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    The PC (Personal Computer) is a highly configurable and upgradable gaming platform that, among home systems, sports the widest variety of control methods, largest library of games, and cutting edge graphics and sound capabilities.

    "PC gaming not what it used to be" says Carmack

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    xruntime

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    #1  Edited By xruntime

    http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=194938

    If I had to guess, I think the reason why games don't sell as good on PC is because people tend to stick with one game for months at a time. This is my fifth month of Team Fortress 2, and besides a couple single player games that I just finished and got over with most of my time has been invested in that one game. In consoles, people seem to go through a new game every week. There are hundreds of thousands of people who still play CS 1.6 for crying out loud! And even millions that play World of Warcraft, Age of Conan, and Runescape.

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    deactivated-5c5cdba6e0b96

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    But I guess you could say the same for Consoles, Oblivion lasted me a good few months as did the Orange Box and Call Of Duty 4. I think PC gaming has decreased because of the cost to get an actually half decent gaming rig, when you can just get a $299 360.

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    PHO3NiiX

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    #3  Edited By PHO3NiiX

    ZOMG COLOR! GTFO OUT OF MY SCREEN NAO!!111!!1!!!!

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    Colonel_Cool

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    #4  Edited By Colonel_Cool

    I don't think this is such a negative thing. He says that they are no longer making decisions based off of the PC, which is already apparent with their Tech 5 engine being focused on multiplatform compatibility. I trust id to continue to bring great content onto the PC.

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    whyzenheimer

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    #5  Edited By whyzenheimer

    John Carmack also isn't the designer he used to be, but the world keeps on turning and he keeps on running his mouth.  He needs to get his ass back in the kitchen.  And by kitchen I mean the cage they should lock him in until he finishes Doom IV.

    I game on my PC and my consoles daily and they're both ideal for different experiences.

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    Gunraidan

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    #6  Edited By Gunraidan
    xruntime said:
    "http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=194938

    If I had to guess, I think the reason why games don't sell as good on PC
    is because people tend to stick with one game for months at a time. This is my fifth month of Team Fortress 2, and besides a couple single player games that I just finished and got over with most of my time has been invested in that one game. In consoles, people seem to go through a new game every week. There are hundreds of thousands of people who still play CS 1.6 for crying out loud! And even millions that play World of Warcraft, Age of Conan, and Runescape.
    "
    Wait wait what?
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    albaker

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    #7  Edited By albaker

    As long as the PC has Diablo 3, Starcraft 2 and Spore, PC gaming is WAAAAAYYYY ahead of consoles. Hell, it's getting GTAIV and even some of the 360 exclusives end up being on PC.

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    MattyFTM

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    #8  Edited By MattyFTM  Moderator

    It isn't what it used to be. It is changing but I think its changing for the best. Small indie games are being given a much better chance with platforms like steam, which gives small games companies a way to make money and get into the business.

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    xruntime

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    #9  Edited By xruntime

    @Gunraiden? I don't think you can debate that games sell less on PC - there are statistics.

    albaker, but it's losing things too. Crysis will not be an exclusive, Madden 2009 is not even on PC anymore.

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    albaker

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    #10  Edited By albaker

    Yeah, I believe it has it's advantages and disadvantages.

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    Gunraidan

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    #11  Edited By Gunraidan
    xruntime said:
    "@Gunraiden? I don't think you can debate that games sell less on PC - there are statistics.

    Not really. PC is one of the strongest software moving platforms out there. It's just that in America they don't move many units. By statistics it moves the most.
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    xruntime

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    #12  Edited By xruntime
    Gunraidan said:
    "xruntime said:
    "@Gunraiden? I don't think you can debate that games sell less on PC - there are statistics.

    Not really. PC is one of the strongest software moving platforms out there. It's just that in America they don't move many units. By statistics it moves the most."
    Besides MMORPGs, has any PC game *recently* sold 8 million copies like Halo and GTA?

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    Gunraidan

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    #13  Edited By Gunraidan
    xruntime said:
    "Gunraidan said:
    "xruntime said:
    "@Gunraiden? I don't think you can debate that games sell less on PC - there are statistics.

    Not really. PC is one of the strongest software moving platforms out there. It's just that in America they don't move many units. By statistics it moves the most."
    Besides MMORPGs, has any PC game *recently* sold 8 million copies like Halo and GTA?

    "
    So you try to "prove" that PC gaming is weaker then console gaming by taking away the massive sellers ( a ridiculously high number at that which is reached only once in a couple years in gaming)? Hell I could spin that and say besides Shooters, Nintendo games, and GTA what console games have sold 8 or even 5 million copies? And did GTA even reach that number? Either way if you want big sellers the PC has them. Crysis has well sold over 3 million copies according t PC Gamer Mag,The Orange Box was a multi-million seller selling significantly more on PC then consoles and the game has demostrated far more stronger legs on the PC then consoles, I could easily go on, but in actuality PC Gaming is growing.
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    Demyx

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    #14  Edited By Demyx
    Bucketdeth said:
    "But I guess you could say the same for Consoles, Oblivion lasted me a good few months as did the Orange Box and Call Of Duty 4. I think PC gaming has decreased because of the cost to get an actually half decent gaming rig, when you can just get a $299 360."

    agreed. I like to concentrate on games for the most part until I either get bored or beat it.
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    xruntime

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    #15  Edited By xruntime
    Gunraidan said:
    "xruntime said:
    "Gunraidan said:
    "xruntime said:
    "@Gunraiden? I don't think you can debate that games sell less on PC - there are statistics.

    Not really. PC is one of the strongest software moving platforms out there. It's just that in America they don't move many units. By statistics it moves the most."
    Besides MMORPGs, has any PC game *recently* sold 8 million copies like Halo and GTA?

    "
    So you try to "prove" that PC gaming is weaker then console gaming by taking away the massive sellers ( a ridiculously high number at that which is reached only once in a couple years in gaming)? Hell I could spin that and say besides Shooters, Nintendo games, and GTA what console games have sold 8 or even 5 million copies? And did GTA even reach that number? Either way if you want big sellers the PC has them. Crysis has well sold over 3 million copies according t PC Gamer Mag,The Orange Box was a multi-million seller selling significantly more on PC then consoles and the game has demostrated far more stronger legs on the PC then consoles, I could easily go on, but in actuality PC Gaming is growing."
    Look man, I'm a PC gamer, always been a PC gamer. PC gaming for the win. But lets be realistic here - companies wouldn't be prioritizing the console versions if they didn't profit more off of them (by selling more copies). So even if you contest the statistics, apparently the marketing divisions at EA and Microsoft are arriving to the same conclusion.

    I think overall, when you count the games people have stuck with for years - PC gaming is bigger. But as for actual sales of new games, from what I've seen consoles trump PC. I've never heard Crysis selling 3 million copies, btw...Wikipedia says 1.5 million and that's the highest I've heard anywhere else, too. As for asking why Orange Box didn't sell more on consoles, it's like asking why Halo 2 didn't sell that well on PC.  Orange Box hasn't received a single update besides bug fixes, while PC's version gets updates every other day. Console users just stick with COD4 + Halo + Gears of War + GTA IV + MSG4, games whose main platform is the console.

    So my main point is, if there are more sales, and more profit for companies developing on the PC, why do so many publishers prioritize the console version or even ditch a PC version (Madden)?
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    duxup

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    #16  Edited By duxup

    He's really getting in on the ground floor here recognizing that PC gaming isn't what it used to be isn't he.

    Maybe next week he will clue us in on that whole Google search engine / apps he has been trying out, that's gonna be big!

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    HitNRun

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    #17  Edited By HitNRun
    Gunraidan said:
    "xruntime said:
    "Gunraidan said:

    Besides MMORPGs, has any PC game *recently* sold 8 million copies like Halo and GTA?

    "
    So you try to "prove" that PC gaming is weaker then console gaming by taking away the massive sellers ( a ridiculously high number at that which is reached only once in a couple years in gaming)? Hell I could spin that and say besides Shooters, Nintendo games, and GTA what console games have sold 8 or even 5 million copies? And did GTA even reach that number? Either way if you want big sellers the PC has them. Crysis has well sold over 3 million copies according t PC Gamer Mag,The Orange Box was a multi-million seller selling significantly more on PC then consoles and the game has demostrated far more stronger legs on the PC then consoles, I could easily go on, but in actuality PC Gaming is growing."
    That's not really reality. From your own article:

    ""Retail numbers also support the theory that PC games are on the decline. NPD Group says that while North Americans spent $18.8 billion on game software in retail stores last year, just $910 million went to PC games, down from $970 million the year before. So, PC games are roughly 5% of retail sales. It sounds a lot like a death nil.""

    The article goes on to say, basically, "PC isn't dead because of WoW and casual games and because the Orange Box is a lot of fun (even if people only paid for it once last year and a third of them probably pirated it).

    Which is the problem. Aside from one or two games, PC gaming is in the toilet. Those "casual games" that are so last yearare worth a lot of money as a whole (more like a horde), but very little individually. WoW is a blockbuster, but that's just one company getting that dough, and it came out almost four years ago.
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    TheOGVandalvideo

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    #18  Edited By TheOGVandalvideo
    HitNRun said:

    Which is the problem. Aside from one or two games, PC gaming is in the toilet. Those "casual games" that are so last yearare worth a lot of money as a whole (more like a horde), but very little individually. WoW is a blockbuster, but that's just one company getting that dough, and it came out almost four years ago."

    There are statistics out there that directly contrast everything you just said. According to the PCGA, once you include digital distribution, the PC grossed 3billion in the year 2007. In contrast, consoles grossed 5 billion (all combined) last year. In other words, comparatively speaking, the PC is the single highest grossing platform in the industry. Not to mention it grew nearly 48% from the year 2006. While PC gaming is still down from what it was in 2004, it has had three consecutive years of growth.
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    Soap

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    #19  Edited By Soap

    can some one please give carmack the no shit award for finally twigging what we've known for years

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    Gunraidan

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    #20  Edited By Gunraidan
    xruntime said:

    Look man, I'm a PC gamer, always been a PC gamer. PC gaming for the win. But lets be realistic here - companies wouldn't be prioritizing the console versions if they didn't profit more off of them (by selling more copies). So even if you contest the statistics, apparently the marketing divisions at EA and Microsoft are arriving to the same conclusion.

    I think overall, when you count the games people have stuck with for years - PC gaming is bigger. But as for actual sales of new games, from what I've seen consoles trump PC. I've never heard Crysis selling 3 million copies, btw...Wikipedia says 1.5 million and that's the highest I've heard anywhere else, too. As for asking why Orange Box didn't sell more on consoles, it's like asking why Halo 2 didn't sell that well on PC.  Orange Box hasn't received a single update besides bug fixes, while PC's version gets updates every other day. Console users just stick with COD4 + Halo + Gears of War + GTA IV + MSG4, games whose main platform is the console.

    So my main point is, if there are more sales, and more profit for companies developing on the PC, why do so many publishers prioritize the console version or even ditch a PC version (Madden)?"
    First off I'd think that PC Gamer UK is a far better source then Wikipedia. Second off the reason why PC sales aren't as high as consoles is just as you listed. You are comparing all consoles that include 4 viable platforms (Wii, 360, PS3, and PS3) vs. the PC which is a single platform. It's as Vandal just stated PC gaming as a single platform makes up more then half of what consoles make. Sure it may be behind 4 of the platform but it is still ahead then any one of them.

    EDIT - Reply to HitNRun's source...they listed Aquaria as a casual game. :|

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    BigBoss1911

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    #21  Edited By BigBoss1911

    Its probably mainly because of piracy.

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    BigBoss1911

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    #22  Edited By BigBoss1911

    Its probably mainly because of piracy.

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    xruntime

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    #23  Edited By xruntime
    Gunraidan said:
    "xruntime said:
    So my main point is, if there are more sales, and more profit for companies developing on the PC, why do so many publishers prioritize the console version or even ditch a PC version (Madden)?"
    First off I'd think that PC Gamer UK is a far better source then Wikipedia. Second off the reason why PC sales aren't as high as consoles is just as you listed. You are comparing all consoles that include 4 viable platforms (Wii, 360, PS3, and PS3) vs. the PC which is a single platform. It's as Vandal just stated PC gaming as a single platform makes up more then half of what consoles make. Sure it may be behind 4 of the platform but it is still ahead then any one of them.

    EDIT - Reply to HitNRun's source...they listed Aquaria as a casual game. :|

    "
    That still didn't answer my question

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    brukaoru

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    #24  Edited By brukaoru
    BigBoss1911 said:
    "Its probably mainly because of piracy."
    This is what I was going to say. PC game sales are affected heavily by piracy, it's a lot easier now then it was years ago to pirate PC games.
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    Clean

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    #25  Edited By Clean

    well everyone is pirating games so they can't make a decent profit

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    mrhankey

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    #26  Edited By mrhankey

    I think sometimes we see the evolution of pc gaming and its current predicament, which we perceive as death. In all reality we need to learn how to adapt to the new market otherwise it will be us pc gamers left out in the cold to shiver ourselves into a catatonic state. So please everyone please talking about the demise or death of pc gaming, it is simply evolving. Yes the "pc" doesn't have a lot of exclusives nor can you say it's a "platform" because of the varied hardware out there. The pc is a utility used for more than just gaming, but let us realizes that for the most part the pc version of a game created by Id or Valve and even Bethesda will always be superior to its console counterpart.

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    HitNRun

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    #27  Edited By HitNRun
    TheOGVandalvideo said:
    "HitNRun said:

    Which is the problem. Aside from one or two games, PC gaming is in the toilet. Those "casual games" that are so last yearare worth a lot of money as a whole (more like a horde), but very little individually. WoW is a blockbuster, but that's just one company getting that dough, and it came out almost four years ago."

    There are statistics out there that directly contrast everything you just said. According to the PCGA, once you include digital distribution, the PC grossed 3billion in the year 2007. In contrast, consoles grossed 5 billion (all combined) last year. In other words, comparatively speaking, the PC is the single highest grossing platform in the industry. Not to mention it grew nearly 48% from the year 2006. While PC gaming is still down from what it was in 2004, it has had three consecutive years of growth."

    What I said was that while PC gaming might  have big sales numbers when you put everything in one giant statistical pot, that doesn't mean it's doing OK as an industry. You say that, according to the PCGA, PC games are worth 3 bn a year. But if you take out JUST WoW (1 - 1.5 bn/yr) and casual games that make very little money individually but are worth over $2 bn/yr, you're left with a very, very small (apparently negative) slice of the pie in the "other" category, and that includes all other MMOs and games like Proctologist Tycoon that used to be what gamers called "casual."

    Really, this isn't even arguable. It's self-evident. Any PC gamer (and I just bought my first console in 7 years) can see that comparatively few games that aren't MMOs or BigFish-esque minigames come out for the PC when compared to consoles, and extremely few if you take out the ports and still fewer if you disregard the "simultaneous releases" that have blocky, unoptimized console interfaces.

    I mean, if that's the experience you're looking for and you think it's unfair to remove those numbers, then fine. But I think most people who self-identify as "gamers" would disagree that those are the games they mean when they say "this platform has a lot of great games coming out."
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    aegis_and_pred

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    #28  Edited By aegis_and_pred
    mrhankey said:
    "

    I think sometimes we see the evolution of pc gaming and its current predicament, which we perceive as death. In all reality we need to learn how to adapt to the new market otherwise it will be us pc gamers left out in the cold to shiver ourselves into a catatonic state. So please everyone please talking about the demise or death of pc gaming, it is simply evolving. Yes the "pc" doesn't have a lot of exclusives nor can you say it's a "platform" because of the varied hardware out there. The pc is a utility used for more than just gaming, but let us realizes that for the most part the pc version of a game created by Id or Valve and even Bethesda will always be superior to its console counterpart.

    "

    I agree 100%.

    People need to realize that EVERY generation of consoles has been met with claims of the "death" of PC gaming.  EVERY SINGLE ONE!  I know a lot of you weren't around for the times when PC games LOOKED better than everything else out there, but even back then, there were people claiming PCs were too hard to use ... and too expensive ... and PC gaming was dying out because of one reason or another.  It has been a cycle this entire time and I feel like a lot of the PC naysayers out there, just weren't old enough to appreciate the times when PC gaming was the end all be all of gaming. 

    Stop treading on PC little dudes ... it's been like this for longer than you've been alive ...
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    Gunraidan

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    #29  Edited By Gunraidan
    xruntime said:
    "Gunraidan said:
    "xruntime said:
    So my main point is, if there are more sales, and more profit for companies developing on the PC, why do so many publishers prioritize the console version or even ditch a PC version (Madden)?"
    First off I'd think that PC Gamer UK is a far better source then Wikipedia. Second off the reason why PC sales aren't as high as consoles is just as you listed. You are comparing all consoles that include 4 viable platforms (Wii, 360, PS3, and PS3) vs. the PC which is a single platform. It's as Vandal just stated PC gaming as a single platform makes up more then half of what consoles make. Sure it may be behind 4 of the platform but it is still ahead then any one of them.

    EDIT - Reply to HitNRun's source...they listed Aquaria as a casual game. :|

    "
    That still didn't answer my question

    "
    Why is Madden off of the PC? That's simple it isn't a game that is suited for the PC like say the multi-million selling SEGA's Football Manager series is. In terms of why developers focus on the console version more. Well why do some companies prioritize the handheld version of games over the console versions (LEGO Indiana Jones)? Why do companies prioritize the Japanese release over the Western (Persona 3)? It's simple the type of game they are making and the market they appeal to.

    Handhelds are typically a platform consisting of gamers who play the games on the go or bit by bit.

    Consoles are typically a platform consisting of gamers who play their games within a notable duration of time.

    PC is a platform consisting of gamers who play their games within a long duration of time.

    Within these things come the age groups, the type of game players on the platform, and where they thrive.

    Take consoles for instance. Their age group is usually in the late teens to the late 20's. The type of game players usually fall into stream gamers who look toward the next big blockbuster. And consoles thrive in North America, Japan, and the U.K.

    PC's however are a tad bit different. Their age group is usually consisting of people in their mid 20's to middle age. The type of gamers are usually really die-hard who play niche and complex games. And they don't particular thrive anywhere notably big enough, but they spread across the world to have a healthy userbase.

    Call of Duty and Rainbow Six are doing better on consoles? Yeah but they are clearly targetting a bigger audience. The stream gamers far outnumber the core gamers as well as them being in a define place. Just look at how much the developers tweaked those games. Rainbow Six used to be a very respectable tactical shooter series. Now? Just another "fun" action shooter.

    It isn't so much the fact that console move more games that exist on PC, but more so they can move more games if you retweak them. Case and point just look at the Rayman series. It was originally a semi-respectable platformer series that targeted kids and serious gamers on the Playstation line, however now it targets mostly casuals on the Nintendo line (by no means that means those consoles are only for casuals) and sells far better. People always give comparisons like Call of Duty 4 console vs PC sales or Bioshock console vs PC sales, but in reality people are missing the big picture here. Those games were clearly rebuilt for console gamers in mind especially in gameplay (complexity, depth, etc.). They were recrafted to capture the bigger more casual console audience.

    PC games still sell very well. Games like The Witcher have sold over half a million copies during only 3 months on the shelf. Sins of the Solar Empires sold over 100,000 copies in three weeks. S.T.A.L.K.E.R. sold over a million and half copies. And these are just RETAIL sales, include Digital Distribution you might as well double them (possibly even more). Looking at these games there's no way they'd perform the same on consoles. RPG's rarely reach the half a million mark on consoles. I mean the closest game series to resemble The Witcher in terms of userbase on console is the main Shin Megami Tensei series, and the best selling one didn't even surpass 400,000. Sins of the Solar Empires is a mere niche game for core RTS players, comparing to consoles it's similar to Soul Nomad or other NIS titles. And being honest I can't find anything to compare S.T.A.L.K.E.R. with.

    Look I've explained as much as I can.

    Why are publishers putting PC franchises on consoles now? For a bigger more casual userbase hence why all of them are retweaked.

    Why are PC sales down? They aren't.

    Why don't PC games sell that well? They do sell well, but just like any other platform it depends on what game you make and where you market it at as well as how.

     



    Clean
    said:
    "well everyone is pirating games so they can't make a decent profit"
    Pirating is everywhere. Nintendo lost near a billion due to piracy. The simple fact is that those who pirate are usually from countries where it runs rampant. Most of the pirates you hear about are in countries like Korea, Russia, Thailand, and the likes. The biggest difference is that PC piracy is easier to track because one can just go to torrent sites, consoles? Who knows? Regardless the PC pulls in more money then any platform on the market does it really isn't as big as an issue as people make it seem.
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    aegis_and_pred

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    #30  Edited By aegis_and_pred
    Gunraidan said:
    "xruntime said:
    "Gunraidan said:
    "xruntime said:
    So my main point is, if there are more sales, and more profit for companies developing on the PC, why do so many publishers prioritize the console version or even ditch a PC version (Madden)?"
    First off I'd think that PC Gamer UK is a far better source then Wikipedia. Second off the reason why PC sales aren't as high as consoles is just as you listed. You are comparing all consoles that include 4 viable platforms (Wii, 360, PS3, and PS3) vs. the PC which is a single platform. It's as Vandal just stated PC gaming as a single platform makes up more then half of what consoles make. Sure it may be behind 4 of the platform but it is still ahead then any one of them.

    EDIT - Reply to HitNRun's source...they listed Aquaria as a casual game. :|

    "
    That still didn't answer my question

    "
    Why is Madden off of the PC? That's simple it isn't a game that is suited for the PC like say the multi-million selling SEGA's Football Manager series is. In terms of why developers focus on the console version more. Well why do some companies prioritize the handheld version of games over the console versions (LEGO Indiana Jones)? Why do companies prioritize the Japanese release over the Western (Persona 3)? It's simple the type of game they are making and the market they appeal to.

    Handhelds are typically a platform consisting of gamers who play the games on the go or bit by bit.

    Consoles are typically a platform consisting of gamers who play their games within a notable duration of time.

    PC is a platform consisting of gamers who play their games within a long duration of time.

    Within these things come the age groups, the type of game players on the platform, and where they thrive.

    Take consoles for instance. Their age group is usually in the late teens to the late 20's. The type of game players usually fall into stream gamers who look toward the next big blockbuster. And consoles thrive in North America, Japan, and the U.K.

    PC's however are a tad bit different. Their age group is usually consisting of people in their mid 20's to middle age. The type of gamers are usually really die-hard who play niche and complex games. And they don't particular thrive anywhere notably big enough, but they spread across the world to have a healthy userbase.

    Call of Duty and Rainbow Six are doing better on consoles? Yeah but they are clearly targetting a bigger audience. The stream gamers far outnumber the core gamers as well as them being in a define place. Just look at how much the developers tweaked those games. Rainbow Six used to be a very respectable tactical shooter series. Now? Just another "fun" action shooter.

    It isn't so much the fact that console move more games that exist on PC, but more so they can move more games if you retweak them. Case and point just look at the Rayman series. It was originally a semi-respectable platformer series that targeted kids and serious gamers on the Playstation line, however now it targets mostly casuals on the Nintendo line (by no means that means those consoles are only for casuals) and sells far better. People always give comparisons like Call of Duty 4 console vs PC sales or Bioshock console vs PC sales, but in reality people are missing the big picture here. Those games were clearly rebuilt for console gamers in mind especially in gameplay (complexity, depth, etc.). They were recrafted to capture the bigger more casual console audience.

    PC games still sell very well. Games like The Witcher have sold over half a million copies during only 3 months on the shelf. Sins of the Solar Empires sold over 100,000 copies in three weeks. S.T.A.L.K.E.R. sold over a million and half copies. And these are just RETAIL sales, include Digital Distribution you might as well double them (possibly even more). Looking at these games there's no way they'd perform the same on consoles. RPG's rarely reach the half a million mark on consoles. I mean the closest game series to resemble The Witcher in terms of userbase on console is the main Shin Megami Tensei series, and the best selling one didn't even surpass 400,000. Sins of the Solar Empires is a mere niche game for core RTS players, comparing to consoles it's similar to Soul Nomad or other NIS titles. And being honest I can't find anything to compare S.T.A.L.K.E.R. with.

    Look I've explained as much as I can.

    Why are publishers putting PC franchises on consoles now? For a bigger more casual userbase hence why all of them are retweaked.

    Why are PC sales down? They aren't.

    Why don't PC games sell that well? They do sell well, but just like any other platform it depends on what game you make and where you market it at as well as how.

     



    Clean
    said:
    "well everyone is pirating games so they can't make a decent profit"
    Pirating is everywhere. Nintendo lost near a billion due to piracy. The simple fact is that those who pirate are usually from countries where it runs rampant. Most of the pirates you hear about are in countries like Korea, Russia, Thailand, and the likes. The biggest difference is that PC piracy is easier to track because one can just go to torrent sites, consoles? Who knows? Regardless the PC pulls in more money then any platform on the market does it really isn't as big as an issue as people make it seem."

    wow ... i can't wait to see how many people try to bash your face in for making a thread that actually makes sense ... but this is the end all be all of the console/pc discussion and should really have it's own thread dedicated to it.
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    xruntime

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    #31  Edited By xruntime

    What about games like Crysis moving to consoles and Far Cry 2 no longer a PC-exclusive? And GTA IV not coming out on PC at the same time?

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    serbsta

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    #32  Edited By serbsta

    I dont find the bad thing from being able to enjoy a game for a few months instead of a few days.

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    deactivated-5c5cdba6e0b96

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    serbsta said:
    "I dont find the bad thing from being able to enjoy a game for a few months instead of a few days."
    Well If I`m paying $50+ on a game, I would much rather a gaming experience that lasted 3 month instead of 3 days, depending on what game also.
    This goes for both Pc and Console, which both have there good and bad games. some lasting 3 days some lasting a year.
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    xruntime

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    #34  Edited By xruntime

    "Those games were clearly rebuilt for console gamers in mind especially in gameplay (complexity, depth, etc.). They were recrafted to capture the bigger more casual console audience."

    And why did they do that? Because there's more profit to be made on the consoles. It wasn't always like that.

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    #35  Edited By TheOGVandalvideo
    xruntime said:
    ""Those games were clearly rebuilt for console gamers in mind especially in gameplay (complexity, depth, etc.). They were recrafted to capture the bigger more casual console audience."

    And why did they do that? Because there's more profit to be made on the consoles. It wasn't always like that.
    "
    According to the PCGA, the PC is the single highest grossing platform in the industry, accounting for over 30% of gross sales. Its not a matter of consoles providing more profits, its a matter of deminishing returns and growing development costs. The PC isn't the only platform that is losing exclusives. Third party developers and exclusives are two phrases that don't even belong in the same sentence anymore. There is an extreme lack of these on the console side as well. Despite this growing trend in the inudstry, the PC still has the most announced exclusives and highly rated titles, not to mention, according to a 2008 Game Developer Survey, the PC accounted for 70% of all developer focus, as opposed to a much lower ammount fo consoles.
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    #36  Edited By TheOGVandalvideo
    HitNRun said:

    What I said was that while PC gaming might  have big sales numbers when you put everything in one giant statistical pot, that doesn't mean it's doing OK as an industry. You say that, according to the PCGA, PC games are worth 3 bn a year. But if you take out JUST WoW (1 - 1.5 bn/yr) and casual games that make very little money individually but are worth over $2 bn/yr, you're left with a very, very small (apparently negative) slice of the pie in the "other" category, and that includes all other MMOs and games like Proctologist Tycoon that used to be what gamers called "casual."

    Really, this isn't even arguable. It's self-evident. Any PC gamer (and I just bought my first console in 7 years) can see that comparatively few games that aren't MMOs or BigFish-esque minigames come out for the PC when compared to consoles, and extremely few if you take out the ports and still fewer if you disregard the "simultaneous releases" that have blocky, unoptimized console interfaces.

    I mean, if that's the experience you're looking for and you think it's unfair to remove those numbers, then fine. But I think most people who self-identify as "gamers" would disagree that those are the games they mean when they say "this platform has a lot of great games coming out.""

    None of the links that you provided show that WoW and Casual games make up for a large portion of the grossed sales of the PC industry. The PC, according to the PCGA, accounts for over 30% of the entire software sales industry, and is the single most popular/succesful/and developer focused platform, with the most announced exclusives and highly rated titles. The PC is still going strong.
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    MIALER_DAEMON

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    #37  Edited By MIALER_DAEMON

    Regardless, I'm looking forward to quake live.
    Use to like "mplayer" before gamespy fucked it up, hopefully it's like that.

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    #38  Edited By Decimator

    Ain't it always the same with Sir Carmack? He always tries to smack the industry, but fails!?

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    #39  Edited By SpecTackle

    This just in: Carmack's games aren't what they used to be, either.

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    xruntime

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    #40  Edited By xruntime

    Does anyone actually have some real statistics (cited sources) to back up what they're saying?

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    #41  Edited By xplodedd

    its a different opinion then valve and the pc. look at tf2 on any platform, its dead, on pc... long living healthy.
    they don't realize that because of digital distributions there is a ton of money not being looked at.

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    #42  Edited By Decimator
    xruntime said:
    "Does anyone actually have some real statistics (cited sources) to back up what they're saying?"
    You got a point here. Well, I thought it was about the anti-gaming guy, but obviously it's not.. ;)
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    #43  Edited By sgthalka

    id (and Epic ... and Crytek ... and Valve, to some degree) are in the business of game engines and AAA shooters.

    So every time you see these guys say, "PC gaming isn't what it used to be," what they actually mean is shooters aren't selling on PC like they used to. So they have to go where their customers are.

    But it drives me nuts whenever I hear these FPS egomaniacs claim the state of AAA shooters = the state of PC gaming.

    PC gaming still has a portion of the shooter crowd, and basically the entire sim, strategy and MMO crowd. I don't see that changing this generation. Maybe not even next generation.

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    Rylsadar

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    #44  Edited By Rylsadar

    Don't you people recognize the true problem?

    Gaming as a whole is getting dumber,and PC gaming is going with it because the future of gaming is clearly oriented towards multiplatforming.

    There are a few dedicated PC devs left,but we have lost most of our heavy hitters to multiplatforming and the megapublishers are eating up the market,and their biggest priority is always sales,which means even more mainstreaming.

    In terms of a global significance: Multi-platform=Simplification

    Since when did we start considering World of Warcraft as a classic?!

    Just take a look at the role playing genre.A new and distinct concept of role playing games is ascending.A potential market based upon the commercial propaganda is transforming the "PC" ideology into a little playground with lollypops.All the hardcore role playing philosophy has flunked.A new generation based upon the influence of consoles is conquering and destroying all the inspiration that titles like Baldur's Gate,Fallout,Deus Ex or Gothic left us...

    Didn't you notice that several games including The Witcher,Mass Effect,Knights of The Old Republic or Neverwinter Nights are particulary the same type of games(I can't kill any none player character at sight,two or three selective conversation options that don't have any importance,closed landscapes with no freedom at all...).

    We're losing our place in a world that no longer needs us,a world that now spurns our very existence.

    No Caption Provided






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    xruntime

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    #45  Edited By xruntime

    PC gaming really isn't all that bad, actually. We're all salivating for some exclusives, but 360 and PS3 don't have many exclusives either (the Wii is a totally different demographic).

    If you want some good FPS and RPG games on the PC (like Deus Ex) support GSC Game World by buying STALKER.

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    #46  Edited By Rylsadar
    xruntime said:
     If you want some good FPS and RPG games on the PC (like Deus Ex) support GSC Game World by buying STALKER.

    I've already bought Stalker,one of the best games of all time.

    Is it that difficult to make games like this?
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    #47  Edited By xruntime
    Rylsadar said:
    "xruntime said:
     If you want some good FPS and RPG games on the PC (like Deus Ex) support GSC Game World by buying STALKER.

    I've already bought Stalker,one of the best games of all time.

    Is it that difficult to make games like this?
    "

    Well it is pretty difficult, to be honest, and they do make plenty...the quality of them is debatable...Fallout 3, Oblivion, Far Cry 2

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    #48  Edited By Cube

    I like that games have a sense of longevity on PC. It gives me a deeper experience, and can open up possibilities of mods one, two, or even three years down the line.

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    #49  Edited By Nemesis

    Carmack has been talking to much lately.

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    #50  Edited By Gunraidan

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