I think you die too fast in Nuclear Throne (also it doesn't seem like a great roguelike)

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Strathy

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#51  Edited By Strathy

Nuclear Throne isn't that kind of game, don't compare it to Binding of Isaac and certianly not to FTL. Yes you can die fast and that's tough for some people with poor twitch skills, but on the flip-side you won't ever find yourself in a pointless unsalvagable hole 20 minutes (or more in Isaac) into your run becuase your health or resources are dwindling down out of your control.

You can allways die, you can allways live - the ballance is in the speed of your fingers and tenacity in the moment.

"Flashyn!"

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BladedEdge

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#52  Edited By BladedEdge

@strathy: From what it sounds like, and going by what I've seen of the absolute top-tier players for both the games you site, FTL and Issac. Which you can get into 'no-win' situations, both games do essentially have a skill progression, your own, and baring specifically playing some very bad characters/ship (depending on game) There are plenty of people that have an essentially 99.5% success rate regardless of map/lay out/drops, etc.

This game, while I've not played it, base on what people are saying has some "I had literally no way of surviving that". Spawning next too a melee guy before you can even move, ending up with your only path forward being a long hallway with multiple machine/shotgun enemies firing into it..etc etc. I am sure this game has the same 'you can slowly get better" But..like instead of the best players ever being 99.5 percent to win with anything but the worst characters, its more like 60-80% maybe? And for some poeple..

Like I'm not good at shooters, especially twin-sticks, so I'm not even gonna touch this game, but aside from that I like my rogue likes to have a certain element too them. That being, if I lose, its my fault. If I lose in FTL I know i could have played it smarter. If I lose in Issac, its cause I didn't dodge correctly, etc. This seems like one of those "Woops your dead!" games. Which I assume don't appeal to some people, I know they don't to me.

To me, classic rogue-like is as much about the ability to achieve a perfect run if you play 100% right as it is the randomized element.

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robowitch

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#53  Edited By robowitch

For the folks who are finding returning to 1-1 frustrating, I'd recommend going to 1-? since that might alleviate the irritation. If you don't know what that means: try collecting every chest on 1-1 without killing an enemy (besides maybe maggots?). Big Bandit spawns early and killing him opens a portal to 1-?, a cool Oasis-style zone. It takes you straight to 3-3 for completing it. This might alleviate some of the stress!

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The_Nubster

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@citizencoffeecake said:

@goomba_stomper said:

@mike: no I didn't but I'm just not feeling that desire to do any of that, especially if it's all our mostly the same stuff just harder.

There are new bosses and crazier weapons when you loop. But I get you, the variation of something like Binding of Isaac is simply not what this game does.

I think it continues to be weird that people compare the game to Binding of Isaac at all. The dual joystick gameplay controls and feels way different. The way there are secret interlude levels along the way (2-?, 3-?, etc.) is more like Spelunky (the black market, etc.). The number of possible items and upgrades in Spelunky and Nuclear Throne are much closer than the hundreds of possible items and upgrades in Binding of Isaac. The fact that the entire level is one interconnected whole where shit can come and find you is a common element of both games, whereas BoI is very explicitly sectioned off like Zelda.

This game is absolutely more Spelunky than BoI. It's a set progression with randomly generated worlds in it, a smaller pool of enemies and items, and a much greater emphasis on pure skill and split-second decision-making. Just like there are things in Spelunky which can kill you immediately, or stun-lock you into death, there are times in Nuclear Throne where one mistimed swing or bad step can mean you're dead and have to restart. It's not really about the exploration or which items you pick up or exploiting the RNG like BoI.

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BrianP

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I'm feeling the OP on this one. The game felt, to me, like it had really low replayability which sucks for a game where playing it over and over is kind of the thing. I might just not be a fan of rogue-likes, but to me Rogue Legacy did it perfectly where things could go bad and you could start over but you still were making an overall progession. After dying a few times to what I felt were cheap things in NT I just decided to stop playing.

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squashysquish

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@bladededge: I have the exact opposite feeling. The power of your character relative to opponents can vary so widely in Isaac based on what kind of drops you get that it can become a total chore to whittle down enemies' health while staying alive, and I often felt like I lost simply because I had a shitty loadout. In Nuclear Throne, your run ultimately hinges on how well you can position yourself and aim at enemies. You can beat the game with most of the starting weapons and virtually any mutation loadout if you're familiar with the enemies' behaviors. There might be a spawn in 50 that is so difficult to navigate safely that one could consider it an unreasonable difficulty spike, but generally you're left with more than enough time to carve a path to security if you calmly and quickly clear out enemies. I feel the similarities between Isaac and NT are really overstated, though. They're both permadeath proc-genned shooters, but the pace of play and design methodology are so different, it's like trying to compare The Last of Us to Ratchet and Clank because they're both third person shooters.

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sagesebas

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I dunno I was with you too but after about 4 hours I think the games is genius. Started off getting killed by the big bandit every time to beating him very reliably. I think the guns have a crazy amount of variety in the way they feel and the tactics to using different guns against different enemies.

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squashysquish

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@sagesebas: You definitely reach a point where the first half of the game becomes second nature. I typically kill Big Bandit before he can even get an attack off, which is a refreshing power trip after getting whipped by random enemies for hours haha. Plus, if you get bored of that and want to make the game brutal again, you can skip up to 5 levels by opening the chests in a desert level without killing enemies, which spawns Big Bandit early. Killing him quickly will open 1-?, a shortcut stage that brings you right to Big Dog with none of the rads and weapons you normally would have earned on the way.

The weapons are quite varied and fun; The endgame weapons especially can completely change the feel of a run, and different combinations handle certain levels better than others.

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KentonClay

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#59  Edited By KentonClay

So I love Nuclear Throne, one of my top 3 favorite games of the year. It's absolutely my go-to game when I hit some writers blocks or get frustrated with my work and need to take a 20 minute break.

However, it's definitely the kind of game where if you can't laugh at your own deaths, you're gonna have a bad time pretty quick. Even with over a hundred hours, I still occasionally blow myself up on a cactus, or stand too close to a car in the scrapyard while killing the last enemy. And the game WILL spawn you into absurd situations that seem unwinnable, but I've reached the point where I can see ways in which almost every death could have been avoided.

Sometimes it feels super unfair, but the same people tend to dominate the leaderboards, and can consistently get pretty ridiculous scores. Some of them are youtubers, and they can breeze through situations that would have killed me 9/10 times.

Also, here's a secret tip for being hella OP at Nuclear Throne: While playing as Y.V., hit the 'b' key

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squashysquish

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Also, here's a secret tip for being hella OP at Nuclear Throne: While playing as Y.V., hit the 'b' key

You really should put a spoiler tag on shit like this, it has game-breaking levels of awesomeness ;P

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