" @atomic_dumpling said:

" This is probably the only place in the whole WWW that took these "benchmarks" at face value. That's quite an achievement. "

/g/ got trolled heavily by these benches.
@ryanwho said:

" I'm just gonna wait for whatever the hell we end up with when Nvidia and ATI merge because they seriously can't keep doing what they're doing through a recession. "

Then it's a monopoly in videocard market. Fuck year paying 500 US for a low end card. "

" @Kblt said:

" @atomic_dumpling said:

" This is probably the only place in the whole WWW that took these "benchmarks" at face value. That's quite an achievement. "

/g/ got trolled heavily by these benches.
@ryanwho said:

" I'm just gonna wait for whatever the hell we end up with when Nvidia and ATI merge because they seriously can't keep doing what they're doing through a recession. "

Then it's a monopoly in videocard market. Fuck year paying 500 US for a low end card. "

Aren't they price fixing already? I remember reading about that. If rival companies are coercing pricefixing, the monopoly's already there. You said you'd pay 500 dollars? For all you know you're already paying twice as much as you would if Nvidia and ATI weren't plotting together and real capitalism was allowed to take place. If companies arent directly attacking each other in the ads, its not capitalism. "

" @Kblt said:

" @atomic_dumpling said:

" This is probably the only place in the whole WWW that took these "benchmarks" at face value. That's quite an achievement. "

/g/ got trolled heavily by these benches.
@ryanwho said:

" I'm just gonna wait for whatever the hell we end up with when Nvidia and ATI merge because they seriously can't keep doing what they're doing through a recession. "

Then it's a monopoly in videocard market. Fuck year paying 500 US for a low end card. "

Aren't they price fixing already? I remember reading about that. If rival companies are coercing pricefixing, the monopoly's already there. For all you know you're already paying twice as much as you would if Nvidia and ATI weren't plotting together and real capitalism was allowed to take place.

If companies arent directly attacking each other in the ads, its not capitalism. "

 You said you'd pay 500 dollars?

I don't see why ppl are complaining about the prices, I remember back then everyone keeps going to ati cards, then they complain about heat and stuff. Just go with nvidia, pay for quality. I know that's not what ppl wants to hear, I watched countless refresh of videocards on many forums to see the same complaints. These cards are just release for two reasons, one is to be better than the competition and second to lower the price of existing cards. They cards are for enthusist who needs to have the newest stuff and to play crysis a bit better and driving prices down. That is their business practice, nvidia isn't here to give you the best bang for the buck like ati where ppl complain about various stuff, rather they are here to give you the most quality, nothing wrong with that.

"

nvidia, pay for quality.

"

"I don't see why ppl are complaining about the prices, I remember back then everyone keeps going to ati cards, then they complain about heat and stuff. Just go with nvidia, pay for quality. I know that's not what ppl wants to hear, I watched countless refresh of videocards on many forums to see the same complaints. These cards are just release for two reasons, one is to be better than the competition and second to lower the price of existing cards. They cards are for enthusist who needs to have the newest stuff and to play crysis a bit better and driving prices down. That is their business practice, nvidia isn't here to give you the best bang for the buck like ati where ppl complain about various stuff, rather they are here to give you the most quality, nothing wrong with that."

@Al3xand3r:
At those times I had a ati 850 pro, the worst card i've ever used in my entire life. It was already obsolete the week I bought it because there was new Hd2600 cards and I can't even run half life 2 for god sakes or counter strike well. Later on, there were problems with heat with the hd4850 where the store told me, half the customers were getting artifacts because there was something wrong with the card. I don't remember what it was. I belive heat causes stuttering and it's common with ati cards. I also disagree with you nvidia will really make alot of money selling the newest cards though, no one is going to keep spending $400 or more for the top of the line card. Yes I own a ton of nvidia cards over ati cards, however I find nvidia cards to be slightly slower than the competition, however it's very stable and it doesn't stutter. I find ati cards goes really fast, then slow and fast, then slow, which causes all sort of hiccups during games. Yes I watched a ton of crysis videos at the time I was at gametrailers, where ppl posted crysis warhead running on their ati cards. I will always side with nvidia and trust me, they don't release $400 cards and expect everyone will go out and buy them. If there is no competition and price drops, the market for videocards will not make money. They will just stay with their current card. Not everyone buys the top of the line. I have to disagree with you. Ati has to do more to earn my trust, the first thing they need to do is not speed, which they are good at, it's dealing with their heat issue.  
 
If you look at the market shares, nvidia is always on top regardless, they must be doing something right to earn ppl's trust. Yes i've heard of heat issues with the gtx280 though, however I side with nvidia because I trust them, I could care less about value and speed if there are problems with heat which causes stuttering. Sure they lose for a while to ati, then they win again all the time, it's just those cards are more expensive.

No idea what you're arguing against. When did I say prices won't drop? When did I say Nvidia won't make money? What are you talking about? And lol @ implying Nvidia don't release expensive cards. Lolwut? All competing companies have cards for all price ranges. How about this? You think their upcoming top of the line model will be cheaper than their current top of the line model? Keep dreaming.

That the 850 couldn't run Half-Life 2 well sounds like complete bullshit since Half-Life 2 run well on much older and low budget ATI cards. But ok, perhaps you had a defective unit. Plenty of Nvidia models have been riddled with issues, that you didn't come across them or that you came across an ATI model which may have had such issues (not that it couldn't be user error in many instances, fitting a beast of a card in a crappily cooled cramped case - I'm not saying it's what you did) doesn't mean one company has a better track record than the other. Proclaiming brand loyalty before their new models are even out is quite silly. Always go where the best bung for your buck is. Just last year Nvidia had plenty of issues with overheating on laptop cards for example, so widespread it was actually acknowledged by the company even. They've had other issues with past models. Google. As for market share, Nvidia has been in the field longer, therefor has more fanboys proclaiming who the best is before the cards are out. ATI only really became (once again) competitive in the performance graphics cards field with the advent of the Radeon cards, 9700 Pro and such. That they managed to take that much market share from the dominant force shows how good ATI did/does.

I don't consider laptop cards to be gaming cards, that is irrelevent. Also it's about trust, ati has to win back my trust and I don't even think they are even aware of these issues. Where they use gddr5 ram in their cards which causes alot of heat with such a cheap looking heatsink. It has nothing to do with the case cooling, which doesn't adress the heat generated from the cards, rather it only exaust heat away from the card and cools the outside a bit. I know this because one of my cards themal paste dried out, I replaced the heatsink and thermal paste and realised case cooling has nothing to do with it. If anything, I wish ati will have a better heatsink, that might solve the problem and win me over to buy another ati card. I wouldn't mind picking up a hd4890 right now, it's cheap and powerful, however it has this really shitty heatsink that was on one of my older 8800gts 640mb card, instead with cheap red see through plastic and lousy heat pipe cooling. My point is sure ati seems like good value, however it doesn't even acknowledge these problems, the same problems I had in my earlier years of pc gaming. You can see how nvidia cards has a better heatsink and not some cheap clear plastic with a small fan, the cards are much bigger. Also their waranty is shit compared to nvidia companies like evga and xfx. They don't support physX, their drivers are lousy compared to nvidia, the list goes on.

 Look I know how much ppl likes ati, I argued with alot of ppl on gametrailers about it, I just feel I can really trust nvidia. They never let me down at all yet, I don't get stutters and my only complaint is the speed of their cards at times. Yes I am a brand loyalist with nvidia. I will not go for whatever is the best bang for your buck, I could care less about having heat problems and stuttering. I will just wait for nvidia's refresh. I am just sayiing I am aware how passionate ppl feels for their ati cards and I know that from many forums. Nvidia is the leader in market shares and they always win out at the end having the better card just like for the gtx300 series, ati's advantages are only temporary imo. Also I will be looking into ati's newer cards and looking for problems later on, I will do more research.

Lol @ you at implying what I call "best bung for the buck" is actually "stuttering and heat issues" to actually have an argument. Get real.

And lol @ saying "look I know how much ppl likes ati" to imply I'm some kind of fanboy like you when I keep saying I now have a GTX285.

The laptop cards was an example (and yes, plenty of them ARE gaming cards). Like I said, google for more. There are plenty to go around.

Whatever, my arguement is ati cards has lousy heat issues, lousy drivers, lousy support from warranty and it loses to nvidia's cards all the time in framerates and marketshares and only has a temporary advantage being cheap and the best bang for your buck riddled with problems. Your arguement is you should buy whatever is around the corner at the time, with all these problems and how you said they are there to sell their latest cards to everyone who isn't rich btw rather than driving prices down of existing cards for a more general consumer, which I disagree with.  
 
My other point is ppl shouldn't complain how expensive nvidia cards are compared to ati cards, I can't belive they were complaining about it and stated that ati is better because it gives you better value. My point is who cares about value, the value is they will get cheaper cards from existing models when these new card arrive pushing down the price. Don't compromise with ati cards or complain about the price of new nvidia cards.

My argument speaks for itself, it doesn't need a translation that is twisting it into things I never said, implied, or hinted at in any way. When did I say you should buy what is around the corner? I said buy what is the best bung for your buck. That means at the time you're buying, not at the time you're waiting for something new to come up, if it comes up. That includes being a card that doesn't have issues, and a card that offers good and steady overall performance for your price range. I didn't buy top of the line, which at the time would have been a GTX 295 or an ATI 4970, I bought a (big) step below that, a GTX285. If the best bung for your buck when you buy a new card is an Nvidia card, then go for an Nvidia card, if it's an ATI card then go for an ATI card without putting brand loyalty (just call it fanboyism honestly) in the equation. Buy what's best for you, not for Nvidia or ATI. You're the one already proclaiming Nvidia the winner when their cards have yet to arrive to even properly compare them to ATI's solutions.

It's worth nothing there are tons of companies making cards with both ATI and Nvidia chips, actual Nvidia or ATI cards are few and far between in comparison, and those companies have varying quality results, so if you find an issue with a company's GTX XXX or 5XXX it doesn't mean all have it.

That makes my SLI setup of the 295s seem obsolete *sad face*

I know your opinion is very common, I heard it many times before about going with whatever is the best atm, I will respect your opinion. My other point is timing shouldn't be an issue, ati is always there half the time with their percieved advantage and value, it's just like flipping a coin on which card you should get because ati is always there. Ati = compromise. Trust me i've been there, I used to own a 9800GX2 it was the best card at the time, I also bought a 8800gts 640m and 9800GTX at the same year, other ppl thought I was crazy wasting my money like that, I was obsessed. Now I will only upgrade if necessary and learned from my mistake. I had the best card, second and third. Now I realise it's better to let these newer cards drive the price down and I noticed the trend, I follow the prices all the time doing my research on nvidia cards. Your card will probally be around $235 in half a year. Maybe it's my opinion, I just skip the ati cards because it's problematic. However if you disagree, I will respect your opinion. I doubt you would want to buy the gtx295 considering the price right now regardless which also shows my point that the top of the line card isn't exactly what is getting these manufactor's money, rather the purpose is to drive the price down of existing cards which you disagreed with. Videocards are a big market and everyone benifits from all these new cards driving the price down, if you don't agree with that, I don't know what to say.
 
I factor in the heatsink, waranty, drivers and other features like physX, not timing and trends. Still when the problems are adressed with ati and I can't find any problems with a card or heatsink, heat and stuttering, which I claim is a trend, I will consider buying an ati gpu. I also remember of other problems how the hd4870's idle and load temperture was almost the same, at 70 degrees or more and how you couldn't use rivatuner to increase fanspeed. I think it's adressed now, however there were many ati problems.

Uh, what? Now you're implying I'm saying you should upgrade all the time? Are you reading my comments at all? What you claim to do with your upgrading is what I (everyone into PCs?) do, I simply don't put any brand loyalty in the equation and buy what is best for me (for my needs, for my budget). I never argued you should buy what is best or what is around the corner yet you have paragraphs worth of arguing that in these comments.

Whatever, all this started because you disagreed with one of my post about refreshing of cards or how ppl shouldn't buy ati. You are also claiming you didn't say stuff you clearly implied. You said the best bang for your buck, which I claim is something ati always has, with questionable quality. However if you want to drop this discussion, I'm all for it. Just know I trust nvidia 100% and it served me well over the years, I am just letting others know of my opinion and imo they are the real winners of the market of videocards and framerates.  
 
Dispite what you said, you are implying you shouldn't buy just nvidia, rather what is the best value at the time including ati cards, I get it, I just diagree with it. Yeah maybe I will buy an ati card, with a new fan cooling grill heatsink to not run into any problems, great choice. While i'm at it, why not buy a mac like so many others claim is just as good as pc, even though they are not winning in market shares and has alot of problems. That's the problem with ati, they market themselves as having the best value all the time, when it's really just compromise with alot of problems. Laptop cards are irrelevent, I don't game on a laptop and I don't consider that an issue with real gaming gpus on desktop pc's, to me laptop gaming is second rate and it doesn't really exist for me because I don't have a laptop or care for it.  
 
If I bought a hd4890 which is the best bang for my buck right now, in half a year your card will be the same price and better value thanks to newer cards driving down the price of nvidia cards making that ati card irrelevent. It's really a timing issue, ati is trying to show good value and decent power because that's the only angle they can market their clear plastic heatsink cards before nvidia trashes them with their expensive more powerful gpu. You don't always need to keep up with technology which you can't keep up with. Every six months for my observation, your newest card will be obsolete.
 
The only advantage with ati is price, that's it and marginally better framerates against nvidias second best cards. I might not quote your msg perfectly, however I understand your msg. Best bang for your buck usually means best performance and best price, which means lower, not higher since everyone else in the world including many benchmark review sites says the same thing. Most ati cards are like that btw I acknoledge that, that's how they are marketed since they can't stand toe to to with nvidia. Lower price and performance for second best cards, your saying that's not what best bang for your buck is? Your saying it's highest price and best performance? Why use best bang for your buck? it's not even the best value for the most expensive cards. Maybe you didn't say that, maybe you did. No one is twisting your words, you just have a different definition of the word best bang for your buck than everyone else, don't blame it on me. I thought you were talking about cheapest price with best performance, not best performance and highest price. I'm glad i'm entertaing you, go buy ati cards for all I care, it wouldn't change anything of how I spend my money on gpus regardless. Also you don't always need to buy the newest series like what you are doing with your gtx285, your card will always be obsolete in half a year anyways. That's what I learned, just set a goal on which games you need to run and stick with that. If your card meets my goal in half a year, imo that's all I need. Not the newest ati best value and performance trend. Imo all these videocards are simply for one game, that's crysis and that's the truth, we all want to run it slightly better yet every other game runs flawlessly. I could compare ati to amd cpu's instead of macs, they are second rate and why should anyone care about their value and second rate performance? You don't, you are using a 8500 dual core, which is a good choice, a choice that is good as your nvidia gtx285.

"You are also claiming you didn't say stuff you clearly implied."

Thread turned into a college essay copypaste. Nice job, guys.

" @HitmanAgent47 said:

"

If anything it would drive the prices lower for existing cards, that's how videocards are marketed.

"

And that's why I always play catch up, rather than forking out silly amounts of money on new cards.  "

" Wow...well good thing I am still happy with my GTX 260 for now. Maybe I'll wait a few years till I pick up one of those beasts. "

Pretty much fake

"Why did they test Call of Pripyat with dx11 off?  ATI is master race until I see ENVYdia's overpriced card launch next year(It'll be priced the same as 5970, you heard it here first). "

...And watch it cost $600. I can't even afford a PS3, how can I afford one of these suckers? I doubt I can find anybody willing to pay enough for my pair of 9800 gxt+'s to make a significant dent.

" @Chyro said:

There is, just not your main studios anymore.  More of the niche titles out there are pushing PC graphics forward now.   Shattered Horizons, STALKER CoP for instance require good rigs to run.  And Crysis 2 will push the standard forward again.  I don't think it's at a standstill.  But most games out there aren't pushing the boundaries like they once were.    Irregardless, it's not all about the graphics for me.  Game play is vastly more important.

Except STALKER CoP looks like total shit, graphically, and Shattered Horizon isn't impressive visually either.  Dirt 2's DX11 visuals are a complete joke...  Maybe Crysis 2 will bring the high end fidelity, but overall PC game graphics are at a standstill.  At this point I'll probably stick with my GTX260 core 216 until well after the next generation of consoles... "

There may not be many games that achieve the graphical fidelity of the best looking titles out there but to say better performance gear is useless is pretty stupid. Not every company has the same technical or even artistic know how so their games may not look as good if you look at individual pieces yet have just as heavy or even heavier overheard for other reasons (scope/scale/physics/ai/etc/the actual graphics and the way each of these was implemented with the particular studio's know how) based on what they try to achieve. Sure it would be nice if everyone managed to be on the same stellar level of development but reality isn't that good. Some of the games mentioned, like STALKER, prove this instead of make the opposite argument attempted. Better technology at least enables the creation of better visuals than would be possible for them, even if their skill or other factors don't allow them to completely max out everything that could, in theory, be possible, like those "joke" visuals.

Sorry guys I've been out these past few days because of exams. I see that these have been confirmed fake, which I will update first post with. Feel free to keep on discussing Fermi-related matters though if you want.

We're in graphics standstill, but it doesn't stop chip devs to add more features like 3D to their graphics cards. In near future I believe  3D tech is pretty widely used in games, but I'm an optimist.

I see Nvidia is finally moving from GDDR2 to GDDR5, unless the spec pic is fake as well. Anywhoo, I probably won't be upgrading my card when I do another build at the tail end of 2010. My GTX 260 suits me just fine at the moment and before that card I was using a Geforce 7000 series card, so I'd say my current one has quite a few years of life left.

" I see Nvidia is finally moving from GDDR2 to GDDR5, unless the spec pic is fake as well. Anywhoo, I probably won't be upgrading my card when I do another build at the tail end of 2010. My GTX 260 suits me just fine at the moment and before that card I was using a Geforce 7000 series card, so I'd say my current one has quite a few years of life left. "

" Can i assume that the Stalker Clear Sky test isnt very accurate because, as a russian made game, it might not be optimized well, so will automatically get lower framerates? "