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If you listened to the bombcast at all you heard Brad talk about the Underground passageways he found across the island that he couldn't figure out how to get inside. I would recommend to not stop exploring until you've wrapped up that loose end, and until you've experienced the credits.

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@bushpusherr: I understand where he's coming from on that point. For instance, the tetris puzzles: after I saw the first few tutorial panels I knew precisely what the concept was and what the area was asking of me, figuring out that much is simple. The hard part is actually mentally visualizing and plotting out the correct path. I actually found it next to impossible to work out in my head, and it took dozens of tries on each individual panel to agonizingly tease out the solutions. That so far has been the one area and concept where I felt definite, sustained frustration at knowing what to do but being unable to do it. In the end it took me somewhere in the neighborhood of 4-5 hours to solve that one area, and I needed to make a large set of physical props (grids, tetromino cutouts) to do so. It's easy to see why some people would find this difficult to tolerate.

For the record, I do like this game quite a bit despite all that.

Well, right, what you are saying makes sense, and for some of the larger tetromino ones i absolutely did the same. But visualizing and plotting out the correct path *is* the puzzle. The visual aids and notebooks are there to help you tease out that process and find the solution. The OP was saying that they knew the solution already and then had to mess with graphs and pictures. That is what doesn't make sense to me. Maybe instead of "I know the solution" the OP actually meant "I understand the rules." Those are two very different things in this context

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@zevvion said:

The other thing is that for some puzzles, which are the ones I can complete now, figuring out how to solve it takes far less time than inputting the correct pattern. I suppose this is a thing the game is being praised for, but figuring out the solution and then having to actually input that solution by taking screenshots/drawing notes is not fun. I know the answer, I figured it out. When I do, I want to proceed. Not having to do, what honestly feels like work, before I can move along.

I don't think I really understand what you're getting at here. Surely the notes and screenshots are used to *figure out* the solution in the first place, what busy work are you doing after you already know the answer? If you know the solution, just draw the line?

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@blaineblaine said:
@bushpusherr said:

@blaineblaine:

The problem is you aren't respecting the icons inside your isolations....

In this first image, you've isolated all three of the icons into one group, which means you can reorganize the positions of those shapes within that isolation however you wish. (Looking at the image from left to right, you could fit those three shapes in these orders: 3x3x1, 3x1x3, or 1x3x3) You can *only* do this sort of reordering because you've encapsulated all three icons in the same isolated section.

No Caption Provided

In the second image, you've created three separate groups to encapsulate the icons, instead of one. Now, inherently there isn't anything wrong with giving each icon it's own isolation (as you pointed out yourself in your last image). However, the *icon inside the isolation must fit*. Looking at isolation #1 in the above image, you've only sectioned off 1 cell to hold a shape that must be at least 3 large. Inversely, for isolation #2 you've created an isolation containing 3 spaces, but the icon inside demands that only one space is allowed. Isolation #3 is being correctly used here. Here is another image to demonstrate:

No Caption Provided

Out of curiosity, this does not appear to follow that rule:

No Caption Provided

The 3 vertical pieces would not fit in the area given of the icon. But it is a part of the overall whole. It's acceptable to transpose where the key icons lay in the total outline, so long as the pieces fit. At least, to me, shows what I was attempting isn't an incorrect solution.

And it might be a question of ambiguity, that it's not 'right' because it's not the 'right' that Johnathan is looking for, even if it seemingly follows his rules.

And I do agree, many of you may be right that I'm just at this section too early... but the bridge at the beginning moves, and I'll be damned if I can find a way out without going forward.

It is following the same rule. I think maybe the problem is that you're thinking of the area outside the box/panel as being part of the isolated area, but the edges of the box are hard borders in the same way that the line your drawer.

I'm convinced this must be your hangup here, as I don't think I could really explain the rules any clearer. If you consider that the borders of the puzzle grid also serve to "close off" an isolated section, then I think it is rather obvious that what you were attempting is unambiguously incorrect. There is no ambiguity in the rules. They are very definite and consistent.

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505 +81 and I have to fucking call it a night. The (presumably) last thing you have to do in this game is fucking hysterical. I just don't have it in me right now at this early hour, but holy shit this fucking thing LOL I really hope the Bombinos get there because I can't wait to hear what they think of it. Brilliant.

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#7  Edited By bushpusherr

Currently at 460 +79. I finished the 11 areas and was rummaging around for a few hours trying to track down one major loose end, and I finally made it there. I see many more puzzles coming in quickly now.

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I definitely have some thoughts, but they would be way too spoilery. I've finished the game, experienced credits, and I'm still rifling through "bonus" content (on my way to the second steam achievement currently). I'll just say this: I think everyone should play until they've tied up all the major loose ends they know about.

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#9  Edited By bushpusherr

@blaineblaine:

The problem is you aren't respecting the icons inside your isolations.

No Caption Provided

In this first image, you've isolated all three of the icons into one group, which means you can reorganize the positions of those shapes within that isolation however you wish. (Looking at the image from left to right, you could fit those three shapes in these orders: 3x3x1, 3x1x3, or 1x3x3) You can *only* do this sort of reordering because you've encapsulated all three icons in the same isolated section.

No Caption Provided

In the second image, you've created three separate groups to encapsulate the icons, instead of one. Now, inherently there isn't anything wrong with giving each icon it's own isolation (as you pointed out yourself in your last image). However, the *icon inside the isolation must fit*. Looking at isolation #1 in the above image, you've only sectioned off 1 cell to hold a shape that must be at least 3 large. Inversely, for isolation #2 you've created an isolation containing 3 spaces, but the icon inside demands that only one space is allowed. Isolation #3 is being correctly used here. Here is another image to demonstrate:

No Caption Provided

Hopefully this makes the distinction clear. One thing to note however if you were to actually try the outline of this last image there is actually no way to isolate the "1" piece by itself as shown here because you can't wrap the line all the way around it; it would need to be adjacent to a wall for that. This explains why for some of these puzzles, some or all of the tetrominos absolutely *must* be grouped together in order to fit. The size/condition of the board and the number/size of the shapes included will determine if it is necessary or not. Hopefully this clears things up, because if you intend to continue playing this game, this information is absolutely crucial.

Also, regarding "orientation," the tetrominos do need to be aligned the same way as their icon displays. However, you'll notice that the 3-piece icons in this puzzle are slightly titled and aren't aligned evenly with the grid. This is significant, and if you haven't been tutorialized on what this difference means yet then perhaps you should leave this yellow walkway puzzle until you've encountered those tutorials for that specific mechanic.

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I don't think this is poorly designed or inconsistent at all. It might be inconsistent with the assumptions you made about the rules, but the contradiction(s) you are noticing aren't a failure in the design of the puzzle or the rules, it's the red flag that should tip you off that your initial assumptions were incorrect. The logic that this displays is that if an icon of a tetromino is contained within an isolation, then that shape as a whole needs to fit inside that isolation. The placement of that shape within the isolation is irrelevant as long as:
1. The icon is present
2. There are enough cells grouped together in such a way that the shape can rest as a whole without overlapping cells with any other shape contained within the isolation
3. There are no extra cells in the isolation unaccounted for.