@cosmokramer said:
@nicolenomicon:Why do you think this joke was transphobic? I honestly don't see it. This joke is mocking the physical appearance of individuals, regardless of gender groups. He's not saying that trans people in general are ugly or that MTF transition makes you ugly, he's not even saying that Caitlyn Jenner is ugly. He's making fun of Mickey Rourke and Brett Michaels, basically saying that Michaels looks like an effeminate Rourke, and that they're both awful looking. Now, criticizing people's physical appearance for fun is shitty, there's no denying that, but it's nothing against trans people or any gender group in particular either.
And the feeling in this thread shouldn't surprise you. It's clear that LGBTQI people are experiencing serious discrimination in our society, online or offline. However, there's been a backlash in recent years in the form of people on social media attacking lots of posts mentioning minorities that are not neutral commentary or clear praise. Jokes at the expense of anybody who's trans/queer are automatically taken for bigotry, even if it's just about the person as an individual and not his/her race/religion/sexual orientation/gender identity. Mob justice is too strong of a word, there's lots of insensitive and ignorant idiots out there who deserved to be told what's what, even if it's done bluntly. Making harmful generalizations on trans & queer people is fucking terrible and should be called and treated as such, but around the edges you have lots of collateral damage. Harmless people making obvious jokes made of sensitive words, quips that common sense should filter out as stupid fun. But instead, some users take it as a direct attack on a community of tens of millions, wasting precious energy by making hurtful assumptions on somebody who just wanted to make a dumb joke. As a result, it's feeding the myth that "you people should just chill out, it's the 21st century, homophobia and transphobia are behind us".
I'm not saying anything goes, but I'm not saying none shall pass either.
When you say “This man looks like this man tried to be a woman”, you are perpetuating awful stereotypes of transgender people that make their lives worse, actively working against public acceptance for transgender people and continuing the circulation of ideas that literally get them killed.
If you're just trying to say "this man looks like an effeminate version of this man", why even bring a trans woman into it at all? The answer is: The trans woman is the joke. The punchline is "Dude looks like a lady, but is still a dude."
You are saying “trans women look like men.” You are saying “trans women are just men trying to be women.” You are bringing up that trans women are designated/assigned male at birth and saying they can’t escape that and you’ll always compare them to men or men to them, which ALSO says that’s how you view them. You are saying it’s funny to emasculate somebody by comparing them to icky ugly trannies(don't ever use this word. It's not shorthand, it's not slang, it's disgusting and awful and I'm only using it for emphasis) ewwwww which is both a shot against trans people and also reinforces harmful patriarchial ideas such as “men are better than women and comparing men to being like a woman is funny.”
Comparing a man to a trans woman or vice versa is transmisogyny, no discussion necessary.
@hinderk said:
I'm going to copy and paste what I wrote in a reddit thread. Talking about stuff like this makes me a bit nervous and I was probably going to write something similar. Hopefully that's ok.
I'm trans and want to try and explain why some people find stuff like this offensive. Not the best at explaining my feelings and opinions but here whatever.
Most depictions of trans people in the media are super shitty. Many times trans people are just used as a punchline that boils down to "LOL This woman has a penis!" or "This man thinks he is a woman, what a freak". Knowing that a lot of people think you are a freak or a joke can get to you after awhile.
Baker's joke to me seems to be a less offensive way of saying "Brett Michaels looks like a tr**ny(not sure if I can use the actual word in this sub)". Not sure if that was his intention but that is what I got out of the joke. Being a big fan of Troy Baker and his work it sort of depressing knowing that he probably thinks you're a freak. Does that make any sense?
That being said, I don't think people should have attacked him or anything. Wish people would have just tried to explain why the joke hurt them instead lashing out at him. Also still a fan of Troy Baker just think him making the joke sort of sucks. If I hated every person or thing that made a transphobic joke I would probably hate everything lol.
As a trans girl, I'm not surprised this happened. Disappointed, yes, but not surprised. His reaction to the criticism is what irks me more than him actually saying it because at this point it's never a surprise when people say awful shit about me and people like me, but it's still a bummer when they refuse to acknowledge their hurtful words.
Log in to comment