGAINST A GAME THAT IS CATCHING FLAK BECAUSE PEOPLE HATE THINGS BEING DIFFERENT EIGHT YEARS LATER

Sorry, I'm done now.

Pretty much this. What is the OP even implying? If it's just the conjecture that Remedy might be harbouring some secret resentment towards Rockstar for what they did to their Max; that's fucking stupid. If it's the implication of "if only we would have the TRUE Max Payne 3", that's nothing more than a pointless hypothetical because there is no such thing as a TRUE sequel that abides to some intangible design code. Truth be told, another black and white gritty Max Payne game in the same old style with the same over the top comic book sensibilties wouldn't fly these days and besides, that game has been made and then succesfully improved already in MP 1 and 2.

Oh and I haven't played the game yet, but from what I've seen in the quick look and other videos I already like Rockstar's approach to Max a lot better than Remedy's. I appreciate the schlocky Hong Kong action meets pulpy noir story and I respect Remedy for innovating with the gameplay and creating the character of Max Payne but the new game is the first time it's really, really appealed to me. And yes, I have played the originals. Guess I'm just a sucker for Rockstar's cynical writing and cinematic art direction; no-one does it like them. Seems the voice actor is also fullfilling his potential now that the character's more than an archetype.

Anyway, later thread.

@BBQBram said:

TRUE Max Payne 3

T-Payne 3: Gritty noir as run through Auto-Tune. Also slo-mo...tune.

The silly thing about this kind of statement to me is that I bet Rockstar could not have pulled off the strange style of Max Payne 1 and 2. So they did what they could do well and good on them.

People act like they could have just taken up the Remedy style but that doesn't mean they could have done it correctly or as well. So they made the best game they can. That's how I look at it (as a huge Max Payne fan btw).

@BBQBram said:

@jakob187 said:

HEY LET ME PULL ONE QUOTE OUT OF CONTEXT AND USE IT AGAINST A GAME THAT IS CATCHING FLAK BECAUSE PEOPLE HATE THINGS BEING DIFFERENT EIGHT YEARS LATER

Sorry, I'm done now.

Pretty much th...[deleted to shorten reply]

Anyway, later thread.

The old games were NOT in black and white. It seems you didn't even play them as anyone with a passing knowledge of them would know that.

Nice try. Rather, the thread is discussing the differences of style between developers, that many people seem to think don't exist. You are speaking in hyperbole and implying something else. You seem to be unhappy that other people think the style of this game, which you like, doesn't fit well. "Uh oh I like something that other people don't like". It's fine to have different opinions. Also, contrary to what you said, style and tone (while not the only factor) are major components of how well a sequel relates to its predecessors. That doesn't mean you don't make changes, but it also means you shouldn't necessarily change everything.

If the new game came out now with the some of the old style presentations like the occasional comic book interlude, it would be so different from anything else today, one might think it would be received as nice change of pace. You can disagree though.

Oh, but you won't be posting in this thread again. Oh well.

@squirrelnacho said:

@BBQBram said:

@jakob187 said:

HEY LET ME PULL ONE QUOTE OUT OF CONTEXT AND USE IT AGAINST A GAME THAT IS CATCHING FLAK BECAUSE PEOPLE HATE THINGS BEING DIFFERENT EIGHT YEARS LATER

Sorry, I'm done now.

Pretty much th...[deleted to shorten reply]

Anyway, later thread.

The old games were NOT in black and white. It seems you didn't even play them as anyone with a passing knowledge of them would know that.

Nice try. Rather, the thread is discussing the differences of style between developers, that many people seem to think don't exist. You are speaking in hyperbole and implying something else. You seem to be unhappy that other people think the style of this game, which you like, doesn't fit well. "Uh oh I like something that other people don't like". It's fine to have different opinions. Also, contrary to what you said, style and tone (while not the only factor) are major components of how well a sequel relates to its predecessors. That doesn't mean you don't make changes, but it also means you shouldn't necessarily change everything.

If the new game came out now with the some of the old style presentations like the occasional comic book interlude, it would be so different from anything else today, one might think it would be received as nice change of pace. You can disagree though.

Oh, but you won't be posting in this thread again. Oh well.

I did play them, and I didn't mean a black and white colour scheme, I meant the heavy use of low contrasts, white snow, dark night, noir stuff. But yes that was poorly worded. I'm also more than aware of the differences between Remedy and Rockstar, whoever denies those differences must be pretty damn stupid. Who even did?

And I'm in no way unhappy about what people do or don't like. Why would that bother me? I was just stating my opinion, and wondering what the point of the thread was. There is absolutely nothing wrong with discussing what a Remedy developed Max Payne 3 would be like; I just didn't like the tone of the thread because it felt a bit dismissive of Rockstar's efforts, like we've all already agreed on that and that one quote is supposed to justify it.

How can "nice try" apply to an opinion? Read my post again; the first paragraph is a question, the second is an opinion. Unless you think my opinion on Max Payne 3 is "wrong". You don't need to get defensive just 'cause some people thought your thread seemed a bit unnecessary. Read your own post again, for that matter, and tell me it doesn't read like "Remedy probably dislikes what Rockstar did, but they would never say so it's implied". Just responding to that flamebait, which is my bad I guess. You say you just want discussion but you sure are dismissive towards others.

Edit: Oh you sent me a PM too? Sick burn dude. I'm a bit puzzled as to why though, since your post contained the same sentiment. What's the problem?

@BBQBram said:

@squirrelnacho said:

@BBQBram said:

@jakob187 said:

HEY LET ME PULL ONE QUOTE OUT OF CONTEXT AND USE IT AGAINST A GAME THAT IS CATCHING FLAK BECAUSE PEOPLE HATE THINGS BEING DIFFERENT EIGHT YEARS LATER

Sorry, I'm done now.

Pretty much th...[deleted to shorten reply]

Anyway, later thread.

The old games were [deleted for length]

I did play them, and I didn't [deleted for length].

Once again, you seem to think that the thread is meaning something that it's not. That is the "nice try", but I guess it's just a misunderstanding anyway. The PM was sent before I decided to keep posting in the thread, so it's redundant now. Your original post came off as unnecessarily upset. It's not that Remedy dislikes what they did, it said "creative differences", which is different. However, a lot of people don't seem to realize that there would be creative differences at all. Some people don't even know who made the first two games. Max Payne 2 very much fleshed out Max as a cinematic character, and people either don't know that, or forget that. Finally, some people think it would have been nice to continue improving on the Max Payne 2 character while updating the gameplay.

@Ghostiet said:

@Ramone said:

The game itself looks cool but it would have been interesting to see what Remedy did.

Probably kill off Max Payne at the end, if the manuscript pages of Alan Wake are of any indication.

I haven't played Max Payne 3 yet, but that woulda been the way to do it. Poor ol' Max should just hang up his hat and check out already. Would've been nice to see him die with some dignity instead of the mess he seems to be in Max Payne 3, but I'm sure he's got some kind of arc there that takes him away from that.

Still, I could totally see a Remedy Max Payne 3 with a sort of Hartigan/Nancy thing going on (the beginning part of it I mean, when she's a kid and he's looking out for her, none of that sexual tension stuff), getting into Max dealing with having lost his child and consequently all his hopes and dreams of being a father.

After the second touching on his loneliness and how Mona fit into that hole in his life, a story about him taking in and protecting some kid from the mafia or some Inner Circle spinoff, biting the bullet to do so, would've been a great last chapter.

@squirrelnacho said:

@BBQBram said:

@squirrelnacho said:

@BBQBram said:

@jakob187 said:

HEY LET ME PULL ONE QUOTE OUT OF CONTEXT AND USE IT AGAINST A GAME THAT IS CATCHING FLAK BECAUSE PEOPLE HATE THINGS BEING DIFFERENT EIGHT YEARS LATER

Sorry, I'm done now.

Pretty much th...[deleted to shorten reply]

Anyway, later thread.

The old games were [deleted for length]

I did play them, and I didn't [deleted for length].

Once again, you seem to think that the thread is meaning something that it's not. That is the "nice try", but I guess it's just a misunderstanding anyway. The PM was sent before I decided to keep posting in the thread, so it's redundant now. Your original post came off as unnecessarily upset. It's not that Remedy dislikes what they did, it said "creative differences", which is different. However, a lot of people don't seem to realize that there would be creative differences at all. Some people don't even know who made the first two games. Max Payne 2 very much fleshed out Max as a cinematic character, and people either don't know that, or forget that. Finally, some people think it would have been nice to continue improving on the Max Payne 2 character while updating the gameplay.

Yeah sorry about my attitude I guess, but the original post still reads like that to me, as well as some of your follow-up posts. I'm not the only one either, so it's not entirely crazy to assume the wording on the OP could have something to do with that. And while it would have been interesting to see the parallel universe Max Payne 3, I would have never wanted Rockstar to make that game simply because they're too good to ape someone else's style. For better or worse, they've made it their own and that authorship is something I appreciate the most in this hilariously stupid pandering industry.

Remedy CEO Matias Myllyrinne: “It’s f***ing brilliant,” he said. “It’s already brilliant so I’ve enjoyed it.”

The game would have been awful if Rockstar tried to march to a beat of a different developers vision. Say what you will about it now but at least it's got a distinct taste and tone, do you know how difficult it is to match the tone of someone else's idea from almost a decade ago? It's like when a band tries to make the same music after a singer leaves, it's just hollow sounding, everyone knows what's happening but the band doesn't want to rock the boat. Rockstar could have done that, or they could have put their hearts into this game, and they did.

I also have to say having played both MP's in their heyday, I don't think that style would work now, the current MP works fine. Remedy says they would have gone a different route but that's not necessarily saying they would have evolved that style so it wouldn't be completely different. If Remedy puts out this exact game I doubt you hear the "What happened?"" claims, more of "It was a necessary evolution".

And for all the hub-bub about a R* style being stamped all over it, I don't see it. It's not like the first MP's didn't have a certain style that didn't mesh with it's publishers games. I mean I remember distinctly having the last half of one of the games take place in some sort of kinky sex dungeon, and another having dudes in their boxer shorts hide in bathroom stalls. The game series was never the upper crust of gaming humor or style.

@BBQBram said:

Once again, you [deleted for length]

Yeah sorry about my attitude I guess, but the [deleted for length]

Rather, it seems people just don't like the fact that it is being pointing out that there would be differences between developers, and that some people think the style and tone is in MP3 is less original, interesting, and a step down.

@WVUEers said:

The game would have [deleted for length[

It doesn't have a distinct style and tone. It has a the tone of a Rockstar game, that was influenced by Man of Fire, then added in the voice actor from Max Payne 1 and 2, and then called it Max Payne 3.

The original style would have held up very well. Aesthetic choices don't need updating the way gameplay does. The tone and comic book interludes could have been considered very unique if it came out today. Seriously, people can't ready a few comic book panels between stretches of gameplay? I don't even like comic books, but they were awesome in this series. It's not like the original games didn't have awesome cutscenes as well. If its OK to be influenced by an 8 year old movie, its ok to be influenced by the 9 year old game this one is based off of (and it's too bad there wasn't much more influence from MP 1 and 2).

On your third point, there was nothing like that in either game. It seems you either don't know, or don't remember what you are talking about.

@Napalm said:

It's like people need to be vindicated at every turn that Max Payne 3 isn't the "true" Max Payne 3. This is getting ridiculous.

It does not feel like a Max Payne game beyond the voice actor and the slow motion. The original style, writing, and tone were very important in defining the originals, and this game is a major change. If you think that the changes don't make a difference, then that's fine. However, you cannot deny, as your post really does, that there are major changes that drastically change the feel and atmosphere of the game. If you don't like discussion about it, then it's simple, you don't need to post in the thread.