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DevourerOfTime

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#1  Edited By DevourerOfTime
@shadow said:

I haven't played in a few months. Was Zenyatta nerfed recently? Especially on defense, he's been an incredibly effective dps choice when I played regularly

This list is more focused on competitive play and current meta, in which zenyatta is heals first, dps second. Same with the likes of ana.

But for supports, Zenyatta is still up there with Ana for best offensive output. Just know that's a secondary concern.

In quick play, whatever. Go attack mercy for all I care, as long as you communicate that and we have an actual healer.

As for him being nerfed, Discord was nerfed significantly, but that was more to do with team wide damage than personal damage. His orbs now do more damage actually, making him just slightly less of a threat against discorded enemies and more of a threat against multiple enemies in a cluster. His right click also got buffed, I believe...

@whatshisface said:

For a long time, I played Roadhog when I wasn't a healer but I started playing Phara a lot more in the last few weeks and since then, my aim with Roadhog's hook gone to shit. My avarage used to be 54.7% in competitive (not a good percentage I know), now I barely reach 30% in quick play. Did Phara broke me?

I find the best way to keep your aim with each character is not to focus too much on them, but don't let them fall on the wayside completely. If you only play pharah for example, you'll get really good at playing around her splash damage and travel time that it will unconsciously affect how you use other abilities, like hook or junkrat's bombs or s:76's missiles. It's all about finding the groove you need to be in for each character and being able to switch to it easily.

I liken it a lot to playing multiple characters in a fighting game. If you play one character a lot, your hands will start moving on their own to do combos, even when you're not playing that character. If you're playing multiple characters, you really have to work hard at being able to snap into a different headspace, where muscle memory adjusts to your character and doesn't just take over.

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@cav829 said:

@devoureroftime: So I didn't include Symmetra and Torbjorn because they kind of fall into a weird area right now in Meta discussions. Even though you always hear the other characters classified as DPS, Tank, or Healer/Support, there's actually a fourth category called "Builder." And much like in the TF 2 competitive scene, the builders in this game are kind of considered non-optimal picks for competitive. Like you said, you can actually get away playing the two for quite a while. Heck, I still play Torb a bunch in QP because it's fun and disorganized teams are still bad at dealing with him. I even won a game on Control with him last night which was hilarious. Also, Symmetra is about to get a full kit rework, so it's probably not worth discussing her too much until we see what they do with her.

The other problem with the two is how to slot them into a comp. Symmetra can't take the spot of a healer. Torb can't target his DPS, so I wouldn't really call him that. You could take him over a tank, but he'd land in the same nebulous DPS/Tank middle ground that Roadhog does. We'll see what happens with the two after the next patch. I plan on updating this guide after each major patch to reflect any changes.

I agree. Symmetra is being totally overhauled and both are weak picks who can be countered easily whose dps alone is both nothing to sneeze at in the right hands, but underwhelming versus the competition. With Blizzcon starting in less than an hour, both could see huge shifts in their style announced within the next few days. And with a two-tank two-support two-dps meta currently, you have a really hard time ever justifying their pick over a stronger character even within their niches.

I still think they have their uses, however small, and still should be put up in the discussion. Even if it's exactly what you're saying here. Basically: "hey, they have their uses, but they really, really do not fit in the meta right now."

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#3  Edited By DevourerOfTime

Great thread. Would like to see Symmetra and Roadhog on the list, as they are the most attack and defence heavy positions within their respective categories (Symmetra is way more of a defence character than a support), tho Symmetra is a lot more situational and weak as compared to Roadhog, who only has a handful of situations and comps where he is not ideal.

Also, no Torbjorn? Like Symmetra, he's really situational, but he's amazing on Volskaya, Temple of Anubis, and Gibraltar defence; first point defence on King's Row, Hanamura, Hollywood, and Eichenwalde; and last point defence on Route 66. Also a decent pick on first point defence, last point attack on payload on King's Row, and second point offence on Numbani (tho second point attack on Numbani is one of the easiest points in the game). Hell, I'd even consider him on Illios Ruins when you have the point, as there's a lot of nooks and crannies that can make it hard to kill, but effective at defending. Again, not a character I would play in all situations and has some hard counters, but a character I'm finding a lot of success with in mid-high Platinum rank (he's my highest win% character). I'd certainly consider him more useful in more situations than Bastion.

@dudeglove said:

So apparently Junkrat's riptire only makes noise if it's travelling along the ground, making it possible to stealth his tire in certain situations by running it up walls and jumping through the air.

Or just by standing still. You can literally just sit behind something (like on top of a doorway or behind a wall) without the team knowing its there.

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#4  Edited By DevourerOfTime

@hollitz said:

FPSes

An entire genre is lazy now I guess.

What is even this thread

Bad. And only getting worse.

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DevourerOfTime

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Dragon Quest 1

Bang your head against an area until you have put in the time to get the tools you need to get past your current obstacle, head to new area, rinse & repeat.

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Ok few things that people have called lazy, can be seen as good design:

30fps cut scenes: Higher frame rate video does take more hdd space. Also can take more memory, hdd access time and processing power, making load hiding harder. Cutscenes tend to aim to be cinematic and frame rate that is closer to what movies have is a valid choice for these because they don't require interaction.

No door animation: no game play interrupts. Also can save memory because model and texture for hand might not be necessary. Same with NPCs sleeping on the top of beds (plus performance hit if trying to add cloth physics). These things are probably what game makers have tried at some point but ended up with conclusion that it works better if they are just not there.

Most things in a game are the way they are because it works best for that game.

Reading this thread has made me realize just how few people have any experience actually working in a a creative environment with project goals and deadlines that are out of your control. It drives me crazy seeing people complain about these things and have no idea whatsoever what its like to actually work on a game or project like this. None of the complaints in here are because of developers being lazy. I don't work in games but I do work in a creative field that has unrealistic project goals and deadlines, just like games. I would love to be able to implement every single feature of a project and finish them on time and budget, but its just not possible. Bugs happen, feature creep happens, features don't work out how you expected and have to be scrapped, deadlines get moved around, other things pop up that pull you away from a project, etc, etc. Something as simple as showing a hand pushing open a door might seem very easy to you, but for the devs, its probably not worth the time because they have 20 other features they need to complete that are more important. So again, none of this is the result of laziness, its a result of the reality of working on a project with unrealistic goals, expectations, and deadlines. If a game did every single thing possible to implement every feature a player could possibly want, it would never get finished.

Not animating a hand opening a door in Bethesda games is not a result of laziness.

jesus christ.

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DevourerOfTime

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Crunch.

It's not heroic. It's not necessary. It's not even efficient or your best option when meeting a deadline. It's just poor management that hurts your staff due to your own failings.

And, yeah, I don't care if this thread was meant to be a thread hating on developers for small nitpicks or legit design choices so you can inaccurately and ignorantly call developers "lazy" despite people largely not knowing how game development works.

I'm going to say an ACTUAL lazy thing I hate about game development.

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My reaction to the video:

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Just need way more questions answered to be over the moon about it.

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Duder Feed asks me what my gut reaction to this announcement is:

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