What's stopping Sony from coming out with a new even more powerful PS4 around the time Scorpio comes out? If the PS4 Pro isn't going to come close to how powerful the Scorpio is what is stopping them from coming out with a PS4 Elite that matches the power? They could release it a year after the PS4 Pro and start a yearly cycle. How likely do you think this will happen? Does something like this give you pause on whether you should buy a PS4 Pro or not?

what stops them is keeping the price low. they may also wind up in the same kerfluffle ms did when announcing the xbone: "oh, i heard it's not that much of an upgrade, not interested." maybe if their messaging is on point they wouldn't, but i think it may be too late for that.

e: if you mean a 2nd upgrade that would ruin their credibility even further. we don't even know if people will take to regular console upgrades like they did with phones yet.

The risk of massive backlash? Engineering/manufacturing time?

The idea of a PS4 Pro+ next year is proposterous.

That would be insane and awful to do. If they did that, fuck consoles. This shit is already a mess right now as is.

I don't think they'd come out with another SKU next year. If Scorpio comes out next holiday season, they could announce something for 2018 to take a bit of the wind out of Microsoft's sails.

Common sense?

R & D? Manufacturing costs? There's no way that would ever happen.

So, in order for them to do this, they would have had to go "Oh shit, we need to react to this" the second they heard the Scorpio was coming. Let's pretend they have 60s-style spies infiltrating Microsoft, and they knew about it a year in advance. By this time, they would have already been well underway designing the Pro, and a second team optimizing the Slim. They would have had to dedicate another team to coming up with plans for the new console, and oops we're under a strict time limit!

Nah, I doubt it.

Unless they already have one in the works, I highly doubt that. I imagine consoles take a long time to plan and develop.

Nothing.

It's definitely possible in my opinion, though not the most likely scenario at this time.

All depends on how the Pro is received and the Scorpio tracks throughout the year.

My personal expectation is a Pro+ the year after next.

Realistically, nothing at all.

Personally, though, I think it would drive potential consumers away. People are used to consoles being 5-7 year investments. This current upgrade fiasco is already turning people away (anecdotally, I've heard nothing but confusion and anger from my coworkers and friends who are on the console side of things), so cementing a yearly cycle might just make people more wary of upgrading or even buying into the ecosystem save for holiday purchases.

I expect them to release another iteration of the PS4 in about 2 years. They've really dropped the ball with the messaging of the PlayStation over the last 2 weeks.

A riot. A complete revolt from everyone who just bought a PS4 Pro.

And as a PC player, seeing a yearly console release cycle would be delicious. That whole "why would I spend $1000 on a gaming PC when I could buy a $400 console and be set for X years" becomes hilarious when X=1.

I find it interesting that no one so far has been open to the idea that console manufacturers want these things to be iPhones/iPads for the television, but more focused on games.

I don't personally support it as someone who loves consoles primarily because they've allowed me to avoid the juggling that comes along with PC gaming (I'm also fairly biased towards OS X) but I can tell that's what both companies are going for and hoping to achieve. Their structures mirror budget PCs in many ways and they're beginning to coin terms like "forward compatibility", which is just a fancy way of saying we're building on this OS and this code architecture from here on out so who really cares what's in the box as long as it plays your games, right? Can't afford the PS4? Maybe you can afford the PS4 Slim for $300! 1TB HDD, 5GHz Wi-Fi and 4K video at $400 wasn't necessary for you two years after the PS4-One? Well how about four years later, even if that's still not applicable to you, we're packing in the PS Camera, a 2TB HDD, 5Ghz Wi-Fi, 4K video, two Dual Shock 4-3s and a copy of The Complete Naughty Dog PS4 Collection: Uncharted Series Remastered, The Last of Us Remastered and The Highest Rated Exclusive Console Game of 2017...at $400?!

That's how I see all this going, for better or worse.

Money

Consoles will mimic the phone market, every 2 years you'll get a refresh. The average user will skip one or two cycles, new systems support the older games, and by the time a system is 3 (or so) cycles old new games won't be playable.

@smeffw Development time and setting up a manufacturing supply chain that makes the units profitable enough within a 3 year development span. One also assumes that Sony would be cutting the legs out from beneath these current units so they would not become profitable within their own 3 year profit cycle.

*Assuming 3 year cycles based off the time it took for both companies to have Slim units. Slim units imply that the project has become profitable enough to undercut sales with a new unit but still return positive profit.

I think you underestimate the time, money, and manpower that it takes to release a console product to consumers and keep your messaging straight the whole time. Sony makes it look easy, but it isn't.

FYI: Console manufacturers hate directly competing on console releases because the overall pool of sales decrease. When they are spread out, there is a noticeable minority who purchase the first one, and then again with the newer console. There are much less people who purchase both new at full price at the same time, so when they directly compete in the same initial holiday season, they end up losing money in the long run. It behoves the entire market to leave space for a competitor to sell (and then aim to gnaw away at their competitor's long-tail with a new release sometime soon after - soon being on context to the lifespan of the product which for consoles is years). There will be no new PS4 next year, though their will probably be varying SKUs (especially dependent on the sales of the VR set).

@nodima said:

There is a big difference between smart phones and consoles. Smart phones got the way they are (and, note that this is likely to change in the near future) because they were revolutionary when they came out. A portable computer in your hand that wasn't trash - That didn't exist before, and now everyone wanted one. Plus, the technology was nascent, so substantial improvements came every 6 months, encouraging rapid iteration. These days, however, the innovations are fewer and further apart, which suggests the cycle will slow down as well. I certainly have no plans to replace my iPhone 6 with a 7, meaning we're entering its third year of service.

Consoles, on the other hand have existed for 40 years, are not nearly as ubiquitous, and are largely single function devices, with a set-top box grafted on. The tech isn't improving at nearly the same pace. We just had the first major graphics card releases in years, but the consoles are largely lagging behind for cost reasons. If they kept up with modern tech, the console would cost as much as a PC, but that sounds even less palatable.

If anything, the two markets are converging (though, there is still a pretty big gap in between).

Beyond all this, I think MS would absolutely jump at such a gaffe and try to really highlight how in comparison you don't need to buy a new xbox every year. Even if the idea of yearly iterations has crossed some Sony exec's mind (I don't think it has), it's also the question who will be the first to "pull the trigger" on such an escapade, and I don't think either side wants for the other to capitalize on such a (potentially disastrous) decision. Developers would also not be pleased about the constantly changing console hardware.

I don't think console tech moves as quickly as phone tech. And a phone refresh can be something as simple as a bigger screen or new apps.

Same thing that stops Apple from introducing a new phone every year.

Nothing.

Devs may cease to support all platforms at some point and that would be an issue. But it's unclear how big an issue it would be until it occurs.

No, the idea that something better will exist later doesn't stop me from buying stuff. It's inevitable. If you wait forever you end up with nothing at all.

Completely pissing off all of the people who bought a PS4 Pro and ensuring tons of people don't buy a PS4 for fear that an even more powerful version will come out a year later. Just doing the Pro is a huge risk as far as not angering the existing userbase and making people skeptical to buy future PlayStations at launch.

Seems like this is becoming the trend.

@shindig: Consoles these days are basically PCs with somewhat-proprietary hardware and operating system. PC tech is already on an 18-24 month turnaround, so there is no doubt that consoles would be doing the same. The only reason why Sony and Microsoft haven't done that already is because of the fear of massive consumer backlash. People are already pissed about the Pro and Scorpio now, so can you imagine if they did this a year earlier, or did it again in 2 more years?

Consoles are already 2-3 years behind current PC performance, so if they want to catch up and stay current they either need to make a console with up-to-date hardware which is essentially a $1600 PC every 4 years, OR release slightly more powerful machines than the last version ever 2-3 years and be behind the PC but still reasonable at a ~$400 price.

This is the new console market. The days of one console lasting a whole 5+ year console generation are gone. Adapt or die.

The console market is forever changed. They are now just PCs running a different OS. All the hardware is PC hardware and just like PC you have to upgrade every once in a while. I'd like to say there is no way they will be releasing another PS4 for a few years but there is no way to know since the console market is not what it used to be. I think we will keep seeing upgrades and they will continue to be x86 based so backwards compatability will be no problem but at some point the orignal PS4 will be to weak to be useful anymore, just like an old PC can technically play new games but would do so at a non playable framerate.

It's great that we all get distracted by this shit rather than all of the cool HD versions of 3 -10 year old games coming out. Best time to be playing games? Go listen to some 2008, 2009 Bombcasts to refresh your memory.

On Topic:

Both manufacturers are already testing the patience of their user base with these announcements, another system a year later might cause them to turn. Of course, the Sony fans' lust wasn't eroded by the long series of ps3 bungles, so maybe it will never go away.

Just as a new console refresh can be something as simple as 4k video output and HDR functionality?

God damn it, man.

1. The console market will always carry that convenience.
2. The console market has always been behind PC. They're mass market. PC is cutting edge.
3. What makes you think EA, Capcom, Warner Brothers, Microsoft and Ubisoft can port consistently well to PC?
4. Phones are sold to us on contracts. We rent them. Sony and Microsoft would lose out on this model.

so with a 2nd or 3rd iteration even if theyre ostensibly the same gen console the first iteration consoles potentially wouldn't even be able to play the 3rd iteration games, or theyll play them so crappily you wouldnt even bother in the first place. that or if they keep to making games playable on all systems the newest games and devs would be severely hamstrung by these older systems.

it'll work out great!

I doubt we'll see a completely new PS4 after the Pro. In another three years a PS5 will be on the way.

I'm OK with spending a little over £100 a year on gaming hardware, so a £350 machine every 3 years is OK with me. If they update them quicker than that I'll be skipping iterations just like I do with phones.

I can, however, see an updated Pro with a UHD disc drive in it by the end of next year.

I honestly don't see why people are freaking out about this.

PC hardware has been on a yearly to 1.5 year for a long time now and everyone watches with excitement when the next thing is coming. Along with its hefty price tag. Rebranding and refreshing PC hardware for minor gains isn't uncommon either.

Now a new iteration of a console comes out after 3 years and people lose their shit.

On/Off cycle between MS and Sony could be interesting to see plays out as well.

Sony decided to go early with the lower cost console, so they will play this card with Microsoft.

I expect a price drop for Pro when Scorpio hits the market.

Now, if the market shows a demand for the powerful console we might see Pro+ after Scorpio hits the market.

It would make much more sense for Sony to cut the price of the PS4 Pro around the launch of the "Scorpio". A slim version of the current Pro along with a new upgraded-spec high-end model in late 2018 seems likely.

I kinda hope it becomes a thing just because I've been done with consoles for over a year and I want to watch the world burn.

I don't disagree with you, but it's pretty clear to me these companies want to get in on this while there's still a glimmer of hope for it.

I'm not the person they're targeting with any of this, either. I played my PS3 on a 22" 480p CRT until late 2012/early 2013, and I kept my iPhone 4 until this past spring and can't recall whether I traded it in for a free iPhone 5 or free iPhone 5s. I am distinctly not the dollar they're after here, so maybe that helps fuel my cynicism as well. The phone thing has always seemed pointless to me.

Nothing stopping them but according to House won't be for awhile it would be pointless anyway for most people Sony's 4k box will be much chearper than MS's box try and explain the difference to Joe public.

PlayStation boss on PS4 Pro: our approach isn't reactive this time around

“I think that since this is our first foray into this kind of mid-cycle innovation, it’s far too early to call that. He also refused to rule out further hardware instalments in the PlayStation 4 generation. “We think that for a really substantial period of time this is the PlayStation 4 lineup. We’re very comfortable with that.”

@soimadeanaccount: That's true, but the issue here console gamers is that the whole point of owning a console is to get away from 1.5 year PC cycle. Once consoles start doing that as well, there is literally no reason to buy a console over a pre-made gaming PC besides cost.

Consoles are all about convenience - if they require a new box every 1-2 years to play, that convenience is gone. Why spend $400+ every 2 years on a console when you can spend $800-ish on a PC that will last 4 years or more? If that's how this is gonna go then the PC ends up being about the same or a bit cheaper in the long run with better performance, and that's not even getting into the $50/year for PSN and XBL to play online.

It seems like PC gaming is getting cheaper by the year and consoles are getting more expensive. What a world we live in...

If Scorpio comes out in 2017 I wouldn't be surprised if PS5 hits 2018.

Nothing is stopping them, and they should release a PS4 Pro2 around that time. If not, they're left the fuck behind.

Exactly. It's almost like it'd be... a new generation of consoles.

People who think all this is just great for consoles tout Apple but that whole thing fucking sucks. I have a 5th gen iPhone equivalent iPod and it's a mess even though I take great care of it. The OS has become so slow and it straight up will crash for no reason whatsoever.

Running modern games is so complicated and this kind of model applied there sounds terrible. Maybe it seems fine after one iteration but beyond that it will be a trainwreck. Enjoy your multiplayer games that look like shit on your fancy 4th generation PS4/Xbox when you play multiplayer because we need to even the playing field with old versions of the console that can hardly run the OS and have the singleplayer of said game that runs like total garbage because they have left you behind on that front.

Except I built my PC about 4 years ago (and didn't even get cutting edge components as I have an i5 and 760), haven't upgraded it, and it still runs the newest games on a mix of medium/high settings and looks and runs them better than the consoles out there.

1. Not for long if this 24-36 month cycle continues.
2. Not always. It wasn't until the early X360 days that PCs caught up and took the lead from consoles. PC is cutting edge now though and has been since 2007 or so.
3. If they start making PC ports to consoles rather than console ports to PC then they'll do fine. Most AAA games these days are developed for console first and ported to PC. Rarely is a game made for PC first and ported to console unless it was a PC game that sold well enough to justify a port. Wasteland 2 and Diablo 3 are recent examples.
4. I'd bet that most of the people that are lining up for the new Iphone or Galaxy S each year are doing it more for a want than a need. They keep making them because people keep buying them. Consoles are no different.

I dunno about "delicious", but I care less and less about consoles every year. My PS4 and Xbone are already essentially expensive paperweights given how infrequently I turn them on. One good exclusive a year per system is about where we're at, and that's just not worth bothering to buy the hardware anymore.

Cost. Market confusion. Developer confusion.

It costs quite a bit to develop and create a new console, let alone market it and educate consumers correctly. Then you'd have developers having to create games for PS4, PS4 Pro, the new PS4, and any other console or platform.

More likely you'd see some small internal hardware upgrades in two years, maybe a slimmer version of the Pro. Or, even more likely, you'll see a price drop to undercut the Scorpio at launch.

Yeah, I'm not really following all the comments about PCs being on a 1.5-2 year cycle. I guess maybe that's true if you want bleeding edge performance and 4k resolution? I built my PC (i5, 970) 2 years ago and it's still going strong at 1080p. I don't imagine myself upgrading for at least another 2 years, maybe longer. The PC I had before this one lasted me 6 years and admittedly, was showing its age by the time I upgraded.

They would literally fuck everyone who bought the pro. Lose customers and loyalty. It would be a greater problem than the pro is right now being a single step upgrade.

@baconhound: Frankly I think it's people who are being defensive and/or don't understand PC gaming or have experience with it. I am not someone against consoles, I just think all this is a bad deal for consumers and I think it will be a mess if they actually try to do another update beyond this one especially. A proposed 1.5 year update cycle would be insanity for consoles.

1. Big if. Although with Microsoft being a year out of sync, it does make you wonder whether they want parity again or continue in their own cycles. And what makes you think consumers will stomach a 24 month cycle when this is the response to a 36-48 one?

2. Cutting edge costs money. Consoles remain the affordable alternative that's easier to deal with.

3. If they wanted to do that, they'd have done it already. Consoles carry a brand recognition and a fixed spec that give developers less headaches. That's why PC-first is so rare across multiplatform.

4. It's not like for like by a long stretch. Phones sell in more territories, are rented out over contracts by numerous, numerous third parties and, ultimately, a phone is essential to daily living. A console is not.

I'll also add that this 24-36 month cycle thing only works on the assumption the thing you bought 36 months ago is redundant. It's just minimum specs vs. recommended specs at the minute. And the benefits you get from the Pro hinge a little on a TV you might not be able to afford until 2020 anyway. God knows.

@shindig: People don't rent phones. If you rented your phone, you'd have to return it when the contract was up.