briarpack

My opinion of CDPR has gone down gradually during the last couple of years. I more or less called things ending up like this back when Cyberpunk got delayed the second time in June so these latest developments haven't really affected that much; as far as labour practices and management goes, my opinion can't sink much lower at this point.

As a game Cyberpunk is okay, if you get lucky and can look past the bugs, poor performance and missing features, there's a solid core in there somewhere. Unfortunately getting this game to be of acceptable quality for everyone will no doubt come with an unacceptable human cost, because why stop now.

No hard feelings, sorry it got so heated :D

I mean, yeah. This is a fundamental disagreement. I think tight regulation of overtime is a necessity, shaking crunch culture is hard otherwise.

Do they? Do all 20 of those people want to work themselves to the bone? None of them want to spend time with their families, or their families with them? None of them are, for example, against it but stay late because the guy next to them does, just because of peer pressure? There isn't a culture of pressuring workers into crunch in the video game industry?

There's a lot that you don't understand about the intricacies of this issue and I can't be arsed to teach you.

Please stop.

Yup, if you're not willing to do that much and say that I don't understand the subject while implying things like crunch culture being even remotely related to work ethic, then there's nothing to talk about. Good talk.

E:

"crunch is more bug related than ethic related in origin."

"A lot of people in the industry, at least the ones I was fortunate enough to work with, will tell you that they live for crunch"

I... What? The reason why crunch happens was not what I was talking about at all. Also, the core issue of crunch does stem from bad labour practices and worker exploitation, holy fuck. The mentality of "living for crunch" is unfortunately a massive part of the problem. You're not even minimizing the issue, you're now just straight up defending crunch in no unclear terms.

Please, please, please go read up on crunch culture in the video game industry so you have a basic understanding of what that concept encompasses.

There are a ton of articles and Schreier has written about this topic a lot and there's a pretty good talk about unionization from Nite Two of E3 2019.

Boycotts seem counterproductive to me. Unionization and conversation about the subject would be the key.

You can claim I've misunderstood you as many times as you want, but it's still clear that you were still minimizing crunch in the video game industry by saying that it's not that bad compared the service industry. And you've kept saying it.

That's cool, I didn't expect to see people defend crunch on Giant Bomb either, but the past year or so, and specifically Cyberpunk, has definitely dashed those dreams.

E:

"And for the record the sleeping in the office time was, by far, the highlight of my working career. Not everyone is opposed to hard work and long hours, its only when its forced on those that don't want to do it that it becomes a bad thing."

Yeah, okay, it's now abundantly clear that you don't know what crunch is and what kinds of pressure the culture imposes on people. Also, saying shit like "Not everyone is opposed to hard work and long hours" in context of crunch is fucking awful.

Maybe if you just took the first sentence of you post, maybe. But in the context of the whole thing... No :D Don't try to pull that now.

If you were just trying to point out bad working conditions in the service industy (completely unprompted, which would be kind of strange) there would be no need to compare it to the gaming industry while telling people that "perspective is required". Absolutely vile shit.

Why is it that now suddenly crunch does mean bad working conditions? Also... jesus christ.

E:

"Point is for anyone taking 'action' against it should be aware of how hypocritical they might be being in their crusade for justice."

H-hello? What? Where is the hypocricy in speaking out against crunch? What the fuck?

I don't use Facebook, I wouldn't know what you mean.

What I do know is that you literally did try to minimize crunch by pointing out that in your opinion harder jobs exist. And absolutely no one asked. There is no perspective that is required to understand that 100 -hour work weeks are fucking bad. Take Screier's advice, it's addressed directly to you:

E: Okay, I'll take it from your edit that you literally just don't know the definition of crunch. Carry on...

I couldn't help but notice that people in this thread are justifying crunch, this is a friendly reminder to stop doing that shit.

I'm going to keep this two virgils, I pre-ordered the collector's edition like a year and a half ago and bought a second copy just because it's likely that the collector's edition won't arrive by launch time. It's one of those games where I just have to play it myself regardless of what reviews say.