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ninjalegend

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It scratches that exploration itch in a way like Alex has wrote. Discovering things that feel like no one else has or will. I enjoyed the review. I also hope more games will try to shoot for the stars even if they miss. I love my GTAs, but am happy to see something take random generation and use it for more than level generation variety. There is a labor of love feel that shines through. I did expect better execution with combat and NPC interaction. For a first try at something so ambitious from such a small team, well, I like it. Blemishes and all.

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Edited By ninjalegend • 

@ir0n:

@ir0n said:

@ninjalegend: The difference being the phone manufacturers have an interest in a shorter life cycle as they make profit out of every single phone they sell.

Over a 6 years span both revenue and more importantly profit would be 50% higher if they can make you replace your phone at a 2 years frequency in comparison to changing it every 3 years.

The same would be true for consoles but only when we talk turnover - assuming they sell the hardware at cost.

I can only see them believing that VR to take off big time the years to come and an amped up PS to be necessary in order to stay competitive to Vive and Rift.

1-2 years from now when the novelty of the initial VR proof of concept like games wears off the PS4 will probably be not able to support meatier experiences and loose steam (pun intended) in contrast to the alternative solutions.

From what I was to understand about the previous consoles, they started off selling at a loss. By the end of the console cycle, they usually sell at a profit. I do think it is business that is prompting this. I have a theory as to why.

The console makers went X86 architecture to make 3rd party development easier. This saved money for developers as they only need one build of a game and a few tweaks instead of the proprietary hardware of console past. This allows for simultaneous release of a game on XB1, PS4 and PC. As Duxa points out below, you can build a better system for the same price as the consoles.

This has led to a bit of a problem with multi platform games. Multi platform games are the bread and butter for the consoles. Recent games like the Witcher 3 and Fallout 4 are barely playable on consoles. So much so that Jeff had to do a separate review score for Fallout 4 console versions. I usually buy the PC version now due to the experience with these games. I am sure I am not alone.

That is one part of it. If they want to stay competitive and be the best place to play these games, they need this move. One other thing I noticed while looking at minimum system requirements of the for mentioned games on Steam is that consoles would barely meet minimum requirements for these games. How much longer until developers have to release a PC version and a separate console version? The PC market is huge now and not just a fringe market. How many games have the PC as the prime console and port games to the systems?

Later in a console life cycle they usually do a redesign like the slim versions of the PS3 and 360. These redesigns usually make the consoles cheaper to make making them profitable. This seems like a perfect time to address this issue.

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@duxa: I buy my games straight from Steam so the paying full price for games is on me. I concede that point due to my buying only games on Steam if they are not available on GOG.

My point on saying anyone who claims they can build a similar gaming PC for under $400 in 2013 stands. Some parts will have to suffer. I used the CPU as an example. I could have went cheap with the graphics card and let the smoke out of the system that way. Getting an i5-4570 for $180 in 2013 sounded to good to be true. So I checked an old archived toms hardware page that raved about a sale on new egg for an i5-3570 at 3.4ghz for $215. Barely meets minimum Witcher 3 specs. Even though I find the PS4 CPU lacking at dual 4 core 1.6ghz, that stomps that chip into the ground.

@duxa said:

As for the CPU, the i5-2500k (6200 score) launched for $200 in 2011. In 2013 you could have gotten a much more powerful i5-4570 (7000 score) for $180. I dont know what you are talking about with the Core Duo, thats crazy! Plus on a budget build you would never use a "K" CPU. In reality on a budget build you would probably have previous years (2012's) i5-3470 (score 6500) for about $100 (since newer CPUs would be out). Core 2 Duo wouldnt even be 1/5th of the power of these CPUS... so again not sure what you are talking about there.

Budget build typically looks like this. This is a budget PC from a few months ago, it will blow away either of the consoles. In fact this will run Witcher 3 and most other games for a few years to come on High no problem. Personally I would save a few more $$ and build a PC for around $700, but if you must build budget for $400, you can.

EDIT - I should note below links are as I said from a build a few months ago (November), so prices are probably different now. The idea is that you look for deals whenever you are building a PC and this is just an example.

TypeItemPrice
CPUAMD Athlon X4 860K 3.7GHz Quad-Core Processor$69.99 @ Newegg
MotherboardASRock FM2A88M PRO3+ Micro ATX FM2+ Motherboard$52.38 @ Newegg
MemoryG.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-2133 Memory$40.99 @ Newegg
StorageSeagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive$45.89 @ OutletPC
Video CardEVGA GeForce GTX 960 2GB SuperSC ACX 2.0+ Video Card$174.99 @ NCIX US
CaseFractal Design Core 1000 USB 3.0 MicroATX Mid Tower Case$32.99 @ Micro Center
Power SupplyCorsair Builder 430W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply$19.99 @ Newegg
Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
Total (before mail-in rebates)$487.22
Mail-in rebates-$50.00
Total$437.22

Moore's law makes building one today that can compete and surpass at or under $400 possible. It is also the reason this PS4.5 is necessary. One thing you left out of this build is the OS. I assume your average user would like Windows. At under $50, I doubt that Seagate has windows pre installed. Now let's look at the Witcher 3 minimum system requirements and 2013 prices.

Minimum System Requirements

  • Intel CPU Core i5-2500K 3.3GHz
  • AMD CPU Phenom II X4 940
  • Nvidia GPU GeForce GTX 660
  • AMD GPU Radeon HD 7870
  • RAM 6GB
  • OS 64-bit Windows 7 or 64-bit Windows 8 (8.1)
  • DirectX 11
  • HDD Space 40 GB

If I remember correctly, a GTX 660 went for around $230. Arguments sake, you find it on sale for $190. Cool, $210 to go! 8 gig was around $70. What a shopper you are! Got it for $50. $160 to go! Now you need a case, power supply, CPU, motherboard, hard drive and an OS. Not possible without a thief or wizard in your party.

I agree with your $700 assessment. You can build something you will love for years to come.

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Edited By ninjalegend • 

@duxa:

Ok, covering counterpoints one by one.

1. I spent around $60 to get Witcher 3 on day one on steam, $60 for Xcom 2, and as for the cheaper ones, I covered that. "I could game way cheaper buying a last gen console or sticking to old games on steam sales. I choose to play current games understanding there is a price to go along with that." I love steam sales and GOG. Unfortunately, there is a trend with price parody on big games on console and PC. Boo.

2. If you spent less than $400 on a pc in 2013, you have a higher end core 2 duo at best. These are the minimum requirements for Witcher 3

Intel CPU Core i5-2500K 3.3GHz / AMD CPU Phenom II X4 940

I can stop there as it will smoke and explode. That is not speaking of the cheap motherboard or ram that may have been used. I am not a console Kid and have been gaming on PC since HP made PCs. Yuck, HP. I bought one for school and hated it. It did play Doom, though.

3.My whole point is this seems to be a new business model where consoles are becoming more iterative like the phones or the 3DS. This seems like their hands are forced because the alternative is to put out a new console or be content with Fallout 4 running in single digit frames.

(edit: even worse. I meant to say that I have been playing games on pc since Compac. Before HP acquired them. Thanks for the proprietary hardware and integrated graphics, jerks.)

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@ir0n: Cool, I agree with the business premise. I will explain why I bring up phones in an apples to apples comparison.

You see the lines for the new Iphone or Galaxy and may consider that the majority of people are riding the edge of new technology. Without any research on this I can, with some confidence, say this is not the case. As long as it can make calls and most apps work in the foreseeable future, people will be confident buying a phone from them.

Sony or Microsoft will not cut off their customer base for an upgrade. I imagine that is one of the reasons this is an upgrade and not a new console. I think they are copying the phone model. You can still watch the same videos on a newer phone with increased fidelity over the last generation. This is what I think Sony and Microsoft are doing. You need to go back a few phone generations before a lot of stuff stops working. This seems to be the model they are going after. This way there is not the shock of new console generation alienating their customers. It is EXACTLY the phone model. Phone plans are the subsidization you have talked about the consoles having. You can buy a phone straight up, but most don't. Same model.

If the PlayStation can serve both PS4 and 4.5 user base it is a straight growth model. Just like the phones that support the previous generation as well with a few app exceptions.

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@mike: No system war debate implied. I am wondering why upgrading consoles is a big deal when a minor upgrade to your phone/handheld/Ipad/PC is not even blinked at. And buy the way, just because you can't see a charge right off the bat does not mean you are not paying for it. $400 plus dollars is absolutely built into your contract. Nothing is free sir. A large part of gas price per gallon is state and federal tax. Just because it does not tell you at the pump does not mean you don't pay it. I don't upgrade my phone every generation so I had to ask my friends "what is the big difference?". Turns out not much. Better displays and a few apps I don't care about. Because I use my phone to make phone calls for the most part I don't upgrade. I also don't get outraged because I did not upgrade and can't use a new app. Games are apps. I don't see a difference at all. Except that you need to buy a new phone every year or so instead of every 4 years like they are suggesting with the PS4.5 or new Xbox one upgrade. Not upgrading a console, phone or PC does not make any one of those obsolete. I would suggest it is apples to apples. Not the game, but the sayings.

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@teddie: No. What I do not understand is why entitled people who can't afford to upgrade think they are entitled to the newest best option. What I don't understand is why people are so bad at math. Look at console attach rate and you will see money spent on games vs. money spent on systems. The old console generation was heavily supported until there was a clear switch to the current generation. Why would someone think there would be so many games they could not play because developers would abandon the old version that has such a large user base. I don't get illogical people and frankly, do not want to understand them.

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I am surprised at the negative reaction to this. It does not make sense. Either it is the vocal minority that spend less than 50 to 100 dollars a year on gaming or a huge lack of perspective.

For myself gaming is an expensive hobby. The $50 a year for online and a couple hundred at most on games. I could game way cheaper buying a last gen console or sticking to old games on steam sales. I choose to play current games understanding there is a price to go along with that.

There is the straw man of having a PC that can run current games is cheaper in the long run. What liar says they bought a $399 PC in 2013 that can run the Witcher 3 today? Nonsense. If you went cheap on the build you may need more than a new graphics card to run it respectably. If you brute force it with a powerful graphics card it will be a pricey upgrade anyway. If you do it on the front end or back end you will be spending over $1000 for a 6 plus year future proof PC. PS4 and the upgrade will be cheaper than that and be future proof for at least 6 years. Comparable.

It baffles me there is not more blow back on long console cycles. I was more irate when I bought Skyrim on the consoles and found it just about unplayable. A full priced game I wasted money on that I eventually upgraded my PC to play. I had to buy that game twice and was very skeptical about getting any new games on the console as dipping way below 30 fps was commonplace making many games play like crap. Why does spending $60 on a game you can get cheaper and run 100 time better on PC not upset you?

Why does this only happen on consoles? The Iphone is a great example but there are others in the gaming market. No real blow back when Nintendo made the 3ds XL or the 2ds. Where are the people saying "Now they will make games that take advantage of the larger screen/ don't take advantage of the 3d I bought this for! I'm throwin' this thing out and moving to mobile gamin'!" The reason is this argument is as silly as the argument about a mid cycle upgrade.

The press is weird on this too. They treated always online as no big deal. The company disappears/ the rights disappears/ the service disappears/ your game disappears. That is a big deal. If this thing comes out all the games you spent your hard earned money on can still be played until your console bricks. And if this turns out what the rumors suggest, when you buy the new upgraded console, you could play your game on that as well. I don't get it. Emotional response perhaps?

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So excited for this game. It is nice to see some new space games of late as I am having a blast with Rebel Galaxy. I think I missed my calling to be a space trucker by being born 50,000 or so years to soon. "There is no need to look in the hold, space officer. I ain't carryin' nuthin. Just a moseying on through."