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Darkly

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@brighty said:

@jimmyfenix said:

I have mixed opinions about a DMC 5 if that game is in the works it has to be all fan service right ?

Thats a pretty broad logic leap to make, I think they're simply just going back to what the fans wanted (i.e. a continuation of the original series and the original series style of gameplay and over-the-top Bayonetta-esque action) because DmC was slammed from its inception by fans, failed to attract enough new fans to make up for alienating some of the older ones, and as a result the game ultimately bombed.

Sales are a trailing indicator though, DMC4 being received lukewarmly by fans is also likely a symptom of poor sales of the follow-up (much like DMC3's amazing showing was responsible for a lot of DMC4's massive sales). And DmC was nothing if not over-the-top, but frankly I'd rather see Bayonetta 2 come out on other consoles before DMC5.

DMC4 has sold over 2.7 million copies, something that - sadly enough - will take DmC years to reach itself. DMC4 was received lukewarmly by fans only because of the lackluster character that is Nero, which was a character that had horrible storytelling associated with it - which isn't a far cry from how Ninja Theory handled DmC itself especially when it came to the characterization of Dante and Vergil.

As for Vergil, I wouldn't say he was much of an anti hero, either. My personal head canon gives him motivations that would make him lean towards anti-heroism, but going strictly from what DMC3 has told us, it's hard to confirm any motivation besides his desire for power. Capcom never goes beyond power. They never give any reasons as to why he wants power. Based on the very limited descriptions of him, he's squarely a villain.

That said, he's still a much, much better villain than DmC Vergil, for a couple of reasons. First, he's actually made to be a worth adversary for Dante right from the get go, giving him a feeling of power and of being an actual threat. DMC3 makes it very obvious that Vergil is, if not better than, at least equivalent , through copious amounts of cutscenes with him killing demons easily, and then of course having that threat realized when he defeats Dante in the first battle. Beating Vergil at the end of DMC3 feels like a genuine major accomplishment, and not just because that boss battle is one of the hardest in the game; DMC3's setting up of Vergil as a powerhouse who's beaten Dante at least once allows for an epic confrontation that DmC lacks.

DmC's Vergil fight, on the other hand, stumbles right out of the gate in a couple areas. Vergil suddenly goes from someone who, while was a bit of a jerk, was certainly established as a good guy, and then immediately makes him evil. There's barely any transition at all from his good self to his bad self. He isn't even willing to talk the idea over with Dante, instead insisting that Dante simply get out of his way (which stands in stark contrast to the great lengths he was willing to go in order to convince Dante to join the Order). The sudden change in character is jarring and incredibly rushed, and makes the player scratch their head instead of feeling like this is a believable conflict.

The second major area where DmC's fight falls flat is in establishing Vergil as any sort of threat. I mentioned before the lengths that DMC3 goes to in order to make the player believe just how powerful Vergil is. This game takes none of those lessons, though. In fact, I believe the only baddie that we actually watch Vergil kill during the entire game is Lilith, and that's done in a way that does nothing to make Vergil look powerful at all (he just shoots her twice with a sniper rifle).

Outside of that, Vergil essentially demonstrates no sense of power whatsoever. Dante ends up killing all of the bosses, Dante ends up beating Mundus while Vergil gets eaten or something, and Dante is the one who ends up saving Vergil during the silly slow down mission. The game establishes Vergil as a good tactician, but never gives the player a reason to fear him in a one on one battle at all. So when the game throws the player and Vergil into a one on one fight at the end, that sense of imposingness that DMC3 Vergil had is absent. The fact that this fight is incredibly easy doesn't help DmC Vergil's characterization as a wimp.

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#2  Edited By Darkly

@mrfluke said:

you guys can say how wrong i am, but whatever if ninja theory had just shut their mouth instead of badmouthing fans, that forecast and the sales would be better.

Is this about the wig thing? Please tell me there's more to this than "not in a million years".

I'm genuinely asking, because that's the only "insult" I've ever heard people reference, but people constantly reference being insulted.


Way, way, way more than that.

The vitriol that started was back during the initial 2010 TGS tease where instead of handling the backlash professionally NT went and attacked the fans, blamed them for poor sales on Enslaved, said the old Dante wasn't "cool" anymore and the those games were outdated, etc. etc..

Honestly its been explained and documented so many times before on a thousand different forums. There was a reason people wrote this game off out of sheer principle before it even shipped.


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#6  Edited By Darkly
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DmC's forecast has been lowered yet again.

The explanation for missing targets leans heavily on a failure to properly market their titles and a "decline in quality due to excessive outsourcing"

We are never going to see a sequel to DmC, folks

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2013/04/18/capcom-announces-special-loss-along-with-changes-in-development-practices.aspx

http://www.capcom.co.jp/ir/english/data/pdf/explanation/2012/full/explanation_2012_full_01.pdf

UPDATE:

"As a result of the figures below, Capcom has now confirmed that it has cancelled several overseas projects that it has deemed, “no longer compatible with the current business strategy”. We’ll update once we know which games have suffered the axe."

http://www.vg247.com/2013/04/18/capcom-year-end-profits-to-be-half-of-what-investors-expected/