Just read it, can't say I disagree with anything in particular. I did enjoy it back in the day, but yeah..only played it once.

Definitely has its minor flaws and you point of some good things, but its no where near as bad as you put it to be.

Can't say I agree with you. This all comes from the viewpoint that Metal Gear Solid 4 is a bad game. Metal Gear Solid 4 is nowhere near as BAD as you make it to be.
 
Also, the part with bad textures is a little extreme. I don't see how that makes Metal Gear Solid 4 "bad" at all. They are problems I'd only notice if I paid close attention. In other words, they don't really matter.
 
Metal Gear Solid 4 still has 5 stars.

and now, someone could just as easily make an overly long post like this highlighting why the game is as good as you think.

" and now, someone could just as easily make an overly long post like this highlighting why the game is as good as you think. "

I honestly do not see the point of doing this. If people like it people like it. Why go out your way to prove them wrong. Nicely written though. Haven't played any MGS games so I have no opinion.

i noticed that the harcore nerds that have tv tans are the ones that hate it. casual gamers love it. do you get it? go outside

I'm left a bit breathless by the futility of this endeavor, but for whatever it's worth, it's a pretty well-written critique of the game. You start nitpicking at some really petty stuff like how the hair looks, etc., and that of course whittles away at the effectiveness of your argument (I can only assume you were aiming for sheer quantity), but most of your substantial arguments I agree with. I doubt I've ever been as disappointed with a game as I was with MGS4, and I too count myself as a fan no longer.

If the detractors actually took the time to read the preamble they would see the following:
 

• I do not think Metal Gear Solid 4 is a bad game, as I clearly state.
• I am not trying to force my opinion on to others, as I clearly state. (I admit that the title of the thread is sensationalist, but such an attitude is not reflected anywhere else in the text, and that title seemed like a good idea at the time.)
• This was written to counter people who try to claim that Metal Gear Solid 4 is one of the best games ever made based on a factual assertion (in other words, claim that it's your favorite game, but don't claim that it's the best game ever made). That assertion is plainly false. It is a fine game, an average game, not a bad game, but it certainly isn't a good game, and it certainly isn't the best.
• I also point out that I won't praise Metal Gear Solid 4. Metal Gear Solid 4 does have some good going for it. But this is not a review of the game, and people who interpret it as such have not spent the time to read the preamble. This is a summary of the flaws I find in the game, and nothing more. I clearly state that I want the reader to think about what makes the game good on their own.
  

My take on MGS4, I enjoyed it.  It's not perfect, it has its flaws, but I did find it fun and reminiscent of the past Metal Gear Solid games.  MGS3: Snake Eater is still my all-time favorite of the series though, but I really can't say that MGS4 can not be considered to be one of the best games of this generation, in my opinion. 
 
I guess I really don't want to nitpick on games coz I like to appreciate the production given to these games in terms of writing the story, making the characters, connecting the story to the series, development of the whole game, designing, etc, just for the people to enjoy.  Sorry, I respect your opinion, but I also find the entry to be kind of harsh.  Plot holes are common, even many great movies have plot holes, but in overall, people still did understand MGS4's story and enjoyed it.  The look of the game is one of the best coz not all games look that good.  Uncharted may look better, but again, it is just "one" of the best-looking games of this generation.  In my opinion, I appreciate the game and it's kind of unfair to despise a gamer's opinion of MGS4 as being one of the best games (coz it seems like that's what you are aiming for with stating all these flaws even if you like MGS). 
 
Maybe you can suggest a better story or better production for MGS4?  I'm just curious to know, what do you think could have been a better ending or story for MGS4? :)

Plot holes are common, even many great movies have plot holes, but in overall, people still did understand MGS4's story and enjoyed it. ...
 
In my opinion, I appreciate the game and it's kind of unfair to despise a gamer's opinion of MGS4 as being one of the best games ...
 
Maybe you can suggest a better story or better production for MGS4?  I'm just curious to know, what do you think could have been a better ending or story for MGS4? :)

Trying to pick apart it's graphics by comparing it to Uncharted is kind of foolish.  In 2008 it was easily one of the best looking console games.  It didn't look like Uncharted because Kojima Producitons isn't Naughty Dog.  That's not a negative because no one are as talented as ND is at building PS3 games. 
 
My save file says I beat MGS4 11 times.  I played through the game in every style and did 2 big boss runs on extreme.  In all MGS games it's easier to just run past the guards and trigger the next area or just shoot your way through, stealth was always the more difficult and more rewarding way to play. The only difference was that in this game the controls for shooting are much better than they ever were.  That and Drebin made ammo very accessible for people who just wanted to shoot - I don't see anything wrong with that.  I rarely used it.
 
I agree with you on a lot of points and there are things I don't like about it, like:  Installs at every act with no full install,  Konami IDs, Quality of the on-line game and after a few plays Act 3 gets really old.  Sure, it has a goofy story but going in knowing it's an MGS game - faulting the story for weirdness is kind of strange if you are used to the series.  You say you like 2 the most, which I would say is a much bigger offender in 'What?' storytelling.

And even with all my complaints: 11 times.  It's a really good game.  Playing it is fun.  I can't think of the last game I tried so many different runs with.  I think it's just as good as I think it is and I had so much more fun with this game than MGS2.
 
Oh, and the in-game ipod was awesome.  What a cool way to do collectibles, where most games are either dull or 'me too'.  You find songs from the game and previous games from the developer.  The ipod was just a way to access some of the stuff you were collecting across your playthoughs.  Almost no PS3 games at the time has custom soundtracks and I don't think that takes away from a cool feature.

" I don't think it would have been a good story for the series if it ended in MGS2.  I also liked MGS2, but it was actually the peak of the series that made MGS's story to be bigger than what was expected.  It ended revealing about the patriots and the government involved in the events of the story; so, if it ended there, there wouldn't be any resolution to the bigger conflict.  People will just ask who are these patriots?  What the hell will happen to the world now?  What will happen to Snake, to Meryl, to Raiden, to the Colonel, to Ocelot, to Otacon, etc.? "

" @lilbigsupermario: Also, making it classic Metal Gear style may have helped. :)
 

"

 though certainly not as big as the gaping plot hole in Metal Gear Solid 3's story which renders that entire game irrelevant. 

  People will just ask who are these patriots?  What the hell will happen to the world now?  What will happen to Snake, to Meryl, to Raiden, to the Colonel, to Ocelot, to Otacon, etc.?  And you really do have to consider that people also demanded this sequel from Kojima. 

@lilbigsupermario said:

  People will just ask who are these patriots?  What the hell will happen to the world now?  What will happen to Snake, to Meryl, to Raiden, to the Colonel, to Ocelot, to Otacon, etc.?  And you really do have to consider that people also demanded this sequel from Kojima. 

 I don't understand your point? "people would of asked this and that" so what?  the lure of knowing the truth is a interesting one, but the fact is that the mystery is all the more interesting then the answer in the vast majority of cases. Some things not only do not require a answer but demand it, magic being a prime example. Knowing how a magic trick is done detracts from the magic itself. To apply that to mgs, wondering who vamp is is more interesting then finding out Naomi injected in with nanomachines. Yes, we want a statisfactory answer but the sad truth is most answers can not live up to our expectations.

" @lilbigsupermario:   "i n my point of view, I just appreciate MGS4 for being that story to connect the dots in the series.   " so as long as it connects the dots regardless of how bad it does them, then that means its a successful plot? no, not at all.    "   So is the ending satisfying?  In my opinion, yes, because basically, my questions were answered in a story deep enough to make sense." really baffled by that statement. making sense and being intellectually satisfying are two completely different things.   "

MGS2 is TOTALLY the best one.
 
Also you are talking shite. You wrote like 3 paragraphs on textures, right after saying a PS2 game was in your top 5.

" @ZanzibarBreeze:  No; I'm saying you went crazy in-depth bashing this game's technical statistics while sayin you looked passed all that in the old ones.
 
And I just said MGS2's my favourite one you stupid fuck. Did you even read that or did you just pick out key words and write a fuckin smarmy-ass comeback? Jeez. "

Someone should've played this when it was released back in 2008. Guess what? Halo 3, Call of Duty 4, Crysis, and other games released between 2005 and 2008 were good during that time, but compare to games now. Yeah, they're gonna suck. Of course the script is gonna be bad to you. If you're the kind of person that's into corporate philanthropy and government scandals then you would understand it and like it.

sounds like someone has too much time on their hands... jk, everyone knows MGS3 is the best in the series

There's so much here I don't feel like it would be good to list off a huge rebuttal on every single point. That's not constructive. I would, however, like to (respectfully) offer  some counter-points. First off, kudos on a well-written and thought-out post. While I don't share your view that it is not a good game, I still can appreciate the effort put into writing this. I did take issue with a few of your notes. I found it a little hypocritical that you complained the Drebin store breaks the game (a point, by the way, I wholeheartedly agree with!!) but then complain you can't buy chaff grenades in there. I see your point, in a way, but it's kind of funny to be against the idea of being able to use the Drebin store and then complain you can't use it when it's most convenient for you. I get what you're saying but I felt those points sent a mixed message.  
 
I do agree that sometimes the best thing for an artist is some degree of limitation. If left unchecked, Kojima's visions have the potential to exceed their means. However, I still cherish MGS4 and I think it did things no other video game has done before or since. There are issues but things such as the texture on a tree or a character model's mustache don't bother me. I don't, however, think it would have been better if it were multiplatform simply because it's unfair from an artistic standpoint to expect Kojima to change his vision because you don't like the choices he made regarding cut scenes, etc. This is, of course, all a manner of opinion and perspective. Kojima set out to make the game which best illustrated his vision- not to cater to any one specific member of his audience. My point is that I think having the 50GB capacity allowed him to make the game he wanted and, in the end, that's what's more important to me- that Kojima be left to see ideas to their utmost potential without being hindered by technical limitations. I said before I think many artists thrive on limitations but I am speaking more of self-editing and other fixtures of the creative process other than something like, say, how many bits can fit on a disc.  
 
Overall though, I appreciate this post even if I don't agree with it. Keep this kind of stuff going it's fun to read. 

I gotta say, first of all, that just about everything you wrote in your opening mirrors my feelings for the game and the series. I don't know if I would call MGS2 my favorite out of them all (for me it would either be 1 or 3), but it's definitely the one I spent the most time with (both versions) and the one that truly opened my eyes to the series. 
 
I also agree with A LOT of the points against MGS4, but it comes off as very nitpicky. Then again, I don't know if there's any nice way to come down on something :) 
One thing I wanted to bring up was  about your first point about the installs. Maybe this was brought up already, but I would hardly call the install process "game design" as it really has nothing to do with the gameplay. And I think the comparison to Uncharted is a bit unfair. It's like comparing the performance of a Bugatti supercar to a Geo Metro; they're opposite ends of the spectrum. Many PS3 games force an initial install. I would even guess that the majority of games do so, but yes, MGS4 is definitely the worst offender. 
 
Anyway, thats the only nit I'll allow myself to pick out of your blog, but I did want to add something that I was surprised you didn't bring up. 
 
Japanese mo-cap actors. 
 
It seems to me that, at least in this game, they tend to over-act. Naomi and Otacon stand out to me as the worst offenders. Too many wild gesticulations and unnecessary  movements came out as looking very bizarre and unnatural in the cutscenes. Coupling that with the American voice acting gave it that "I'm watching anime" feel that people (and myself) to attribute to the game.  
 
Love all the passion you channeled to write this all out, even though (as others have said) I don't completely agree. 
I'm just glad I'm not alone in the "dislike" for this game

Hi, I have a few more things to say since i'm saying it in another thread. I find the stealth gameplay to be unrealistic because first of all, if you use a real gun, it will create an alert or get them in caution mode. Now your life is more difficult, which they are saying, well you can't use a real gun in certain levels. Second of all, there are alot of ppl who are crawling around an entire level using traquiler darts. First of all, someone like sam fisher wouldn't be caught dead using traquilers, or crawling on the ground an entire level. In real life, even with the octacamo, you will be caught. I felt mgs3 did it right with the camoflauge where you can selected and kojima ran out of ideas and implemented a suit that does all this for you. Why not just use stealth camoflauge like in the first game?

 
With these gameplay decisions, your are left with three options, use stealth with a fake unrealistic traquiler gun the entire level. Or two, using a real gun, shoot ppl in the head, run to the next checkpoint without being spotted, or three a combination of both. Something like chaos theory is more realistic, they don't crawl and use traquilers. In fact is it even possible to play this game using a real gun that's loud without getting an alert? I say is the stealth design really as realistic as splinter cell games or is it just a fictional style of stealth kojima created?  
 
There are no spies like this in real life, they are alot more like sam fisher rather than snake, they go in darkness, then extract quickly, or at least have a small team of special forces. Also can you really use a traquiler dart in real life if you want to keep quiet? They really need to fire their military advisor because alot of these ideas are very fictional, that's why i'm having a hard time buying into this. That scene where he cqc's everyone, I am trained in krav maga, the same thing as sam fisher since his fighting skills are used in real life. What I have been seeing is alot of martial art moves by snake that will never work in real life for the cutscenes, I find it sort of disturbing. There seems to be a lack of realism from the real world.

Really interesting article. Well formatted and put together. Saying this from never playing a MGS game. I found it an good read. Nice to see some convey like or dislike in more than just fanboys spit.

Um...okay? MGS4 is a great game...but as I have said before it could have been A TONNNNNNN better. And a ton of your points are just opinions as well. Like all 4 MGS games...there are a ton of things wrong or bad about them...MGS4 just had the most hype and the most potential so that is a big reason why it fell short.  
 
And Act 3 is fun for me, it's open and has plenty to discover like Act 1 and 2, just in a relaxed environment. Obviously it isn't as fruitful as Act 1 or 2 or as action packed but I still found some cool stuff, like the mini Irvings in the trench coat stalking you. And all of the stuff taken from other MGS games is fine, they were fun then and they were fun in MGS4. Act 4 was great the first time through and that's about it. Act 5 I expected to be something like the Big Shell, all open and explorable like the first two acts but no, it was totally linear. 

Fuckin' legendary write up, man. I and whole heartedly agree with most of what you said. Though I do think the graphics are still really good and with Snake and Otacon being interesting characters. Ocelot, though, really did so freakin convoluted and messy that he was just a joke villain. Raiden was a whiny emo now. I'm one of the few who very much prefers him in MGS2. Act 3 really is just simply boring, and oh yes... the game has far too many long winded cutscenes, even by MGS standards and not enough gameplay. Stealth was pointless, especially the MKII. M4 is the only weapon you need. 
 
The game did have semblances of replay value just because of all the easter eggs you may miss, and convos to have via CODEC. Oh and also...only one Codec contact minus Rose who was there just to have her boobs wiggled by the sixaxis.
 
MGS2 isn't my favourite but I do agree to it being better than MGS4. MGS3, though, is my all time favourite MGS. It's MGS4 just with better....everything.

"I find the stealth gameplay to be unrealistic"

Im not gonna lie, Im not reading all that. My complaints about the game are that, as you said, it's not really a stealth game. I ended up in gun fights on pretty much every encouter with an NPC and said gun fights weren't very fun. Also as a noob to the series a hadn't a clue what was going on for most of the time.

I appreciate what you're trying to say, but the fact that you keep telling the reader that they're wrong rather than just giving your opinion is an absolutely horrible way of getting your point across.
 
Also editing that down would be handy, way too unwieldy. You should be able to make your point in a more precise manner in my opinion.
 
I'm not trying to trash your article though, I enjoyed reading it. I really enjoyed MGS4 so its interesting to hear what people don't like about it.

 According to torrents with all cutscenes, there is about 10 hours worth of cutscenes for the game.  
 
Also to other mgs4 fans, I bet they didn't know because they watch every cutscene. Kojima actually counts that extra 10 hours to you cleartime, so you think you are playing a 16 hour game. Did you ppl know that? I'm probally the only one on the forum who skipped every cutscene. I think that's dishonest and total deception. They should of only count gameplay, not cutscenes. Why would I skip cutscenes? Well it's my second playthrough, I didn't want to watch them again because there are way too much and I care more about the gameplay than the story unlike I alot of ppl. I saw a mgs game that is light on content for the gameplay.
 
Now back to your point, I bet if I were to download every cutscene and edit them myself, at least on a semi professional level, I can bring down the cutscenes to 6 hours. It can be more precise and not editing your cutscenes trying to keep every irrelevent frame is like a hollywood movie that's not edited. The perfect length of cutscenes is mgs1 and mgs3. There were too many cutscenes for mgs2, they toned it down and it still worked and even better. It was the right amount, except the ending had alot more cutscenes.

"  It's a stealth action game and not really realistic stealth imo.    "

That was a lot of work just for me to say, I disagree.

I agree on most points but disagree on some others.
 
Mostly the story.
 
I enjoyed how stupid and long-winded and vacuous it was! Metal Gear Solid has gone so far up it's own ass that it literally started eating itself and the result is a game so utterly insane and unique that I can't help but enjoy most of it.
 
Except that stupid fucking final cutscene god damn it.
 
Also the gameplay was okay but you never got to play it and the gun customization was nice but totally didn't matter because you could go through the entire game easily using only the M1A1, but other than that totally fine game.

It's interesting, because I pretty much agree with everything you just said...but I love the game. Maybe I love the game the same reason other people love Deadly Premonition? Because we are insane?

And I just have to say, I fucking STOPPED reading when you fucking complained that his FUCKING MUSTACHE DOESN'T MOVE. Everything before that was a bit too blown out of proportions, but I totally respect all of those complaints. They are issues, even if they don't fucking matter for the actual enjoyment of the game unless your impatient as all hell. Which, if your playing MGS4, is a very bad thing for you to be. 
 
BUT WHAT THE FUCK. Do you have ANY idea how a mustache behaves? Clearly not. At his age, with a mustache that short, its not going to fucking WAVE AROUND IN THE WIND. 
 
I am NOT reading the rest of this. If your going to honestly make a big deal out of that, your can just go stfu. I respect you for being hard on games, I do the same, and maybe if you comb through here and remove all of the batshit complaints (and btw, your not allowed to complain about the MGS plots. Their fucking insane, and its SUPPOSED to be like that), I could respect this a lot more. But you complain about normal ass things, and even some of the strengths of the game. How many games have you seen with better hair than MGS?? At least it moves and doesn't look like something carved of wood like a Bioware game or Bioshock might have.

Thanks but I don't like people telling me how I think.