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clush

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The MW2 debate from a competitive player's perspective

Seeing a lot of reactions on here saying people don't understand what exactly is going on here, what the big deal is. Apparently Brad doesn't really understand either. Being a rather hardcore competitive PC-gamer who's played every CoD since the original Call of Duty at a reasonably high level I'll try to confirm the situation (see what I just did?) and explain what the problems are that some PC players are having with the current plans for IWNET the way it's looking at the moment. 

Grab a drink and sit back because this will probably turn out to be quite an extensive post. Ready? Here we go!

Firstly, let's have a look at IWNET and its most important features:

  • Matchmaking. Instead of choosing a game from a serverbrowser yourself IWNET will hook you up with a game it thinks suits you best.
  • Peer-To-Peer (p2p) connections. Instead of connecting to a central server everybody connects to eachother directly.
  • Customizable games. Instead of loading a manually edited configuration-file and usercreated modifications onto a central server players can now set various parameters before opening up their lobby.


To the casual PC-player and people who play online games on their console this probably looks fair enough. Truth be told, the casual gamer will probably have an experience similar to what they're used to, with a little less control over what kind of game they're gonna end up in. The not-so-casual gamer, however, will have some issues with this. I'll go through the features listed above and try to explain why.

Matchmaking

First of all one has to appreciate the fact that online PC gaming is more community-based than online console gaming, which is more individualistic. I can prove this by pointing out that PC's have a keyboard, which makes chatting while playing much easier. Every server out there for CoD4 represents a community. Players come back to the servers they like, get to know other regulars, make friends and tend to make servers they particularly like their home. Matchmaking makes this pretty much impossible, as one will end up with random players everytime they create or join a game. Of course, one can invite his friends into a lobby and still play together, but this has to be arranged beforehand through some other means of communication. It will also be impossible, or at least a great struggle, for other friends to join the game at a later stage. For players who value playing with people they know personally or who are part of a certain community or clan, dedicated servers are actually way more userfriendly than usercreated lobbies and the hassle of inviting everyone they know into their game, as one can simply connect to their favourite server and find out what other regulars and friends are on.

Peer-to-Peer

This is where the competitive player in me gets really sad. In order to have good, clean, fair clanbattles a good connection to the game is an absolute must. Bear in mind that shooters on a PC, because of the controls, are very much more fast-paced than their console equivalents. Much more than on a console literally fractions of seconds are more often than not the difference between life and death. Getting killed because of connection issues can take the fun out of a game at a frighteningly fast rate. Therefor, a decent ping and a reliable connection is a top priority. It is of course possible to get lucky and have a relatively fast connection to the host, but it is very unlikely for this to be the case for all present players. If one somehow however does manage to get a decent ping there's still the issue of reliability. I probably needn't tell you that most users' home networks are nowhere near as reliable (or fast, for that matter) as dedicated servers in a datacenter. Implementing this will kill the competitive scene before it's born.

Customizable games

Although customization in itself is a good thing, IW have a bit of a history here. Up untill now any proper competitive settings have had to come from the community who created modifications like PAM or ProMod. Playing CoD4 competitively out of the box is absolutely impossible and I think this speaks volumes about IW's and Activisions commitment to facilitating e-sports (it's not there). On this matter, however, we will just have to wait and see. For me, the presence of a competitive mode is an absolute must, and lack thereof a sure dealbreaker. By competitive I mean the following things: a ready-up mode before the actual game starts, brighter textures, no mist etc., some weapons not allowed, some weapon classes limited to one per team, positively no air-support, limited or no perks, automated switching of sides, a half-time break (with another ready-up period), the ability to pause the game, strat-time before each round, etc. etc. Even something simple like the ability to drop the bomb in SD has had to come from modifications and not IW. I sincerely hope IW have talked to an e-sports representative and will provide an adequate competitive mod, but somehow I really doubt this being the case.

The competitive community can probably get around the matchmaking. It will be a bit of a hassle, but whatever. The other two points I mentioned however are a sure way to kill off anything that might resemble a competitive scene. I can't really speak for the realism-scene or the casual yet social communities, but I'm pretty sure the implications for those sides of the spectrum are pretty severe as well.

Of course there's more in life than the next CoD game, and in the greater scheme of things it's not something to get too upset about, but to a loyal fan like myself who's been playing IW's games since the first Call of Duty this probably marks the end of an era... with a stab in the back. I'm not about to print out bumperstickers or call 402 names, and I'll probably move on to another game like counterstrike, TF2 or QuakeLive, but goddamnit, it sucks.

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Out_On_Bail

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Edited By Out_On_Bail
@risingsunset7890 said:
  IW saying that the new matchmaking system is "better" to an informed gaming community is an additional slap to the face.  

 
 How on earth do you know what this matchmaking is going to be like? What have you played on IWNet to know how good (or bad) it works? What makes you think you know more about the infrastructure of COD than the actual developer's of the game? There's so many assumptions in your post it's crazy. I understand being upset about losing dedicated servers, but stop acting like the sky is falling. Buy it or don't buy it, you have that choice. Something core to gaming on your PC is mouse and keyboard, you still have that.
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Zatoichi_Sanjuro

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Edited By Zatoichi_Sanjuro
@KimChi4U said:

 Although I don't play shooters on a PC, I can see this guy's point. Then again, if MW2 on the PC isn't going to make the players happy, then they potenially could save themselves $60 by continuing to just play CoD4. "

I know I will.
 
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMNpVrrELDM
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Milkman

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Edited By Milkman

Calling yourself a competitive gamer is really lame. Everyone is trying to win. What makes you so "competitive"? We're all playing video games here folks. Let's remember that.

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kagekage

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Edited By kagekage

As a console gamer, I fully support PC gamer's complaints against this. I can see why you guys are mad about the loss of dedicated servers. 

 But the real thing that pisses me off is the other console gamers here that try to tell the PC gamers to shut up and stop complaining. How the fuck would we EVER know the importance of the dedicated servers? Because we've played some Counterstrike or something on the PC a few times? 

Nuh-uh. And I'm not saying that there aren't some elitists here, but they would keep to themselves on this board if retarded fuckers who bash on PC and say that PC gamers are babies keep to themselves too.
 
Jesus christ, I'm still in high school and I'm probably smarter than some of these dumb fuckers here. Console people who hate PC, and PC elitists:
SHUT THE FUCK UP.

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kagekage

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Edited By kagekage
@Kblt said:
" @MAN_FLANNEL said:
" Everyone knows why you PC guys are upset, but the thing is we don't care.  "
Having fun with your inferior graphics on your inferior system with inferior controls? "
Shut the fuck up, you're as bad as the console flamers here.
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tbone81889

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@Mooshu said:
" @tbone81889 said:
" @Mooshu: @Mooshu said:
" @MAN_FLANNEL said:


"
That sure is hypocritical comming from someone who previously said "Everyone knows why you PC guys are upset, but the thing is we don't care." "
I don't want to be a dick or anything, but thats not hypocritical.  Being hypocritical means that you pretend to believe in something when you actually don't. "
Hipocracy is the act of professing beliefs, feelings or virtues when they in fact hold no such beliefs, feelings, or virtures. Dude in question complained about Elitism when he in fact said a rather Elitist remark before hand. That's hypocritical.  Not to be a dick, or anything. "
Thats not hypocritical because its missing that part of "holding no such belief."  The person instead was just being a dick.
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clush

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Edited By clush
@Milkman said:

" Calling yourself a competitive gamer is really lame. Everyone is trying to win. What makes you so "competitive"? "


Don't pretend not to understand, man. Is it really that hard to grasp that with different ways of playing a game come different levels of competition? If you really don't get it I'll give you a little hint: it has something to do with taking part in organized competitions. Unless you think of everything in life as a competition... in which case I'll take your point, and feel sorry for you. If you want to turn this into a game of words I'll happily take you on, but let's do it elsewhere.

@Milkman said:

" We're all playing video games here folks. Let's remember that. "

And there you go answering your own question. I trust you're clever enough to see how, which suits me fine, as explaining the obvious gets old really quick.

@kagekage said:

" Jesus christ, I'm still in high school and I'm probably smarter than some of these dumb fuckers here. "

You probably are, dude. I like your style.
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Fuzz_Butt

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Edited By Fuzz_Butt
@Milkman said:
" Calling yourself a competitive gamer is really lame. Everyone is trying to win. What makes you so "competitive"? We're all playing video games here folks. Let's remember that. "
Competitive gamers play games differently than the casual player. They set up the game so that it's as balanced as it can get, which is why they make rules like which guns you can or can use, etc.
 
You might think "well that doesn't like fun" but the truth is a lot of developers don't know how to make a multiplayer game balanced and the oblivious player will keep getting killed in cheap ways without ever seeing the problems.
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jASPWN

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Edited By jASPWN

I think a few key points are being missed here..

"You can train a n00b, but he'll just be a trained n00b..."

 "You can take a n00b to water but you can't make a n00b drink"

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phonics

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Edited By phonics

CoD 4 and competitive in the same sentence. Christ almighty.

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clush

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Edited By clush
@Phonics said:
" CoD 4 and competitive in the same sentence. Christ almighty. "
Uhm, yes? Either you know there is such a thing and are being a just another trolling dipshit or you don't and would be better off keeping your ignorance to yourself.
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DCFGS3

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Edited By DCFGS3

I don't see why the console gamers are even bothering with this. Seriously, you might have fun with your inferior matchmaking system, and really, it is inferior, so go have fun with that, stop whining about the PC gamers cpmplaining when something they don't like happens. It's childish, we don't want this IWNET bullshit, so we complain to make it change. We don't complain to you, or about console matchmaking, we complain to IW about forcing console matchmaking on PC gamers, so what the fuck are you guys doing whining at all? Are you just trying to score points because you're secretly upset you never got access to dedicated servers, or are you trying to discourage us from trying to change IW's minds so we won't end up with a better multiplayer system than you (again)?

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phonics

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Edited By phonics
@clush said:
" @Phonics said:
" CoD 4 and competitive in the same sentence. Christ almighty. "
Uhm, yes? Either you know there is such a thing and are being a just another trolling dipshit or you don't and would be better off keeping your ignorance to yourself. "
Yeah I'm a trolling dipshit. Enjoy your three guns and your 'competitive' gaming in a game that was never ment to be competitive.
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pwnasaurus

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@MAN_FLANNEL said:
" @Kblt said:
" @MAN_FLANNEL said:
" Everyone knows why you PC guys are upset, but the thing is we don't care.  "
Having fun with your inferior graphics on your inferior system with inferior controls? "
A 300% increase in price for a 10% increase in graphics is something I'm not stupid enough to pay for.   I prefer a 360 controller to a mouse and keyboard on anything but MMOs.  I also like playing from my couch, desk, and video rocker chair.  Being forced to sit at my desk in the same position in hours on end doesn't appeal to me.   Yes I am having fun.  "

oh thats weird how you said you like to play on your xbox from your desk but in the next sentance talk about how you hate sitting at your desk... and then call some one an elitist when you just said you dont care about their problems...
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clush

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Edited By clush
@Phonics said:
" Yeah I'm a trolling dipshit. Enjoy your three guns and your 'competitive' gaming in a game that was never ment to be competitive. "

That's fair enough, then. I can't blame you for not liking the game, just as you can't blame me for liking it (even though you're showing that YOU in fact can... that, however, says more about you than it does about me). You're too right when saying it was never meant to be competitive, or at least IW did a great job of making it seem so. But within like a month the first release of PAM was available turning it into (I think) a great competitive game. And that goes to show how much IW owes to modders for keeping the game alive for longer than otherwise would be possible to even dream of. Also, what does the number of guns have to do with anything? Ever played counterstrike? Or is that not a game suitable for competitive play either?


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MAN_FLANNEL

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@pwnasaurus said:
" @MAN_FLANNEL said:
" @Kblt said:
" @MAN_FLANNEL said:
" Everyone knows why you PC guys are upset, but the thing is we don't care.  "
Having fun with your inferior graphics on your inferior system with inferior controls? "
A 300% increase in price for a 10% increase in graphics is something I'm not stupid enough to pay for.   I prefer a 360 controller to a mouse and keyboard on anything but MMOs.  I also like playing from my couch, desk, and video rocker chair.  Being forced to sit at my desk in the same position in hours on end doesn't appeal to me.   Yes I am having fun.  "
oh thats weird how you said you like to play on your xbox from your desk but in the next sentance talk about how you hate sitting at your desk... and then call some one an elitist when you just said you dont care about their problems... "
I don't sit at my desk for hours at a time, which you have to do for a PC.  I enjoy the flexibility of being able to play a game from anywhere I can see my tv.
And not caring about other people problems doesn't make me an elitist.
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mracoon

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Edited By mracoon

Nice blog post, it really spells out the problems with IWNET. My biggest problem is, apart from it using matchmaking, p2p and no mods, is that they haven't really told us anything good about this amazing new service they've been boasting about. If it's such a great alternative to the perfectly fine system that was already there why don't you tell us more about it and not reveal on some random fan podcast.

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clush

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Edited By clush
@mracoon said:
" Nice blog post, it really spells out the problems with IWNET. My biggest problem is, apart from it using matchmaking, p2p and no mods, is that they haven't really told us anything good about this amazing new service they've been boasting about. If it's such a great alternative to the perfectly fine system that was already there why don't you tell us more about it and not reveal on some random fan podcast. "
Thanks, mate. Yeah, you're right, for something they call "the biggest investment in a PC version Infinity Ward ever made" it's really, really quiet. If it's so awesome, why is any actual news we're getting such a big bummer? It could simply be horrible PR, but seeing how IW looks like they're taking PR very seriously, I'd almost believe that there just isn't that much "awesome" going on to report about.
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turbomonkey138

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Edited By turbomonkey138
@MAN_FLANNEL said:
" @pwnasaurus said:
" @MAN_FLANNEL said:
" @Kblt said:
" @MAN_FLANNEL said:
" Everyone knows why you PC guys are upset, but the thing is we don't care.  "
Having fun with your inferior graphics on your inferior system with inferior controls? "
A 300% increase in price for a 10% increase in graphics is something I'm not stupid enough to pay for.   I prefer a 360 controller to a mouse and keyboard on anything but MMOs.  I also like playing from my couch, desk, and video rocker chair.  Being forced to sit at my desk in the same position in hours on end doesn't appeal to me.   Yes I am having fun.  "
oh thats weird how you said you like to play on your xbox from your desk but in the next sentance talk about how you hate sitting at your desk... and then call some one an elitist when you just said you dont care about their problems... "
I don't sit at my desk for hours at a time, which you have to do for a PC.  I enjoy the flexibility of being able to play a game from anywhere I can see my tv. And not caring about other people problems doesn't make me an elitist. "
No it just makes you a twat !
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ShaneM90

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Edited By ShaneM90

First of all let me say. Great write up, Sums up what is going on for the competitive side on this game and what we would all like. 
And then let me comment on the discussion at hand. Most xbox users don't give a damn about the competitive side of the game because they care more about achieving some new rank or unlocking some xbox live award, or something of that nature, the console hasn't been competitive for years,  yeah sure you can throw some big names out like halo,madden etc. it doesn't matter the point im trying to send here is that the gaming style of a PC and the Xbox are so different that i dont understand why they would port the game, if they are going to port a game from the 360 and expect that a LARGE group of users who enjoy playing a game competitively with friends or with there team cant. It is going to piss us off, yeah like that one dude is saying..he doesn't care =( yeah well i don't care about your lounging ya tool. 

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BurntPieCrust

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Edited By BurntPieCrust

I definitely agree with that, however a lot of people get competitive over the actual awards, a lot of people in my school play solely so they can say "hey i prestiged already!"  its a completely different aspect to the game, which brings up the thought that, though the game might be made for a specific style of gameplay, you can always put a twist on it when you have a select group of people playing, which from what im understanding was removed from the PC (i honestly dont quite understand the entire issue, there has been far to much arguing and insulting for me to even grasp the whole situation)

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h0lgr

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Edited By h0lgr
@clush said:

" @Phonics said:

" CoD 4 and competitive in the same sentence. Christ almighty. "
Uhm, yes? Either you know there is such a thing and are being a just another trolling dipshit or you don't and would be better off keeping your ignorance to yourself. "
The idiot never looked at the number of people online on the IRC competitive channels or other programs like Garena.
COD4 competitive play is huge, and I'm with you, pal. I've also been playing since CoD 1 and I could never have been more let down. 
I've actually made money out of COD4 competitive play, believe it or not. Say what you will, but I assure you that competitive play for Call of Duty have always held an extremely high standard up until now.
People have already managed to hack both command console and dedicated servers out of this shitbox, so I'm sure we'll eventually get our PROmod fix.
At least I hope so...
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kenya24

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Edited By kenya24

I wonder why IW would even bother to take such a stand like this. What is the purpose of pissing people off? It doesn't really matter if there's 10 PC gamers or 10 million. Point is they're pissed now. 

  • Xbox live console gamers should be pissed because our xbox live subscription fee is basically there to pay for this matchmaking service, and now PC will have a similar service for free in the same game, and they don't even want it. Kinda makes me wonder why I'm paying for...
  • Removing something that is crucial to the pc platform (and a standard for years) is kind of an enormous slap to the face. No two ways to look at it. @ risingsunset7890 said it in this forum, remove the friends list from xbox live and watch what happens.
  • All the console guys that are brushing off this issue are probably hypocrites. Who hasn't complained about the foul-mouthed screaming 13 year old meatheads that xbox live matches you with. A "Kick" feature like on PC would be a GODSEND. I mean a group of gamers that you can guarantee act like civilized humans... Sounds like a utopia.

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jmrwacko

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Edited By jmrwacko

It's so sad that MW2 had to come to this. IW should have just rode on the CoD4 formula for the PC version of MW2, and none of this discontent would have happened.