EV training has been simplified too. Berries to reduce stats are obtainable quickly/can get stat reset bags for super training.

@colourful_hippie said:

Can't win 'em all I guess

But I hate the new Exp Share. I want to actually USE something to level it up. Crazy, right?

I also really hate that the levels of enemies and stuff are scaled with the Exp Share in mind.

@kishinfoulux: This this this this. If you have a Pokemon that can learn the HM you should just be able to use it in the environment and not waste a move. Would be perfect.

I'm pretty sure Surf & Fly are the only HM's that are required to 'progress'. The rest block optional items etc. Though I could be wrong.

Also, just found a reset bag for super training - resets all EV stats at once! thought it was only a partial amount.

Is it an infinitely-obtainable consumable?

@ajamafalous: Yap! they're rare but I got two in a row. Final super training games can yield +12 for any EV, you can double that with a training bag too. I've been growing the berries to reduce stats but I guess they're now intended for minor adjustments to your EV's.

@ajamafalous: I think more interesting, complex, and challenging trainer AI is a higher priority to this series than addressing HMs. Trainers are a much bigger part of the game than HMs ever have been.

Kind of topic, but I feel dumb making a whole new thread for this question, I kind of want to play a Pokemon game but have no idea where to start. Is X or Y a good "first pokemon" game? Worth getting a 3DS for? Can anyone recommend a good Pokemon game for a first timer on GBA or DS?

Trainer AI doesn't bother me that much because I'm not playing the single player to be challenged; I'm playing it to collect a bunch of new Pokemon and explore the land (or whatever). I go play against other people to get my fix for challenging and heated battles.

These new ones would be a good jumping in point

Any difficulty lost was solely grinding in the older games. It was never hard, just mind numbingly boring

Time wasters being removed sounds good to me

The pokemon games have always been ridiculously easy

edit: As long as they are trying to balance the game towards XP share in mind I think its a good solution. Now the question is actually "what poke is the correct one to use here" and not "well I need to keep grinding this guy"

Wow. That's enough to get me to consider buying X/Y. Bummer that HMs still exist, though. I hate running around with a useless bird and/or rat in my team.

It feels a bit cheap to me... I dunno. I like earning my levels. I wouldn't say it shouldn't be there, but maybe there should be a choice - like use EXP share, but you don't get as much EXP for the main fighter. It used to be held item and the rest got a fraction... and HMs need to burning in fucking hell. I mean a Scyther has fucking swords for hands and can learn a bunch of slicing moves, but can't cut a bush without cut? Geezus.

I like it, I'm still playing the game the same as always but I can fill up the pokedex with some evolutions while I do so.

It seems like they've really increased the number of pokemon that are available and they're encouraging you to train them up rather than sticking to a couple dudes. I've got 3 badges and more than 2 PC boxes are totally full.

I kind of wish they'd stop handing me all these fairly powerful free pokemon though, it's a bit much.

@snail said:

Fixing HMs would be exponentially easier though. Good AI is one of the hardest things you can add to a game.

Now, I've never played a pokemon game but for a game that is all about training/capturing creatures having the bottom line process of leveling them up entirely automated like that seems... I dunno to be against the spirit of all of it I guess? Granted, as I said I'm an outsider here but seems weird that anyone who is hardcore into pokemon would want this.

@tomprestonfan: It sounds to me like you're the one with selective memory here if you're claiming leveling Pokemon before was an involved process. It wasn't hard, but hardly made for better gameplay. I always kept my Pokemon evenly leveled, but it resulted in me thinking about battles entirely in terms of who would get exp rather than who would actually be effective in a fight. There are several strategies in Pokemon that involve setting up one Pokemon to sweep or whittle down several or all of the opponents Pokemon, but given how the exp system worked I always found myself avoiding that, as that would result in one Pokemon getting far too big of a share of the exp. I've pretty much used the same basic tactics since Red/Blue because of this. Not necessarily because I want to, but because it's the most efficient way to share the exp.

It's kind of ironic that you mention Fire Emblem, because I've had similar issues with some of the older Fire Emblem games. Strategy can be pretty important in those games, but having to keep your guys leveled often meant I would plan my strategies based on who needed to get some levels rather how I could effectively and efficiently clear a map. Putting in a new squad was the worst when they were way behind and you had to spend the battle making sure they killed enemies to catch up to your team. I did not enjoy that aspect of those games.

Thus far, it hasn't made the game exponentially easier... mostly because I'm pretty sure I could solo EVERY SINGLE BATTLE I have currently engaged in with my starter. Hopefully that changes.

What the fuck is even the point of Magicarp then? Just give everyone a fucking Gyarados and be done with it.

@arbitrarywater: if you ever watch a Pokemon speed run that's always been true

The newest Pokemon game I played before this was Emerald so I'm not sure how it's been since then. But so far, and I'm not that far into the game, the routes seem shorter, have less grass to walk through, and have less trainers. If there's more EXP going around than usual, it probably balances out with there being less encounters overall. I have the Share on for now, but I'm not sure how I feel about it yet.

The fuck are some of you going on about in regards to the difficulty of these games? They've ALWAYS been easy. It's never been about the challenge. Adding something that helps quicken the process is only a good thing.

The only reason the auction house didn't work is because blizzard fucked up the loot distribution system making it more viable to grind for gold instead of gear, as for the listen mode in TLOU its another optional thing I never once used or upgraded that ability, having said that games that appeal to a wider audience because they are easier isn't a bad thing as long as there is a way to tip the scale in the other direction if you want something more challenging. Oh yeah on topic and as others have said if you find leveling to easy unequip the item that gives the boost, also heard a rumor that there is a harder mode once you beat the game, not sure about this as I haven't beat the game yet but maybe that makes the AI a bit tougher.

You can turn the Exp. Share off. It's not forced on you, so you can level your Pokémon individually if you want. And it's now behaving again just like it did in Red, Blue and Yellow (aka the original games everyone who is hardcore into Pokémon must have played). I honestly don't see a problem here: like it, use it. Don't like it, don't use it.

Really wish I had a 3DS. Ugh, might have to get one soon. Sounds pretty awesome.

X and Y is probably the best pokemon ever, but if you don't own a 3DS I'd say go with HeartGold/Soul Silver (DS) or FireRed/LeafGreen (GBA) first. They're both really good as well, and you'll appreciate X/Y more if you visit some of the older ones beforehand.

It makes leveling up way too easy. Actually I hate to say it but Pokemon x & y is starting to feel like Pokemon for babies. Too easy to level up bug pokemon to their final form and they give the 3 starter pokemon a signature move type early on. I like some sort of strategy and difficulty in my pokemon but I guess they're saving that for the collecting all +700 phase.

Of course it was never about challenge but this makes it now even more easier. And yes it is optional but 99% will use it anyway not because they thing its great but because it is there. For me the appeal of a Pokemon game was back than to level up the Pokemon you like and think are useful now this became way more easier and unimportant. Imagine Ash going around and leveling all his Pokemon like that. The whole show would have ended after 20 episodes^^

That alone might get me to buy the game. There was nothing more irritating, and horribly time-consuming than having to switch out your Pokemon. It didn't help that the interface wasn't super fast, either.

Bug-type Pokemon have leveled up/evolved at a faster rate than other types for as long as I can remember.

On-topic, at least the EXP Share is optional.

True. Also its not like the actual in-game story battles are all that difficult to begin with. The true competition is when you start battling other human players.

@nights: Bug types evolve really early, some NPC normally makes reference to that in every game.

You get butterfree and beedril when they reach level 10 for example.

@tomprestonfan: I can't believe how utterly and completely you're over reacting to this. Holy crap.

So don't use it like you said? I seriously don't see the problem with this. Why people complain about optional things always boggles my mind. Most people seem to want to rush to the "end game" so to speak and this speeds that process along. You still have the choice of doing things your way. No harm done.

@zeik said:

You absolutely are. You're practically equating this to the downfall of gaming. Seriously dude, it's not that big of a deal.

The biggest issue I have is that it becomes more and more easy and then the next game will be made even more easy to get an even wider audience. The Exp share system with no real negative effect is totally overpowered. Why even have levels at this point anymore? People are already level 40 or more without reaching the fourth gym and as I said people will use it anyway because that is how people are. If its there they will use it and then expect it to be in there for the next game as well but then maybe something else is making it even more boring and so on.

My only issue with the Exp Share is that it's starting to get difficult to weaken Pokemon without killing them. I want my other Pokemon to get xp, but I want a weak one just for catching new Pokemon. My starter and other main are 10+ levels above wild Pokemon and I only just got the first badge.

Try teaching one of your Pokemon false swipe. Should leave the wild Pokemon alive with 1 hp so you can catch 'em.

The only real thing you have to worry about now is turning off EXP sharing to make sure that your lowbies 'catch up' to your highbies.

<3 False Swipe.

Whenever I got the Exp Share I was like this is amazing but in a way I like the old way of grinding.

I love it. I finally get to absolutely destroy fools with whichever guy I want to use at the moment without worrying about constantly moving my lowest leveled guy to the front of the party. I might actually bother with breeding and egg moves and all that, now that it won't be an absolute pain in the ass to train the low level guys up (actually, I probably won't, but it's fun to dream).

Fucking finally.

As someone pointed out earlier, it's terrible for EV training, but I make sure to EV train the Pokemon I like before I go adventuring.

It takes about an hour per Pokemon for me. *shrug*

Yeah, I got that last night after posting that. :) Oops.