Hungry

Hey guys, I have played maybe 3 hours of the new XCOM today and in the past two weeks I booted up DOS-BOX to replay the original to have it fresh in my mind and I feel like there are some big problems with this game. However, I do want to say that for the most part I enjoy the game a lot except for this one thing.

The cover system is the sole reason why I flip-flop on my affection for this game about every 20 seconds. If a solid wall and a phone booth are both considered full cover, how come I can still be hit through the cover? I feel like that if you are even remotely unlucky that any sense of strategy is thrown out the window because of this simple system. Your entire squad lies in wait behind full cover, and then when the aliens act two of your men get the business from incoming plasma because the aliens happen to get lucky. Even though the system is way less fleshed out and less obvious to the player, I feel like the cover system in the old X-COM is much more sensible and actually adds a sense of strategy to the game. This guy is behind this solid wall, until it gets destroyed or the aliens shoot mind bullets at you there is no way you are going to get killed. I understand that these principles of luck apply to the aliens too, but I don't really like having random chance so largely impacting the game in either sides' favor.

The old X-COM had a lot of random chance in it too (missing 3 quick shots with a Heavy Plasma on the incoming Chryssalid... ugh) but your decisions could mostly combat that problem and you could escape a lot of missions with soldiers unharmed until later in the game. You could very easily have cyberdiscs firing on your troops the second they set foot out of the Skyranger in the original, but it was at least manageable and I didn't feel like it was because of the RNG, but because of the enemy positioning or my lack of caution on my part. If I am Hunkered Down and in Full Cover and I still get blasted in the new XCOM what was I supposed to do?

So am I missing something or is this just something I am going to have to live with if I want to keep playing this game? It could be the equipment progression too I guess. In the original X-COM you could rush Plasma weaponry in like the first month or two and pretty much be on equal footing in combat, and the fact that you could purchase unmanned vehicles as scouts at the beginning as well. Any advice or confirmation that this is just something I am not going to like would help a lot, and thanks in advance.

PS: I also want to say that besides that problem, I really think the game is enjoyable. The atmosphere of the game is pretty good and how I would imagine a modern XCOM to be, and I think mechanically it is enough to be considered an XCOM game but is also far enough away to be considered a good game as a stand alone title. Of course except for the infuriating cover system :p. Also, I was kind of mad when I pretty much failed a mission because they changed the way Chryssalids looked, but it isn't like that didn't happen when they were first encountered in the original X-COM so I am kind of okay with that.

@ThunderSlash:

I think you should be fine. The same thing happened to me but the event to start the DLC still triggered when I came back with the requisite item.

@CL60 said:

Americans always complaining about gas prices when they're FAR more expensive everywhere else.

The problem is a lot of other countries are smaller than the US and have good public transportation. I live in the middle of buttfuck nowhere in North Carolina and it takes upwards of 30-40 minutes by car to get anywhere. I pass a handful of farms before I even reach a gas station, much less a grocery store or somewhere else important.

@sawtooth said:

Brütal Legend

Absolutely. It is basically just an easier, console version of Sacrifice with open world elements. There were problems with Brutal Legend, but other than the difficulty I don't think the actual gameplay mechanics was one of them.

Yeah it is just something you are going to have to live with if you decide to not queue as 5 all of the time. Which I highly suggest by the way, not only do you win more games but you get to dick off with your bros. The best thing you can do is try and find the humor in how bad they are. The key point is to not rage about it because that will just make you feel super shitty.

@FluxWaveZ:

Oh really? I haven't had any hands on P4A or really seen anything about P4G so I didn't know how deep they go into Persona 3 stuff, especially the stuff concerning MC.

@FlarePhoenix:

I heard originally in Persona 3 you were supposed to be able to choose gender anyway, but it got cut due to budget restrictions or something. So I would say that really they are both canonical. I prefer my Persona games one-off with cameos as opposed to being direct sequels anyway, so something silly like both being canon is cool with me.

@FlarePhoenix:

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree because I don't think either of us are going to concede any points. Not to mention that I have steered the conversation way off topic when we're supposed to be talking about which version OP should play first.

EDIT: Not that I mean to completely sever the conversation. If you want to take it to PMs or another thread I am down with that, I just don't want to bloat this thread with something irrelevant to the OP.

@FlarePhoenix said:

I still disagree. I don't see been able to control only your character and how you change equipment as themes of the game; they are mechanics (yes, I know mechanics can be used to portray a game's theme, but I don't think that's the case here).

If we start going into the realism of turn based combat the entire system breaks down (you know, the whole "I'm just going to stand perfectly still while four people wail on me"). Also, I'm sorry, but if you're concerned about the AI's feelings because you didn't agree with their suggestion, I think you're taking the game a little too seriously.

Wait what? How would that not be a way to represent the theme of the game? Why would they have put all of those limitations into the game then? Obviously equipping your party anywhere from a menu is something RPGs have always done, so it isn't a technical limitation. So why would they make you go out of your way to do something so simple? I am genuinely baffled and would like to hear why you think the developers decided to implement it that way instead of how they did in P3P. I hope I am not coming off as offensive or anything, I am just curious as to how you see it.

As for the realism of turn-based combat, the standing around and getting wailed on is just how the battle is being represented to the player, just the same way that taking turns is just a way to give information and time to the player. I am also not really concerned with the AI's feelings, because I always equipped them with what I wanted. What I meant by telling you they would keep the item you gave them again is that it is kind of like saying "No Junpei you are retarded. You are going to keep this shirt on and you will like it." Which is kind of like the kicking them back into line like you suggested, just that it actually happens instead of them doing only what they are told and never anything else.

@FlarePhoenix said:

See, I have to disagree with this: I've played Persona 3 Portable, and I never felt like I wasn't playing as my character. I mean, you are the leader of the group so it makes sense you would be equipping the others with what you think is best, and telling them what to do in combat. Honestly, if someone just did what they wanted while I'm in charge I would probably just kick them until they fell back in line.

Oh do not get me wrong, it doesn't completely lose that theme by not having those gameplay elements, it just doesn't hit as hard that you are playing as your character and your character only. Even what you are saying about equipping people with gear, the fact that you can do it all in a menu in your bedroom or in front of the movie theater instead of having to talk to them directly diminishes the theme a little. If it makes you feel any better, I think if you talked to a party member and they said "Hey I'd rather wear this thing with 2 more evasion but doesn't give me Evade Wind (High)", and you immediately re-equipped them with the old item, I think it somehow diminishes their AI's desire to equip a new item. Also, if we were to try and assume that combat is only represented to the players as turn-based and not in real-time, it is pretty unrealistic to assume that, while MC is doing all the crazy persona-swapping antics he can do, would be telling everyone exactly what to do down to the letter. Again, it doesn't ruin the theme of the game entirely, but it does weaken it.

I also want to note that most of the time I would recommend P3P as the best version of the game, but not on someones' first playthrough is all.