@technician: They're supposed to come out on the 16th, same day as SFV.

I made the pad to stick transition, and for the most part so far have been able to succeed better with it, but it's impossible to do "exactly what they want" as execution on stick isn't perfect and even at top levels people drop combos or get a different move than what they wanted all the time. For me I would say it took me about 2 years of playing casually on and off, mostly in SF4 but also some in 3S and other games to at least surpass where I was on pad (actually there were like 3 years on a super terrible stick I tried that didn't turn out well at all).

That said, I wasn't that great on pad to begin with. When I originally got my first stick (a pretty bad stick), that provided the impetus for me to say "okay let's be able to do a DP on reaction." It wasn't an easy transition, for me repetitive motions like dashes, super jumps and double QCF's were terrible (and those are still my weakness). I went back to pad a couple times before I invested in a better stick. Meanwhile, my friend continued mostly on pad and absolutely had better execution than I did every step of the way for the most part, and could do everything faster.

Speed is why I hesitate really to recommend stick to people who have played on pad. Everything feels slow as molasses on stick while you get used to it, and it's frustrating that you can't execute things on stick that you could on pad. Furthermore, I think overall in the long run you don't actually gain a massive benefit from using stick. At the start you gain more accuracy but sacrifice speed. In the end... you're still probably a tad slower on stick than on pad, due to simple physics. Your hand on a joystick simply can't move quite as fast as a thumb on a d-pad. While I also struggled with execution on pad before, my friend was able to break through that barrier and has pretty great execution now.

Additionally, I would especially hesitate to recommend stick over pad if you're going to mainly play Tekken. For 3D fighters, I think it's way harder to do a korean backdash on stick, as hitting that corner twice quickly is just harder and slower on stick. You can minimise this effect over time with practice, but I think it's telling that 1) tons of highly competitive US tekken guys play on pad, and 2) out of those that play on stick, many prefer an octogate to a traditional square gate. On the other hand, Japanese pros manage to play every game on a standard square gate. You'll definitely find it more intuitive right off the bat in a 3D fighter on stick, but I think in the long run it might make it harder. Also, with 2D fighters such as SF stick feels harder right off the bat. You'll execute a DP perfectly except it'll be super slowly. If you have something like a KOF short hop it'll be real tough to do for a while. Still, stuff like pianoing inputs or hitting multiple buttons at the same time is easier right off the bat.

Something like the aforementioned Hitbox in the long run probably offers the best of both worlds, as radical a thing as it is, but in my case I'm probably not going to get one because 1) I tend to pass the sticks around when playing casually with my friends and we all play on stick, and 2) I like old games a lot such as ST and 3S, and in tournaments they tend to be played on arcade cab where you have to use stick or else.

Also take what I say with a grain of salt; I'm no expert and my patterns of play with fighting games is play them hardcore for 3 months, take 6 months off, then jump back in, and overall I've barely scratched the surface after trying to become not terrible at fighting games for 6 years.

Edit: 3S Coop Cup 14 is live! http://www.twitch.tv/gamenewton

@starvinggamer: Thanks for the response. You make an interesting point about SFV; I think maybe the stick would be unnecessary for me, but I've always been curious about using one for modern fighters, especially 2d ones. I may still get one but as more of an indulgence so to speak; it could be cool to try out and mess around with even if ultimately a pad would be better for me. I think it's interesting that you mentioned that you are better with multiple button inputs using the stick, I feel like that is the aspect of using a stick I'm more worried about. It's been a long time since I've been in an arcade but I remember struggling with two button inputs, especially if I had to hit them right after a directional input. I am left handed though so I wonder if that is a factor.

@belegorm: Saying "exactly what you want" was the wrong choice of words; what I mean to say is getting to a point where you aren't struggling to use the stick and have a high comfort level. Even using a pad I can't do exactly what I want. In terms of Tekken it does seem easier to use pad at the outset just because I think it is a faster-paced game than games like Street Fighter IV and V which have more deliberate movement (not to mention far shorter movelists for characters). I think for Tekken I should probably stick to pad at least initially.

One thing I didn't even consider until just now is using the PS4 pad with the PS3. The PS4 pad is so much better than the ps3 pad in my opinion; the d-pad is bigger, the joysticks are greatly improved and the controller itself feels much sturdier. For me my struggle with using the ps3 d-pad to move is I felt like my thumb was a tad too big and too stiff to do some movements that required finesse (like the b, b, d/b, b movement for the korean backdash where you had to just barely hit the down button and go right back to the back button). I know you could also do the qcb, b movement for characters without a back sway but that seemed harder for me to do quickly. And I thought the joysticks on the ps3 pad were very tough to be precise with and felt flimsy, but maybe movement with the ps4 sticks could be viable. I'll definitely start messing around in TTT2 with the ps4 pad and seeing if I'm more comfortable using it.

There is a strong chance that we won't see T7 out on console this year, so if I got a stick and started practicing with TTT2 now, who knows what could happen by the time the game actually comes out. But considering the feedback and my own personal preferences I probably won't rush to get a stick with the intention of playing Tekken with it. Although as I mentioned it could be interesting to test out with Street Fighter V. I haven't really considered the Hitbox at all so I'll look into that as well, that could be an interesting middle ground.

@technician: Try playing it dragon style!

@technician: Don't forget the PS4 and PS3 pads aren't the only kind of pads out there. My friend has had a lot of success with a sega saturn style pad, think of a genesis controller's d-pad. Korean backdashes would be cake on that thing. Also madcatz's new pad coming out soon will be that kind of thing.

Depending on what you mean to do with it and what you want to play it on I do also recommend considering the hitbox. I would totally probably go down that rabbit hole if I wasn't also trying to play old games as well.

@starvinggamer: @technician: Saying Tekken players generally prefer pads is a bit disingenuous when the best Tekken players are in South Korea and Japan and they all play on stick. Even if that's mostly related to playing in arcades.

In the main fighting games today the control method is largely based on personal preference, as evidenced by players winning tournaments with a large variety of input methods. Arcade sticks, controllers of all sorts, hitboxes, etc.

One exception being if you still have a strong arcade culture where you live, in that case you should play stick.

@starvinggamer: @hassun: @technician: I'm too lazy to read all of these posts but any 4 button game is at least somewhat easier on pad then a 5-6 button game; hence why Tekken players in the US are pad players and Mortal Kombat players are pad players. As for KoF I think the general level of execution is extraordinarily high and restrictive regardless of whether you're on pad or stick; so it probably doesn't matter.

@fredchuckdave: Sure but that doesn't really make it easier on pad than on stick, it just makes it easier on pad than some 6-buttong games.

Tekken 7 cabinets just use the regular Vewlix 6-button design with 2 buttons removed.

@hassun: Keep in mind that arcade is KING with a capital K in Japan and Korea, there is simply no realistic alternative to playing stick there; hence I would value the more console-centric NA and EU playerbase.

@belegorm: I did write that in the post didn't I? That's no reason to value another scene more when it comes to input methods though. Europe barely has any arcades and has no arcade culture and arcade culture is on its last legs in the US as well. Valuing that more is just doing the same thing as only valuing the Japanese/South Korean scene but in the other direction.

-

On a side note I still haven't heard many responses to my earlier question from you guys and gals.

@belegorm: Which pad does your friend use? It seems like a lot of people really like the Hori Fighting Commander, is that it?

Also I checked out the madcatz Fightpad and that does seem interesting. I saw a video on YouTube of Markman playing TTT2 with the pad and it seemed like he could use it no problem. The d-pad itself seems to be slightly elevated and looked like it was moving around very quickly. I'm very curious about just how loose that thing is; maybe hitting the corners would be easier but going back to neutral could be less intuitive.

So many options... at least that Hori pad seems to be going for less than 30 bucks on Amazon right now. Could be worth trying out, if it doesn't work, it wouldn't be a huge loss.

@technician: When my friend was still concentrating on pad, he used a sega saturn controller with a converter to make it work on ps3. However he just got a PS4 hitbox so he'll be going to that for SFV

Edit: I recommend people tuning in tonight to the Cooperation Cup again, just saw one of the US teams win a match pretty convincingly. http://www.twitch.tv/gamenewton

@l1ghtn1n: I've found 3SO on PS3 super, super dead. Much better experience playing on fightcade actually, less lag.

Also I also have started playing Ryu in this game, after being a bit TOO focused on Chun's low forward xx super, decided I'd be better served throwing lots of ex fireballs.

@l1ghtn1n: For me my local offline scene is all about 3S and I have a better chance of getting games vs the 3S crowd so that's been why I've been attempting to break into 3S for a few months now.

Since these threads are used to talk about all sorts of fighting game stuff anyways, we're designating this one the official fighting game thread to help the clutter and confusion of multiple threads popping up with every new tournament.

@sparky_buzzsaw:

So this is becoming a general thread? I suppose @flstyle can start mimicking similar threads by just updating the top post. I forget, was there a thread type which always puts the top post at the top of the screen no matter which page you are on? That might actually be beneficiary to this type of thread. I also don't suppose there is a way to let more than 1 person update the first post? Let's think this through before we commit to something.

@hassun: There's no way to have multiple people update first posts. Also, it's been discussed by the moderators. If, FLStyle, you and the other people involved here want to turn this into a general post instead of a blog, we can lock this one and you folks can start a new post. Otherwise, this is what we've settled on for a solution. There's no point to one of these being created every time. it gets confusing and it's hard to track pertinent fighting game information.

@sparky_buzzsaw: Oh that's no problem. I just want to make sure we do it in the best way possible. If we can experiment to see what works best and possibly lock away the failures that's ideal. I'll discuss it with FLstyle.

@starvinggamer: Oh man I've just gone down the rabbit hole and ordered a hitbox. Looking forward mostly to more consistent double QCF's and DP's. Little apprehensive though about what I'm going to do as while I'm looking forward to SFV, all the FGC guys I play with are pretty much exclusively 3S guys, which we play on 360. Maybe I'll look into a converter.

@belegorm: If nothing else it makes for a great Amplitude controller

@starvinggamer: oh man I'm going to play crypt of the necrodancer on that thing :P

Dat stealth MOD edit.

Cool we have official thread now.

Welcome to the club. A Hitbox is arguably broken when playing SF4 due to the input shortcuts in that game's code, not sure about 3S though. When I bought my Hitbox a couple years ago, they sold a model with a dual modded PCB for PS3 and 360.

@hippie_genocide: I got the PS4 one, don't think they're going to make one for PS4 and 360

@hippie_genocide: Calling it 'broken' might be pushing it a bit. Maybe we'll get to that when Hitbox users are actually winning tournaments. :V

I've always been interested in new/interesting/alternative input methods though. Nearly got a Hitbox a few years ago but the price for those things is just a bit too insane. It would cost me around $300 to get an official one.

@belegorm ah, I see. I didn't realize they were making them for PS4.

@hassun Let me put it a different way - SF4 already had easy inputs, a Hitbox makes a lot of them far easier. Most people have years, if not decades of muscle memory built up using a stick. So, it's hard to want to start from scratch on a new control scheme. That's the only reason I could see tournament pros not using one.

@hippie_genocide: I know how the inputs work. I'm saying the proof is in the pudding. Hitbox/button only controllers have existed for quite a few years as well. Calling something broken is a pretty big claim.

This thread needs a cumbersome title with sponsors, EG MCZ FGC FGT

Ugh probably won't be going to Evo this year because my wife has a wedding to go to that doesn't quite line up and we can't really afford to take two cross-country vacations so I'm pretty bummed but on the bright side I'll get to bum around with you guys in chat which is always a ton of fun.

In other news, I got another 15 minutes in with the Hitbox and doing stupid fucking things like cancelling Sonic Boom into Double Flash is surprisingly easy and also fucking pointless to learn because SFV. Input shortcuts make DPs so fucking dumb though. They're basically a 3-button plink execution-wise, or one more input than a crouching-normal AA.

@starvinggamer: Huzzah for no peer pressure to burn ~$1000

On that note EVO Top 8 SFV predictions?

@starvinggamer:I'm sure someone else will continue the creeper tradition for EVO.

@fredchuckdave: I'd say same as top8 from SF4.

@fredchuckdave: How about a total stab in the dark!? Graham Wolfe, Snake Eyez, Daigo, Infiltration, Xian, Valmaster, Humanbomb, Momochi

And if you're in an offensive crouch postion, they're even easier than that. Just lift the finger off forward and put it back down again, registers as 323 shortcut - instant DP.

I'm not sure if he is going to even play SFV, but if he did, I could see Damdai doing quite well with it. Basically, any old school SF player with a strong footsy game has the potential to be really good at SFV.

Guessing Luffy

@starvinggamer: After that Daily Dot interview that was definitely my guess.

The Red Bull Fighting Team aka "RB | None of us can beat Daigo at SFIV".

@hassun: I should probably start watching Daily Dot? People keep talking about it.

@starvinggamer: It's not essential but from time to time there is an interesting guest or topic and you could certainly do worse. FGC/Best of III

That sounds like a terrible idea.

Is there any website where a duder can learn the basics of fighting games?

Any sort of guides you fine folk would reccomend to a beginner wanting to take his very first steps in fighting games?

Thanks.

This is the ultimate beginner's guide:

http://shoryuken.com/2014/07/07/learn-how-to-play-fighting-games-with-our-free-beginners-guide-ebook/

Incredibly thorough and though it uses street fighter for the examples they apply to pretty much every single 2d fighter out there. Link to the book is right at the bottom of the article.

@shoebradmaker: If your more of a visual type of person, this guy taught me how to play just by watching his Oni guidebook and I find that these 2 tutorials are actually well thought out and explained step by step. Rather than just throwing a bunch of fighting game jargon at the top with a phat DnB beat in the background. They're the super basics and there's still a lot to learn but it peels things back a bit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiWHE0iGG74

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wf35PwXonb0

Learning SF gets you into FG's in general as well.

The long-awaited FGC documentary is out: http://www.fgcfilm.com/

@viciousbearmauling: I can't help but like the little insults the characters fling at each other in MKX.

(That 1:30 though.)

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.

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Edit: I just watched the kombat pack 2 trailer and at the end it says

"COMING SOON"

"PS4 / XBOX ONE"

... Aren't we missing something?

@starvinggamer: Not Luffy after all:

Triborg looks great. Surprise, NRS's robotic animators are great at animating robots. Bo' Rai Cho looks real fucking bad though.

Also venue and games for Evo being announced on the 26th. I might have renegotiated my way into going but we'll see. I really my first fighting game tournament as a competitor to be the first Evo for SFV.

Time to watch some of the FGC doc now.

I still haven't heard much from you fine guys and gals about what you want as the next GB FGC chat experience.

And while I'm on the subject, I have some ideas on what to do with the FGC general thread and I wouldn't mind some input.

1. We could relaunch it as a poll thread which would automatically put the first post at the top of each page, allowing for easier viewing of whatever is going on. This first post would then be continuously updated to suit the needs of the community. The downside of this is that only 1 person can edit that post.
2. We could make a regular thread with the first few posts reserved (most likely by FLStyle and myself) which can then be continuously updated. The downside of this is that you have to go to page 1 to get the latest updates.
3. We could just keep the current thread forever. This takes the least amount of immediate effort but also has the downside of both option 1 and option 2.
4. [Your idea here.]