I watched the stream after the fact because I was in class when it happened, I browsed twitter and saw some hot takes from the staff and then watched it for myself later last night. I could definitely tell why some people were disappointed or not hyped at all after this announcement. What they were trying to show really required the viewer to have a 4K or at least an HDR TV to see what they were trying to talk about so when they did those moments where the gameplay would cut over from one setting to another, you really just couldn't tell the difference between the two settings. There was some nice stuff that they talked about for non-4K users like better frame rates for games and stuff like that and some decent looking performance from what they showed of PSVR. But at the same time I wasn't convinced that not only should I buy this thing, but that I should also get a compatible TV to go along with it. Right now, were in a similar limbo phase of changing from SDTV to HDTV for broadcast TV, streaming video, and even physical media that we saw between 2004-2006. It took a while for people to see how much better an HDTV was because no one really had one because there wasn't a whole lot of content for those formats. We're also just getting over the failed promise of 3DTV that happened after Avatar came out. A lot of broadcasters, including ESPN, went head first into 3D and lost a lot of money in the process. So I think there's definitely some apprehension on consumers and content creators to make 4K and HDR content. I've seen a 4KTV and have no doubt that it looks every bit like the next big quality jump people want. But 4KTV's also still carry fairly high prices compared to HDTV's of the same size, so there's that to consider as well. There's also the aspect of this thing not being able to play UHD discs, which is crazy if you think about how integral the Blue Ray brand is to Sony. So even if you had the bandwidth for 4K streaming, and the TV to support it, there still isn't enough content to justify it quite yet. When sports broadcasting starts doing 4K for everything, that's when you'll see this stuff really pick up. but as of now, the PS4 PRo is really only for early adopters of the format and people who are really, really wanting to have HDTV games play that much better.

I would be tempted by a PC if it had any decent exclusives but right now Sony has the games I want to play.

No reason whatsoever to buy a Pro

I don't plan on buying a 4k TV anytime soon but the fact this makes my existing PS4 library better is enough for me to pull the trigger. I have such a huge backlog that being able to enjoy them at a smoother framerate and higher fidelity will keep me content till PS5.

Not interested in the slightest. My standard ps4 will do me just fine for the next 3 - 4 years thanks.

I was not impressed, but then again, I've never had hopes for either this or Scorpio (though a little more hope for Scorpio). I'm thinking it's just plain stupidity of Sony to release the PS4 Pro at this point, considering a much more powerful version of the Xbox is just a year away, which will (most likely) vastly outperform the PS4 Pro.

That will leave Sony in a position where they either have to launch a new console again, or face being the least powerful of the three high-end platforms. I would expect Sony and Microsoft to eventually fall into a pattern where they release 0,5 upgrades for their hardware every two or three years. And at that point, I'm left with one question:

Why not buy a PC? I've been a console gamer all my life, but I'm gonna go with PC from now on.

As someone that actually owns a 4K tv I don't know if the PS4 Pro is actually something I need or want right now, especially with scorpio coming up in the future.

I don't have a PS4 right now but would like to get one for some of these exclusives that are coming up. I just don't feel confident in whether this more expensive console is actually going to be worth it. I could just get the slim and wait and see what comes next. Need to see some actual data on how this thing preforms before I make any final decisions.

The more I hear about it the more sold I am. I just wanted them to talk about the benefits for non 4k tvs right now, and they said they're asking every developer to have improvements for non 4k. Rise of the Tomb Raider seems to be the only one we have specific details for right now but the improvements and options sound great for regular 1080 tvs.

For the future if I get a 4k tv the 4k stuff seems to hold up its end of the bargain for the price. Digital Foundry seemed really impressed with that aspect of it and said it's a huge upgrade in visuals over 1080. Also, The Last of Us is confirmed to be in native 4k which would make me have to play it again.

Hopefully I can get a good amount for selling my ps4.

The way they pitched it seemed like best way to not piss off current owners (extra power is just to get it up to "4k" and HDR. Not a massive deal a la 360 Elite) I wanted to hear them talk about better framerates, and faster load times.

However I am looking to get a new tv and was thinking of just getting one at 1080p, but since og ps4 will apparently do HDR I'm just going to pay a little extra and get a 4k hdr ready set.

A lot of people in this thread are discussing increased frame rate for playing non-4k games on the Neo. Did Sony ever mention this as a possibility? The possibility of better FPS is like the only thing that makes the upgraded console at all appealing to me, but I didn't even hear it mentioned in the press conference. It seemed like they were pushing the improved textures/visual density thing as the improvement for non-4k TVs.

It's weird that they haven't addressed the FPS thing one way or the other. I can get why they might think that touting improved frame rate devalues the base PS4, but it's sort of a big consideration and it's hard to make an informed decision about the new console without knowing if it's a possibility. It really sucks that developers prefer to squeeze diminishing returns out of their graphics than to optimize their games' frame rate and it's disappointing that Sony seems to be encouraging this tendency (at least in their messaging).

Rise of the Tomb Raider has three modes: 4K, 1080p Framerate, and 1080p Graphics (My naming there is probably not exactly what they were). Anyways, the framerate one focuses on improving that while the other makes it prettier. But the thing is, that's a developer choice and requires their choice and effort towards it. Sony can't guarantee anything on their end.

If that's what you care about I would highly suggest waiting and seeing how games handle it for a bit. From everything I saw RotTR was the only game that laid out how it handling these things.

I don't currently have a 4K TV or monitor, and I won't be in the market for one for maybe another year or two, so that reason owner there. The lack of a UHD disc drive really hurts it, as 1080p streaming is already hard with my bandwidth, and I do still like buying physical Blu-rays every now and then. With all that said, I'm plenty happy with my current PS4 and its performance, so I don't see myself getting the Pro anytime soon.

@notkcots: Something to keep in mind is that multiplayer games will all have the same framerate both on the normal PS4 and Pro.

I got my PS4 less than two years ago. I'm not buying a slightly upgraded version after that short of a time. If this were an actual leap to a new generation, it would be too soon for me to want to upgrade.

If anything the whole announcement made me more interested in the NX. I have a ps4 and an XBO, I won't get a 4K tv until probably late next year when the prices are considerably lower.

With the direction MS is taking the xbox, the generation after this may be the time I finally say screw it and build a PC. If I can play Xbox games on a PC, the only stuff I'm really missing out on is first party Sony stuff. I'll be ok losing that

saf

Huh, that's interesting. So it is a possibility, then. It's going to be interesting to see how many developers offer an option to improve the frame rate. I pretty much already know all of the games I want to play once I get a PS4, so I guess I'll just have to wait and see how widespread a practice it becomes among developers.

Yeah, I guess that makes sense. Hopefully this incentivizes getting a good frame rate on the base PS4 so that the Neo version isn't hamstrung by the base console's performance.

When the news of the Neo leaked I made the decision right then to put that money into a new PC instead. There's been relatively few PS4 exclusives that I'm actually interested in playing which would take advantage of the extra power and Horizon Zero Dawn is the only forthcoming one that I'm actively interested in. Being able to play a small number of games at higher frame-rates isn't a huge draw to me when I'll be able to play the majority of games at even better quality on PC. I might change my tune if I decide to get a 4K UHD TV at some point, but as of right now that's not something I'm even considering.

Like Danny, I was sort of surprised that Sony are linking the quality of the VR stuff to the Pro before PS VR is even out. That cascade of "if I want to make PS VR worth getting then I have to get a PS Pro and to get the most out of that I need to buy a new TV" looks like a hard sell to a lot of us.

I would have considered the new model if it had UHD bluray support. Without that I have no interest to upgrade my current PS4.

If there is ever a bundle that comes with a brand new 4K TV, a PS4 Pro, and a PS VR for less than 1500 I'll be sold. Buying this stuff piece meal just for small advantages isn't worth it to me. Not unless prices are way cheaper on it. Especially when your still looking at $80 CAD for most new games.

I don't care about 4k, so I'm still unsure as to what this system can offer me. If after the PS4 Pro is released there are reports of games running markedly better, or looking meaningfully better at 1080p, then I might consider getting one and giving my current PS4 to my brother.

Yeah, this is weird to me. I don't have much issue with the new tv angle, as that's the direction the market is going, but the PSVR stuff amidst this announcement is dicey. Realistically, Sony should just develop VR games on the Pro exclusively, as PSVR games having to run on the vanilla PS4 is going to limit their potential, but if they didn't run on the vanilla PS4, it would fracture their userbase. The Pro seems like a reactive half-measure. If anything, I came away more sold on the PS4 slim or standard PS4, although I'm not sure I'll get either since Sony continues to mostly drop the ball on exclusives. What Sony needs to do this holiday season is own the big ask and offer a bundle of a Bravia 4K HDR TV, PS Pro, and PSVR for ~$1500. There's some sticker shock there, but it's a lot more palatable than expecting people to buy all that piecemeal to be likely north of $2k, and every one of those they could get would still be a big score for Sony.

Scorpio is going to hit at just about the right time for me. I'm probably getting a 4K HDR TV around Super Bowl sale time in 2017 because I'm about ready for a new one in the living room, regardless of video gaming. I've been really happy with my Xbox One overall, enough so to where I feel like it's been worth every penny I paid for it and then some. I sure wouldn't mind moving it into my master bedroom to have that entertainment hub there and have the Scorpio take over the living room. Moreover, it appears that it will be much more of a generational leap than the Pro is over the standard PS4. I'm not presently that crazy about VR, but Scorpio appears a lot better positioned to take advantage of it based on supposed hardware capabilities, the Oculus partnership, and the fact that VR will simply be a lot more fleshed out by the time Scorpio makes its debut. If Scorpio is what it's supposed to be, I'm probably in. I have full confidence in Spencer to come through.

Kind of hard to be sold over a stream that is incapable of showcasing what the whole point of the system is. Personally, as somebody who doesn't own a PS3 or PS4, I was hoping for backwards compatibility. It was a long shot, but the fact of the matter is, that if backwards compatibility was a feature of the Pro, I would be instantly sold, regardless of the HDR/4K capabilities. I don't own a TV that is capable of outputting either, so yea. At this point I'm setting my sights on the slim or possibly the standard PS4 on a crazy holiday bundle deal this year.

@trilogy:

@notnert427: thinking about PS VR and its connection to the PS Pro from a PR angle, I guess that it's better to get out in front of this now rather than after PS VR is released. They could potentially piss off a lot of consumers if they let them go out and buy PS VR at launch only to later reveal that to get the best experience you also need to buy a PS Pro. For existing PS4 owners, though, it kind of takes the shine off the prospect of PS VR since putting the money out for what will be a second-class experience seems much less appealing. Even without that, I'm still not sold on PS VR (or VR in general, to be honest) since what they've shown until now hasn't exactly fired me up for it. So in that context it just seems a lot to ask people to put out money for the Pro and PS VR when VR as a platform for gaming still seems unproven.

That's why the PSVR/PS Pro/Bravia 4K HDR bundle thing seems like a solid idea. It encourages grouping the products designed to work together, while passively discouraging PSVR on regular PS4s or PS Pros on regular TVs (things primed for disappointment). This is a delicate marketing situation, because obviously you want people to buy the new hotness, but can't really make existing users feel like they're SOL without it (even if they are). The bundle would allow them to kinda do that without having to outright say they're doing it (which would surely precipitate backlash), in addition to helping limit inherent pitfalls of people buying only parts of the package necessary to really have this stuff reach its potential. I can promise that regardless of how obvious this shit is, there will be people pissed off that their PS4 doesn't run PSVR as well as a Pro and people who buy a Pro and play it on a non-4K, non-HDR TV and complain that games don't look/run much better than the regular PS4. Every bit of that they can avoid is a win.

Jonathan Blow just posted a short update detailing a patch for The Witness that they're preparing. It gives a little bit of insight into how developers might approach Pro support. The short version:

• As with the existing version, the game will run at 60 frames per second regardless of the attached display.
• When connected to a 4K display, the game will have an internal resolution of at least 1440p with the UI rendering natively at 2160p. It may or may not use checkerboard rendering, as detailed here by Digital Foundry.
• When connected to a 1080p display, both the game and UI will render at 1080p with x4 MSAA. It may also include other visual quality tweaks.
• Assuming it's possible, the game will support HDR on both the Pro and base model PS4s.

Here's the meat of the post if anyone's curious:

The Witness already runs at a consistent 60fps on the base PlayStation 4, so rather than increasing frame rate, our patch is about visual quality. Please don’t take the specifics mentioned here as absolute promises; things might change by release. But here’s what we are aiming for:

When you start up the game on a PS4 Pro, it will go into one of two modes, depending on the current display device:

* When using PS4 Pro with a 4k display, we will render at 1440p or possibly higher, all while keeping a consistent 60 frames per second. This image will then be upscaled to 4k, and we will draw text, menus, and other UI at native 4k resolution. (This is similar to what happens on the base PS4, where we render the 3D scene at 900p, then upscale to 1080p and draw UI at 1080p). We might be able to achieve resolutions higher than 1440p based on various engineering tradeoffs (for example, if we boost the resolution of the main scene to a greater degree than we boost the resolution of the reflections in water, which tend to be distorted anyway. Also, we’ll evaluate checkerboard rendering — we’re not sure if it’s the right way to go for this game, but we’ll see.) We’ll post again when we finalize these specs.

* When using PS4 Pro with a display that is 1080p or lower, we will render the scene at 1080p (instead of the old 900p), and increase antialiasing quality from 2x to 4x MSAA, again while keeping a solid 60 frames per second. We are exploring additional visual quality increases, like increased streaming distance for high-resolution meshes, or decreasing the noticeability of the fade-in between faraway LODs and high-res close-up meshes. Again, we’ll post details when this is finalized!

We’re also working on HDR support. Here in the office we just got a new LG B6P television, which is very bright and has low black levels, providing a lot of dynamic range, and it’s been fun so far tweaking the look of the game on HDR displays like this.

We thought we were working on HDR support only for the PS4 Pro, but yesterday Sony announced that they will be enabling HDR support on all PS4s via a firmware update. Sometimes Sony even surprises developers! (Back when the PS4 was originally announced, we were surprised by some of the final specs too … and I was on stage in that show!)

We think it’s great that Sony are doing this. We don’t know the technical details of how it will work, yet, but provided that nothing prevents us, the Witness patch will use HDR on all PS4s when available. (You will, of course, need an HDR TV or monitor for HDR mode to kick in!)

Nope. By the time I get a 4k TV, there will probably be a successor to the PS4 Pro just based on the time between the PS4 launch to now. More and more though, I just wonder why I play games on a console at all.

My console game time has been declining over the last 5 years. I don't play much on them anymore as the majority of games i do end up playing are on the PC as well. Having a PS4 already, and only playing certain exclusive titles, i really don't see why i should get rid of it and buy a Pro version. Sure i wouldn't mind the extra fluff. But i really don't need a 4K HDR TV right now, maybe once OLED prices get better. But as of now i would rather spend some money on a 21:9 monitor for my PC.

People dont do 4K streams. They watch 1080 streams.

@cyraxible:

Internet still goes out from time to time. Not as often as it used to but, it still does. The only physical media I still buy is movies for this reason.

Two weeks ago my internet went out. Squirrels are through the line for the second time.

I really wanted a 4K player that did everything.

Since I'd gladly cancel my TV subscription if the wife would let me I have no desire to purchase a 4K TV any time in the future and thus no need for a PS4P. I do have a PS4 so I can play games on it as needed, no reason for me to upgrade anything. I also have a great gaming PC that gets the lion share of my gaming time.

As long as the vibe around it is generally positive, I'll pick one up once I make a new 4K TV / Monitor purchase, but that likely won't be until after next year's lineup of displays comes out.

@notnert427: I definitely see the merit in a bundle like that for some people, and it might hide the cost of the PS VR component of the bundle somewhat which would soften the blow if PS VR turns out to be the new Kinect...

Whether Sony have intended it or not, a narrative has developed around the PS VR that it was going to be "VR for everybody else"; VR for those of us who couldn't justify risking $700-$800 on a headset to try VR (putting aside the cost of the PC to run it on for the moment) but who might take a punt on a $350 PS VR. Before the PS Pro announcement, one could have been pretty certain that buying PS VR for your existing PS4 would allow you to experience the games released for it as they were meant to be. Now though, who knows? Are you going to get some kind of compromised, minimum-viable experience? Will there be such a visible "screen door" effect because of the halved resolution that it'll drive you up the wall? All these kinds of doubts just slightly undermine what otherwise might have been a fairly safe purchase.

I've heard a number of people say that PS VR might be important for the success of VR in general because of its more affordable price point and it's ability to target a large existing user-base, which together could help VR reach critical mass so that it's worth developing for. Now we're looking at a potentially fragmented user-base for it and a combined cost of $800 for PS VR and the Pro if you want the optimal experience. We'll see I guess...

As someone who lives in Canada the price point just isn't something I can swallow right now. I'd much rather take that $500 and save it towards a gaming PC instead of buying another PS4 at this point. So I'm content to stick with my current system.

As a PS4 owner I was mostly sold. Even though I'm disappointed with the lack of Ultra Blu-ray support I will still get the PS4 Pro to play any future games that take advantage of 4K.

Nope, don't plan to get a new TV anytime soon and I was mostly just waiting to pull the trigger on the base PS4. Just preordered the Slim (which is bundled with Uncharted 4 for $300, pretty sweet!)

I have my PC for the high fidelity stuff.

Not interested, but honestly to market this thing right, they need to market it as a 1080p 60fps machine and not a 4K upscaler.

I'm good with my launch PS4 and have no desire or (really) money to buy a 4K TV to really take advantage of the Pro. I'm not really picky on if my games run at 60 or 30 fps and a bump in graphics isn't enough for me to lay down money on an updated console.

I have a PC and a PS4, and it did not come across as a thing for me.

I mean, I'm sold in that I'm buying one. But I don't already own a PS4 and never owned a PS3 so I was itching to get one. No real reason to not buy the better one.

If anything this just further solidifies my decision to build a gaming PC instead.

The only things I've loved about my PS4 so far have been playing all four Uncharted games and The Last of Us. Horizon: Zero Dawn looks great too; but I saw nothing about the PS4 Pro that sounded remotely interesting to me.

I'm excited to get one and pair it with one of Samsung's mid-range 4K TVs (they seem more competitive than Sony's or LG's offerings for the respective price points). Whether or not I'll trade in my Xbox One Elite to go towards the PS4Pro (already trading in my PS4 towards the Pro) is another question. I've had it since last November and I've hardly touched the console.

Nope, don't have a 4k TV and they didn't reveal any new titles I didn't already know about.

Just realized/discovered that it seems my TV (2015 LG 55EF9500 4K OLED) updated via firmware or something at some point and now it can do HDR? Or maybe it could before. I just know a bunch of people were arguing on AVS forums about it supporting HDR or not.

I watched "Cosmo's Laundromat" on Netflix and good LORD did it look good. And that animated short was amazing in itself.

So excited! Was worried I'd be left behind on this HDR thing.

Just FYI, I picked this TV up on sale for about $1900. It seems to be down as low as $1600 now according to Google. Absolutely worth the money. OLED is pure porn.

It seems like way to incremental of a leap. I'll probably just spend some extra money on a better video card for my PC. Coming up on 4 years with my current card.