EvilDingo

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Rock Band 2 vs Guitar Hero World Tour

While this subject may seem a little late to the party - please keep in mind that I am european, and thus RB2 have only just been released here a few weeks back. 
This also means that I'm playing RB2 with the GHWT-drums since that's the game I acquired back in december - Seriously, as if I was going to buy RB1 (which just had been released at that time) knowing that RB2 had already been released in the States.
Most of my comments on the games are probably going to be drum-related, since that's what I'm mostly rocking now that it's the new thing.
Also be aware that I have the PS3-version of both games.

Having played quite a lot of Guitar Hero World Tour up to this point, and been playing Rock Band 2 intensely in these last 2 weeks or so , I wanted to share my observations on how I think Rock Band 2 compares to Guitar Hero World Tour.

Having never played RB1 I differently noticed some sort of timing difference between the two games. I feel that RB2 requires somewhat more precision.
However having overcome that, overall RB2 comes across as the better *game* to me. Anyway, I better start listing my main observations..

THE GOOD

  • I love how the whole career-mode is i RB2. The whole idea about gathering fans to progress work very well and the fact that each character earn money individual works pretty well too.
  • You're able to start a new band with other people WITHOUT being completely cut off from unlocked songs. You don't have to unlock songs again.
  • I loooove the whole using drum-fills to activate star power ...ehm... I guess that's "overdrive". I'm unable to count all the times in GHWT where I've broken a 4x streak trying to activate star-power and it didn't register. Actually I generally love everything about the fills. They actually come in meaningful places unlike GHWT, where I usually don't even bother since I seldom are able to drum anything naturally.
  • I think the fact that hits during fills DON'T count any points works to the advantage of the general gameplay. By not activating the overdrive you can make it through hard parts, using the fills as breathers between the hard part. However it's at the expense of points which can't be earned during these sections. Also since the fill-sections itself don't count towards your score, you don't feel "pressured" to perform the fill if you can't do a meaningful one.
  • It's a great idea that the bass-player is able to rack in a 6x multiplier. It adds to the importance of the bass in the songs.
  • The way overdrive is activated on the singers track seem superior to GHWT, where it often seem to activate accidently. The rhythm-sections are also superior to GHWT's "make some noise"-sections... seriously, who can (or would) even do that without just being annoying. The fact that the rhythm-sections are voluntary to take into account people, who actually have the mike on a stand and are willing to play an instrument AND sing is kind of awesome... I actually did this in GHWT :-)
  • Rocking a GHWT-guitar in RB2 is awesome simply because it ignores the input from the finger-smudged solo-pad. I don't know if I'm missing out not having a RB-guitar with solo-buttons, but to me it's a big deal that the stupid solo-pad (which I didn't EVER use anyway) doesn't suddenly give false inputs.
  • ... on that note. The blue solo-sections are a good addition - you get aware on sections where your instrument has a solo and is in focus - and although I don't actually have a RB-guitar, I can easy deduct that these solo-sections work a whole lot better with the solo-buttons on the RB-guitar, than the way GHWT can suddenly out of the blue throw some slidey-notes at you.
  • Multiplayer actually works... and it works well. Of cause I can't be sure if this just because I have the PS3-version of the games, but I've NEVER successfully got any online game going in GHWT... not that there is much reason to anyway. The way RB2 makes it easy to join and invite people in a band, has actually made me aware that there IS actually people playing PS3 online... Now it would just be nice if people had headsets too... Not that I have one either though.
  • That songs are compatible between Rock Band games is reassuring... And apart from that novel idea, the song selection is larger than that of GHWT and also cheaper. Go figure...
  • Although I've yet to use it - the "no fail"-function is a great idea.

THE BAD

  • The inability to change difficulty after failing a song is kind of annoying. This is especially the case when playing a 6 song set, just to discover that song number 5 is out of your league at that particularly level. I don't know how many are willing to burn through their fans by trying multiple times on the same song to HOPEFULLY beat it eventually. This pretty much leave you with an annoying choice on a multiple song setlist: Either play on the level you can beat most songs and risk failing one of them - or play it safe and play on the level where you can beat all songs, but will be bored playing most of them... That sucks! - It's all well and good that you're able to "save and quit" during a setlist, but this annoyance pretty much keeps me from giving the "Endless Setlist 2" a go...well... ever.
  • I not sure, but it seems you can go from green to failed very suddenly in RB2. I've sometimes died with "overdrive" to spare. GHWT seems more forgiving in that regard.
  • However singing seems to be VERY forgiving. I don't think I've EVER 100%'ed a song in Singstar on expert for example, and this is something I've managed to do in RB2... I'm differently not THAT good a singer.
  • It's not a big deal, but it would have been nice if the bass had open notes like in GHWT.
  • The 5-note pattern of GHWT seems superior, and the fact that the drum-controller itself clearly defines visual difference between the drums and the hi-hats is great. It's not likely to ever be addressed, since I'm well aware that the price for song compatibility between games, is that you can't change the original format.
Which pretty much brings me to my main issue with the game...
  • The GHWT-drums' compatibility with RB2...

The yellow hi-hat mostly represent a hi-hat in the game, so in for the most part that pad is well enough placed for use with RB2. In fact the only song that comes to mind where the yellow pad seems to represent is "Jesus Christ Pose" by Soundgarden... which incidentally was the first song I bought - and thus I noticed this problem.
However the interpretation of the blue pad annoys me immensely - it sometimes represent a tom and sometimes it represent a hi-hat... and the most annoying thing is, that I see no reason why the orange hi-hat on the GHWT-drums (which is left unused) couldn't double as blue note in the game. 
This simple adjustment would seriously solve my entire issue with the compatibility.
The occasional usage of the green pad as a cymbal doesn't really bother me all that much, because apart from the green note at the end of fill-sections, I don't notice this all that much.

This is pretty much what I've noticed and felt like commenting on - didn't actually mean to write a complete essay about it, but it became a fair bit longer than I anticipated.
It's probably apparent enough, but I find that the good outweigh the bad and I'm generally enjoying the game a whole lot.

Feel free to comment and tell me your take on the two games' differences.
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EvilDingo

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Edited By EvilDingo
While this subject may seem a little late to the party - please keep in mind that I am european, and thus RB2 have only just been released here a few weeks back. 
This also means that I'm playing RB2 with the GHWT-drums since that's the game I acquired back in december - Seriously, as if I was going to buy RB1 (which just had been released at that time) knowing that RB2 had already been released in the States.
Most of my comments on the games are probably going to be drum-related, since that's what I'm mostly rocking now that it's the new thing.
Also be aware that I have the PS3-version of both games.

Having played quite a lot of Guitar Hero World Tour up to this point, and been playing Rock Band 2 intensely in these last 2 weeks or so , I wanted to share my observations on how I think Rock Band 2 compares to Guitar Hero World Tour.

Having never played RB1 I differently noticed some sort of timing difference between the two games. I feel that RB2 requires somewhat more precision.
However having overcome that, overall RB2 comes across as the better *game* to me. Anyway, I better start listing my main observations..

THE GOOD

  • I love how the whole career-mode is i RB2. The whole idea about gathering fans to progress work very well and the fact that each character earn money individual works pretty well too.
  • You're able to start a new band with other people WITHOUT being completely cut off from unlocked songs. You don't have to unlock songs again.
  • I loooove the whole using drum-fills to activate star power ...ehm... I guess that's "overdrive". I'm unable to count all the times in GHWT where I've broken a 4x streak trying to activate star-power and it didn't register. Actually I generally love everything about the fills. They actually come in meaningful places unlike GHWT, where I usually don't even bother since I seldom are able to drum anything naturally.
  • I think the fact that hits during fills DON'T count any points works to the advantage of the general gameplay. By not activating the overdrive you can make it through hard parts, using the fills as breathers between the hard part. However it's at the expense of points which can't be earned during these sections. Also since the fill-sections itself don't count towards your score, you don't feel "pressured" to perform the fill if you can't do a meaningful one.
  • It's a great idea that the bass-player is able to rack in a 6x multiplier. It adds to the importance of the bass in the songs.
  • The way overdrive is activated on the singers track seem superior to GHWT, where it often seem to activate accidently. The rhythm-sections are also superior to GHWT's "make some noise"-sections... seriously, who can (or would) even do that without just being annoying. The fact that the rhythm-sections are voluntary to take into account people, who actually have the mike on a stand and are willing to play an instrument AND sing is kind of awesome... I actually did this in GHWT :-)
  • Rocking a GHWT-guitar in RB2 is awesome simply because it ignores the input from the finger-smudged solo-pad. I don't know if I'm missing out not having a RB-guitar with solo-buttons, but to me it's a big deal that the stupid solo-pad (which I didn't EVER use anyway) doesn't suddenly give false inputs.
  • ... on that note. The blue solo-sections are a good addition - you get aware on sections where your instrument has a solo and is in focus - and although I don't actually have a RB-guitar, I can easy deduct that these solo-sections work a whole lot better with the solo-buttons on the RB-guitar, than the way GHWT can suddenly out of the blue throw some slidey-notes at you.
  • Multiplayer actually works... and it works well. Of cause I can't be sure if this just because I have the PS3-version of the games, but I've NEVER successfully got any online game going in GHWT... not that there is much reason to anyway. The way RB2 makes it easy to join and invite people in a band, has actually made me aware that there IS actually people playing PS3 online... Now it would just be nice if people had headsets too... Not that I have one either though.
  • That songs are compatible between Rock Band games is reassuring... And apart from that novel idea, the song selection is larger than that of GHWT and also cheaper. Go figure...
  • Although I've yet to use it - the "no fail"-function is a great idea.

THE BAD

  • The inability to change difficulty after failing a song is kind of annoying. This is especially the case when playing a 6 song set, just to discover that song number 5 is out of your league at that particularly level. I don't know how many are willing to burn through their fans by trying multiple times on the same song to HOPEFULLY beat it eventually. This pretty much leave you with an annoying choice on a multiple song setlist: Either play on the level you can beat most songs and risk failing one of them - or play it safe and play on the level where you can beat all songs, but will be bored playing most of them... That sucks! - It's all well and good that you're able to "save and quit" during a setlist, but this annoyance pretty much keeps me from giving the "Endless Setlist 2" a go...well... ever.
  • I not sure, but it seems you can go from green to failed very suddenly in RB2. I've sometimes died with "overdrive" to spare. GHWT seems more forgiving in that regard.
  • However singing seems to be VERY forgiving. I don't think I've EVER 100%'ed a song in Singstar on expert for example, and this is something I've managed to do in RB2... I'm differently not THAT good a singer.
  • It's not a big deal, but it would have been nice if the bass had open notes like in GHWT.
  • The 5-note pattern of GHWT seems superior, and the fact that the drum-controller itself clearly defines visual difference between the drums and the hi-hats is great. It's not likely to ever be addressed, since I'm well aware that the price for song compatibility between games, is that you can't change the original format.
Which pretty much brings me to my main issue with the game...
  • The GHWT-drums' compatibility with RB2...

The yellow hi-hat mostly represent a hi-hat in the game, so in for the most part that pad is well enough placed for use with RB2. In fact the only song that comes to mind where the yellow pad seems to represent is "Jesus Christ Pose" by Soundgarden... which incidentally was the first song I bought - and thus I noticed this problem.
However the interpretation of the blue pad annoys me immensely - it sometimes represent a tom and sometimes it represent a hi-hat... and the most annoying thing is, that I see no reason why the orange hi-hat on the GHWT-drums (which is left unused) couldn't double as blue note in the game. 
This simple adjustment would seriously solve my entire issue with the compatibility.
The occasional usage of the green pad as a cymbal doesn't really bother me all that much, because apart from the green note at the end of fill-sections, I don't notice this all that much.

This is pretty much what I've noticed and felt like commenting on - didn't actually mean to write a complete essay about it, but it became a fair bit longer than I anticipated.
It's probably apparent enough, but I find that the good outweigh the bad and I'm generally enjoying the game a whole lot.

Feel free to comment and tell me your take on the two games' differences.
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A Likely Story

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Edited By A Likely Story

I don't think the singing is forgiving at all. You don't necessarily have to be a good singer to sing well in Rock Band, you just have to be able to match pitches, regardless of how terrible your voice may sound. I think the difficulty is just right.

I also don't think that open bass notes are a good idea. Just by watching videos of GH: WT I thought that the bass track looked completely cluttered with the purple note bar, and it seems like the learning curve for that would be pretty high. I should have tried it out on the GH: Metallica demo, and thinking about it now I probably will redownload that just to see how these bass notes work out. I guess I'll find out later whether or not my judgement was correct.

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METALM1LITIA91

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Edited By METALM1LITIA91

I disagree... the open bass notes are great because it is realistic. When playing bass or guitar you don't always hold down a note and u play it open like that. I like RB better because it has the best soundtrack

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Timma1083

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Edited By Timma1083
Hobbies said:
I also don't think that open bass notes are a good idea. Just by watching videos of GH: WT I thought that the bass track looked completely cluttered with the purple note bar, and it seems like the learning curve for that would be pretty high. I should have tried it out on the GH: Metallica demo, and thinking about it now I probably will redownload that just to see how these bass notes work out. I guess I'll find out later whether or not my judgement was correct."
For me it goes down to how well they use it. Songs like Battery and BYOB they turned into a total clusterfuck of notes, but there are some songs where they use the open note well and it turns out to be fun.

Hammer-on Open notes are a different story. =|
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A Likely Story

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Edited By A Likely Story
METALM1LITIA91 said:
"I disagree... the open bass notes are great because it is realistic. When playing bass or guitar you don't always hold down a note and u play it open like that."
I know that, as I play bass myself, but for the sake of the game it might not be such a good idea.

And like Timma mentioned, I was aiming toward the more difficult/faster songs when I said the screen would get cluttered. I watched a video of bass on BYOB and couldn't tell what the hell was going on, and the 3 dimensional, dark purple bar doesn't really help solve anything. =\
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EvilDingo

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Edited By EvilDingo

Ok, Just want to mention that my issues listed about the vocal and bass are not really something I feel strongly about. 

Just felt it was something I noticed that was worth mentioning.

The fact that I feel singing is more forgiving is more just something I noticed that may actually be seen as an issue, and that was deduced out of a few key observations I made.
Let's take "Hungry Like The Wolf" by Duran Duran which was the song I 100%'ed on expert on the first try. I have this same song to Singstar and I I've differently not 100%'ed that song on the hardest level (or what is equal to 100% in Singstar)... or any other song for that fact. I don't even play at the hardest level in that game.
Thus I conclude that the game is more forgiving in the way it scores you - Although I guess you can't technically fail a song in Singstar.

I actually agree with Hobbies that the difficulty is probably where it's supposed to be, since anyone who've played with other know how hard the singing spot can be to fill. It's made to be inclusive which is a good thing.

I obviously like how GHWT does bass otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned it, but it's really not that big a deal to me. The *Bass-Groove"-sections in itself does a good job at making you feel like a bad-ass on bass.
This however, Like the issue with 6-note-drums vs 5-note-drums, brings attention to the fact that backwards-compatibility comes at a price.
The Rock Band franchise won't be able to change the core mechanics of the game. New iterations of the game will only be able to add additional songs, more bells and whistles and an improved "shell".
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Timma1083

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Edited By Timma1083
EvilDingo said:
The fact that I feel singing is more forgiving is more just something I noticed that may actually be seen as an issue, and that was deduced out of a few key observations I made.
Let's take "Hungry Like The Wolf" by Duran Duran which was the song I 100%'ed on expert on the first try. I have this same song to Singstar and I I've differently not 100%'ed that song on the hardest level (or what is equal to 100% in Singstar)... or any other song for that fact. I don't even play at the hardest level in that game.
Thus I conclude that the game is more forgiving in the way it scores you - Although I guess you can't technically fail a song in Singstar.
The problem is if you even try to sing in GH:WT, it's almost impossible to get any sort of streak going unless you are 110% accurate. GH's vocal system is literally so bad that the only song you can FC is No Sleep Till Brooklyn, which is all talkies. Even that is still harder then it should be. There is nothing to show you when a phrase ends or starts, your combo just randomly goes up or down when it feels like it. Hell, there really isn't anyway to get star power besides hoping you get it when you do good on a phrase.
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EvilDingo

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Edited By EvilDingo
Timma1083 said:
"EvilDingo said:
The fact that I feel singing is more forgiving is more just something I noticed that may actually be seen as an issue, and that was deduced out of a few key observations I made.
Let's take "Hungry Like The Wolf" by Duran Duran which was the song I 100%'ed on expert on the first try. I have this same song to Singstar and I I've differently not 100%'ed that song on the hardest level (or what is equal to 100% in Singstar)... or any other song for that fact. I don't even play at the hardest level in that game.
Thus I conclude that the game is more forgiving in the way it scores you - Although I guess you can't technically fail a song in Singstar.
The problem is if you even try to sing in GH:WT, it's almost impossible to get any sort of streak going unless you are 110% accurate. GH's vocal system is literally so bad that the only song you can FC is No Sleep Till Brooklyn, which is all talkies. Even that is still harder then it should be. There is nothing to show you when a phrase ends or starts, your combo just randomly goes up or down when it feels like it. Hell, there really isn't anyway to get star power besides hoping you get it when you do good on a phrase."
Yeah - good point.
I didn't actually mean that GHWT's singing were superior to RB2's, although I can see how anything "bad" I list about RB2 in a topic titled "RB2 vs GHWT" will come across as praise on GHWT's part. Was in fact just comparing it to Singstar.
That was actually pretty clumsy of me - I believe it was getting late when I wrote the blogpost and when I got around to listing the "bad" parts about RB2, it just more or less became a list of thoughts I've had about the game in general - and not specifically compared to GHWT.
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Edited By Keeng

I'm glad you actually played a lot of both games before writing this. Most people see the screen or play a song and decide that the games are about the same and that is certainly not true. I agree that RB2 is far superior in a number of different ways including all the ones you mentioned. I also agree with you on its problems. I'm very happy to see you mentioned the way the two games treat vocals because there's a major difference! I think singing in RB is more natural than it is in GHWT, but I haven't played Singstar yet so I can't compare. I also agreed with what was said about the issue Harmonix has run into by making the franchise backwards compatible. My guess is that they'll attempt to do something about it with Rock Band 3 next year. 


Feel free to add me on PSN. I don't know if we can play RB online together since I'm in the US, but I play it quite often.

Edit: My PSN name is the same as my GB name.
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Timma1083

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Edited By Timma1083
EvilDingo said:
"Timma1083 said:
"EvilDingo said:
The fact that I feel singing is more forgiving is more just something I noticed that may actually be seen as an issue, and that was deduced out of a few key observations I made.
Let's take "Hungry Like The Wolf" by Duran Duran which was the song I 100%'ed on expert on the first try. I have this same song to Singstar and I I've differently not 100%'ed that song on the hardest level (or what is equal to 100% in Singstar)... or any other song for that fact. I don't even play at the hardest level in that game.
Thus I conclude that the game is more forgiving in the way it scores you - Although I guess you can't technically fail a song in Singstar.
The problem is if you even try to sing in GH:WT, it's almost impossible to get any sort of streak going unless you are 110% accurate. GH's vocal system is literally so bad that the only song you can FC is No Sleep Till Brooklyn, which is all talkies. Even that is still harder then it should be. There is nothing to show you when a phrase ends or starts, your combo just randomly goes up or down when it feels like it. Hell, there really isn't anyway to get star power besides hoping you get it when you do good on a phrase."
Yeah - good point.
I didn't actually mean that GHWT's singing were superior to RB2's, although I can see how anything "bad" I list about RB2 in a topic titled "RB2 vs GHWT" will come across as praise on GHWT's part. Was in fact just comparing it to Singstar.
That was actually pretty clumsy of me - I believe it was getting late when I wrote the blogpost and when I got around to listing the "bad" parts about RB2, it just more or less became a list of thoughts I've had about the game in general - and not specifically compared to GHWT.
"
Yeah, I know you weren't necessarily saying GH:WT's vocal system if better than RB's, I was just throwing that out there. Though I can't really comment on the whole RB Singing vs. Singstar part, since I've never played a Singstar game in my life. Though I can imagine that RB's system if more forgiving than a game soley based around singing.
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EvilDingo

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Edited By EvilDingo
Keeng said:
"I also agreed with what was said about the issue Harmonix has run into by making the franchise backwards compatible. My guess is that they'll attempt to do something about it with Rock Band 3 next year. "
It's limited what they can do though :-(
It's not likely that they're able or willing to make changes to their current selection of 650+ songs they have online, for the sake of adding 6 note drums or whatever they might come up with.
I think the current Rock Band 2 is a bit weak in the stat-tracking department. I differently think the game could stand to improve in that regard.
However, since I live in europe I guess I'll have to wait 2 years or something :-)

Keeng said:
"Feel free to add me on PSN. I don't know if we can play RB online together since I'm in the US, but I play it quite often."
sure dude!
I'm up for some laggy cross-Atlantic rocking :-)
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Edited By Timma1083
EvilDingo said:
"Keeng said:
"I also agreed with what was said about the issue Harmonix has run into by making the franchise backwards compatible. My guess is that they'll attempt to do something about it with Rock Band 3 next year. "
It's limited what they can do though :-(
It's not likely that they're able or willing to make changes to their current selection of 650+ songs they have online, for the sake of adding 6 note drums or whatever they might come up with.
I think the current Rock Band 2 is a bit weak in the stat-tracking department. I differently think the game could stand to improve in that regard.
However, since I live in europe I guess I'll have to wait 2 years or something :-)

Keeng said:
"Feel free to add me on PSN. I don't know if we can play RB online together since I'm in the US, but I play it quite often."
sure dude!
I'm up for some laggy cross-Atlantic rocking :-)
"
There is a rumor flying around that an update will be released to have stars displayed in quickplay, maybe this will come with section stats too? Who knows :)
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A Likely Story

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Edited By A Likely Story
Timma1083 said:
There is a rumor flying around that an update will be released to have stars displayed in quickplay, maybe this will come with section stats too? Who knows :)"
Oh how I'd love to have some sort of in game statistics page for each song. Stars are a must, but I hope they add in some more stats as well, if the rumor is even true at all.
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Edited By Keeng

There would have to be literally tons of stats though. I play enough RPGs as it is! My screen won't know what to do with all the numbers.

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True, but what I had in mind was maybe while in the song selection screen (regardless of what mode you're on) you could click a button to bring up a little pop up menu that would tell you some more in depth stats, and just adding in the stars alongside the scores on the list.

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Edited By EvilDingo
Hobbies said:
True, but what I had in mind was maybe while in the song selection screen (regardless of what mode you're ... [more]
Yeah - But I was also thinking it could be cool with some profile-stats too... Like favored instrument, best instrument, most played songs and stuff like that.

It was something I thought about while waiting for additional people to join in online world tour. While your waiting you might as well be able to look at the other peoples stats to get an idea of what songs they favor, what difficulty they prefer and such.

As it is now - you're only able to see very few stats about the hosting band... and since that's the person who will be picking songs anyway, that's somewhat less useful than him actually being able to take into account what the other players might actually prefer.
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Edited By xAbleAssassinx
@EvilDingo:  Dude, you are soooo sooo right. I wrote a similar thing, but i was pissed of at the time cos i had just had an argument with a frend about the exact same thing, so it sounds very fan boyish and is more of a stupid rant rather than a thought out argument. Your right rb2 is a better game, they both have there pros and cons but rb2 comes out on top. Plus the fact that i hate the drums in WT doesnt help, the fills are messy and badly done, and the kits are unresponsive. Altho it is kool that there are hi hats. 

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gourminus

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Edited By gourminus

GHWT is better for the shear fact that: it is actually challenging.

See, i have nothing against RB, i might buy it someday, but I just think it's too easy for the most part. it's good for n00bs though.

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A Likely Story

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Edited By A Likely Story

I don't think Rock Band is any easier/harder than GH:WT, and if you think it's too easy then you need to look at some of the higher tiered songs, on disc and downloadble. GH has a MUCH more forgiving timing window as well, so the only things that would make it more difficult would be innaccurate, overdone charting or the addition of an open bass note (or just the fact that the purple bar is much harder to see and follow than Rock Band's orange bar).