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    Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots

    Game » consists of 21 releases. Released Jun 12, 2008

    In 2014, war has become so routine that it is at the core of the global economy. A rapidly aging Solid Snake picks up his gun and embarks upon his final mission in this epic tale of tactical espionage action -- the conclusion to the Solid Snake saga.

    Metal Gear Scanlon 4: Guns of the Ryckerts Waiting Room

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    Redhotchilimist

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    #101  Edited By Redhotchilimist

    @kasaioni: Thanks for the response. I have finished it now, and in the end most things are... relatively clear, anyway.

    Final thoughts on the game:

    Ended up liking it, but it's a weird like. I had fun, except when I had to listen to Drebin talk for hours. Can't tell if it's longer or shorter than MGS3. I beat them both in around 20 hours, but a much larger part of those hours were spent watching cutscenes or occasionally setpieces and turret sections. Some of them are cool and some of them are not, but the cutscenes are all painfully slow. Played this way more lethally than 3, killed over a hundred people compared to a dozen that all got blown up while escorting EVA. It's fun, but I get the impression that I cheat myself out of what little gameplay there is when I just run past everything, shooting grenades back at my pursuers. Despite providing more opportunities than ever for playing non-lethally by having many enemies be robots, an efficient camo system and making sleep gas mines of all things, the war zones, turret sequences and number of explosive weapons made me more inclined to murder dudes instead of knocking them out. Most of the chapters aren't significant stages. Except for the middle east, South America and Shadow Moses the rest is all a few bosses, some cool setpieces and tooons of cutscenes. I have no idea how you people who never played any MGS games before liked this game, I can hardly think of a single thing past the first two chapters that is not some sort of callback. Don't feel very good about the Beauty and the Beast unit. Except for Screaming Mantis, they all hide during their fights and have annoying personalities. The "beauty" parts of their fights make me uncomfortable. It's weird enough to have Drebin narrate their gruesome if a little hard to take seriously backstories, but having them be these hot models that are all craazy from their traumas make it look like an odd fetish thing. Other characters talk about the beast inside during later cutscenes, but if there was a message to them, it's lost on me. I appreciated the callbacks to the former boss teams and think their powersuit designs are very cool, though. I suppose they might have been designed so you could attack them with lethal weaponry first and then decide afterwords to kill or sedate them, but the implementation just makes me feel awkward about it.

    I'm happy with it as a very fanservicey game that ties up all the loose threads of the earlier games with a lot of skill. I liked all of the elements that were used again, even the characters and plot threads that annoyed me in MGS2. Didn't expect MGS4 to make me appreciate Vamp, but next to the B&B unit he's a fondly familiar face with a will of his own who doesn't scream all the time. Raiden doesn't get on my nerves outside of MGS2 in general, it seems. Even Rose didn't bother me, perhaps because of her small amount of screentime. Loved coming back to the familiar Shadow Moses Island after two modern warfare-like scenarios, and the Arsenal Gear-like Outer Haven. It looks like Kojima winged the whole thing, but the story ended up as well as I could wish for and he makes it seem as intended as he could, in ways like tying the narrative closely to all the former games and naming chapters and bosses after them. MGS4 largely cares for the characters that are left and that I care for, and it gives everyone a proper cool scene and sendoff. I still wonder what turned the support team from MGS3 into different people except for retcons, but mostly I buy everyone's allegiances. I mean, the story is a real mess, you'd have a hard time telling anyone what exactly happens and have it make sense, but if I can't point to specifics I don't get to complain and a lot of cool shit happened. It even ended its story with a finality that changed my opinion on a couple of other games in the series. To be more precise, I now get why some posters in Metal Gear Scanlon don't appreciate Revengeance very much. It's a good game, a slightly worse and significantly shorter Bayonetta with some new mechanics and a way different setting, and I like it. But after 4? I can tell why some fans might feel the same way I feel about how Platinum did The Legend of Korra, although Revengeance is a much better game. Compared to the original, it's a pretty shallow take on the fiction, and it doesn't feel compatible with the way 4 ends.

    Also, I have no idea why they decided to make 5 now. I like Big Boss, but man. The story feels completely done, at least for the snakes.

    I'm gonna go listen to the GOTY 2008 podcast again now.

    Edit: That was not an interesting discussion.

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    Neezie

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    I'm pumped to see a playthrough of it. I recently replayed 2 and 3, and really wanted to play 4 again for the first time since it came out. But my PS3 died, and it disappeared from PSnow (#1 reason I would try the service) so I'm kind of out of luck.

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    joey

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    I can't wait to see his reaction to Act IV

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    AdequatelyPrepared

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    Wonder if they will stay on the title menu to see what happens in the graveyard.
    Or if the amazing Installing Smoking Solid Snake will be part of an episode.

    MGS4 is a really weird game, so weird that I was surprised looking back at the scores it got at time of release. You'd think that such a game would be way more divisive. Could have been a tech thing I guess, considering how early it came out in the PS3 lifecycle. A 94 on Metacritic is nothing to scoff at.

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    kasaioni

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    #105  Edited By kasaioni

    @redhotchilimist: You said it yourself; your not sure why the MGS3 support team progressed the way it did. That's probably one of the things MGSV will explain in more depth. And from the perspective of Peace Walker, MGSV is sort of needed; otherwise there would be this weird cliffhanger in the middle of the canon.

    And yeah, fuck MGR's story.

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    lead_dispencer

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    I still remember that tune from the menu, those strings! (is it a harp? or a very soft picked guitar perhaps?)

    You ever think they will remake 1 with modern-ish controls and 3d camera? A man can dream. A man can dream.

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    rkofan87

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    #107  Edited By rkofan87

    when do you all think mgs4 will start i am thinking july and ends september.

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    Teddie

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    #108  Edited By Teddie
    @redhotchilimist said:

    I'm gonna go listen to the GOTY 2008 podcast again now.

    Edit: That was not an interesting discussion.

    Have you listened to the MGS4 spoilercast? Might be more what you were looking for discussion-wise. It's kinda weird to hear the guys so enthused about a game in unison.

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    Ravelle

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    @kasaioni: Thanks for the response. I have finished it now, and in the end most things are... relatively clear, anyway.

    Final thoughts on the game:

    I'm gonna go listen to the GOTY 2008 podcast again now.

    Edit: That was not an interesting discussion.

    I didn't quite understand the beauty and the beast or why they had to be sexy ladies either, but I guess Kojima like his ladies, the MG series have been full of it. It's pretty cool they're based on actual models and actresses though.

    As for the fights, they basically were carbon copies of MSG1 bosses, Grey Fox, Sniper Wolf, Psychomantis etc.

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    Teddie

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    #111  Edited By Teddie

    @captain_insano said:

    Just depends on how his mindset is going into it and how he goes during it.

    Surely there'll be less grenade spamming in this game.

    Not once he gets the grenade launcher attachment to the M4

    That's assuming either of them even figure out you can mod weapons. My first time through I never bought anything from Drebin's, let alone noticing he had upgrades etc.

    I'm sure the commenters will be out in full force if they don't notice.

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    LocoRocker

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    that M4 with a supressor and a red dot was the only weapon you needed in the game

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    kasaioni

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    #113  Edited By kasaioni

    @locorocker: For the sneaking parts, the only weapon you need is the tranq gun. But then you can go to town in Act 4 with lethal weapons.

    @ravelle I actually really like Crying Wolf's battle. The only one out of the four that has any tension.

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    budgietheii

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    I still remember that tune from the menu, those strings! (is it a harp? or a very soft picked guitar perhaps?)

    You ever think they will remake 1 with modern-ish controls and 3d camera? A man can dream. A man can dream.

    Twin snakes? But yes another revisit with the improvements made since MGS2 could be interesting. Probably more likely with Kojima being given the boot. Or could make it out as a remake and then pull some alternate reality bullshit towards the end :)

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    Redhotchilimist

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    #115  Edited By Redhotchilimist

    @teddie: Thanks! I didn't remember that podcast at all, and it's more of what I want than the GOTY talk. Pretty easy to tell why they all liked it, for the person who wondered about the metacritic score. Real good looking graphics, cinematics and setpieces are approachable, along with better controls.

    @ravelle: Oh, that was what the Laughing Octopus battle referenced. I totally also forgot that in the Cyborg Ninja fight, he was cloaking all the time. I don't mind Kojimas sexy ladies in general, to be clear. I mind the combination of horrible wartime traumas and apparent insanity with boob jiggling and butts. Already knew they were based on actual models, but I hadn't seen any pictures. They are very similar.

    I actually thought all of the B&B fights were tense, if not all fun. Laughing Octopus hangs around early on in chapter 2 and I saw her through the corner of my eye when Snake was scanning the house, so when she finally pops in it feels like a home invasion. Got real paranoid about her cloaking. She never hid as the human anatomy doll, but I shot it a couple of times anyway.I just got real frustrated by how that fight ends. After a while, she stopped hiding and just started coming at me, either shooting or rolling like a ball, and in that situation I couldn't think of anything to do other than make her shoot, step behind a wall and pop out of cover to fire at her while she's putting her gun away. Vulcan Raven is tearing that tower apart, so that's exciting, but the strategy I came up with was to make her come into the first floor, hit her with some rockets and then run up the stairs. That's not that exciting. Crying Wolf is cool, though. I think I did it on the first try, but it took a long time. She ran away instead of fighting back, so I never got into the whole cover shooting thing with her. Screaming Mantis and Vamp are the fights I liked the most, though. I appreciate when there are gimmicky solutions to bosses, something more than just shooting. MGS4 overall seemed to be a bit lacking in the rotten food-throwing department. I might just have missed it though, that's the nature of those sort of tricks. But I don't think Crying Wolf dies if you put the clock ahead a week.

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    Ravelle

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    @teddie: Thanks! I didn't remember that podcast at all, and it's more of what I want than the GOTY talk. Pretty easy to tell why they all liked it, for the person who wondered about the metacritic score. Real good looking graphics, cinematics and setpieces are approachable, along with better controls.

    @ravelle: Oh, that was what the Laughing Octopus battle referenced. I totally also forgot that in the Cyborg Ninja fight, he was cloaking all the time. I don't mind Kojimas sexy ladies in general, to be clear. I mind the combination of horrible wartime traumas and apparent insanity with boob jiggling and butts. Already knew they were based on actual models, but I hadn't seen any pictures. They are very similar.

    I actually thought all of the B&B fights were tense, if not all fun. Laughing Octopus hangs around early on in chapter 2 and I saw her through the corner of my eye when Snake was scanning the house, so when she finally pops in it feels like a home invasion. Got real paranoid about her cloaking. She never hid as the human anatomy doll, but I shot it a couple of times anyway.I just got real frustrated by how that fight ends. After a while, she stopped hiding and just started coming at me, either shooting or rolling like a ball, and in that situation I couldn't think of anything to do other than make her shoot, step behind a wall and pop out of cover to fire at her while she's putting her gun away. Vulcan Raven is tearing that tower apart, so that's exciting, but the strategy I came up with was to make her come into the first floor, hit her with some rockets and then run up the stairs. That's not that exciting. Crying Wolf is cool, though. I think I did it on the first try, but it took a long time. She ran away instead of fighting back, so I never got into the whole cover shooting thing with her. Screaming Mantis and Vamp are the fights I liked the most, though. I appreciate when there are gimmicky solutions to bosses, something more than just shooting. MGS4 overall seemed to be a bit lacking in the rotten food-throwing department. I might just have missed it though, that's the nature of those sort of tricks. But I don't think Crying Wolf dies if you put the clock ahead a week.

    I spent most of my time hiding under a bed until she hid herself again, shoot her a couple of times and hid under a bed again.
    Also, she totally got me with her mini rex lure of her.

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    Substance_D

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    #117  Edited By Substance_D

    I made sort of a "best of" montage from Metal Gear Scanlon 3.

    Loading Video...

    I'll probably make a second video with just the original video and audio since some of the clips didn't fit into this video.

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    Captain_Insano

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    I though the Boss battles were 'too easy' - basically just boiled down to simple shooting and dodging - I didn't dislike them but they were not memorable in any real way

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    Captain_Insano

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    Though I think at least Vamp and Liquid are handled in a cool, cinematic way. I'd like to actually watch the Raiden v Vamp fight, rather than not watching it because I'm playing

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    kasaioni

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    @captain_insano: Yeah, the solution to the Vamp fight is interesting, but once you know what to do, you can beat him in under a minute on NG+ easily. And I don't like that split screen section much either, I wouldn't have minded if the Vamp v. Raiden fight was a shorter cutscene on it's own.

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    Captain_Insano

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    I just think that overall Drew (should) will find this easier - I don't know how interesting it will be necessarily with the whole thing being so cutscene heavy and Drew not wholly understanding things, and Dan mis-explaining some things (I understand though, as trying to explain MGS lore on the spot would be fucking impossible)

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    hollitz

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    I just think that overall Drew (should) will find this easier - I don't know how interesting it will be necessarily with the whole thing being so cutscene heavy and Drew not wholly understanding things, and Dan mis-explaining some things (I understand though, as trying to explain MGS lore on the spot would be fucking impossible)

    It had been years since I thought about the Metal Gear series before I played 4. 3 kind of killed my interest in the series--even though I now appreciate it a whole hell of a lot more than I did at the time. I still found 4 pretty easy to understand,. Well, for the most part.

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    LocoRocker

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    yeah, 4 might be a bit different experience as it tries to be grand and epic, explain everything and tie up all of the lose ends. Because all of the excessive exposition I actually found it really easy to understand too.

    MG Scanlon 4 will probably be more of a movie watching experience not only for us but for Drew and Dan as well.

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    Captain_Insano

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    Still a month til e3 which means more than that for mgs4.

    At least The Witcher and Batman should keep us busy

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    bceagles128

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    So I just now beat MGS4 for the first time. I probably beat MGS1 and 2 ~ 20 times each, and beat 3 at least 5 times, but I was watching MGScanlon the other day and it occurred to me that I didn't remember how MGS4 ended. So I decided to do a playthrough of MGS4 to jog my memory. So eventually I got to Act 5 and reached that absurd scene with Meryl and Johnny and thought WTF, I definitely do not remember this bullshit. So at that point, I went back and looked at my old save file and realized that I must have stopped playing at the end of Act 4, because the save file was after the Act 5 briefing.

    Well now that I've finally beaten it, I'm not so upset that it took me so long. Holy shit, that ending is fucking TERRIBLE. I can't even begin to describe how awful it was. I'm just going to block it out of my memory and go back to assuming that Solid Snake died a hero on that tanker and that that godawful wedding scene never happened. Literally everything after Naomi's speech (including all cutscenes and the final boss battle with Liquid) should be lit on fire and never spoken of again.

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    ch3burashka

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    #127  Edited By ch3burashka

    @bceagles128 said:

    So I just now beat MGS4 for the first time. I probably beat MGS1 and 2 ~ 20 times each, and beat 3 at least 5 times, but I was watching MGScanlon the other day and it occurred to me that I didn't remember how MGS4 ended. So I decided to do a playthrough of MGS4 to jog my memory. So eventually I got to Act 5 and reached that absurd scene with Meryl and Johnny and thought WTF, I definitely do not remember this bullshit. So at that point, I went back and looked at my old save file and realized that I must have stopped playing at the end of Act 4, because the save file was after the Act 5 briefing.

    Well now that I've finally beaten it, I'm not so upset that it took me so long. Holy shit, that ending is fucking TERRIBLE. I can't even begin to describe how awful it was. I'm just going to block it out of my memory and go back to assuming that Solid Snake died a hero on that tanker and that that godawful wedding scene never happened. Literally everything after Naomi's speech (including all cutscenes and the final boss battle with Liquid) should be lit on fire and never spoken of again.

    I'm gonna guess it was a Konami mandate. "What, you're killing our most profitable(?) character? Fuck that!".

    While the ending was definitely bullshit, it was a good kind of bullshit? There's something to be said for mystery, but since Kojima was already clearing everything else up (like Vamp), it was good to get complete closure (minus the Snake death). The "zero to 100" talk was poorly written, but coherent in its own way. A bit too symbolic for my taste, but after playing MGS3 and then hearing all the nasty shit about Zero, it was good to see him come to an end, both as a villian and an old friend. Too bad that they pulled the ol' switcheroo on the Big Boss/Solidus body. I felt terrible watching his fucked up body-in-a-bag get shot and then burned alive(ish) and knowing that was all fake somewhat invalidates those feelings.

    Love it or hate it, the one thing that must be said is, I don't think there's a single other franchise out there than can pull of anything in the realm of MGS4. I'm talking about the fucked up "war economy" plot, but also the mechanics and techniques with which Kojima tells his tale. I knew about the PS1 emulation of Shadow Moses, so it was still neat to play it, but when I came upon the field and "The Best is Yet to Come" started playing my jaw dropped. There were plenty of audio flashbacks, but that very first one, of Snake remembering his first talk with Mei Ling, was breath taking. No other franchise has the history, spans so much hardware, and has a creative director crazy enough to do all that. If there ever was any case for "video games as art" it would probably be MGS4 because, unlike other "art" games it actually utilizes exclusive video game properties, instead of just art direction.

    PS I don't know how long Kojima has actually been planning the entire arc, but I'm glad Revolver Ocelot was ultimately redeemed.

    PPS 7 years hence its posting, I finally got to listen to the Snakecast, and boy was it a letdown. No one knew what the fuck they were talking about. I was especially pissed that Brad(?) said that the MGS3 support team (Zero, Sigint, Medic) were throwaway characters and that he didn't get why they were made to be big deals. 7 years is a bit too late to be starting a grudge but dammit I'm doing it anyway.

    And he was blinded by the muzzle flare, not a "graphic" cut with a knife. Ugh.

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    rkofan87

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    Still a month til e3 which means more than that for mgs4.

    At least The Witcher and Batman should keep us busy

    i am thinking end june or the start of july.

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    Captain_Insano

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    I see an attempted revolutionary thread! Bringing this one back to life.

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    KarlPilkington

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    After E3, just you wait.

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    Captain_Insano

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    @karlpilkington: I couldn't wait - then Pillars of Eternity and The Witcher 3 came out and now I have no time anyway.

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    deactivated-582d227526464

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    Man, as someone who has only watched people play these games for the story, I think MGS4 is my least favorite mgs by far. It could be kinda sad to see Dan and Drew play this game if it is as much of a bummer I remember it being.

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    ArbitraryWater

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    I'll be very interested in seeing what Drew thinks about this game, given how much the self-indulgent wankery of MGS 4 really turned me off from it. Also the part where entire episodes will consist of them watching cutscenes.

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    emfromthesea

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    I hope they intend on starting sometime in the near future. Would be a nice thing for summer, which is usually a little sparse on video game releases.

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    Shindig

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    I feel like they'll have to start soon because of the amount of set-up the briefings give you. This series will be bigger than the other three just for the sheer amount of story you're dumped with.

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    musubi

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    I am seriously baffled that some people think MGS4 is the worst of the series. I loved every single crazy ass moment.

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    deactivated-63f899c29358e

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    I hope they start soon, it is going to be fun seeing Drew react to all the crazy in that game, and he will probably struggle a lot less with the controls (though you never know with that Drew :P).

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    Baillie

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    I am seriously baffled that some people think MGS4 is the worst of the series. I loved every single crazy ass moment.

    I am MGS's biggest fan and I think 4 is my least favourite.

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    Quarters

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    musubi

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    @quarters: Like the whole scene with Liquid and the finger gun? Absolutely amazing.

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    Kevin_Cogneto

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    @baillie said:
    @demoskinos said:

    I am seriously baffled that some people think MGS4 is the worst of the series. I loved every single crazy ass moment.

    I am MGS's biggest fan and I think 4 is my least favourite.

    I'm in that camp as well. I don't like the way it plays, I don't like that it has a level-based structure rather than being set in a single contiguous location, I don't like a single one of its boss fights, I don't like its nauseating fanboy pandering, I don't like hour-long cutscenes, I don't like its tell-don't-show brand of storytelling, I don't like robo-Raiden, and I certainly don't like that ridiculous ending. It's not just my least favorite Metal Gear game, I think it's the only entry in the series that is just flat-out a bad game.

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    davidh219

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    I can't wait. Dan and Drew got me to play through all the games for the first time (I finished 4 while Drew was still working on 3). Love all of them so much, but 4 is I think my favorite to play, while 2 is by far my favorite for story due to it going full-tilt into everything that happens just being there to serve the game's subtext, to the point of not even caring to explain or justify most of its plot elements because the reality of what's happening just doesn't matter. Can't say I've ever seen a story done that way in any medium, and it works particularly well for a video game. Fucking brilliant.

    Anyway, back to 4, even in 2015 it controls pretty freaking good. Crouch-walking is awesome. The shooting feels good. Octocamo is a way smarter way to handle the camo idea introduced in 3. Even though I only had like a year to become a fan of the series, the fan service and call-backs got me super pumped. The very last thing you do in that game with a controller in your hands is the best. The one major complaint I have is the B&B bosses. While it's cool that they are thematically harkening back to previous bosses of the series, they just weren't as well designed mechanically. Also, their back stories are terrible and the fact that they are basically brain-washed animals when you fight them as opposed to conscious individuals making a choice to be there doing what they're doing just makes them so much less interesting.

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    rkofan87

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    e3 is over so i think it will start soon.

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    GERALTITUDE

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    #144  Edited By GERALTITUDE

    I am a gigantic MGS fan. Gigantic. I *love* MGS4 to death. I remember every moment of that game and playing it for the first time being a super mind-blowing experience. It is still my least favorite MGS somehow. I'm going to replay it soon and see if that's still true.

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    hassun

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    @demoskinos: I go back and forth on which one the worst of the main series is. It's definitely 4 or 2 though.

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    kasaioni

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    I always find it strange that some people have problems with the way this game plays in terms of controls. Even by today's standards it's pretty much and third-person shooter. Good ol' left bumper right bumper. I mean, in MGS1-3 you shoot with square for god-sake.

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    ch3burashka

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    #147  Edited By ch3burashka

    I won't lie - the number 2 or 3 reason I was stoked for E3 was, after all the announcements (which were way more insane than anticipated, so thank you), the next big thing would be MGScanlon and Mario Party. I'm a Bomb junkie.

    PS I really really hope Drew appreciates all the callbacks that MGS4 crams in. I didn't cry, but I sure felt it was a life-changing experience when MGS1 audio clips started playing over The Best Is Yet To Come. Granted, I came to the series late (as in, I beat MGS1 4 years ago), but it was like Snake and I were both thinking back to those moments, and come to think of it, it wasn't all that long for him either, he's just way worse for wear.

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    ehbunner

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    As someone who has never played any MGS and lives vicariously through Drew, I can't wait. My favorite part of MGS is the story so I am hyped for two hour long cut scenes, the crazier the better. If I knew MGS was this bat shit crazy I would have been on board with that series from the get go.

    I'm hoping that by no later than the middle of July(hopefully a week or two earlier) they start the series up, I'd like to think sooner but I could see there being a lot of stuff to get done after e3 before they can settle into the series.

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    Humanity

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    @ch3burashka: considering Drew didn't react to the Raiden mask at the beginning of MGS3 at all.. well he probably won't remember any of the callbacks

    Still really excited

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    musubi

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    @hassun: I think 2 for sure. I don't discredit how impressive and important of a game it was at the time but its by far my least favorite Metal Gear.

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