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@plan6 said:

@curiosus: I second this. People can be proud of their work. But if there were some questionable business practices lead to the production of that work, that is part of the discussion about the work.

It doesn’t help that the artist above doesn’t provide many details. If people are going after workers directly, that no good. Going after the heads of the studio or management, that is different.

Its not just management or leadership at naughty dog perpetuating this toxic culture though. As Jason Schrier mentioned in his article, they go out of their way to hire people that don't question the culture, or will come to its defence. Thats how these companies survive and ruin lives in the process when someone can no longer cope. If someone speaks up to defend their own poor treatment and the poor treatment of people who spoke out after losing their job or quiting then they absolutely should be told its not ok. Being a worker or a willing victim doesn't put you beyond criticism. Management is counting on those voices to muddy the waters and provide cover for their bad practice.

That said there will always be gamergaters around looking to be vile whenever a controversy gives them an opening to distract people and cause mayhem.

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@drbroel said:

I want to say. To anyone who has a conscience. Don't support Activision and Blizzard. Don't buy their games. Don't use their services.

Their implicit support of the brutal invasion of Hong Kong is fucking evil. More lives will be lost and destroyed from this than from an 85-hour workweek.

If you want to boycott both ND and Activision, fine. But if you are only going to boycott one, please don't support Activision/Blizzard.

Blizzard/Activision are a terrible company who engage in crunch, terrible consumer practices and suck up to China. Everything should be mentioned when their games are discussed. But thats a bit of a stretch to claim their awful handling of Hong Kong protests is doing more harm directly than having their own workers damage their health from overwork.

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#3  Edited By curiosus

@drbroel said:

@curiosus:

Crunch is bad.

Insulting the victims of Crunch because they are proud of their work is bad, TOO.

Stop insulting low-level workers who are proud of the thing they made.

Defending anti-union sentiment and self-harming working practices is terrible and unjustifiable. Stop doing it you are encouraging harmful working practices.

Getting caught up in respecting people's opinions more than their health and well-being is never going to work out well.

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@drbroel said:

@curiosus said:

@drbroel said:

an artist at naughty tweeted this to some of the backlash already brewing over this

No Caption Provided

She has nothing to discuss with her therapist about her working conditions or what other people have gone through there, but some people reacting badly to it online is a crisis? People like her are part of the problem, I don't see why she expects anyone to come to her defence. Maybe stop being so self-absorbed that you think its ok to be proud of something that broke many of your fellow workers, or excluded others from even participating. She or at least the workers chiming in to agree with her are anti-union.

Seeing some comments here attacking her. I do not think it's appropriate to attack the employees of studios with crunch because they want their work to be appreciated. She certainly has a better understanding of what would be good for her and her fellow ("broken"?) employees than outsiders do. If there's no empathy for them, then what are we even trying to accomplish?

Many of Naughty Dog's employees are comfortable with and perpetuate a toxic culture of crunch because it suits them. It's not appropiate to defend these people, they are part of the problem as much as bad leadership. Someone who thinks they can work 100 hour weeks and not suffer any personal problems from it is not someone who understands what is good for them. What are you trying to accomplish, the perpetuation of bad working conditions because some employees seem fine with it, and on that basis we should just accept an opinion that flies in the face of any scientitic study on overwork?
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@grayfox666:

I have no problem with it being mentioned, but game reviewers should take on the view of the consumer. A game should not be reviewed based on the conditions it was made because frankly the vast majority of consumers are not invested in the industry and simply put down their money in hopes of being sufficiently satisfied. it is of huge importance that bad working conditions are pointed out, but a consumer who throws down their own money on a product should not be lectured to. It’s a very difficult situation because of the times we live in, but frankly I do not believe Call of Duty (COD) players should be required to view a Black Lives Matter (BLM) screen before a game. Infinity Ward (IW) should be taking down ALL of the racist usernames, but again a consumer should not be told how to feel about products they spend their money on.

If people want to be shitty and irresponsible with their spending thats on them, they are going to hear about it constantly though, being a shitty consumer has wider consequences to society.

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@drbroel said:

an artist at naughty tweeted this to some of the backlash already brewing over this

No Caption Provided

She has nothing to discuss with her therapist about her working conditions or what other people have gone through there, but some people reacting badly to it online is a crisis? People like her are part of the problem, I don't see why she expects anyone to come to her defence. Maybe stop being so self-absorbed that you think its ok to be proud of something that broke many of your fellow workers, or excluded others from even participating. She or at least the workers chiming in to agree with her are anti-union.

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Its using Denuvo so gonna be awhile before thats gone. Sega at least have a track record of getting rid of it but I'm fed up of the security theatre of it all. This is a game you can emulate so slapping DRM on it is a waste of everyones time. I look forward to playing it hopefully sooner rather than later.

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#9  Edited By curiosus

Animal crossing didn't make these people behave like this, thats just the medium you interacted with them on. You seem to be blaming the game a little, and not interactions with people who may be new to online gaming or even online, and who have no idea how to behave and not ruin others experiences, and also are likely bored and stressed and therefore a little heightened and erratic. It took way too long for me to learn to back off other's play and I still make mistakes from time to time after 2 decades.

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#10  Edited By curiosus

@sahalarious The ideas set for adventure time was bad but I have some of the characters as proper minfigs via dimensions. Dimensions was overpriced but most shops started discounting heavily when it ended. Still sucks that they missed PB and Ice King, and the Jake Minifig is weirdly bad. https://brickset.com/sets/tag-Adventure-Time