Did Ed Boon lie about lootboxes?

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#1 Edited by ImmortalSaiyan (4785 posts) -

So I was hearing Jeff talk about MK11 on the bombcast and while it seems fun I was super disappointed to here about its mobile game economy and forced grind. I hate that in every game, but here I feel mislead.

In this video here from only 2 weeks ago at the 7:20 mark Ed boon states the game will not have lootboxes. Yet from the sounds of it the krypt was turned into random lootboxes. Sure you can't spend real money on the currency, but they are lootboxes none the less.

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#2 Posted by Nodima (2602 posts) -

Only kind of. The loot is randomized in the Krypt for each individual player, but the loot table itself is the same for every player. In other words, you can't share coordinates with people to get the good loot and skip the junk like you could in past games, but you're also not at any actual risk of missing out on the stuff you want.

It's a weird sort of half-lootbox system that only adds to the convoluted nature of their economy, but it's not exactly predatory, either, I guess.

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#3 Edited by OurSin_360 (6158 posts) -

If you can't spend money on them they aren't loot boxes, if that's the case diablo has loot boxes...

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#4 Posted by reap3r160 (244 posts) -

Yeah, I think people are misinterpreting what reviewers are saying about the krypt. The loot isn't random, the placement of it is. They aren't lootboxes at all in the traditional sense.

The only thing the new krypt system doesn't let you do is shortcut to the stuff you want out of the gate.

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#5 Posted by ImmortalSaiyan (4785 posts) -

@reap3r160: If the placement of the boxes is random, how is that in effect any different?

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#6 Posted by Marino (7273 posts) -

@immortalsaiyan: Because it's just the location of the box, not the contents. For example, let's say Box #312 has a Sub-Zero mask and axe in it. For me, that box is the first one I ever open right in the entry way of the Krypt. For you, box #312 is the 200th one you found somewhere deep in the Krypt. At the end of the day, if we both open every box in the Krypt, we got the exact same stuff.

It would be different if we both opened every box and I got way better stuff than you did.

Staff Online
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#7 Edited by ImmortalSaiyan (4785 posts) -

@marino: I just watched the "kombat kast" where they clarified that. They also said certain major chests are in set locations which is awesome. I'm very pleased the lootboxes are not what they first seem. However I still find it off putting how the game has like 4 different currencys to be used to unlock different shit. Its needlessly obtuse mobile game design that only exists to frustrate players into spending money. However here you can't even buy them aside from "time crystals" to spend on random BS. so its mostly just busy work for no reason than to waste everyones time and make getting what you want tedious. At least they are trying to fix this mess.

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#8 Posted by darkvare (1027 posts) -

quick question if the loot isn't random then does reloading the boxes means you open boxes that are somewhere else or what?

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#9 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (3662 posts) -

I'm not saying the loot grind in the game is good but I feel like some people who wouldn't even touch that stuff normally are complaining about it. If you are planning to buy this game and are only interested in the story mode, arcade mode, AI vs AI battle and online competitive then none of that loot stuff will ever be a problem.

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#10 Edited by Jesus_Phish (3848 posts) -

@darkvare:

@marino's post explains it. When you open a box you get fixed contents at random. So the first time you open a box, maybe you get box #312, which contains set items that anyone who opens box #312 will get. Then you lock it and open it again, only this time you can't get #312 because you already got it, so you get box #187 instead. Box #187 also has fixed items in it.

In Overwatch or Apex or any other game with money loot boxes - if I get a loot box it will roll on a table of say 1000 items and give me four items completely at random based on the roles.

In MK11, it rolls on a table of say 700 different boxes and whatever number you get, that box has fixed items in it and those fixed items are the same for every single player.

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#12 Edited by ATastySlurpee (665 posts) -

@jonny_anonymous said:

I'm not saying the loot grind in the game is good but I feel like some people who wouldn't even touch that stuff normally are complaining about it. If you are planning to buy this game and are only interested in the story mode, arcade mode, AI vs AI battle and online competitive then none of that loot stuff will ever be a problem.

Its 2019 and ppl need something to complain about. This concept has been around since the early 90s with 'random weapon/item' drops in CRPGs. In game grind IS NOT A NEW CONCEPT. Its just been updated, for better or worse The grind and Krypt isnt the issue in this game. The Towers of Time is INSANELY hard, like unfair and borderline unplayable. The MKX/Injustice 2 'living' towers were actually perfect. The way they are designed in MK11, discourages skill and wants you to rely on 'konsumables'. Also, the game has too many 'kurrencies' (Injustice 2 did too). NR/WB has convoluted the economy more than it needed to be. If your koming to MK11 strictly for the story and online fighting, none of it matters. The problem is if your more a single player fighting game person (like me, I mean I got every character in Injustice 2 to over level 20), you may bounce quick or break some controllers in the process, which is the exact opposite of what NRS wanted. I'm all for a good challenge. I am not up for something that is designed poorly and meant to frustrate me. I'm a pretty die hard MK fan (& NRS) and I would describe my skill as 'average' maybe 'above average' with certain 'kharacters' and I absolutely can't beat some of the kharacter specific towers. For example, There is one where you have to fight Kung Lao and Liu Kang with rockets that hit you about every 8-10 secs, the kharacter that isnt on screen is regen health. 3/4 of my life bar was literally gone within 15 secs of the match. This happened more than once

Now all that being said, a patch is koming by the end of the week that will tweak the Towers of Time. Ed Boon is not happy, just look at his Twitter and the Kombat Kast crew looked visibly tired and shook yesterday, as if they had been getting chewed out for the last 12 hours. But NRS will get this whole thing balanced. Trust me. The issue is the first impression often turn A LOT of people away and in the age of outrage, its going to take A LOT of hard work and goodwill to convince people its fixed. NRS wants buyers to keep playing for the next year. I wouldnt be surprised if MK11 actually has the biggest dropoff of all their releases, which will cause even more problems for future games. I honestly think alot of these issues came from WB and NRS did the best the could with what WB was asking, meaning I genuinely think WB wanted loot boxes and NRS designed it to appease WB but also not screw the konsumer. One of the BAD part of the the gaming industry rears it head yet again. Sigh

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#13 Posted by nutter (2112 posts) -

@jonny_anonymous: That’s me! I don’t have any real interest in playing strangers and my friends are not into fighting games.

I’m going to play the story, do some 1v1 against the AI, tweak some characters, play some towers, etc.

No outrage here!

At the same time, when people willing engage with copious grind for the sake of grind, it kinda blows my mind. I’ll try to unlock a skin or a move or two for my favorite characters, but I do it as long as it’s fun...then I take a break or stop outright.

Gotta stop with grinding for the sake of grinding. Gotta stop with outrage.

At the same time, I’ll gladly take some currency to just unlock some shit and see if fun stuff comes from it.

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#14 Edited by Wolfstein_3D (289 posts) -

There was also this:

"For the in-game currency it will be straight stuff you earn in-game and then spend in game, there will be no actual MTX monetization."

"We try to make it so it's never pay-to-win and it's never pay-to-progress."

source

Apparently pay to skip content =/= pay to progress

Also after seeing how games like CoD, RDR2 and F76 have "tweaked" the economy or straight up added additional MTX after the casual players had moved on, to maximize the revenue from the remaining, more hard core players, games that come with systems like these are a hard pass to me.

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#15 Edited by BoOzak (2573 posts) -

At least none of the shit from the krypt is mandatory to unlock characters and other usefull stuff. (from what I can tell, havent played it) I'm playing Trials Rising at the moment and that game could have been great but the pacing turned it into a damn slog. I feel like half of the reason they shoved ghosts into the game is so you get all these dipshits with their emotes and costumes in your face to try and incentivise you to spend money on lootboxes and thats the reason they want to keep you playing for as long as possible, to break you.

Anyway, I realize I veered off-topic it's just this topic reminded me of it, and my reaction might shed light on why people who havent played the game might complain about it. These practises of grinding at the expense of fun are seeping into more and more games and yes, grinding has been around for awhile. I ground PVP in (vanilla) WoW to get a full epic set of armour and then I ground resources in burning crusade to craft another full epic set. (I wasnt very lucky when it came to loot drops in raids and we didnt have DKP) It's a waste of time, not in the way playing games generally could be considered a waste of time, as in I wasnt having fun, but it's addictive and companies exploit that and for whatever reason people still to this day defend it.

I will say (to loop this back around to MK11) if it's just costumes and emotes, who gives a shit, I felt the same way about DOA6. If the fighting is good in a damn fighting game (and the online isnt too laggy) then thats enough. For me at least.

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#16 Posted by ATastySlurpee (665 posts) -

@boozak said:

At least none of the shit from the krypt is mandatory to unlock characters and other usefull stuff. (from what I can tell, havent played it) I'm playing Trials Rising at the moment and that game could have been great but the pacing turned it into a damn slog. I feel like like half of the reason they shoved ghosts into the game is so you get all these dipshits with their emotes and costumes in your face to try and incentivise you to spend money on lootboxes and thats the reason they want to keep you playing for as long as possible, to break you.

Anyway, I realize I veered off-topic it's just this topic reminded me of it, and my reaction might shed light on why people who havent played the game might complain about it. These practises of grinding at the expense of fun are seeping into more and more games and yes, grinding has been around for awhile. I ground PVP in (vanilla) WoW to get a full epic set of armour and then I ground resources in burning crusade to craft another full epic set. (I wasnt very lucky when it came to loot drops in raids and we didnt have DKP) It's a waste of time, not in the way playing games generally could be considered a waste of time, as in I wasnt having fun, but it's addictive and companies exploit that and for whatever reason people still to this day defend it.

I will say (to loop this back around to MK11) if it's just costumes and emotes, who gives a shit, I felt the same way about DOA6. If the fighting is good in a damn fighting game (and the online isnt too laggy) then thats enough. For me at least.

That part, is in fact , great.

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#17 Posted by ripelivejam (13163 posts) -

I actually like the concept of loot boxes as a gameplay element, not that I would pay for them. Sue me.

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#18 Posted by csl316 (14959 posts) -

Kind of sucks that most of the game is great, but this is what everyone's hung up on. The previous krypts were super grindy, too, and once I realized I probably wouldn't get everything I had a lot more fun with those games.

It's true that MK 11 is even more grindy, so we'll see what the patch addresses. But seeing a review that reads like a 9 turn into 7 because there's a lot to unlock is a bummer. Most of what I saw is cosmetic, and unless you need every shade of Jade's costume you can probably unlock one alternate and live.

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#19 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (3662 posts) -

@atastyslurpee: I guarantee you the majority of the people complaining about the Towers of Time were never going to touch them anyway. Yes, the people that were super into them in Injustice and the hardcore lot are probably genuinely bummed by them but the majority of people are gonna do the Klassic Towers and thats it.

@csl316:If you do Jade's tutorial and you get her best skin anyway.

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#20 Posted by ImmortalSaiyan (4785 posts) -

I'm not saying the loot grind in the game is good but I feel like some people who wouldn't even touch that stuff normally are complaining about it. If you are planning to buy this game and are only interested in the story mode, arcade mode, AI vs AI battle and online competitive then none of that loot stuff will ever be a problem.

that is apologist BS and you know it. Even if you only care about story and online, the game forces you to engage with the crypt to unlock costumes and such, which you see when fighting. Its unreasonable to expect no one to care about the unlocks just because the are gameplay first.

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#21 Posted by Onemanarmyy (4317 posts) -

@jonny_anonymous:

To be fair, this is the case with pretty much every game. People that are really into games & the industry around it will always offer their opinion on the latest big release, whether they'll actually play it themselves or not. Especially when the news is about lootboxes, microtransactions and other potential anti-consumer subjects.

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#22 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (3662 posts) -

@jonny_anonymous said:

I'm not saying the loot grind in the game is good but I feel like some people who wouldn't even touch that stuff normally are complaining about it. If you are planning to buy this game and are only interested in the story mode, arcade mode, AI vs AI battle and online competitive then none of that loot stuff will ever be a problem.

that is apologist BS and you know it. Even if you only care about story and online, the game forces you to engage with the crypt to unlock costumes and such, which you see when fighting. Its unreasonable to expect no one to care about the unlocks just because the are gameplay first.

I'm not saying the loot grind in the game is good

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#23 Posted by ImmortalSaiyan (4785 posts) -

@jonny_anonymous: fair enough. the tone of your message made it sound like its not an issue though unless you as the player, make it one, which I don't see as fair.

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#24 Posted by DasaKamov (1113 posts) -

@atastyslurpee: "koming", "konsumer"...you monster.

(Although I'm wondering why you didn't k-ify "controllers", "cause", "could" or "coming".)

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#25 Posted by dgtlty (1221 posts) -

So did he lie or not?

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#26 Edited by soulcake (2753 posts) -

@dgtlty: probably not at the time they weren't planed, most of this BS is Warner Bros trying to get every penny form MK players.

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#27 Edited by Jesus_Phish (3848 posts) -

@soulcake: That video is from two weeks ago. You think two weeks out of from a games release, they managed to strong arm all this stuff in and have it ready on time? Keeping in mind that one week ago press had copies of the game and could already see all that stuff, just not the prices behind it.

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#28 Posted by dudeglove (13736 posts) -

In this video here from only 2 weeks ago at the 7:20 mark Ed boon states the game will not have lootboxes.

I'll put it down to the intentionally rapid editing but his laugh immediately after that is extremely awkward.

As for the lootbox fiasco, I'm willing to lay that blame more on WB. It's often overlooked and not stressed enough, but when you sign up with a publisher, that publisher will have certain conditions in return for publishing your game.

EA and Activision are rightly given a lot of shit, but less spoken about is Warner Bros. WB's been at it just as much as the other AAAs, and frankly have an appalling history of trying to microtransaction their games out the ass in the past (Arkham, Shadow of Wardor etc.) so I am willing to bet "put these lootboxes in" was one such demand and Netherrealm handled it poorly. Is that fucked up? Yes. Should the games industry unionize so such shit stops happening? Absolutely.

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#29 Edited by Jesus_Phish (3848 posts) -

@dudeglove: I said it in another thread - WB get away with it because they put out one game per year on average that people actually care about. EA put out about 4+ big titles per year that people actually care about so they stay in the public eye longer.

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